A family will struggle on the average wage
Tuesday 13th September 2011, 2:30PM BST.
PARENTS with two children should be able to maintain a minimal standard of life with just over £500 per week, new research has shown.
An investigation to define Guernsey’s minimal income standards has set the bar for the smallest sum that islanders would need, not only to survive, but to be able to participate in society.
The figures were calculated taking account of the local cost of commodities such as food, clothes, and fuel, and what islanders believed to be essential aspects of life.
Social Security minister Mark Dorey (pictured) said the findings were relevant to the department’s reforming of the supplementary benefit scheme.
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I’d like to see those who produced this report try and survive on £2k a month with a typical rent/mortgage over here!
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Jeff, completely agree with you. With the 2 children you would need a minimum 2 bed place and £2k per month will not go very far at all.
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The article did not make clear how much of sum was expected to go on accomadation or how it compares with benefit levels social housing costs, private housing costs or the standard of housing to be purchased, not much use really.
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A consultation report worth investing in …or so I thought until I realised they had only interviewed 60 people!
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To feel financially secure, be an owner/occupier with a mortgage, run two decent cars, have a foreign holiday, eat well, not worry about energy bills and not feel excluded from cultural/social events on the island a family of four need a gross weekly income of well over £1000 a week. £500 a week gross is poverty here. In fact I’d say a family earning under £75000 are making compromises.
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Wait for the abuse.
You are correct, well put!
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We survive on £2k a month however it’s only because we don’t have a horrendous mortgage, and even then we still struggle.
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As a family of four I feel far from financially secure. We can’t afford any luxuries and have one bummed out car. We’re on about £3000 a month but with a £1500 mortgage a month we’re scraping by.
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@Wait for the abuse;
Spot on!
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Wait for the abuse. Spot on!….
I’d like to know how £500 per week is expected to include rent of accommodation, when a one bedroomed flat costs a minimum of £1000 per month.
These experts live on a different planet to everyone else!…OR does the £500 include States, subsidised accommodation??…
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Figures are easy to manipulate but quite often reality is different. If you have a mortgage then you will probably have insurences on top, medical bills. If you have a car then insurance and repairs for that as well so £500 a week for a family of four seems low taking into account the cost of things in Guernsey.
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Figures are easy to manipulate but quite often reality is different. If you have a mortgage then you will probably have insurences on top, medical bills. We are keep being told we should have private pensions. If you have a car then insurance and repairs for that as well so £500 a week for a family of four seems low taking into account the cost of things in Guernsey.
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Is that before or after tax? What amount of mortgage are they using for their calculations? As waitfortheabuse says you may need well over £1000 a week -but it depends on how recently you bought. But there are people who will say that they “struggle” no matter what income they are on.
At face value I think the figure seems reasonable. When I first came to the island 6 years ago, I earned 45,000 gross, supported a family of 5, rented a nice 3 bedroom terrace on the open market, two of the kids did after school activities almost everyday (including expensive piano lessons). We ate healthily. Dressed well (in my opinion!). I don’t think we fit the definition of “struggling” as I felt quite comfortable- but we did budget a lot, rarely ate out and forfeited the overseas holiday and instead went to herm every now and again- oh and we had (shock horror) only one second hand car! People who are struggling don’t have overseas holidays every year- thats laughable.
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Let’s see Mr Dorey show us all how it’s done by volunteering to have his wage cut to “just over” £500 pw… Especially seeing as how he’s just another sponger on the taxpayer!
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We will be only getting one wage when my missus finishes work to have our first child. I think I’m on a good wage for my age and we have managed our finances in such a way that we can survive on ~£700 a week.
We don’t smoke, barely drink, don’t go out, go on 1 holiday a year costing £1k and our only ‘vice’ is running 2 cars. I batch cook all our meals, never buy out of a packet and shop around all the supermarkets for the best deals.
How anyone with a mortgage of £1500+ earning less than £700 manages I have absolutely no idea.
Anyone who hasn’t found price increases effecting their spending habbits are very fortunate.
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Mortgage??? …Now that’d be nice!
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Perhaps if they are struggling to make do on an average wage they should try working for the public sector….Security, annual wage increases beyond inflation and a pension to die for.
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Ha Ha Ha how much. I can just afford to live now and I am careful avarage wage about £27k yer right who did they ask???????????????????
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Statistics, statistics and damn lies! States Housing availability Zero, Housing Association availability Zero, 3 bed private rental £1800-2000 per month, cut the out the luxuries like food! Disgaceful a shameful state of affairs, our Government should resign on block, TODAY!
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In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of.
Confuscious
They say it is better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable, but how about a compromise like moderately rich and just moody?
Stone De Croze
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We are a family of 5, due to ill health I have had to give up work so we rely upon my husbands income of under £1500 per month. We have a mortgage to pay, a backlog of bills and receive no help. We cannot afford satelite television, holidays or meals out, we have a car but only use it in emergencies. We have no microwave, dishwasher, tumble dryer as these are too expensive to run. Our clothing comes from charity shops (which are now becoming too expensive) we are supporting our son through university as he did not ‘qualify’ for a grant/loan. One of my children desperately needs replacement glasses, Month by month we are slipping further into debt., my husband works weekends and bank holidays but only receives basic pay, no ‘overtime rates’ as there are plenty of non-local employees at his company who are happy to work the hours if he doesn’t want too. We are local and apparently ‘on the borderline’ so do not qualify for any help from the states. I hope they adopt this £500 per week minimum because then we would be able to have some help.
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Since when has a “minimal standard of living” been only to have one overseas holiday a year? Thats so typical Guernsey -”I’m so poor I’ve only been on one overseas holiday this year, oh poor me” or even “Im sooooo poor, my family has only one car… I sometimes even [gasp] take the bus!”. What a laugh. Who set these standards? Please put the violins away because they’re not working.
I do feel, however, for those who bought their first home recently, because mortgage stress on two incomes- now that’s real.
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Andy,
Come and join the public sector then, you can work my shift (anytime between 5.30am and midnight, most weekends, bank holidays in fact any of the year including potentially Christmas day) all for the massive sum of about £25K a year gross not forgetting that 6.5% of the weekly wage is taken out towards ‘the pension to die for’.
Believe it or not working in the public sector is not always cushy and well paid, and there is a lot of people on lower pay groups than me.
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Openmarketjoe
It is a necessity for anyone who lives on the island to have at least one off island holiday a year. Especially if you have children, to show them how the real world works.. after all you wouldn’t want to live in disneyland 52 weeks a year would you…
500 a week must be with subsidised housing.
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Just read the report the figures quoted DO NOT include rent. There is a separate section with the cost of social housing but as no social housing is available and Social Securities benefit cap is £405 why are Mark Dorey and Jonesy not explaining their failure? Our other Politicians seem to be embarressed into silence too,none of this is new, the last report was much the same, a decade of abject failure!
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If you can not afford kids then do not have them, if you can not afford a mortgage then rent or move to the mainland, about time peeps started taking responsibility for the bed they lay in and quit MOANING (and in the process making other peeps moan about your moaning, and so on).
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I respect your point localmarketguern, however, popular family holiday destinations such as centreparcs, some sunny island getaway or like you say disneyland, is not really showing kids the “real world” is it? Most people view holidays as an escape. I also argue that “sightseeing” is not a real cultural experience, but its better than nothing and good to go to places like the Louve for example, when the kids are a bit older. Unfortunately the places you would travel to see the “real world” are not places I would likely feel safe to take children. I like holidays but I regard them as a luxury item to be had every few years after a lot of saving.
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Rich, if people stopped having kids, where will the next generation of workers come from who will pay into the social security pot to keep you in free medical cover and prescriptions and a pension when your old, do me a favour, av a day off eh!
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im on sup, after my partner left i had to leave work, i get 240 a week from sup plus 80 family allowence. once ive paid rent,electric,nappies for 2 baby milk ect, food shop, im lucky if im left with 30 pounds for the weekly milk an bread. but im happy, we take trips to the park with a picnic, walks around the island, make our own fun. if we get to go down the bowl ect its a treat from my brothers. i try my hardest, but my kids are clean, happy well fed so im happy, even tho i go without new things so they can
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Rich,are you rich by name? you say if you can’t afford a mortgage then rent well rent is and sometimes more then a mortgage each month. Everything is going up in cost around us but the/our wages never seem to meet. I work two jobs so I can afford a holiday and some times treat myself and partner to nice food once a week. So we are allowed to moan.. if we want too.I don’t just sit on my backside every day I work hard for my monies.
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Aunty GP, think about the ‘chicken and egg’ in regards to your comment. ‘I’ cover my own med care, prescription through the medical insurance ‘I’ pay for and ‘MY’ pension will be covered by ‘MY’ contributions.
Again, take responsibility for your life.
I do have sympathy for people whose situation has changed like those with long-time illnesses &/or family death however they will have to sell there houses, etc and change there live and situation if they failed to have to correct insurances, health cover in place, why should they be a burden for people like me.
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Glad to see tha mumof5 has the attitude, sounds a lot like my roots, had fun with the minimal available.
This is down to another issue where the fathers get away with living with responsibility. For one with five kids, 80% of his pay should be going to there unbringing, i kid u not. Assuming that you could of supported 5 kids both financially and emotionally when you were together or they all didn’t drop at once.
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I am not rich or been given any benefit in life that anyone else has not had but i am self-sufficient and content.
“You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of.”
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There they are, not used to such a delay in the tech world we live in now where you can get the 5000% loan in 10 minutes and not a lot of cash for a lot of gold…..
Not usually this vocal about story however i think this one covers may vices in todays world that peeps need to address.
Last message from me anyways…..
Peace
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@Rich… i could not agree more!
I am so sick of hearing people say “i’ve got 5 kids and i can’t afford to live”.
Have these poeple not heard of contraception?! Seriously, once is a mistake, more than that is careless at best and irresponsible at worst. If you can’t afford children… stop having them!
I have wanted a child for years, but have worked hard until i feel i am in a position to provide a good life for them. Seems to be a foreign concept around here!
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Oh rich, how wrong u have it, u clearly have no understanding of our social security system. Plus if we all waited to be able to afford kids, no one would have them and soon we’d be the way of the dodo!
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Oh Aunty, you got me to bite.
Some quotes i found sadly amusing ‘the next generation of workers ‘ & ‘we’d be the way of the dodo’
First point, we are human beings not a hive of bees. So you say lets have babys so they can clean up the mess that over population and a general disregard for this planets wellbeing, caused by peeps having more children that they can bring up properly will a solid moral basis, has created.
Second point, you are aware right that as a species we are expanding at a rate that it is so unsustainable it isn’t funny, we are due to double the population of the planet by 2050. What future does this generation have.
I have contributed more to SS than have taken, how much is my state pension going to be worth when/if I reach retirement, not a banker i think.
But fear not, everything will be okay when the alien invasion commences in 201X.
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Oh rich, you sound like the cyncical moanings of someone who is yet to find someone they wish to have children with, and someone with whom you can afford a mortgage with, and so because you havent got it, no one else should either?
Hopefully some day you will meet your soul mate and your life will become enriched!
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@ Aunty GP
You do not know me, obviously, and if that is all you have, to take discussion to a personal level, shame on you, very disappointing.
I feel I have wasted enough time on you.
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The editorial piece isn’t clear if the £26000 per year includes someone with an ‘average’ mortgage, or paying an average rent or indeed in social housing.
If the latter then it might be possible for a family of two to get on and ‘participate’ in society, but even with subsidised housing, I’d genuinely be surprised.
Does the sample:
– own a car
– pay child care costs
– allowed one small off island holiday a year
– participate in a sport
– Internet Connection
– Sky subscription
– Fuel costs: Oil, gas, Electricity
Or do they sit in a dim light with a bowl of soup and a candle?
The article could do with a bit more clarification.
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Unless we live in a communist country I am pretty sure we are all allowed to have as many children as we wish. This doesn’t always make life easy but I would rather make my life a little harder now and know I won’t be growing old and bitter. These discussions always seem to come back to people telling others not to have children. Whether or not I had two children or not would not change the fact that I have a large mortgage and a wage that doesn’t get payrises whilst other costs are going up. It would just mean that I had more selfish money. I did wait until my situation was better that it had been before I had children however with all the costs going up and a large mortgage for an average family home it is not easy.
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Some people are left in a catch 22 situation
those living in states house will have to pay extra on rents if they earn extra to pay for other items
I know of a few who worked overtime to pay for the expensive school uniforms and other items they needed for school.
Some of the overtime money was taken in tax.other in insurance stamp and other in extra rent.So they were left with little to spend on what was needed.
While other get as much as they can from the states
this is not fair
give those who work an incentive please.
There are some elderly folk who never ask for anything that choose to go with out food so they can feed a cat or dog.
Perhaps it is time we had a nosey social worker for these elderly folks who are very proud .
with the electric going up so much this winter and the price of coal they will also suffer .as they will not be able to afford the heating.
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yes i have 5, but i also worked, yes we had to watch what was spent between my ex an mine wages. 3 were planed but hell it happens so before you ask if i could cope, think what you say. yes i agree ohhhh i have 5 kids ect but at least i have only just started using the benefits, my oldest being 12. so i think ive done well dont you?. if you would like to know why im not with their dad, i threw him out for catching him in bed with my neighbor, so i have all the rights to do what i did thank you xx sue xxx
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If you brought your house a long time back or have paid your mortgage then you can easily support a familiy of four in comfort and with some perks like the cheaper holidays. I know because I do.
If you brought recently a house or you rent then there is no way you can support a familiy of four in any sort of comfort in Guernsey.
It’s as simple as that. The recent mortgages/rents kill your quality of life unless you earn a bucket load…
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Also it’s not really the fault of the landords either with high rents as those rents are required due to the really high cost of property maintenance.
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