States ‘lets charities do its work for free’
Wednesday 22nd June 2011, 2:30PM BST.
NEARLY one in 10 Guernsey children is growing up poor, with drug or alcohol problems or on the edge of criminal behaviour.
That is one of the key findings of a draft report looking at the island’s charitable sector and how resources could be used more effectively to tackle social problems.
The study by Bristol University researchers is the first to look in detail at these issues and concluded that Guernsey is a generous island but there is a need for greater co-ordination between the voluntary sector and the States.
The authors made a number of recommendations, including that there needed to be an umbrella body which could act as liaison between charities and the States.
The work was commissioned by the Guernsey Community Foundation and its chairman, Stuart Falla (pictured), said he was not that surprised by the report’s finding that between 8 and 10% are marginalised by society.
- Read the full story in the Guernsey Press. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
Well, well, well.
10% marginilisation is a shocking indictment on this society. Leaving the mopping up to charity speaks volumes.
I’m sure opening up more business in the most corrupt countries in the world will halt this decline, hmmm?
With all the material wealth here you’d expect something better for the island’s young.
But such is the way of the fallacy of secrecy jurisdictions. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
Report abuse
How is poor determined?
Compared to the poor of the sub continent or because selfish uneducated people have children who should not because they have no means to support the child because they struggle to support themselves.
Report abuse
Mr Press Editor.Please put some meat on this child poverty problem by explaining what the definition of child poverty is
I believe the old definition of having less than 60% of the local average income has been dropped in favour of a completely different measurement
Report abuse
It matters not on the definition of child poverty. For a filthy rich jurisdiction there are a lot of marginalised children and adults in Guernsey. They tend not to be in St Saviour, St Andrew or St Peter and so many people don’t have a clue. Bring on the 40% tax rate for the filthy rich.
Anywhere that earns all it’s wealth from financial services is inevitably going to be a selfish, narcissistic, partially corrupt society. The last ten years have proved that beyond any doubt.
Report abuse
Ultimately, Public Servant, you get most of your income from our financial services economy – as well as your gold plated pension. How do you feel about that I wonder? Fancy giving some of it back to ‘the marginalised’ (awful new PC word for the poor) yourself?
Report abuse
Public Servant – I fully agree.
Am born and bred in Guernsey to a working class family, was lucky to have a solid education, went to university and have a decent job. I thank my lucky stars.
But Guernsey does have an dark underbelly that people either ignore or have no idea exists.
People who, for whatever reason, live below the breadline, suffering from addiction, afflictions and a poor standard of living. Of course this all relative when it comes to the wider world, but in an insulated island like Guernsey, these problems surely ought to be a lot easier to deal with.
Would more tax money help? I don’t know. Whilst I think highly of the local civil service, I’m not sure if that sentiment extends to several selfish, narcissistic and partially corrupt members of the States of Guernsey.
Report abuse
How does it compare to other areas? I haven’t read the complete article so does the report provide a comparison to the UK?
Report abuse
Public Servant
I do hope that your 4.38pm post was not written on a tax payer funded computer while you contemplate your navel in the luxury of your cosseted centrally heated / air conditioned office whilst whiling away your day waiting for your diamond encrusted pension at the age of sixty
Don’t mean nothin’ by it … just asking
Report abuse
@Public Servant
What a peculiar post. And, may I ask what grounds you have for suggesting that child poverty is generally restricted to our other parishes?
Report abuse
Definition of poor is rather a strange request,
You will never get the real answer unless you have been poor,
Here we talk nor of wealth (money) but genuine poor,
The desperation of the situation is terrible,
Yet those who know poverty are the last to complain.
They learnt as time passes by\- how to fasten yet another point on the belt in his trousers,
You’ll never know what being poor is by reading a book or a news paper.
Report abuse
My definition of “poor” does not extend to people with items such as mobile phones, cigarettes, alcohol, private means of transport, computers and designer clothes.
The only thing poor about these so-called marginalised people is their upbringing, attitude and work ethic – caused by bad parenting, bad schooling and a bad benefits system.
Report abuse
Islander
Yes yes … all very flowery and poetic as usual and I would suspect that you went through your (un)fair share of child poverty before ,during and after WW2,but when a local millionaire steps up to the plate and endorses a UK group finding that 10% of Guernsey children are living in poverty I for one would like to know a little bit more about the subject
In some countries poor is defined as having to live on $1 a day,having to search municipal dumps for food or tin cans/plastic bottles to sell
I want to know if child poverty in Guernsey is still defined as not owning a winter overcoat,not having a least two pairs of strong waterproof shoes,not having access to schooling or shelter and medical facilities,or if perhaps Guernsey child poverty means not having a TV and an X-Box in their bedroom,not being able to afford horse riding lessons or a stress break in Florida once a year
Report abuse
I see people are still banging on about ‘gold-plated’ pensions. The Hutton report clearly stated that this was a misrepresentation of the public pension provision. The majority of public servants will be on very little, in comparison to the lifetime of work they have given in order to maintain a functioning social infrastructure.
But that’s for another thread.
Andrew Ogier is correct.
Guernsey has more than enough resources to be able to mitigate the circumstances, break the cycles, that lead to spiraling disenfranchisement amongst this ten percent.
It needs bold political action to set in motion initiatives that recapture these 6,000 odd individuals that feel desperate enough not to engage with society, other than for some to feel a self-entitlement to ‘aid’.
There is far too much complacency amongst most of us who are able, aspirational and ambitious. As often repeated, the measure of strength of our society should measured on how we treat its weakest members.
Otherwise, as inequalities grow, social problems are exacerbated, and an ever-increasing circle of exclusion and ignorance will turn Guernsey into somewhere that is only desirable to live in if you are extremely privileged and wealthy. We will have socially devolved.
Report abuse
Perhaps social services should be getting more involved if children are being brought up in homes where parents don’t take proper care of them. Yet they have the money, time and inclination to drink, smoke and take drugs. In my opinion the problem is more one of priorities than purely one of money. As with the thread on the Genats skips, as a society we now have a two tier approach. The ‘underclass’ is tolerated and patronized and it seems the rest of the community has come to expect lower standards of behaviour from them in every way. Money is only part of the picture, lack of pride is a much bigger factor. In 2011 and with our benefits system there is simply no excuse for children to be neglected by any parent in Guernsey.
Report abuse
Well Ray!
I can assure you I talk from experience, that for starters,
You of course in your high and mighty way bring up all things that are so untrue that it baffles the mind to think how such as you try to understand; if you ever try.
Shoes eh’ Many have asked “What’s that?” laugh go on.
Doctor if sick. go to Lukis house and get some virol, You must go in person, which meant if bed-ridden you didn’t get.
If it meant hospital, then Town Hospital, mustn’t mix with those better off,
I could say hundreds of things and situations.
Christmas; If it hadn’t been for Rotary. or such charities there would have been no Christmas.
You can say whatever you wish Ray; you could never understand the humiliation of being poor-
Subjected to ridicule by better off people.
And it’s your type that complain of Yobbos as you call them, I don’t agree with what they do–but I can understand. which it seems is beyond your horizon.
Poetic you started off with. well if it was,it was Poetic Justice I referred to.
Report abuse
Yes Ray and St Marcouf, the one in 10 figure put out by this bunch of ‘Guardianistas’ from Bristol Uni simply does not stand up to common sense scrutiny. In fact I’ve probably been included in the 6,000 total myself because my annual income is under 20k, even though because of my frugal, careful lifestyle I can get along quite comfortably on that.
Maybe a thousand, perhaps 2,000 islanders at a push, are truly poor. As you say, St Marcouf, how can anyone who enjoys the use of “mobile phones, cigarettes, alcohol, private means of transport, computers and designer clothes” possibly be poor or materially ‘marginalised’. It just doesn’t stand up and Stuart Falla and his lot just do not live in the real world. Beanjar is much nearer the mark when s/he says that lack of pride (I’d say lack of respect and poor upbringing) is a much bigger factor.
Report abuse
Martino
I love the ‘expression’ “common sense scrutiny”!
It’s a bit like “Back to basics”.
What you mean is that anyone that you consider inferior is contemptible, including those captured in the report; the infirm, the mentally ill, the physically disabled, the uneducated, the abused, the unfortunate, the elderly, and yes, the sociopathic minority that could care, but don’t because of a raft of social issues far too complicated to be summed up as a label.
How do you think a “poor upbringing” translates to the next generation? Who do you think has to step in and paper over the cracks for a while until something else happens? Lack of pride maybe, for some, but what’s the solution? Continue as you wish, pushing people further away, castigating them, institutionalising folk into systems they do not understand to achieve goals no one understands?
The charitable sector knows more about the impact caused by relative poverty, be it financial or social, but it cannot operate efficiently without state interference. It is the duty of all society to alleviate the problems of the weakest. There is no real need in a well educated (elite to middle class) society to have to ignore, what is, an endemic blight on Guernsey’s purported ‘success’.
Report abuse
Islander
Please check on the date.You’ll find that it is June 2011
The report under this topic heading is dated June 2011
The Bristol researchers were reporting on events pertaining in 2011
Whilst it must be nice (or not probably) to reminisce incessantly about your childhood days try to grasp that we are now in June 2011
Arnald
The short version of the story at the head of this thread relates to CHILDREN in poverty so I fail to see where the figure of 6,000 fits in with that
Islander
Don’t forget now … it’s J-U-N-E 2-0-1-1
Put a little yellow sticker near your keyboard
Report abuse
It is not just about how much money a family earns/receives and the effect that has on young people.
For a start the headline is not true in many cases and the whole meaning to charitable work has an explanation in its self.
But it very interesting to read how some of the people who have posted here are very naive which I personally think that is a good thing as they will never have to experience/work with troubled young people.
And then some that have twisted it around so they just want to criticise a civil servant or anyone that was lucky to enough to have a great life!
Classic example of watching a TV programme on poverty/neglect/violence and feeling sorry for someone else for 30 minutes then popping down the local takeaway and booking your second holiday of the year on the net!
Get real
Report abuse
Actually Arnald, I’m quite sympathetic to some of what you say. Yes, it is right for the State(s) to step in to alleviate the problems of the weakest in society but it’s the alleged scale of the problem I take issue with. How on earth did they arrive at that figure of one in 10? As you have said with regard to your other pet issue, go on, show it. Prove it!
And what about the solution, whether it is 600 or 6,000? Tax the rich, throw money at the problem? I’m certainly not in favour of ignoring it and I’m all for a revamp of our education system but this will not address the problem we now have of a significant number of truly contemptible people on this island who show no respect for others or their environment; who think the world owes them a living; and who are addicted to booze, fags and drugs and getting one another pregnant while in their teens.
This lot may be marginalised but they are not weak because they know how to work the system. It’s the real poor, the few per cent, I want to help. Not the other seven or eight per cent. Not this sizeable bunch of ungrateful chavs who are a blight on society and whose emergence, both here and in the UK has coincided strangely enough with the rise of the liberal elite who are so fond of using words like ‘marginalisation’ and phrases like ‘spiraling disenfranchisement’. I’d simply love to stop them breeding, so there, open goal, you can really throw your hands up in horror now.
Report abuse
Ray
I’ll do that put a little yellow sticker by my Keyboard; for two reasons.
One to remind me of your high falutin ways which in vain you try to belittle me, which is the way you people work,
Grind them down is your motto.
The other reason I’ll have that sticker is in memory of 1066.
You weren’t all so brave that day were you?
Like most bombastic types you’d squeal if you lost anything of Value.
But we Guernsey people are patient, we’ll see you down lower than snakes belly one day.
I won’t be around, but I know people will cheer.
Report abuse
Martino @ 16:43 yesterday – that is, without doubt, your finest post (IMHO).
And hear hear!
Report abuse
Oh yes that dastardly “liberal elite”. Like Rupert Murdoch.
I think you’ll find Martino, that the “emergence” of a disrespectful attitude coincides more with the rise of individualist materialism and slavishly believing in false aspirations.
If bankers can take the mickey, why can’t anyone?
Oh, and replace “chav” with “Jew” and see where we get.
Antisocial behaviour increases in societies where the wealth gap grows fastest. I haven’t advocated throwing money at the problem per se, but it’s clear that there are not enough resources for any strategy, let alone a basic one. Relying on charity to fill the holes is a poor, retrograde step. Next some bright spark will open a workhouse and perhaps bring back the birch?
Free, or heavily subsidised, creches would be a good start; not only would it enable young mothers to get some work or perhaps study in a learning environment, but it would provide jobs for young mothers. A multiplier.
Report abuse
I suppose the point of the article (that I get from this small online version) is that charities and the states need to share data and reports so that they can be more efficient in their combined aim to reduce poverty and help the needy. Pretty straight forward really. In this age, sharing data means a centralised information system. I assume this basically means giving some charities access to a small amount of data on a shared network and providing reports which can be easily generated from that data. Security levels would need to be set for those charities but its no biggy for someone with minimal IT skills to set up with the right software.
On another note, I believe the best way to tackle child poverty and try to minimise the development of psychological problems generated through poverty is to put efforts into early education. If the states wanted to throw money somewhere this is where it would have the most impact. Subsidise pre-schools overall and/or give two free days to the needy (or any other formula one can think of). Get children into a stimulating environment with other children and carers who are good role-models. Preschools help tremendously with language development and early reading skills and can tackle problems at the oust so that these do not become a problem when kids start primary school – this would also save states money later on as these children would not need to go into remedial programs (a definite pride-killer). So many kids enter school on this island who dont even know their abc’s or 1,2,3s – we can to prevent this. Funding preschools would also free up time for the primary care giver to find work or start training themselves. As the old saying goes – If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you give him a fishing rod, you feed him for a lifetime.
Report abuse
“Poverty is pronounced deprivation in well-being, and comprises many dimensions. It includes low incomes and the inability to acquire the basic goods and services necessary for survival with dignity. Poverty also encompasses low levels of health and education, poor access to clean water and sanitation, inadequate physical security, lack of voice, and insufficient capacity and opportunity to better one’s life.”
—World Bank[6]
Does this describe Guernsey?
There is plenty of “secondary” poverty on this Island though.
“Secondary poverty is a description of poverty created by Seebohm Rowntree after his investigations into poverty in York. Secondary poverty was the term he coined for those living below his poverty line whose income was sufficient for them to live above the line, but was spent on things other than the necessities of life.”
This is the problem that MUST be addressed.
Report abuse
Will!
Quite a lot of your note is quite true, however quiet a lot isn’t there.
Schools, teaching: Believe me it is a class system, those who show potential (To help the rich later) are given preferential treatment, thee others just ordinary schooling, and only because it’s the law.
The ruling overhead isn’t of our people, but by stealth has taken over;
English Became the language, out language was stopped in the teaching.
If you read through the history of our Island, not the official version as decreed by the occupiers since the 1300s, but of our struggles, of the demands by the bully boys,
They hate the French(smile at them with hate) but we are not French. we are From Normandie.
Many who write here try to belittle anyone who speaks out against their nation, yet accuse others of duplicity.
That Special thing of the USA,, ha ha Only because it suits them. Try doing anything they don’t like and you’ll see the lamb turn into a raging wolf.
Oh yes; people are docile, soft words have turned them into zombies,
Most are satisfied to be second class to the invaders, It takes GUTS to revolt against the one side affairs forced onto our Island.
When will Guernsey People rise up and say enough is enough.
Report abuse
PW Fudge
But which definition was the Bristol group working with
Without that knowledge the statement that ’1 in 10 children in Guernsey is growing up poor’ is quite meaningless
Report abuse
I am reading much claptrap here.
Bad and disrespectful attitudes and antisocial behaviour has nothing to do with wealth and materialism or the gap between rich and poor. It has everything to do with western society becoming softer, over tolerant and too preoccupied with human rights and political correctness, and children being spoilt, over-indulged,and undisciplined by their parents and schools.
Society needs to help itself before it can resolve the problem by returning to good old-fashioned Victorian values.
Report abuse
Ray
Not poor, but marginalised. Addiction, crime, lack of education, mental illness and depravation (amongst more).
It is also true to note that depravation can be the root of the other symptoms.
So it could be correlated that nearly ten percent are suffering from poverty related social dysfunction. Without seeing the full report it’s pointless to speculate on the specifics. Either way, Guernsey, the staunchly charitable, Christian and wealthy Guernsey, is creating an underbelly of disenfranchised, unhappy and self-degrading locals. Why?
Report abuse
Islander
Hello again.Would you mind setting up a second sticker so that when you refer to me as ‘your lot’ etc you can remind yourself that I don’t belong to any of your five most hated groupings (The English,the Hun,the rich,the Finance industry and States deputies)
I’m quite aware that it isn’t right to try to belittle anyone who is in his eighties so here’s a joke as a peace offering …
A retired English banker turned States Deputy opened the door of his Mercedes into the path of an oncoming bus causing his drivers door to be ripped clean off
When the Police arrived they found him shouting at passers by .. Aaaaargh Look what they’ve done to my lovely Mercedes
Never mind about that said the officer, Don’t you realise that your left arm has been ripped off?
Aaaaargh screamed the Deputy Where’s my Rolex watch ??!!
Report abuse
Ray it matters not what the Bristol group was working with. In regard to my previous post; those are the clearly defined meanings of “Poverty” and “secondary poverty”.
There is vitually 0% “Poverty” per se on this island. However whether thru simple bad parenting or terrible addiction or a combination of both, there is definitely a case to argue that there is a considerably large percentage of secondary poverty. Whether that is what is getting up to the 10% margin is another matter.
Report abuse
Thanks for that Gilthead.
@ Arnald, I wasn’t thinking of Rupert Murdoch when I mentioned the liberal elite. I was thinking of you! I was also thinking about this bunch from Bristol Uni who carried out this spurious survey. I was thinking about the sort of people who are intent on removing words like “poor” from the dictionary and replacing them with terms like “poverty related social dysfunction”. Sound familiar?
No, we’re not talking about incredibly wealthy media moguls here but the people who are responsible for the dominant social philosophy of our times. St Marcouf actually sums up the legacy of the liberal elite when he writes about “western society becoming softer, over tolerant and too preoccupied with human rights and political correctness, and children being spoilt, over-indulged,and undisciplined by their parents and schools.”
I would not go quite as far as St Marcouf in calling for a return to “good old fashioned Victorian values” because I am pretty liberal myself in a few ways. However, on balance, I think I would prefer that to what we have now.
Report abuse
Ray!
You must be getting on a bit as well, that so-called joke was told by Noah to his captain.
However back to your little list.
Each one you mentioned has special meaning to me, so that is my business.
I know and Knew that you didn’t belong to that group.
But even worse you belong to a group that stabs your Island in the back. the only way you can manage.
You say things hoping to fall into grace- whereas I as I’ve always been from the shoulder.
It has given me lots of trouble-but more important to me. It makes me feel an Islander. Because I believe in our Island, not as a fragment of a twisted regime-two faced in their dealings, as they are with us.
Did you ever feel like that?
Report abuse
Ray that was a very good post on 24th June at 3.49pm and describes how Guernsey has become over the years.
Over the years I have done much charity work for local charities on the island and one half day a week currently I still volunteer my time. I am a very busy person looking after 2 grandchildren and working part time. I have many retired friends who are very fit and healthy who could spare an odd hour here or there, when you ask them if they could help out, no is the answer they do not want to commit.
Is it just me, but I find this a very selfish attitude, I have had, and am having a very comfortable life for which I am very grateful,but there are so many people worse off than me,granted some of this is self inflicted, but there is genuine poverty in this island believe me and one day I might be in that situation, who knows what life chucks at us, but I hope there will be someone out there to help me, attitudes need to change, and the way Guernsey has become with that “I’m alright Jack attitude”, I doubt if it will.
Report abuse
Wherever you have humans, you have human nature, and basic human nature is to outcompete one another, sure we out-evolved our main competition through teamwork, innovation and everyone having a role, but the basic instinct is still in us regardless of the contribution made by others.
However, now, there is this new subclass of human who dont even try to compete, they dont even want to contribute, they happily leech of the spoils of the competitors, the system lets them do this by ironically creating more humans. And its these new humans who will inevitably be classified by whatever great buzzword or classification system you like.
Remove the holes in the system, remove the problem.
Report abuse
The Christmas Tree in the middle of the roundabout makes me laugh. As Andrew Ogier said above there is an under belly of ‘Guernsey’ not many people experience.
Children don’t just need the latest toy at Christmas. They need sustenance; financial, emotional and physical (in the form of food) all year.
Don’t worry, just keep your head down while driving your Porsche Cayenne around the Island and you won’t notice anything.
Report abuse
The States failed to cap population, failed to provide affordable housing, failed to protect low income earners, taxed the low paid till they squeaked and made welfare pay better than work. 2200 households on supplementary with a £405 benefit cap, eye watering! Am I surprised?
Reap the Whirlwind.
Report abuse
This gets back to the whole “subsidies cause subsistence” argument. Essentially by providing a situation where people are forced into subsidised housing because the house prices on the open market are too high, resulting in a total mess where people are then unable to escape the resulting benefits trap and are therefore forced to exist on the minimum wage because if they earn more they end up paying exponentially higher rents/etc.
So much for encouraging self improvement.
The solution IMHO is to encourage innovation by providing tax breaks and seed funding for companies wishing to set up in the Channel Islands whose main business is designing and manufacturing new products.
This should help with the unemployment problem, as would paying companies to train local people for these positions where appropriate.
Report abuse
1 in 10 poor, h’mmmm.
I agree with some others that we need to see the definition of poor that was used.
In guernsey you don’t see many malnorished people walking about.
Report abuse
Jason.
think …just think and remember these few lines from an old song,
“My eyes are dim I cannot see
I have not brought my specs with me—”
Report abuse
I think the point is being missed, during 2010 £17 million went on supplementary and a further £10 million on rent, not to eradicate poverty but simply to maintain present levels. A monumental policy failure at the same time as continuing with the same policies that put us in this mess. Quite simply the situation is unsustainable, the media ought to be howling and those responsible falling on their swords, but don’t hold your breath.
Report abuse
St Marcouf.
Claptrap you say; I agree, and it comes from you,
The very Idea of calling it disrespectful.. to whom. to the occupiers of our Island I think, for it is they who are disrespectful.
Return to >Victorian ways; are you sure you are no out licence,
Victoria spoils Candie Gardens with her statue, get rid of it.
‘
‘And Albert as well from the pier,
Victoria was the one who gave half of Denmark to her German family, Justice eh!
you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Perhaps they should sail out again from Bristol..
After all down south the cotton is growin*
The people you point out as being the ones to follow must first learn to be human, and treat all Persons as human beings not trash as you seem to imply.
Report abuse
Islander………. i wonder who you really are as you seem intent on winding everyone up, are you as old as you make out??… or are yo a wind up merchant
Report abuse
Well Mark
If I wind people up as you seem to think, then it shows there must be reason for it,
But unlike many, I don’t trust nor believe in present day governing.
It would appear you are satisfied, therefor in like motive stir it up.
If many had the nerve to say as I do, perhaps a better deal might be had for the true Guernsey people.
Of course people ofttimes open their mouth but words fail to come out.
Guernsey was a lovely place before the war, but having been deceived by those North of us they try now to influence us.
I’ll not have it and not frightened to say so,
the Yoke of a land that stole from others isn’t my Idea of a satisfactory way of life.
Go back Mark and bury your head in the sand, that way you’ll not hear, nor understand the cries of the oppressed.
Report abuse
Islander – forget about the label “Victorian” ways if you want, what I meant was that children should, within reason, be: seen and not heard…sent to bed early…spanked and otherwise meaningfully punished for bad behaviour…made to entertain themselves rather than having entertainment bought or made for them…taken on 10 mile hikes to wear them out and make them experience doing things which they don’t necessarily want to do…made to wait for or earn things instead of being given instant gratification…instilled with a healthy fear of and respect for their parents and authority alike…given responsibility and made to fend for themselves from a young age (so many parents carry on doing things for their children well into their teens and 20s when they should have been doing these things for themselves years ago) etc etc…
Anyway, you are quick to dismiss Queen Victoria but she is descended from Rollo and William the Conqueror, without whom Guernsey as we know or knew it would never have existed. Also, the Normans, being scandinavian in origin, are Germanic in descent just like the Anglo Saxons or English.
Report abuse
St Marcouf.
So you mean that the Anglo Saxons had every right to take over Britain,
To kill and maim those who opposed them, like the Scots.
‘You also appently condone the way they did to the world
And Joyously called it the EMPIRE.
All on the backs of the innocent.
I noticed also that the Anglo Saxons never made a move until the Roman Empire collapsed. then they struck an already beleaguered nation of BRITS.
No I will never have any kind words for those in charge or wearing of false crowns.
If all those places you mention were of German Descent, doesn’t mean you have or had the right to do as you want.
They have throughout history always attacked the weak. by fair means or foul.
Making a great Nation drug addicts to get your own way. no no no.
Answer for your sins.! one day you will, And Engeland as it was at first clled will disolve like sugar in warm water.
Report abuse
Oh Eric
I do love your anti-germanic rants.
But you’ve been here before eh??
You were very close to airing your true views in that last post of yours, you know, the ones that nearly got you banned from here!
Report abuse
What a vicious kind of person you are St Marcouf.
Children should be seen and NOT Hurt as opposed to your way of thinking.
Children can be wicked, however parents can help them, one of the troubles is the fact the Parents at times “Haven’t Time to talk to Children”
The Idea of brutal punishment is just not on.
I find your letter so despicable that words fail me.
You should be ashamed to even think like that.
Report abuse
We cannot really comment on these issues until the final report on this is brought out. We are told that the report is in draft only at this stage. When will it be finished and will it be made publicly available?
We need to know clearly what defintion is being applied for “relative poverty”. This brief article therefore raises more questions than it answers. That said, these issues are of great importance and are due much greater public scrutiny and consideration in the run up to the election next year.
The figure of 1 in 10 children growing up in poverty in a supposedly prosperous island like Guernsey is a deep concern and a scar on the face of the modern island.
The States has been extremely quiet about social policy and the so-called Corporate Anti-Poverty strategy for quite a while. Indeed, it seemed to fall silent on this issue at the same time as our government was lowering corporate taxation to 0%.
I believe that the States needs to have a dedicated social exclusion unit within the Policy Council to bring together the work of all government departments on these issues and to provide a direct and practical link to the relevant voluntary sector groups. There also has to be a serious debate about whether it is appropriate or necessary for the State(s) to take on more of the work of the charitable or so-called third sector sector in helping in these social policy areas. If so, how big a State(s) do we want and how can it be paid for? These are issues of principle that need to be addressed.
One other consideration may be not so much the amount of relative poverty, however that is defined, because somebody will always be “reltively” poorer than everybody else; the key issue locally might be the degree of inequality between the top and the bottom; and also between the top and the middle income groups. I wonder whether Bristol University will be considering the Gini- Coeffcient for Guernsey? There is now plenty of evidence available to suggest that societies which have growing inequality will have greater social problems, including crime, more family break-ups, more mental ill health etc. I wonder if thought is being given to such issues by the University or by our local government? It seems to me that the rich are only getting richer in Guernsey; the middle are largely standing still (or worse) and the bottom of the pile is not going anywhere either.
There are serious issues here that should get local politicans and others thinking deeply about the kind of society we have been creating in the last few decades.
Report abuse
Is it possible to arrange a meeting between Eric and St Marcouf, at which they could discuss medieval history?
It would be fascinating, and save a lot of time for those of us on here who are not interested in reading the same old stuff time, and time, and time again………
Report abuse
Islander – I am not talking about brutal punishment or ignoring children but you do have to be strict to be kind as the alternative is the antisocial and spoilt behaviour that we have now.
Also, I am no historian but I am not sure you are either – otherwise you would know that the Normans were a ruthless lot of people who invaded England and beyond by means of pillaging, looting, vandalising, raping and murdering to name just a few of the things they got up to.
Report abuse
I know I know how wicked they were,
Just fancy how that nice man called William Wallace,leader of A Scottish Clan, then because he told the invaders off, and didn’t get a reply decided to teach them a lesson.
So he killed himself, then quartered himself, and sent those four parts to location of far off places.
‘How wicked of him—
Oh yes no doubt about it. England was a load of Angels- only took over other countries to educate them.
My word we could all learn from that angelic country.
Naughty naughty Normans.
Tell you what St Marcouf.
get hold of Snorre Sturlason’s Heimskringla.
he was an Icelandic Historian.
Oh perhaps the very thought of Iceland , cod etc might hurt the palate.
Report abuse
Its quite amazing the way threads about GEP news story’s can deviate away from the actual story.
I know it is annoying to some people but I find the weird and wonderful view that Islander has of history is quite amusing. And I wouldn’t like to spoil it by telling him to go away and study history so in future he’d know what he’s talking about.
Anyway sorry to those who want to discuss what is a very serious subject, so I’ll shut up.
Report abuse
Well Pete,
You could be right!
However; do you dispute the things I have mentioned?
I know you were saying in a polite way ‘Belt up’
I will, if you can say those items I have mentioned are false.
Report abuse
Actualy Islander I was not telling you to belt up, though I’m sure those who wish to discuss the actual topic of this thread would certainly wish you would.
As for saying the things you have written are false goes I’d rather say that your view of history certainly dosen’t quite fit into what I understand to be the facts, hence the going away to study history bit.
Report abuse