2

Da

Not a fan of league tables and “my school is better than yours” mentality but there obviously seems to problems within education that the department is trying to play down or even hide.
It’s time these polititians realised that parents and pupils are not stupid, they know if there are problems at a school and the “we know best” attitude of the education department only serves to show them in a bad light.
Maybe there are some serious issues that need to be addressed instead of new uniforms, continuity of teaching staff for instance might be a good place to start

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4

Josh

I fail to see how this is bad, parents will push for students to go elsewhere, numbers will fall and student per techer ratio will fall, leading to better teaching boosting e results, this will inevitably lead to an equalibrium.

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6

Dani

12%! Poor kids, they have really been let down.

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8

Jeff

I fear this has been going on at LMDC for far too long.

Teaching issues have been around for at least 15 years.

I am just glad my child won’t be in that catchment area!

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10

Guern

What!?! This can’t be right? I took my GCSE’s at LMDC 10 years ago and the vast majority of us got very good grades… what has happened? The teachers must be doing something very very wrong

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12

ChrisJ

I’m getting a bit annoyed now.

Education has been exposed playing politics with official statistics. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to release individual schools’ GCSE results. For years they’ve shafted any capital investment ambitions at the Ladies College. They’ve stonewalled on reviewing the catchment areas. They’ve changed school admissions policies without consultation. They play fast and loose with parents’ rights and taxpayers’ money in restricting admission to the RC primary schools. They continue to defend a divisive academic selection process long after it has been almost completely abandoned everywhere else both in theory and in practice.

Why? Let’s throw an idea out there – the status quo is an easy environment for Education’s employees. They tell you which school you go to, it can’t be challenged, there’s no element of parent choice, no competition between schools for pupils, no reward for excellence, and no effective accountability for failure.

In the process they’ve divided the island – public v private, rich v poor, faith v secular, academic v vocational, setting family against envious family in bitter fights over the few nuggets of opportunity available in wash of mediocrity.

Why the hell do we put up with it?

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14

big Gurener

I went down LDMC for whole of school. Left in 2002 and was getting big top marks threw out. Offen top of class! Nothing wrong with way were taught. Im sure i would of done well still today. Must be them kids – easy too blame teachers. The kids probaly dont apply themselve.

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16

Paul Le Page

Hopefully this spells the end of Deputy Steere’s career as Education Minister.

Under her tenure Education has tried to paper over the cracks by imposing school uniforms on High Schools and placing unreasonable (and probably illegal) restrictions on parents who want the opportunity to give their children a faith school education.

Although the seeds for this were undoubtedly sown before her time, she clearly does not have the capability to make the necessary changes to bring things up to scratch.

It is time for Deputy Steere to do the honourable thing and for someone more capable to take her place.

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18

LR

@ big Gurener – very funny post !

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20

catherine Hall

Publishing the results of GCSEs is only going to damage morale if those results are unacceptably low. Leaving school with only a couple of GCSEs is no shame if that is the limit of ones potential, it may be a source of regret if down to a lack of effort. But to think if one had only lived half a mile up the road one might have been able to go to a better school is totally unacceptable. Guernsey may have its fair share of social problems, but the catchment areas for all three secondary schools provides a broad social mix. We do not have large ‘sink hole estates’ or ‘ghetto’ schools. It would be reasonable therefore to expect a similar pass rate in all three schools. If not we need to know why not and what is been done to address the situation.

Just as a comparison my son attends a small private school in England that manages a 25% GCSE C to A* pass rate despite 50% of its pupils having Special educational needs.

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22

EducatingEssex

Mrs. Steere, there is a cardboard box on your desk – start packing. You have monumentally let these children, and the island down. It is through the extremely poor management and negligence that the education system has reached this disastrous position. States – do not waste your time thinking how you can cut money from the truly successful and pride of Guernsey’s education system, instead save money by not paying Steere, as she obviously does nothing!

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24

Blow-in Boy

This is TRULY disgusting!
@ Mr Bean
“How are the Heads at La Mare and St Sampson’s getting away with leading such schools with such dreadful results? If this was in the private sector and they were Directors, they would be sacked.”

It’s quite simple HOW they’re getting away with it-they were hiding behind the anonymity of Non-published results.

The solution is quite simple –

1- NO kid leaves school until gaining a minimum of five G.C.S.E’s. If that means they’re there until 25 then tough.

2- SACK the entire Faculty (including the heads of these abysmally performing schools) and hire in Staff that can justify the wages to pupils, teachers and the public.

3- ALSO sack Deputy Steele,no questions asked, NO GOLDEN HANDSHAKE, NO PENSION for mass dereliction of duty in making these schools perform and provide pupils with a future.

This Island for too long has run on a Monopoly basis, from Housing to Education, you just have to walk down the SPP high street to see that only certain retailers can sell goods because of certain Corporate affiliations and Umbrella associations (I swear that the PTB’s in Guernsey think Men should walk round stark naked as there are NO Mens clothes shops to speak of). Remove the exclusivity, make things extremely transparent and accountable by the Public, let there be sackings on the spot with no right of appeal and you may find people perform better.

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26

Ray

LR

You could always mix a little private business along with your States business while you’re abroad.I believe it’s been done before

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28

Penny

I have been left feeling really sad, depressed and let down by these statistics. You might expect such results in a third world or developing economy, but we are Guernsey in the 21st century!

I feel desperately for the pupils of these schools as these results will stay with them for the rest of their life. Why aren’t people being held accountable? Teaching staff and civil servants should not have a job for life with a generous final-salary pension scheme if they are not performing.

Tell us what is being done about it. Don’t bleat on about needing a new school. (Note: St Sampson’s results have gone down even with a new school). Don’t tell us we have been affected by increasing the school leaving age as we are now comparing like with like with England.

Have a transparent inquiry about why, despite the millions ploughed into schools, the results are so poor. Pupils and parents deserve this but so do employers as where is the workforce of tomorrow going to come from if they can’t reach a basic minimum standard of education.

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30

nocon

What is wrong with inter school rivalry be it in school sports, quiz or spelling competitions or overall results in exams?

If a school is under-acheiving in ANY quarter then surely it`s up to the parents, head person and staff to instill in their pupils that they can be better than other schools.

When I was a Grammar school we had “houses” which competed against each other for awards and extra privilages. We also held sports and educational competitions against other schools for trophies which we were proud to represent our school at.

Pride in one`s school even went into the uniform and how we were seen in public. Everyone was “encouraged” to behave and dress tidily and correctly in public, where has all that gone? Out of the window when casual school clothes and NAMBY-PAMBY, MY POOR LITTLE JOHNNY/JEMIMA, PC correct parenting came in.

I hope, with the reintroduction of uniforms, that parents, heads and teachers will again try and bring back pride in the pupil`s schools.

This will be reflected by better exam results in the long run and a better future for our children with their self respect and confidence being boosted.

The world today is run by presentation and winning results and where better to start teaching our kids how to control their futures?

Parents MUST also back up the system by ensuring their offspring are dressed properly for school and also with backing their teachers and heads in any reasonable request or ruling changes to give their children the best start in life.

STOP MOLLY CODDLING YOUR KIDS, YOU ARE DOING THEM NO FAVOURS. YOU WON`T BE THERE TO FIGHT THEIR BATTLES WHEN THEY GO TO THE WORK PLACE.

School is where a child`s whole life begins and if it goes wrong there would YOU like to think YOU are responsible if your child turns out under educated about life, out of work through lack of educational opertunities or in trouble with the law after being given a free rein and allowed to be unruly at school.
The teaching staff can`t do it by themselves, they need the parents backing.

YOUR SCHOOLS, BUT MAINLY YOUR KIDS, NEED YOU TO HELP GET THEM INTO THE FUTURE.

DON`T LET THEM DOWN.

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32

blogger

The problems with the educating of children today stems from the way they are educated. Children are taught how to pass an exam rather than being taught their subjects properly. Too much emphasis is put on exam results and not on a good all round knowledge of all subjects that are taught.

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34

John

Whilst this result is poor, we should also criticise results which show a 98% pass rate.

12% of the pupils are obviously more elite than the rest and this sort of figure makes it easier for businesses to select the “best”. How on earth can they do this when the pot is 98% ?

Exams are too easy now and whilst this result clearly indicates a problem with the school / education system, we do nee to review the whole examination system in the UK and Guernsey.

Employers are finding it extremely difficult to find the right person for the job because of poor education in general.

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36

Ray

Good heartfelt post nocon

Carol Steere as the political figurehead is naturally having to take all the flak on these posts but let us not forget that four other paid Deputies sit around the table at Committee meetings with a voice and a vote

So next April you may want to show your appreciation not only for Deputy Steere of St Peter Port North but also for
Deputy Spruce Vale
Deputy Fallaize Vale
Deputy Collins St Peter Port North
Deputy De Lisle The West

Get on the Electoral Roll or sit twiddling your thumbs in frustration for another four years

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38

patrickE

Educational is a leading indicator of any societies future. If Guernsey wants a great future it needs great schooling, not just low tax rates. Turning around failing schools is a well trodden path, its done on the mainland quite regularly, you simply need to hire the right head, with the right experience.

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40

Concerned Mum

Some of the children in these schools are simply not academic. Instead of trying to drill basic maths, english, science into them I think it has to be accepted that they need a more vocational based education. The academic subjects are just too difficult and as a result these children are disruptive during lessons. If they were given the chance to attend more hands on based lessons, it would leave the more academic students to concentrate on their work. By the way there is no shame in being more hands on than academic.

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42

Guern

Alfred – Big Gurener’s post was a joke you fool! and why automatically assume the writer is female???

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44

Dave Haslam

Concerned Mum

Maths and English are NOT academic subjects, they are staple pillars of any job a person does, a brickie needs maths, basic formulae and trigonometry, a plumber needs to read and understand, a receptionist needs english. In 99% of all job scenarios English and Maths are core skills.

I agree that the sciences and other languages arent for everyone, but serious advanced studies of most subjects dont start until A-Level, when students have the choice of BTEC the vocational equivalent.

Perhaps more should be done in year 9 to ensure students choose the correct subjects for their GCSE’s. I was schooled in the UK, and when it was our time to choose we had 3 weeks of intense advice, teachers telling us what they beleived our strong points were and which subjects those strenghths were suited to. They also advised that we pick a certain number of subjects that we had an interest in, then our core strnghths and interests were both being utilised so that our combined exam syllabus’s didnt become too boring. We were extensivelly councelled and then had to personally justify every choice to our form teacher and year head before it was rubber stamped.

In contrast tales of the advice (or lack thereof) given to pupils at LM are scary.

There appears to be cracks at a fundamental level at that school which I’ve touched on in other threads so I wont go into again, but I’m getting absolutely sick of Carol Steere taking us for mugs over this. Frankly her radio interview had me more angry than I’ve been in a long time, these are childrens lives she’s playing her ridiculous gamns with. Quite why she cannot admit that they are underperforming is beyond me, or perhaps she hopes that enough of us were schooled at La mare and therefore too thick to see through her rhetoric.

The sooner someone in that department admits there is a problem, the sooner we can get it on the road to being sorted.

We DONT want you papering over the cracks.

We DONT want you spinning the statistics anymore to try and make yourself safe for 2012.

We DO want you to admit that you were wrong for keeping vital information out of the public domain to protect yourself.

We DO want you to tell us exactly what you plan to do to solve this mess.

Then and only then, will you even start to gain a semblance of my respect.

Most of all the public CANNOT let this blow over. This is our future.

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46

Bigger issue.

We need to get rid of the 11+ which is a totally unfair system. Unfortunatley the majority of deputies in 2001 chose to go against the advice they were given by the headteachers of the island. A terrible mistake.

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48

Penny

Week done Dave H for a brilliant post! This is what MUST happen. I can’t believe there aren’t more posts on this topic. Parents should be livid.

Kevin, my point had nothing to do with the Colleges. But, how dare Carol Steer stand up in the States and say it is no coincidence that La Mare results are low as they will be the last to benefit from a rebuild and this must prioritise the rebuild. St Sampson’s High’s results have gone down since their rebuild.

What is needed is to get some motivated staff in there. And I am afraid that it probably starts with a new Head, Deputy and Management Team not forgetting a mass clear out at the Education Department and at Board Level.

If this was in the UK La Mare and St Sampsons would be in ‘special measures’ and in effect taken over with a flying squad drafted in.

Sort it out!

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50

Sinbad

Carole Steere has completely failed in her remit. She would be the one screaming for the head of any other Minister who had so completely failed in this way.
As Education Minister, she ought to have been guns blazing against the Housing and Licence dept with regard to teachers licences.
She should have been battling to pay top wages for the best headteachers and gone off Island looking for them if suitable candidates were not available locally.
She should stop her ‘close the Grammar rhetoric’ because at the moment, that school is actually performing at an incredible level.
Instead of focussing on getting rid of the Grammar, she ought to have been looking at it as an example of how to run a States school – zero tolerance on bad behaviour, respect for teachers and one another and instilling a desire to learn.
I personally feel that until we leave this idea of ‘inclusion’ we are stuck with this situation. Remember when the kids who were downright misbehaved were removed from the school? Now, they get to put their feet up on the desk next to kids who want to learn. And before anyone jumps in, I am not referring to SEN in anyway.

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52

Nat

I started off with two children at La Mare High School and now only have
one remaining as I moved one to a private school in the middle of Year 8.
This was primarily due to the fact that they were in the top set for most
subjects and were being picked on by other students for being able to answer
questions and had regressed because of this.

I have had a constant struggle during the last 4 years to understand the
lack of homework given to pupils at La Mare. I have made my thoughts and feelings
known to the school on numerous occasions and regularly make comment in the
homework diary. My child in private school gets on average 2 – 3 subjects each evening
which means they not only have to organise their time but learn to prioritise
their work accordingly. In contrast my other child, who is still at La Mare in the
very important Year 9, receives 1 to 2 pieces per week. Maybe if the
teachers were to provide stretch and pushed the students a little bit they
would achieve higher standards.

I do believe the school is very good with the less able students however,
there is no stretch or push for the higher ability students.

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54

DragonSlayer

When the GCSE was brought in (first examination year 1988), I was at St Sampson Secondary. In the 2 years preceding these exams, parents and candidates had numerous meetings with the School and Education at which they were told that the GCSE was supposed to give a level playing field for all to be assessed on.

Leading on from that, we were told that for Secondary School students, we should expect good passes to be between grade C and E (considering that GCSEs are graded from grade A through to G). I got good results through working extremely hard and 2 of those were at grade D, the rest higher – my teachers thought I had done very well for the work I’d put in.

It seems that employers now interpret that you must have grade A to C to be good, and anything less than C is not acceptable (so how does that make secondary pupils feel), especially when, like myself, they have worked very hard and have good results for their ability.

It is even worse that the media make a big fuss that the grades should be released for all schools and that schools are chastised as being poor for their grade per centages being lower than the expected grade C.

Come on – get real. What is the point of introducing a fair across the board system when employers set a precedent and the media then make those with lower than that precedent feel inferior when they have, in fact, done well when relating all of this to their own abilities.

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56

hellno

1. Chuck Steere out! She seems to put her personal vendeta’s top and tries to hide facts

2. With pass rates going up per exam how has this stat trended over time in Guernsey?

3. Can’t be blamed on facilities.

4. As with the public sector on a whole the problem is performance is not reflected in pay etc. DOes it matter if these teachers do a good job? Not really they still get paid and get a fat pay rise(relative to the private sector) and a juicy pension.

5. This is exactly why we should applaud the college’s job and not punish them!

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58

Mr Lloyd

Dragonslayer

I did my GCSE’s in 1992, and was told in no uncertain terms BY MY TEACHERS that anything less than a C was for all intents and purposes a fail. This isnt industry standard or demanded by a rabid media. This was “you wont be allowed to do an A-Level in a subject with less than C at GCSE”.

It was also expected of us to continue school after GCSE’s which is why C was important.

The GCSE’s were the first phase of the PC “let everybody pass” so even a G (which equates to what?? around 10-20%) was considered a pass. GCSE’s are a fair accross the board system as they are technically a level playing field, however in a system that rewards mediocrity (G), lines had to be drawn, it was drawn (fairly I might add as your results suggest) at C.

If you think La mare has done well as you intimate, then your fit to go on the education board.

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60

Ed

@DragonSlayer

welcome to the real world pal…

TAXI FOR STEERE!!

She was absolutely hilarious on t’radio this morning.

Well worth a listen again if you missed it

Apparently she wants to “get on with the job and the business of education”

What, pray, has she been up to for the last three years then?

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62

honestly

lets be honest, its not that big a surprise… if all the kids from the genats estate go to LMDC, of course the avereage is going to be lower!

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64

Medium G

Gilthead – I think you meant 88%…you must have gone to LMDC!

More seriously, I believe that if the school has a culture of discipline and respect for the teachers, it will not fail. 12% is a failure and thus the school is failing. I do not know the headmaster / headmistress there, but I hope he or she is having the support to turn this round from the Education Department. If this person is incapable of leading this turnaround, they will need to be replaced. Maybe the Education Department feels this is already been done. I hope so for the sake of next years pupils.

Like it or not, for the first years of a young persons career, they are judged on their exam results, and after that, on their performance in the jobs secured as a result of their exam results. Results are important. It is a shame the Education Department are penalising the Colleges for their success, but defending a High School for its failure.

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66

Andy

The Private Schools are laughing !!

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68

hellno

Ed…if you have the link to Steere’sinterview please share it so i can have a listen…and a laugh!

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70

11+ fan

Will the Education department now stop messing about trying to ditch the 11+ and focus on the real problem? The bits that aren’t broken i.e. the Grammar School, the Colleges and the scholarship system should be left well alone. Fix the bit that is broken, these failing schools which if they were in the UK under Ofsted would be closed down!

We have the unique opportunity to build the best secondary schools, if we change the ridiculous short term only licence system for teachers we could attract the best teaching staff and create exceptional environments for learning. But instead of focusing on that, some “chip on the shoulder” jealousy in certain states members and vocal others means the 11+ system is attacked instead. Wake up! It’s the secondary schools which need the attention!

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72

Gilthead

Arnald – I agree with your sentiment.

I too was failed by the system – luckily I managed to get qualified by other means.

The trouble is we get what we vote for. And in this case an apparent shambles.

Again I agree that a root and branch change needs to happen within the education system. Until then though it would be wise for the Education dept to look at how the colleges and grammer succeed and why the high schools fail our children so miserably.

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74

Dave Haslam

Sally

I have been extremely outspoken about LMDC in the last couple of days, and given your comments back up what anecdotal evidence I’ve heard from pupils and parents from there I feel allied to the shocking results that my critiscism is justified.

However for what its worth I never have, and still dont lay too much blame at the teachers door for this, afterall, they are the ones in the firing line, and most teachers I know do the best they can in difficult circumstances, clearly as is the case at La Mare. Also aside from a couple of posts, the majority of the anger here appears directed in the right place, the Education board and the Head Teachers, not the actual teachers themselves.

Your post is proof positive that the priorities are all wrong top down, which is massively effecting the guys in the front line.

Personally the first thing I would do if I were Steere is write a letter from the Board of Education to every parent of a current secondary school child and warn them that discruptive behavour is no longer tolerated at any school. And the first sign, be it in the playground or in the classroom of bullying or antisocial behaivour of any kind then its warning letter followed by a 1 week suspension for any further infringement, no ifs no buts and crucially no negotiation none of “My little Jimmy says your teacher is lying and hates him”, no angry mum forced away from Jeremy Kyle to suiddenly care about the kid she’s consigned to the XBox for the last 8 years, maybe after a week spent cramping mums style students might have more respect, particularly if they come back into school acting the hard nut and suddenly landing another week at home. Then Steere needs to force the headmasters to get tough and impolement this, if this ruffles some parents feathers then so what, any parent that wants a decent education for their child will be happy to see it.

I’m sure your husband would love to flex some disciplinary muscle to the betterment of those in his class that want to learn.

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76

Blow-in Boy

“Toto

@Blow-in Boy: sounds like a communist regime to me, perhaps you’d fare well in China? Some people just aren’t interested in education.”

Take a look at Chinese education and results and the jobs and degrees these students then go on to achieve. Our WONDERFUL education results over here mean that our Economy is the fastest growing in the world (unlike China’s declining economy over the last 3-5 years), oh,wait,sorry I got that wrong,that should be the reverse. Maybe the fact that I achieved 10 G.C.S.E’s at Grade C and above has me confused? There were those at my school that weren’t interested in Education either but they sure as hell left with Five G.C.S.E’s MINIMUM! I was also told that ANYTHING less than a C Grade was ultimately seen as a fail in the world of Employment and that you would have to work twice as hard in a job that was half as well paid.
Maybe if this Namby Pamby “oh you’re wonderful,you can piss about and do what you like because you can have all you want without working for it, we’re not going to tell it like it is but sugar coat and molly coddle you into a false sense of X-Factor Security” attitude stopped completely and we were ACTUALLY to say

“Sit down,shut the hell up,listen to what I have to say – The world out there is cut throat, you underachieve in school and you utterly fail out there in the wide world, people WILL stab you in the back to get what you want,they WILL walk all over you if you’re not clever enough to play the game, you WON’T get what you want without an education and a decent entrance into the world of work or Higher education. Get over yourselves, you’ll turn out like Factory drones like millions of others if you don’t pay attention and knuckle down”

…………..then maybe things would shape up?

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78

ChrisJ

BillyB,

Interesting to note the parallel between your comment here about parents needing to have the right to elect a school other than LMDC, and this comment seen on another thread:

‘Is not the Education department’s inflexible catchment area policy actually contravening Guernsey’s Education Law?’

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2011/09/23/education-sets-catholic-primary-admission-policy-head-confirms/#comment-106475

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80

DragonSlayer

@Mr Lloyd . . . and to everyone else . . .

The GCSE was intended to replace the CSE and A-Level combined – CSEs were the exam that Secondary School students took prior to the GCSE and the equivalent GCSE grades were C to F – I believe that grade G was what CSE classed as ungraded!

So you’re telling me that my Grade D GCSEs were mediocre and that I’m mediocre – actually, they were subjects I found extremely hard and if you ask my teachers and my parents/family, they would tell you that I spent all of my spare time studying and working extremely hard for those subjects outside of school.

I’ve done well for myself and have a respectable job so where’s the problem there.

I never said whether I thought La Mare’s performance was good or bad – to be fair to the teachers though, I know that they work extremely hard and are dedicated to their cause. My be fair and get real statements were to point out that there are 2 sides to any story, and anyone who says the teachers are bad because the grades are not as top notch as you would expect is very unfair.

In addition, my nieces and nephews have all attended/are still at La Mare and they work hard and to the best of their ability – my eldest nephew has just started at University so don’t think he did that badly for himself.

. . . so if you think I’m worthy of being on the Education Board, I guess that’s a result of my mediocre grades – as you put it.

All I would say though is that you don’t have to insult someone who is stating the facts as they were given when the exams were introduced and saying to be fair and consider how your comments may make others (like the teachers) feel.

@Ed

If this is the real world, I’d rather stay in my mediocre one thanks – if that means I try to treat everyone fairly rather than chastising those who are doing their very best and aren’t as successful in examinations . . .

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82

Dan

Phil, don’t even go there. We work impossibly long hours. I can genuinely say that I work as many hours outside of work as I do actually teaching, including during the holidays.

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84

Private & States

@Andy re:” The Private Schools are laughing !!”

No we are not! We think the results are absolutely disgusting. We are tax payers too!!

I think the states also need to test the states infants and junior schools, I am sure that you would be just as shocked at those results!

The states education system in general are failing our children. If they weren’t, we wouldn’t have pulled one of our children out of a states primary school. (Yes, the catchment area for us would have been La Mare!)

If necessary we would sell our house to fund our other childs education, if need be. However, I hope that won’t be the case.

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86

ex pupil

I had the most fantastic experience at La Mare De Carteret. I left a few years ago and went on to the Grammar Sixth Form after gaining 9 GCSE’s grade B and above(mostly As). Everybody aimed for different grades, as different people are capable of schieving different grades, but we were all supported equally. But it wasn’t the results that mattered to me as much as the personality I gained from La Mare. There are people of every type there, and you learn from them all. By the end of my time at La Mare, we all looked out for each other and knew each other well, it felt like a close knit community! I was happy throughout my five years spent there. When I first found out I was going to La Mare, my parents were a little anxious (as most would be) but after a week spent there, I already knew I would be a valued student. The teachers’ encouragement at La Mare really helped me build self esteem and helped me keep motivated with my work as well as them offering many exta-curricular activites. Less unnecessary homework given at the high school meant that we could still enjoy our childhood/teenage years and also meant that we could keep up our extra-curricular activities without being put under too much pressure. The teachers put a lot of effort into making sure that everybody was content, and if you needed any help or advice, they wouldn’t consider turning you away. When we had to leave La Mare, it was emotional for everybody- we really didn’t want to leave! All the teachers were interested in our ambitions for the future and they genuinely cared. The fact that all the teachers knew us so well we took for granted, but it is very special to have a school with such caring and enthusiastic teachers. The amount of sport, drama, music and extra revision classes is astounding (as well as any help the teachers would be happy to give.) The school does not need negativity, the students need to be proud of their school when they look back at it. I really appreciate all that the school did for me (and the rest of the students) and I hope that I could return their kindness someday.

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88

Anonymous

Phil, I am a teacher. I work approximately 65 hours a week. I don’t get flex-time or over-time. My pay works out at about £8.50 an hour. This doesn’t include parents evening, running extra curricular activities, taking groups overnight on field trips etc.

Lets say on average a person works 40 hours a week, I would get 25 hours a week overtime. Over the course of the 36 school weeks (which is laughable, a lot teachers work half terms and a part of their Summer and Christmas holidays)I would accrue 900 hours of overtime and be entitled to 22.5 weeks of holiday a year. I get six weeks in the summer, 2 at Christmas, 2 at Easter.

Teachers work their cotton socks off every single day, juggling families and work, and don’t hit the sack until gone midnight, but are back in the classrooms by 8 the next morning. We do it because we want to make a difference to children’s lives and so don’t mind not getting much of a “thank you” because the majority of children appreciate us.

What hampers us is the lack of support for children with behaviour and special needs in mainstream education, lack of support from parents whose children can do no wrong, and office bound management giving us more paper work to do but not supporting us in the classroom.

If teaching were that easy, why don’t more people do it rather than have to bring in non-locals? (I’m local). That’s right, because no-one does want to do it.

We work hard. Appreciate us at the grass roots of education.

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90

Felix

Sally B, reading your comments regarding the current issues at LMDC makes me even more determined to try everything I can to move out of the catchment area!

We as parents try everything we can to help our children with their school work and try to set a good example of working hard and studying ourselves and I really feel for those children who do not have that support.

I would be prepared to try and pay for my children to attend a private school however don’t feel I should have to as the standard of education and trust in the school should be sufficient in the states schools.

Our children only get one education and its a bad state of affairs that our education system is not of a good enough quality to provide them with the best opportunities possible.

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92

Cheesed off

Sarnia Expat

Your post says it all regarding the danger of “comprehensive” education. Everyone gets dragged down to the level of the lowest common denominator, which is why the 11+ ought to remain firmly in place.

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94

jamie

So 12% …. that would be equal 6th lowest in the whole UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8439648.stm

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96

Maths pedant

Quote from GP. “Deputy Steere said that small cohorts meant that one pupil getting a D instead of a C made roughly a 1% difference to their overall five A* to C pass rate.” Yes OK. However the size of the cohort has nothing to do with it. If it were three times as large and the same proportion of students got Ds instead of Cs (as is a reasonable assumption in a school of the same standard) then there would still be a 1% change. Methinks dear Carol needs some mathematics education particularly in statistics.

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98

zorro

Sally B
As are most others on this joke of a site – you are simply using the forum to vent ignorant, ill-informed and prejudiced views. I’ve had 4 children at LMDC for 11 years now and they’ve all done well. That’s not because it’s a great school- it isn’t. It’s because I and my partner have supported and encouraged them and instilled some discipline. The tales they tell of unruly and uncontrollable kids is shocking in the extreme.
But I do think that it’s a lot better now than it was 4 years ago. At least the teachers and the Headteacher are trying to sort out the trouble-makers. I think that if a school has been neglected for so long it will take some time to turn around so we should support the school in dealing with problems that have been created by years of neglect.

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100

Ryan

Cheesed off where did you read this research into comprehensive schooling? You should read the research into 11+ testing.

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102

Teach

I am a teacher at La Mare de Carteret High School and feel obliged to respond to reaction on this thread.
I would firstly like to defend the schools GCSE results for the following reasons:

1. The 12% pass rate that has been reported including English and Maths does not mean that only 12% of our students actually left this year with 5 or more GCSEs at C or above. That level was significantly higher.
2. The % of students getting 5 or more GCSEs was bound to decrease following the raising of the scool leaving age a couple of years ago. So where we had the lower ability range generally leaving at 15 to get Apprentiships or Manual Labour Jobs- We now see these students staying on to 16 (Rightly or Wrongly) which will obviously decrease the % A-Cs.
3. Students of all High Schools now take an aptitude test at the beginning of year 7 and in year 10 that indicates how that student could perform at school. Last years cohort were by no means the most academic and we therefore expected some decrease in the pass rate.
4. With the closing of St Peter Port School, many of these students have had there secondary education disrupted through the closure. Some being taught for up to two years with what became a skeleton staff at St Peter Port. This was followed by the fact that they then changed school to LMDC.

I would however agree that despite these facts that this years results have been slightly lower than anticipated.
I can assure all members of our community that as a dedicated staff team, we are doing our best to give the children in our care the best education possible.
There are many extremely talented teachers at LMDC and I would openly invite any parent into my classroom to observe what happens on any given day.
Having spoken to many students over the last couple of days, they feel let down by the reports in the media which brand us as a failing school. There is a great community spirit within the school which the vast majority of our students have great pride in.
I am not supposed to air my views in a public forum but after years of teaching have never felt at such a low point as I have since yesterday when Deputy Steere made her announcement which will tarnish the reputation of the school for years to come.

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104

Martino

On the contrary Cheesed Off, it shows the 11+ is a failed system but it’s not the only factor. Parents of illiterate and innumerate pupils must shoulder much of the blame for the ‘chavilisation’ of a certain socio-economic strata of Guernsey society. They are breeding a generational sub-class of benefit dependent failures.

The teachers at these failing schools are at fault too. They are implicit in the cover up of these figures and if they were on performance related pay they’d be in for a major salary cut. Last but not least the the Education Department and its chief officers. It’s a total mess but at least it’s out in the open now.

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106

ParentA

Ex pupil

Thank you for your post. It is very reassuring to hear such a positive success story from LMDC. However it does seem that the school’s results have gone down hill since you left.

Guernsey Press

Please publish ex pupils post in the paper. The school could do with a morale boost amidst all the negativity which has surfaced due to this debacle and will need support and positivity if they are to improve.

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108

E

I am currently a year 11 student studying at La Mare de Carteret High School. I do not think it is reasonable for anybody to judge the school because of a small percentage of trouble makers

It is not right to judge us students before you have even spoken to us about what we think of the school. I personally spend quite a bit of time on the Genat estate and I can tell you that not many of the pupils that live there are actually bad people I know this because I have friends who live there. Don’t judge the States Schools before you have even looked properly at the Colleges such as Blanchelande, Ladies or Elizabeth College.

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110

backinajiffy

As in all jobs, there are a few teachers who are in the job to earn a living, but in my school, we have many who take a real pride in their work.

We are under strict rules not to see pupils suspended or excluded and so much of our time is spent doing social work and trying to limit damage and bullying.

Things will not change until we are permitted to run our lessons with order and structure.

It is not SMT that are to blame, they only carry out instruction from above.

Maybe, now this information has hit the news, we will see some backing, which will bring back the joy of teaching to teachers and the pride in students which is lacking in so many.

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112

Mr lloyd

Parent A

So you would like a letter going in the press saying “look how good we used to be” and you think this will raise morale??

Drangonslayer

It appears working hard for the grades that you struggled with stood you in good stead for the working world and helped you develop the ethic to succeed. Plus I thought you said that you got highter in the rest, so it appears given your success post GCSE that your results are a fair reflection of your ability and worth ethic.

Your initial critisism seemed to be based on the fact that below a C isnt deemed a pass in the real world. Well regardless of this, any employer that sees 8 E’s on a CV is going to favour 8 D’s, and then 8 C’s and so on. So it doesnt really matter what is termed a pass because the end result is the same. Unless your critiscism is that you dont beleive pupils should be differentiated between in any way.

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114

Steve-O

E

We are looking at the colleges too….. Over 90% pass vs 12%

Wheres the problem then E?

If it isnt the school or your classmates as you say? Why are only 12% of you passing?

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116

Student of La Mare

I am a student at La Mare De Carteret High School and I am currently studying in my final year.
The pass rate for the last year 11′s was 12%, this is due to the fact that they did not have a high academic ability and did not have the motivation even though the school provided many incentives to drive them towards the A*-C bracket. However the current Year 11 has the determination and the full support of the teaching staff and we feel as a year group that we have the capability to achieve a lot more than 12%. Our pass rate for this year has been predicted much higher so we feel that the Guernsey Press has misrepresented these statistics as they have implied that these results are currently being attained but in actual fact were last years results.
On the other hand ‘yes’ there are a small handful of unwilling students who are underachieving but this should have no effect on the other students but this happens at every school, you will always have a handful of ‘trouble makers’. But it is not right for the press to focus on the ‘trouble makers’ this is just having a negative attitude towards Education. The public, press, and the Education Department should have a positive attitude and contribute towards turning these bad statistics around.

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118

Gilthead

Student of La Mare – an eloquent post so there is hope! And the very best of luck to you and the other students.

However, there is a trend of decline and this cannot be ignored – as Education and Mrs Steere have found out. And not just La Mare. Also why are the results at Beaucamps so much better than LM and SSH?

This is what most posters find hard to reconcile coupled with the deceit from Education.

Taking into account your assertion that this past year was not that academically able it is still surprising that only 12% reached what is classified as an acceptable standard (pass rate).

Given the somewhat devisive nature of the Guernsey selective system I still don’t think that a pass rate (A* to C) of 30 to 40 percent that Beaucamp acheive is unrealistic for the other High Schools.

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120

Anonymous

Thank you GM for your final paragraph – it really is a minority of parents, most are very supportive in their child’s studies and behaviour both in and out of the classroom. We simply need support for the children who cannot manage in a class – there are many who are clearly unable to cope with a curriculum. As another post pointed out, learning vocational studies would be of more benefit. Places like the Link and Le Murier are excellent, but give them more staff and more funding so they can accept more children and our classrooms would be about education rather than behaviour management.

PS – 8am – 6pm Monday to Friday (including lunch as 4 out of 5 lunches I hold extra-curricular groups), 2 hours a night Monday – Friday, and Sunday afternoons in school. It’s the only way I can keep on top of planning and assessment, and I am quite happy to do the work, it was the “straw that broke the camel’s back” when reading that teacher’s don’t work hard! I think we need to work better, not harder, to achieve success, and to do that we need support for some of our children.

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122

Green

Re Gilthead comment
Les Beaucaamps was the only High School that was not effected by the closing of St Peter Port School. St Sampsons took in the students that had come from the Amherst catchment and LMDC took the students that went to Vauvert. It is only fair to judge these schools once the cohort of students that were unaffected by the closure of St Peter Port reaches GCSE age which is the current Yr 11 cohort. I worry that people are forming judgements without knowing the full story.

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124

Hello

We could have the cream of crop down here in these islands if only we didn’t tell them that we only want them for 5 years and then send them on their way… How many awesome educators are put off by this policy and choose to take their careers elsewhere?

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126

another parent

@Parent 2011

I quite agree. All this focus on La Mare, but look at St Sampson’s as well. The results are going downwards – quickly. I think part of the problem is the hew Headmistress – Mrs Bolt.

My child tells me they never see her around school. When I’ve been to the school she’s not available. She does not sort out the bad behaviour.

I’ve also repeatedly brought up the homework issue – hardly any is ever set. When you complain, it increases for a bit, then stops again. The school does not have high enough expectations of its pupils, my child is coasting at the school and the Head does not care.

When I googled her, I saw that her previous school in England was closed down.

That school needs to start expecting more from the children. I don’t think 35% would be high enough, they can do better.

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128

pupil

i am a pupil of La Mare, our school is not as bad as everyone is saying, the press have not said anything about the good bits about our school or the pupils who have got a’s,b’s and c’s they have only said the bad bits. our school might not be the best school on the island, but at the end of the day we all aim for the best of our abilities. so what if we are not the best school, we all try and work hard.

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130

GM

Unruly and disruptive children at the Grammar or Colleges can be and do get expelled. The threat is a real one, and as the state has a duty to educate, the expelled child ends up at one of the secondary schools.

But what happens to unruly and disruptive children at the secondary schools? There is nowhere for them to go if they are expelled. There is therefore no real likelihood of expulsion and the kids know it. They are left to further disrupt lessons and the teachers are left with an unsolvable problem.

Sadly, a lot of the cause can be attributed to the breakdown in society today, rather like the recent uK riots with kids as young as 9 taking part and the parents neither knowing nor caring where their children are or what they are up to. Its not quite as bad as that here (yet), but how many parents show a real interest in their child in the evenings? Far easier to let them hang out on the estate or street corners with other unruly kids or play on their X Box rather than supervise their homework which means missing out on a pint at the pub.

The harsh reality is that if a feral society is allowed to exist around the home environment, then those kids are not going to suddenly accept a disciplined environment at school. The secondary schools, being at the bottom of the society food chain, are left with the problem and have no tools available to deal with it.

But its always been like this. The same schools have always had the bad estates in their catchment area. The difference today is that the schools are not allowed to discipline the children and parents do not play any part in taking responsibility for the actions of their unruly children. Until that changes, how can the position improve? Maybe for once Guernsey should not blindly follow “UK practice” and should make parents fully responsible for their childrens’ behaviour at school. Then and only then will teachers be able to get on and teach those who actually want to learn.

If you think its bad now, wait another 15 years until today’s uncontrollable kids have teenagers of their own in the education system. Can you honestly see them taking any interest in how their own kids fare at English and Maths? Not a chance.

Its no wonder that those who can afford it will bust a gut to pay to send their children to schools where these problems barely exis and, if they arise, can easily be addressed by expulsion.

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132

Georgia

To Teach

I have rarely read such a self serving piece of analysis as the one you served up at yesterday.

It is only because of the determination of many in this forum, the press and other like minded people that this appalling state of affairs has come to light.

There has been a massive failure on the part of the Secondary Schools aided and abetted by the Education Department as the Chief Minister now admits. All sections of the educational establishment have sought to cover this up to cover their own backs. The senior Civil Servants in the Education Departments and the Headmasters at these schools should tender their resignations.

After that their next step should be to issue an open apology to the Island. It is absolutely necessary to acknowledge a failing in order to change behaviour. You seem merely interested in trotting out excuses. It is precisely that attitude that has caused the problem in the first place.

All teachers should be made subject to performance criteria which requires them to deliver an acceptable pass rate for the subjects they teach or face dismissal.

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134

Dan

Georgia
We do have performance management criteria. Also States are putting pressure on us for every child to make progress of two steps a year or a level every two years. It is not that we are sitting on our laurels thinking “Oh well, so and so hasn’t made the grade, never mind.”

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136

Ray

GM

One good thing which might come out of the proposed debate on Carol Steere’s resignation is that hopefully the true facts will emerge.She surely won’t risk getting caught out lying

IF those facts are still as obviously damning as we all think they are then we will be able to discover which of the Deputies still support her by way of the old pals act rather than looking after the good of the Island

Any Deputy who is not 100% in it for the good of the Island shouldn’t be a Deputy beyond next April

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138

Roy Gueno

I will still be voting Carol Steere, Frank Quinn and the Swarm of locusts.

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140

Parents

With two very defensive Mare students in my house, this week has been spent churning over these figures. Every time I come back to the same problem of a meaningless comparison to the UK. Collectively our High Schools don’t even see the top 35% of students (expected to gain 5 A*-Cs including English and Maths), nor even the top 40% (25% going to Grammar & gaining College scholarships & another 15% going to the colleges having sat & passed the entrance exam). So presuming the Colleges and Grammar are doing their bit by UK standards & gaining 100% A* -Cs with the top end, even our poorest figures would take the ‘pass’ rate up to 52%. Surely this is to be congratulated?
Prior to GCSEs, the ‘brighter’ students took O levels, whilst many students would have sat CSEs. The lower grades of GCSEs were supposed to replace these, giving all pupils the chance to demonstrate what they could achieve. Sadly, the lower grades are not now being respected as such and it is probably more beneficial to the students who find GCSE too difficult to follow an adult numeracy or literacy programme. And there’s no shame in that -how many writers in this column have looked at a maths GCSE paper recently? It’s harder than you may think!
Looking at the GCSE options available to students at La Mare, Ken Wheeler seems to be a strong supporter of appropriate alternative qualifications, but please give him a chance- he’s barely begun!
The press and certain members of the public should be ashamed of teaming up with those politicians wishing to attack the education department. They and the chief minister should have a proper look at the figures in the context of the entire Guernsey system and be prepared to eat humble pie by congratulating all our schools and their students.
Why has Beaucamps seem to have done so much better than the other high schools? Do you know the levels of this cohort of students when they entered the school at Year 7? Or which primary schools fed the grammar & colleges 5 years before? Or how many paid College places were taken from each catchment? No? nor do I.

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142

ex teacher

According to Carol Steere, Ken Wheeler ‘turned round’ St Peter Port School before it closed- yes she was right, he introduced the ‘one-way system’ in the corridors and the new car parking system in the playground!

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144

Georgia

Real Statistics Only?

If you include all the 11 plus successful children (at the Colleges (not fee payers) and the GS) and assume 100% of them would get 5 GCSEs, the Guernsey state system AS A WHOLE STILL underperforms the UK at around 45% against 53%. Ms Steere choose to distort the figures in her answer by including the privately paid children at the Colleges who do very well.

Further, if you put the successful 11 plus kids into a comprehensive system, their pass rate would fall dragging the averages down again.

So why does the State sector in Guernsey underperform the UK? It clearly isn’t because of less wealth or more social problems or less money spent on the schools than in the UK or, for the reasons above, the 11 plus. That, to my mind, leaves one major factor – teaching.

I didn’t pass the 11 plus, nor did any members of my family, but that didn’t stop me and every one of them attending Russell Group Universities and leaving them with 2:1′s or better.

We were no more or less intelligent that most of the kids at these schools. These children should be being told by their teachers that they should EXPECT to get those sort of educational outcomes and be told that the teachers will ensure they are given every opportunity to achieve them.

The headmasters must ensure that policies are adopted to make sure that happens including setting, marking and enforcing 2/3 hours of homework per night and at least 2 formal written exams per year – as they do at LC/EC. They must also stamp out bullying (which occurs directly on their watch)

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146

Medium G

Real statistics only – the problem is if you start looking at like for like statistics in the UK, such as in Kent. There, they have 25% of children going to Grammar Schools, and yet their secondary schools average around 45% pass rates (A to C) including English and Maths.

I do not doubt that there are solutions to the problem being worked on, but it is not helpful to try to argue that there is not a problem.

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148

Town Dweller

If the High Schools were achieving 40-50% pass rates in Maths and English Ms Steere would be plumping up her feathers and pushing out her chest and rolling in the success of her forthright, strategic policy.

As it stands Ms Steere is praying her over-sized sunglasses will be suffice to hide behind and get her through this management debacle.

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150

Another concerned

An interesting comment by Carole Steer on the phone in was that parents who fee pay for their children to go to the colleges ‘have an interest in making sure that they are well educated’. As tax payers, are not all the concerned parents on this blog only trying to do simply that?
Ms Steere also said that year 7 was about building self esteem in the students.
What about those of us who have spent the last 10-11 years encouraging our children, teaching them respect, teaching them right from wrong, lovingly pushing them to work hard and to do everything to the best of their ability – I am not prepared to sacrifice all of that to let my child have that self esteem knocked out of her by disruptive, bullying, uninterested students.
What is it with our States? They took away the school dental service so I now have to pay for my child to have treatment. When I approached one deputy his response was ‘we never sent our children to the school dentist anyway’.
Now they have taken away funding for the colleges, so now I will have to mortgage everything and sacrifice all if I want my child to get an equal chance at a a decent education (which I am willing to do as my child means everything to me).
There seems to be a growing class divide which is being fed by the attitude and actions of our States(not just Education)- who are themselves ‘bullied’ by some of the wealthy (imported) element in our society.
Let us get back to being proud of our island differences – proud of our young people (there are plenty of examples) and give those who want to learn, but maybe at 10 years old find a ‘selection exam’ rather daunting, a level playing field.
As many have said, it begins with discipline – no respect taught at home carries in to school. No interest breeds feelings that no one else is interested in them. Examples of aggressive behaviour from parents to get their way – kids follow thinking that is the way it is done. Lets do our part and try to get things better and not expect everyone else to clear up the mess.

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152

Retired teacher

Is mr wheeler really studying the exam statistics in detail? Surely that is his job. He needs to ask:

1 Exactly which subjects are worse this year And did any subjects actually do better?
2 How well did ex St Peter port pupils do and is this significant in relation to the final results?

He needs to know In detail where the problems are in order to deal effectively with them. You should be earning your pension and high salary.

Ex- teacher. Your comment about mr wheeler turning S P P school around speaks volumes. Well done

Ex teacher —- I love your comment about turning st Peter port school around. It speaks volumes.

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154

Ryan

It would be very interesting to compare the Guernsey Grammar results with the UK Grammar Schools. Are these results available?

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156

Suspicious Mind

Anyone else notice the ad for a “States education improvement manager” £60k p.a. which appeared on gov.gg yesterday?

How convenient.

1 Guernsey Press headline = 1 new pointless middle manager in the States

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