Education will not budge on GCSE result comparisons
Wednesday 31st August 2011, 2:30PM BST.
PARENTS, teachers and members of the public yesterday added to the pressure on Education to release GCSE data that would allow a more accurate comparison with UK results.
But minister Deputy Carol Steere, pictured, refused to discuss the issue, saying the board would consider the 2011 results later this year and then decide if it wished to publish any different statistics in 2012.
The department provides an overall figure based on how many pupils achieved grades A* to C in five GCSEs but, unlike the UK, it does not include maths and English within the performance benchmark.
The majority of people approached by the Guernsey Press in Town yesterday questioned why Education did not release the comparable GCSE data.
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How can you decide if Education is up to scratch if you are not given the data to do so? Or decide how each school is performing?
I think they are forgetting who they are supposed to be serving: the public. Those who fund the schools and have the power to appoint politicians and have done so to act on our behalf.
How full of it are you when you dismiss the enquiries of the people your are supposed to be serving?
I want all the sensible data and statistics made public. I want to know how they were arrived at and I don’t want them skewered to give better results as good decisions cannot be made on doctored information.
I also want to know what allows the States on this occasion and on others withhold knowledge that is in the public interest. There may be valid reasons in some cases but to be given no reason at all and expected to tolerate it is ridiculous. It has to change.
We are supposed to live in a time of accountability and transparency and if anything our own government should be leading the way in these principles.
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Where does this argument stand before data protection laws?
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Be careful Education… when the data is revealed – and it will be- IF it is found that Guernsey results are indeed not as good as the UK (as Education has been saying the opposite and letting the public assume a direct comparison for many many years) it may be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to mislead and deceive the public. Has Education been deliberately falsifying data and removing the results of certain subjects from the statistics in order to show themselves in a good light? Have they been deliberately skewing and doctoring the results through this mechanism, as Dani says above, for its own purposes and ends? If not then release the data, Education, so we can all see that you were telling the truth all along. Be accountable. Be transparent. Call the meeting now – why wait? Oh and one more thing… release the data for the last five to ten years as only then will we be able to directly assess both the results and indeed the conduct of your department.
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‘and then decide if it wished to publish any different statistics in 2012 (after the election)’
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There is only one reason that this information would not be shared, because there is something to hide! The question is, what is it?
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Rachel asks some searching questions.
Time for the arrogant officers and political members of Education to state the facts.
If not,why not?
Time for changes at political and senior officer (civil servant) levels
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This one please!
In my opinion Deputy Steere is rapidly losing credibility as Education Minister.
First she railroads through the ill-thought out plan to change school uniforms, despite no concrete evidence to suggest they improve standards – and at a time when many islanders are struggling financially.
Next we had her dismissive response to Deputy Jane Stephens regarding the Catholic schools, I quote: “There is no justification for moving non-Catholics into the Catholic primary schools when we have surplus places in all our schools.”
Just because there isn’t justification in Deputy Steere’s opinion, it doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. The recent issue with Mr John Surcombe illustrated that you don’t have to be a Catholic (or even religious) to want to send your children to a faith school.
Now she won’t even discuss a perfectly legitimate request for statistics regarding the examination results of island schools.
Deputy Steere comes across as arrogant and out of touch with anyone who doesn’t agree with her rather narrow point of view. She also appears to think she is not accountable. Come next year she will realise she most certainly is.
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Failure to compare data on a like for like basis is as good as worthless.
Education’s reluctance to do so tends to suggest that if they themselves have achieved the benchmark number of 5 GCSE passes, non of these include passes in common sense and logic.
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Averaging out the results across the colleges, Grammar, Beaucamps, St sampsons and La Mare, the results are higher than the UK average.
But averages hide the true inequalities between the results. Obviously the colleges and Grammar are going to be close to 100% 5 A*-C including English and Maths – But I’ve heard that one of the secondary schools results was as low as 17% of students achieving the benchmark.
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Deputy Carol Steere is in no position – a self imposed one or otherwise – to refuse to discuss the issue. Like all deputies, she has been elected to serve the community and discuss openly and honestly and in public the issues raised in connection with this and any other matter.
She, like other deputies, is not elected for the purpose of enjoying the benefits of being in office. Knowledge is power and I am afraid that when public servants are pressured by the public like this they feel their power being compromised and become overly defensive in a matter that is quite frankly in the public interest.
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If this data was favourable, education would be shouting about how well we (education) have done!! So holding back the information does sound rather fishy (which is another case of secrecy) Paul above has it right in that who do these people thing they are ? They certainly do appear to be arrogant , aloof and far higher up the important chain than us mere tax paying, voting public.
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The naivety of believing that withholding the information will succeed is truly staggering. Deputy Steere and the Director of Education must go immediately. There can be no place for such skullduggery when the education of our island’s children is at stake.
Its one thing for standards to have slipped to the extent that Education are ashamed to admit it and then address it. But its another thing altogether for them to try to cover it up. How on earth can that do anything other than aid Deputy Steere’s chances of getting re-elected next April? Is that really acting in the best interests of the people that Deputy Steere is supposed to be serving?
Taxi for Deputy Steere urgently please and also a long overdue taxi for the chief officer – yet another cover-up on his watch. Unaccountable civil servants who keep cocking up need to be weeded out far more quickly than currently happens. The leadership of Education needs to be completely restructured.
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My inside information suggests that these are the percentages for the three secondary schools: 35%, 20% and 17% of children getting 5 A*-C grades inc English and Maths…
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The truth I expect, is they have lost them, along with creditability, common sense and in this case the marbles as well.
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This is not a black and white issue. Guernsey cannot directly compare results with the UK which doesn’t have a selective system. The only fair “national” comparison is to produce benchmark consolidated results for States secondary schools (Grammar and High Schools) and compare them with the overall UK figures. I can see the benefit of comparing the High Schools as a purely Guernsey issue to establish how the head teachers and their teams perform and deal with it accordingly.
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i think that education should publish the figures and when they are revealed surely it will show the public, ALL of the public, where education’s spending priorities should be. yes I know they are building new schools now but does this not show that historically the secondry schools have been the poor relations. You reap what you sow.
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Mr Bean
If that is accurate then this is a massive issue. The conspiracy to try to cover it up is a disgrace, but the fact that it is the case at all is an even bigger scandal. What on earth has been going on with the running of those schools?
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Paul Le Page: You are entirely correct and I agree with every word you have written. Politicians ARE accountable to their public irrespective of their own misguided and out-of-touch beliefs. I am sure the public will remember Carol Steere’s arrogance come election time.
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GM -
It’s has a lot to do with the running of the schools AND the Education Dept, as well as being clouded by the issue of housing licences with a high turnover of staff. The way the Education Dept (and consequently the schools) is run is truly shocking.
It must also have to do with the ‘Guernsey’ mentality – I hear so often, my Dad left school without any GCSEs and he’s done alright – we’ve been to Florida 4 times etc.etc.
Many Guernsey kids lack motivation, drive and ambition. A sweeping statement I know, but general malaise and a laissez-faire attitude pervades amongst not just our secondary school children but Grammar school children as well.
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oh i wish we could have island wide voting.
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Common sense and guernsey it just isnt going to happen,you all know,just takes some more time to admit it.
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Mr Bean – If your precentages are right then parents MUST be informed about this. My daughter has just finished year 10 and I am very disappointed in her first year results, she has to take reponsibility for the amount of work she puts, or doesn’t put in, despite my constant nagging – but when she reports every day that she has learnt nothing as the whole class just talks all the way through the lesson, or the teacher ignores them if they try to ask a question because they don’t understand what they’re doing, then from a parents point of view what more can we do ? If less inportance was put on how they should look in their uniforms and more on discipline, perhaps the results would be a lot better.
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swv not sure where you are going on your grammar school comments.
surely a more meaningful comparison would be to compare our three high school results with the average for comprehensives in the u.k
Don’t forget though that you would need to strip out the top 30% of marks at the comprehensives because they also contain the pupils who would have passed the 11+ here.
Mr Bean if you are so confident of your figures why don’t you name the schools and their marks?
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Kevin –
I am sure that the Press has already got hold of these figures and which school is school. No doubt they are waiting for their source to be corroborated – that is why they are being persistent with chasing Education for the figures. I won’t name the schools yet – I’m a bit unsure of the 17% one and wouldn’t want scaremonger the parents of children at that school.
Carol Steere and the Education are coming out with utter rubbish that they need to meet as a Board on Tuesday before publishing the results – the Education Officers have the information already, all they need to do is get their Communications Manager (a former journalist!) to write the press release – maybe she’s on holiday?!
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Well i have been saying for years that the education is not that good over here. For two years i have been in discussions with my son’s school regarding his reading and what do they do, nothing. The whole system needs a shake up New school uniforms will not make the children learn any better. Therre is something seriously wrong with the education in Guernsey and it needs to be addressed before more children are failed.
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Mr bean
i think you’ve done a pretty good job at scaremongering the parents of all three high schools
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Kevin
On the other hand, Mr Bean appears to be “in the know” and is telling us what Deputy Steer refuses to tell us?
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Kevin – I’m only adding this, because I have ‘inside’ info about how dire things are. I want people and especially parents to know.
I would urge parents to ask their schools for their last GCSE results. Particularly, DEMAND to know the % getting 5 A*-C including English and Maths.
Things need to change, but only parent power is going to do that.
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bubble,
please enlighten us all and say exactly what is seriously wrong with our education in Guernsey. I’m fed up of posters on this thread making “wishy washy” statement if you think something is wrong tell us what it is!
by the way i would have thought that reading is something you could sort out at home.
I repeat lets compare what the results are with comprehensives in England( minus their top 30% of achievers as those pupils would be in our schools if there was no 11+). I’m making no comment here about the rights and wrongs of the 11+ but if you want a true comparison you compare like with like.
frankly I’m not a teacher or a politician so i can say that I think most, not all, of the problem is down to parents. Yes that’s right , parents. How much time is spent in front of the t.v or on computer games or the internet?
I know of children who cannot be disciplined at school unless it is “run past” the parents first. there are a lot of parents on this website who are in denial because a lot of responsibility rests with them. Just look at the uniform issue you are all talking about it’s a complete “red herring” education is a partnership between parents, schools and teachers. Our high school teachers are on a hiding to nothing but parents aren’t are the parents keeping thier side of the bargain?
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Another guernsey shambles
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Kevin
.. Do not forget that some areas in the UK still have grammar schools: Kent is one example. Comparison with schools there (Kent)would thus be reasonable, no?
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having done the math I have worked out the following:
If you take the ‘top’ 25% of pupils taking their GCSEs out of the equation (those who ‘passed the 11+) you are left with approximately 75% of students who mostly populate the high schools, this group include the ‘next’ 25% of students who would make up the 50% who achieve the UK benchmark in UK highschools. Translated into the context of the highschool population, this 25% are in fact 1 third of the pupils in the high schools. Therefore I deduce that if the highschools are not enabling a third of their pupils to achieve the UK standard ie 33.3% of them, they are under-performing in relation to the UK. This figure is adjusted to account for our selective system. Taking the 17% figure cited above demonstrates a serious problem and in my mind accounts for why parents need to lobby more. For too long we have been subjected to paternalistic attitudes from the states of deliberation. we have a right to know the true facts.
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What role do you posters think the parents play in all of this?
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I wouldnt be trying to glory up the results by including the grammer and college. These are not inclusive to all, only the passing and paying! Each school is how you judge them. parents are a contibuting factor, if kids are not read to at an early age and then encouraged to do so them selves there after, the this may effect their education levels. In addition benefits breed benefits. BUT what i suggest is get some OFSTED inspectors in and get the school judged. The students will act appropriatly for the event but overall a report would open up truths for parents to view. Failing all this take the map to the estate agents and move to the best catchment results area!
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kevin,
The role of parents is to bring up their children to be the best citizens they can.
If Mr Bean’s statistics are right – see http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2011/09/08/education-backs-down-over-gcse-exam-results/#comment-104670 – that means either buying a house in the Les Beaucamps catchment, or bludgeoning your way through Education’s OCAS process to achieve the same effect.
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Kevin – if you want my honest opinion the role of parents is to take back the responsibility of raising their children that has gradually been abdicated to the state.
A mixture of ignorance, laziness and apathy means that over the past few decades the state has taken more and more power over our children, meaning that at times schools effectively act as surrogate parents – poking their oar into areas they frankly have no business getting involved with.
I was never really bothered about this until I had a child of my own but that has changed things considerably. The recent fiascos involving the Education Department have convinced me that it’s time for us parents to reassert ourselves and retake the responsibility we have abdicated. With a bit of effort most parents are more than capable of raising children that will become well balanced productive members of society.
I for one will never abdicate my right and repsonsibility to raise my children to the state.
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PS Kevin, part of that repsonsibility (sic) is to teach goo spelling! ;)
Also to hold Education to account and ensure they act with transparency, not the aloof arrogance we have seen recently from Deputy Steere and her department.
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chrisj
what a body swerve
when oh when will you call a spade a spade?
I take it from your answer that helping to educate your child is part of “bringing up your child to be the best citizen they can”
Paul le Page you are right but who abdicated responsibility drrrr the parents! who then, should be held accountable?
PLP WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
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Kevin PLP is me as well….trying to add a bit of humour, perhaps I shouldn’t quit the day job eh?
Absolutely us parents should hold ourselves accountable. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold Education to account as well. One naturally leads to another.
Half the trouble is that we leave our responsiblity at the school gate, rather than taking an active role in education. Every parent should take an interest in exactly what is being taught, who is teaching it and to what standard. That’s part of what this issue is about and why parents have a right to tranparency.
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Paul le Page
fair enough post.
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