Call for an external review of Education
Thursday 29th September 2011, 10:45AM BST.
EDUCATION should be forced to undergo a rigorous external inspection after information it was required to release showed two of Guernsey’s high schools are failing to meet standards set in England.
Deputy Jane Stephens (pictured) called for the review after Education finally disclosed individual school stats showing how many students from the three high schools achieved five GCSEs at C or above including maths and English – the benchmark used in England.
While the target pass rate in England is 35% – soon to be increased to 50% – La Mare De Carteret and St Sampson’s fell well below that figure.
Only 12% of La Mare students gained benchmark grades this year, 20% of St Sampson’s pupils did – Les Beaucamps achieved a 37% pass rate.
- Read the full story in the Guernsey Press. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
Surely that’s the whole point? The standards apply to England, not Guernsey where the top 25% of pupils don’t go to High schools but attend the Grammar School or Colleges instead? If we had a comprehensive system as England does and those higher-ability (as determined by the 11+ process) were not separated, it seems likely that our High schools would comfortably hit, and in some cases exceed by a signifcant margin, the 35% and 50% targets.
Report abuse
I is went to shcool and Geurnsey and I did well.
I can now get a job in the finannce industry and can wead and rite properrly. No problemmo.
Report abuse
About Time.
Report abuse
35% as a target pass rate!!! That in its self is a disgusting target. Shouldn’t it be up around 65%+? I’ve never heard of an exam with a pass mark that low. Well done Les Beaucamps though for your pass rate of(drum roll)- wait for it…37%!!! You must be thrilled..well done.
Report abuse
This is a shocking figure to me. If my child attended these schools I would worry for their future.
Unfortunately as with many public sector jobs theres not enough accountability. I’d dock those in charge’s pay until standards improve
I would like to see the trend of this result if it is rising or falling
Report abuse
“If” “likely”
Do you work for the Education department?
Report abuse
guernsey is the uk its time peeps accepted some facts
Report abuse
With a little research there are some things that can be done (rather than just blaming the results on aestehtics!)
Looking at the US ‘No Child Left Behind Act’ there are some bits and pieces which might work…
Brief summary:
No Child Left Behind requires all government-run schools receiving federal funding to administer a state-wide standardized test annually to all students. This means that all students take the same test under the same conditions. The students’ scores determine whether the school has taught the students well. Schools which receive Title I funding through the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 must make Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) in test scores (e.g. each year, its fifth graders must do better on standardized tests than the previous year’s fifth graders).
If the school’s results are repeatedly poor, then steps are taken to improve the school.
• Schools that miss AYP for a second consecutive year are publicly labeled as being “in need of improvement” and are required to develop a two-year improvement plan for the subject that the school is not teaching well. Students are given the option to transfer to a better school within the school district, if any exists.
• Missing AYP in the third year forces the school to offer free tutoring and other supplemental education services to struggling students.
• If a school misses its AYP target for a fourth consecutive year, the school is labelled as requiring “corrective action,” which might involve wholesale replacement of staff, introduction of a new curriculum, or extending the amount of time students spend in class.
• A fifth year of failure results in planning to restructure the entire school; the plan is implemented if the school fails to hit its AYP targets for the sixth year in a row. Common options include closing the school, turning the school into a charter school, hiring a private company to run the school, or asking the state office of education to run the school directly.
The act requires states to provide “highly qualified” teachers to all students. Each state sets its own standards for what counts as “highly qualified”. Similarly, the act requires states to set “one high, challenging standard” for its students. Each state decides for itself what counts as “one high, challenging standard,” but the curriculum standards must be applied to all students, rather than having different standards for students in different cities or other parts of the state.
Ok so would need some tweeking to work over here maybe not annual tests but base it on just the GCSE results, however, the building blocks are there.
Interesting how the smaller of the three schools is the one with the best results. Does the bigger schools still have the same ratio of teachers to students? Is the management structure within the bigger schools sufficient? As well as looking at the classes/teaching standards themselves how are the teachers and students kept motivated? There needs to be more transparency within Education. At the moment it’s all rather cloak and dagger and that simply won’t do.
Report abuse
I think guernsey should allow the uk to take over the education system,its time we had modern and robust ideas instead of the old school out dated ideas and methods of this rock in the sea,after all guernsey is the uk so lets get some uk ideas into the islands,BEFORE ITS TO LATE
Rule Britannia
Report abuse
Guernsey needs to stop dreaming that it’s a country and just let the UK run it completely. It would be a far more robust and modern system. Guernsey is living in the past with old ideas. It needs a modern system like the UK, a perfect system with good public sector services and excellent management at all levels.
Who agrees? As part of the UK it should benefit from UK ideas any way, it’s a real shame Guerns seem to get it wrong every time.
Ben
Report abuse
Ed – no, I don’t and I certainly wouldn’t like to at the moment!
Report abuse
Guernsey does need to get over itself slightly here- you are STILL part of the U.K, you are DEPENDENT on certain things from the U.K. That means that in the eyes of the Law you are still accountable for certain things. That includes an Education Standard that falls in line with U.K guidelines and pass rates,NOT as it appears the pass rate of Eritrea or Mauritania that Guernsey has at the moment.
Questor
“Surely that’s the whole point? The standards apply to England, not Guernsey where the top 25% of pupils don’t go to High schools but attend the Grammar School or Colleges instead? If we had a comprehensive system as England does and those higher-ability (as determined by the 11+ process) were not separated, it seems likely that our High schools would comfortably hit, and in some cases exceed by a signifcant margin, the 35% and 50% targets.”
Where do you think that the TOP performers from England go for those that can pay for it? Oh,that’s right ETON or RUGBY or some other similar PRIVATE school that can be paid for. Those that can’t afford to pay for it go to a State funded school such as a “Comprehensive”. JUST because the schools over here don’t have the word Comprehensive in the title does NOT mean they aren’t one. So the Under-classes that go to a Comprehensive School STILL perform and pass 5 or more G.C.S.E’s at a pass rate of higher than 35%.
I think you need to go find a dusty copy of a dictionary and look the word “Comprehensive” up,or, I can save you the effort>
Adj. Comprehensive – including all or everything; “comprehensive coverage”; “a comprehensive history of the revolution”; “a comprehensive survey”; “a comprehensive education”
You need to GET OVER yourself as being a Donkey, after all Donkey’s are typically Stubborn and Stupid. Time to accept that Exclusivity alone won’t change things or make things better.
Report abuse
I agree with blow in boy. If 40% of the so-called top pupils go to Colleges or Grammar that leaves the bottom 60% going to OUR secondary school-a sad fact. If you want a pass RATE of 50%, then 60% times 10%, equates to an expected pass rate of only 6%. Strange as it may seem these are secondary modern schools and as such most of the pupils would never have taken the old o’level, but CSEs. In context as Deputy Steere said, perhaps not the disaster Deputy Stephens would have us believe.What was her motive anyway? Did she not discuss this with the school heads first before shaming our teachers and pupils?I feel there is something more here in Deputy Stephens’ actions than meets first reading.Anyone know her?
Report abuse
Questor is correct these figures are not fairly comparable. To be fair we would have to include the grades of all the Grammer School pupils that fall within the catchments of the High school they would have attended without selection at 11.
Report abuse
Ok so its not fair to compare a Guernsey secondary school to a UK Comprehensive as the ability range of the pupils is different. That doesn’t prevent comparison between the 3 Guernsey secondary schools. Why has one managed twice the pass rate of the other?
Report abuse
guernsey is not part of the u.k.
can’t you lot at least do your homework?
Report abuse
lynnie
and you are using the U.S.A. as an example. wow!
what’s wrong with Finland,
Sweden and Norway? Much better results there.
Ben ever heard of “broken Britain”?
someblerk
“o” levels had a pass rate of less than 50% what planet are you on? your post is a joke just like you.
Report abuse
Guernsey isn’t the UK. the UK doesn’t want Guernsey! if you want to be part of the UK pay your way! say income tax and VAT!
Go and join finland, sweden and norway. I’m sure that will enjoy your tax dodging too!
Report abuse
kevin
its time you went back to school
guernsey is part of THE UK
Rule Britannia
Report abuse
pbfalla: I think you should do your homework:
“Although its defence is the responsibility of the United Kingdom,[2] the Bailiwick of Guernsey is not part of the UK; and while it participates in the Common Travel Area, it is not part of the European Union.”
Guernsey is not part of the UK, it’s a British Crown Dependency of the UK.
Maybe it’s time you went back to school.
Report abuse
Kevin, why not use look at the US? Why not research Finland, Sweden et al? The US was one example. We could look at what other countries do, see how it works for them and adapt it to Guernsey. The US plan was drafted due to similar poor educational results, therefore it’s a good starting block and Guernsey could probably put together a solid educational strategy basing some key parts on the current US policy. However there may equally be some good pointers within other countries. The US scheme was brought in just 10 years ago so relatively modern. Other countries may well have excellent academia which results from years of adapting and resourcing the right strategy, therefore may not be a fit for where Guernsey currently is.
Report abuse
Toto
guernsey is part of the uk
Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to step out of the box
Rule Britannia
Report abuse
Think about how the students feel, being judged by the media, when they have no idea what happens each day at La Mare De Carteret High. I have been a student at this school now for 5 years, and it’s a good school, full of good teachers, but the media don’t realise this. It’s unfair on the community of our school.
Report abuse
Toto
Your dumber than i thought
Firstly you copy and paste from wiki then you confirm what im telling you in your next sentence.
Rule Britannia
guernsey is owned by the uk
peeps time to accept the facts
Report abuse
pbfalla
Not sure about stepping out of the box. I’d rather you step into one and nail down the lid. In fact I’ll help you.
You are completely and utterly factually wrong in saying that we are part of the UK.
Report abuse
Student of LMDC
I agree. The school and its pupils should not be unfairly judged due to Ms Jane Stephen’s insistence of bringing questionable statistics out into the open. I can understand why Ms Steere was protective in relation to the release of these figures. I can also see how the 11+ system and other factors make it impossible to fairly compare the results of Guernsey states schools against UK schools. I hope the media will balance their reports for the sake of LMDCs reputation.
Report abuse
Martin
guernsey is owned by the crown which in turn is the uk.so when someone owns you,this makes you part of them,does it not ?
The crown does not give you uk priveliges,so your neither a country in its own right,simply owned by the crown which owns uk also
simples PEEPS
Rule Britannia
Report abuse
@pbfalla: I’d have the Queen as my Monarch any day. Giggidy goo.
Report abuse
Parent A
How on earth are these statistics questionable?
So do they not have pay schools in the UK with very high pass rates?? Most also offer scholarships for high acheivers.
Whether you like the statistics or not, it is possible to directly compare our high schools with the UK, to state otherwise is frankly burying your head in the sand.
And given the fact that this is such a nice island with a comparitively high standard of living for even the poorest Guernsey children, you could even argue that actually its unfair to compare the UK schools against our high schools given the massive social problems faced in innercities and the bulk of the mainland.
You think we have a benefit culture here?? You want to step onto a sink estate in the mainland where you have a 3rd generation of benefit claimers approaching GCSE age, these kids can be written off (and are) because they have no ambition, no role models, they dont want to try, why, because their parent(s) hasnt had to. And even for the ones that do want to try, whats the point, they cannot afford university and the jobs arent there for them, they know this. Yet their schools have higher targets than us.
We have no such issues here other than a couple of moderately dodgy estates, even the worst performers who want to work after school will more than likely have the oppurtunity in comparatively nice jobs, and maybe thats the problem. We have the oppurtunity and the money to make our educations results envied, but instead of this we fail our children and worse, we have apologists for this failure. GCSE’s arent the preserve of academics, thats what A-Levels and higher education are for, remember the “G” stands for “General” no “Genius”, these schools should be looking at 40-50% as a bare minimum.
Student of LMDC
I’m glad you have pride for your school, but the populace is not getting all riled up for the sake of it you know! Beleive it or not, the anger is because people have your best interests at heart, you think your environment is good, well we want it better for you and the statistics show that you are being let down and that HAS to stop.
Report abuse
pbfalla
Not sure if you are deliberately trying to provoke but the UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We are part of the British Isles and Great Britain. Our rights to govern ourselves were given to us by the Duke of Normandy.
The UK exam results are an average of all the schools. Previously Education have only permitted us to have “Guernsey school averages”. However, when the colleges are producing 100% or close to that number, it did not need a mathematician to figure out that the High Schools had to be significantly below this performance figure.
The important thing now is that with this information in the public domain, what is going to be done to rectify the problem? Resignation (and no-re-election) of the current political board and a rigorous examination of the administration and teaching will provide the opportunity to start afresh and give our children more hope for the future. Poor performance cannot be tolerated, be it in the teaching or the administration of our education services.
Employers first look to examniation results to determine a candidates suitability. With many international employers in the Island, high educational standards are essential to attract business to Guernsey.
Report abuse
Dave Haslam
OK I see what you are saying. It doesn’t look good I agree but i have not yet made my mind up about all the reasons given which contribute to the poor results – and there are quite a few factors. Therefore to me the statistics are questionable.
My main point was that Ms Steere was right to be concerned that releasing these figures would cause the school and its pupils to be unfairly judged. This is exactly what seems to be happening and this is surely adding to the failings being experienced by the pupils.
Report abuse
Stephen Fell
Pea Brain Falla is a troll, just ignore him like most of us do.
I bet he gets all excited when someone responds to his posts.
Report abuse
stephen fell
the average for u.k schools is all state schools. we should be comparing our high school figure against comprehensives in the u.k. minus thier top 27% of achievers. they would go to college or grammar here. by the way when compared to all private schools in the u.k. neither of the colleges here came out well in fact they were both in the bottom third despite getting funding the u.k. schools don’t.
perhaps we should transfer all of our colleges tutors to the high schools and then we will see if they can produce better results. I don’t think so. do you?
lynnie
we could well look at all of the countries you suggest( all have higher education standards than us except the u.s.). unfortunately non of them have selection at 11 we do and the heirarchy here won’t change so what’s the point?
Report abuse
stephen fell
who owns guernsey and were are they based
Report abuse
Kevin
I must be missing something. Ladies College rate was 100% and Elizabeth College was 98%. How can those statistics place them in the bottom third? Please explain.
Pbfalla
No one “owns” Guernsey. We are a self-governing Crown Dependency which Britain is obliged to defend and protect as a result of our historic allegiance to the Crown. Read your history books. The UK, Great Britain and the Crown are not one and the same thing. There are subtle differences which are very relevant to our status. Look it up. If we were part of the UK as you allege then we would all be paying UK tax, VAT would be officially applied to everything, we would all have a vote at Westminster, we would have no housing law restrictions and would have no offshore finance industry. We don’t have any of those.
Stop trolling and get a life. Even better, get on with leading that exodus.
Report abuse
Will someone please clarify, in laymans terms, how the statistics presented have been reached. The press has constantly done so but it would appear that many have chosen to ignore them.
The successful pass rate is calculated on those that pass both english and maths. It doesn’t mean that they failed the lot.
I studied at La Mare De Carteret and I achieved at GCSE 8 qualifications. 6 at A grade (I’m far too old for A*) and 1 at B grade. I was delighted with my results, BUT I failed maths. I got an E. Therefore instantly according to the way these statistics have been gathered I would have been relegated to those considered a failure.
I went on to do my A Levels, take my degree and then undertake professional qualifications. Not bad for a complete failure that received a poor education.
I am astounded by Lyndon Trott’s reaction to this. Surely he has taken the time to read the statistics carefully and consider his response?
His reaction is completely disrespectful to the education minister and her team, all teachers and even more so the pupils.
Imagine having your hard work denounced as poorly conducted, not acceptable and way below acceptable standards.
As a daughter of a teacher and a friend of several teachers in primary and secondary education, I have seen how hard the teaching staff work and their dedication to their pupils. Particuarly as these days teachers appear to be expected to not only educate, but provide a counselling service for pupils, demonstrate extraordinary administration skills, regularly re-educate themselves in accordance with ever evolving teaching practices and national curriculum.
I think the students who received their results this year must be feeling pretty flat as are the teachers. Please consider these statistics a little closer Mr Trott and think before you speak. May be it should our Chief Minister that is tendering his resignation.
Report abuse
Kevin
How can The Ladies’ College possibly be in ‘the bottom third’ (of what by they way, you didn’t say!?) when it consistently gains a 100% pass rate in GCSEs?
What worries me is that when the GCSE results are published in the UK and invariably the pass rate has improved overall for yet another year, we have to read accusations from so-called education experts that this is to be expected as GCSEs have been ‘dumbed down’. Our High School pupils have taken those same ‘dumbed down’ GCSEs and results are getting worse – how can that be?
Report abuse
GM
lots of other schools got better grades. sorry!
neither colleges made the top 200 private schools according to the Telegraph private schools listings indeed both colleges wer comprehensively beaten (please excuse the pun) by a lot of state comprehensives.
of private schools Elizabeth College was ranked 235th and Ladies college was ranked 231st at gcse. Both hardly “uprooting trees”.
out of 342 private schools EC was ranked 241st but the Ladies College was 110th for a level.
so although ladies college did well at a level (very commendable) i stand by what I said ref gcse.
Report abuse
GM
Elizabeth College are in the bottom third of private schools for A level results. Make of that what you will. Ladies College are bottom of the top third. Most private schools are not in the statistics for GCSEs because they’re offering International GCSEss which don’t count towards the 5 GCSES inc English & Maths. I’ve got 10 grade A GCSEs but a D in Maths so I’m a failure based on the current mark of success.
Report abuse
GM – Kevin means that they are in the bottom third when comparing to private schools in the UK. But I think perhaps he could be referring to overall performance as how can a 100% result be in the bottom third? Doesn’t make sense does it? All of these threads are about GCSE results. I’d like to see the reference for the LC 100% GCSE result being in the bottom third just to check…. but I doubt there is one.
Kevin – Many countries have “selective schools” which are based on exams similar to the 11+. Its not unique to Guernsey you know. Hilarious that you think it is. Also you will find that most if not all private schools will a have scholarship system – some rightly or wrongly even have additional scholarships for entry at age 5.
When the suggestion is made to study other countries to see what’s working and see if any positive strategies can be implemented here, Kevin says “whats the point?” Nice attitude. Its precisely this head in the sand, insular attitude, which has us in this position in the first place. Whatever the UK is doing it is working and it needs to be studied – their results haven’t increased by doing nothing you know. Lynnies ideas are excellent. Other countries education systems must be studied so that we can follow their lead, learn, grow and better our education system here in Guernsey for the future.
Bring on the review, Education should embrace it and use the results as an opportunity to improve it’s services.
Report abuse
GM
lots of other schools got better grades sorry.
of private schools EC was rated 235th LC rated 231 and at a level EC was rated 241 and ladies college a very creditable 110
these are out of 342 listed.
Pardon the pun but a lot of comprehensives comprehensively out performed the colleges also. So in answer to your question you were missing something A big fish in a small pond perhaps.
getting back to high schools let’s hope that when all the fuss has settled we get a thourough investigation of what has gone wrong and a road map of action to get the high schools back to where they should be.
Report abuse
Kevin
All of the stats that are relevant here are the GCSE ones, not the A Level ones. The latter are completely irrelevant to this debate as the secondary schools whose results are being scrutinised do not offer A Levels. Ladies College at 100% and Elizabeth College at 98% cannot be anywhere other than at the top or at least equal top of any GCSE tables.
You seem to be either deliberately or accidentally muddying the waters instead of keeping the thread on track.
Report abuse
Kevin, I’m unsure exactly where you’re getting your ‘facts’. Didn’t you say your son was a teacher? So are you getting this all just from him without looking at things yourself? Your posts are disjointed and don’t make much sense. I wouldn’t know if the US exam results are comparable with ours or the UK as it’s a different examination and therefore different pass rates. What I do know is that the results have improved nearly year on year since they brought the Act in.
As I previously said, this isn’t about looking at which country produces the best exam results but rather looking at the country’s which have had a problem and have turned things or are in the process of turning things around – which policy has worked for them and how. Guernsey is floundering, there isn’t a strategy as far as I know. However, that’s part of the problem. We don’t know. Whatever strategy/policy is implemented it should be transparent. Sticking our head in the sand with the defeatist attitude of ‘there’s no point as we have an 11+ system’ is not very productive and luckily you’re not education minister otherwise I would be calling for your resignation too.
Report abuse
lynnie my son is a teacher but believe it or not I was educated at the grammar school so i am very capable of looking things up for myself and despite what you say I wouldn’t hold the u.s.a. up as a classic exmple either.what i do know is that countries like the scandinavians who do not have selection do better than us and we could learn from them. also the u.s.a. doesn’t have selection either. Lynnie you make yourself look stupid by thinking I need to consult my son do yourself a favour and clamber down off your high horse.
GM,Rachel,
As stated its the GRADES that count because everyone or nearly every one passes for your info the stats I gave were, I’ll repeat it, from the Telegraph listings which neither of you have even bothered to check it would appear that you can’t accept that the mighty colleges here are not that good when stacked up against private u.k. schools thier ranking of 235 and 231 are for GCSE marks GM you really must do better as it was you who brought the colleges into this thread.
Report abuse
Muso Bird
Thank you for such a refreshing comment. Surely real life examples of peoples success is a better measure of a school than statistics.
After all in a school were 65% of pupils succeed in Maths and 65% of pupils succeed in English, only 30% might have succeeded in both English and Maths.
Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh!
Report abuse
Stats Stats Stats
“Lies damn lies and statistics”
Quite….
http://25squaremiles.blogspot.com/2011/09/this-is-what-i-call-like-for-like.html
Report abuse
Kevin, you’re such an angry man. I don’t know why you feel the need to pop up on the posts I comment on and argue the exact opposite to me. I have a feeling that you would argue black is white if I happened to be debating it. I mentioned your son as it would make sense to consult a family member who is more in the know about a subject matter. Your posts are just shots without any sort of back up as if someone told you ‘what about xxx’ and you’ve recalled it slightly but can’t remember the detail. The Telegraph list is a prime example which takes into account the percentage that received A*- A grades in their GCSE’s and not the overall pass rate which is what we’re debating here. You’re throwing things into the mix which no one is disputing but trying then to back up your argument of…what exactly? Ranking 231 and 235 out of 420 entries (not 342 as you suggested which IS the A level league table) and also 50 schools declined to take part so make that up to 470 which (let’s assume) the 50 who declined coming in lower than our percentages. But even then it’s actually not that bad. Nearly 100% in both schools passed their GCSE’s, of which over half of them in each school achieved either A* or A grade. But are league tables actually useful? Not to mention this is the league table for Private Schools which probably has more resources than the average Secondary. I’m not sure…in fact I’m not even sure the original stats are anything to go by but rather look at the education debate as a whole.
I’m not holding up the US as some sort of educational holy grail (I’ve explained that three times now so can only presume that you’re choosing to pick apart my posts rather than actually read them in their entirety).
Has anyone read the October Billet? There isn’t much mention of an Education strategy which is quite interesting in itself.
I went to St Sampson’s Secondary by the way, whilst we’re sharing
Report abuse
Kevin
The Your comment about the performance of the Colleges is entirely irrelevant because the point at issue is the performance of the High Schools.
However, for the record and to stop this thread being hijacked further by such an irrelevance, the Colleges don’t come out that great against the UK indepependent sector for GCSEs for a simple reason – they effectively don’t select 2/3rds of their intake whereas these schools select alll their pupils on pretty tough criteria. I would suggest significantly harder than the 11 plus. I also think there are many more independent schools than appear in the survey you mention. The FT survey for example includes many more.
What is the point of comparing them anyway with the likes of Eton, Westminster, St Pauls, City of London GS etc when everyone but everyone that goes to those sort of schools (in fact any in the top 100 to 200) has to take very difficult exam papers to get in (and I have seen quite a few of these papers) that an 11 plus kid from Amherst would not know how to even start. Then, even if they pass, they need to be from a family with the wealth that can afford to pay £20,000 minimum a year out of income taxed at 40% pr 50% (ie gross cost of circa £40,000 per child per year). Doesn’t sound much like the Colleges to me.
Further, what really matters to the UK independent sector (and indeed the Colleges) is A Level results and what Universities their pupils kids go to off the back of those results – because that is what parents who pay the fees really care about. To them, ranking independent schools on GCSE results is like trying to tell the winner of a 1 mile race after 1/2 a mile. GCSEs are simply taken for granted.
BTW: on that A level score the Colleges (despite being still non selective on 50% of their sixth form), do pretty well. LC (for example) get 87% on A* to B versus 72% UK independent school averages according to the UK Dept of Education (GS by the way is 51%).
Report abuse
lynnie
once again a condascending post from you. What a bossy woman you are talking down to all and sundry.you make daft comments like the one about my son and when challenged back track and try another explanation. your post is full of contradictions clearly not having done your honework. It was GM who introduced the colleges in to this debate. If you hadn’t gone off on one you would have noticed that both you and I are advocating a similar approach to improving the high schools that is looking at what is good elsewhere and taking the good bits on board.
Report abuse
I think Kevin might be Carol Steere in disguise.
Report abuse
can 25squaremiles keep posting on his / her blog page please!?
Report abuse
kevin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8UFqse–a8
Report abuse
nice try Rachel but wrong again.
I do however agree with what you said ref 11+ if we are to carry on using the 11+ it should be evaluated to see what effect if any it is having on childrens education.
Report abuse
I was trying to make you laugh Kev. Hope it worked.
Yes the 11+ should be evaluated as part of the overall review. If it is abolished (which i do not believe is necessary as it is not the real source of the problem) then the education department will need to come up with an equivalent suitable program for the gifted and talented or the standards of these students will drop. Bringing down the top will not increase the stats, rather it will lower them even further.
My understanding is that if you want to go to Grammar at any point during secondary school then you can reapply.
My gut feel is that removing the restrictions imposed on teachers from the top down, especially with regard to the amount of homework which can be set by teachers, will go a long way in improving grades. There’s no reason why the majority of comprehensive school students cannot cope with the same amount of homework as that set at Grammar. Parents can sign off on homework just like they do at Grammar. A hard line zero tolerance approach to bullying also needs be implemented. If the kids aren’t given the work and also feel safe to work as hard as they can (because of bullying) then how can they get the grades?
Report abuse
Mike
Kevin’s point isn’t totally irrelevant as it was part of a discussion that hinges around the debate that the Colleges are models of how to deliver education. Indeed it’s been suggested by some that the High Schools should replicate what the Colleges are doing in order to put things right. I’m sick of hearing that the Colleges here don’t select. Whenever the point about the College entrance exams is raised the reply is always something similar to ‘ah but it’s not the same thing’. Can anyone tell me what it’s actually for if it’s not to screen out those of lower ability? I actually agree with you when you argue what’s the point in comparing them to Westminster School etc. But by the same token there’s more point in doing that than comparing them to the High Schools. My opinion on all of this (whilst accepting that LMDC had terrible results) is that some children on this island are achieving beyond their potential at the expense of others- but that’s completely down to the system we have which creams off the top twice.
Report abuse
Certainly, the 11 plus system can be reviewed but, if it is, lets have an honest debate on the facts and not one clouded entirely by politics – which is the primarily siren call for the change here.
Fact 1 – even adding in the 11 plus successes at GS and the Colleges, the Guernsey State sector underperforms the UK, when on all normal measures should be beating it hands down. That suggests that something else is the primary problem.
Fact 2 – the 11 plus offers no explanation for the alarming gulf between Beaucamps and LM. That alone suggests a key problem at some of these schools may be teaching, there may be other problems.
Fact 3 – if you abolish it, you will likely drive the Colleges out of business forcing massive expenditures to accomodate 1000 or more pupils (as there is then no basis to pay the £4.5m grant they receive) – that gap is most unlikely to be filled from fees from the 650 or so private paying pupils who attend them, the only other source as fees will effectively have to double.
Some people say the Colleges would survive. They might survive, I doubt it. While that money will be saved by the States if they shut, the capex and the £8 million plus unit costs of accomodating them would significantly outweigh it.
Even, if they didn’t shut, you would still need to find alternative schools for the 350 or so scholarship kids who attend them now on the basis of the 11 plus. There is no capacity for them at 6th form level.
Fact 4 – while it is possible (unlikely on the numbers and performance we see in the State sector at present) that the results of those who don’t go to GS/Colleges will improve, it is almost certain that the results of the significant proportion of those that do and are then forced into a comprehensive system will deteriorate (as did the results of GS students forced into the comprehensive system in the UK when it was introduced). That deterioration could be, on the basis of current quality, very substantial.
So what is to be gained by such a change – a vague feeling that everyone is being treated the same, no one fails at 11 and some politicians feeling good about their principles. That is the kind of thinking that has lead to years of inaction by Ms Steere.
Surely the right approach is first to try to improve the results at the High Schools because the other alternative is massively risky, could be very expensive and there are no real grounds to suggest it will work. However that policy, if pursued, needs to be pursued ruthlessly given the current problems.
That is about making the necessary personnel changes now at the top of the system (Headmasters and Education Dept). I have yet to hear a convincing (or any logical) reason why they should stay.
Their replacements must set AND ENFORCE policies at the schools that deliver elsewhere and they should speak to those who run schools that do – Jo Riches at LC for example to see how she does it. That almost certainly means, among other things, greatly increased homework requirements, regular exams (twice yearly)and tests to identify weaknesses and correct them in all subjects and an absolute intolerance of any bullying and disruptive behaviour.
From now on these schools must only recruit outstanding teachers. Frankly, if a potential teacher at them can’t demonstrate an improving GCSE pass trend in the subjects he/she teaches and at least a 2:1 in that subject from a proper University (not a polytechnic by another name), no dice. That must be the very minimum required. Then they must ruthlessly weed out over time those that can’t or won’t cut it.
Then tell the kids in a whole variety of ways you are’t failures, if you are prepared to work you can and should expect to succeed and we as teachers will work our nuts off to help you do so and mean it. These children on average are no materially less intelligent than the fee payers at the Colleges who get good results.
They are also 11 year olds to whom teachers owe a duty – and still largely a blank canvass. While there have certainly been leadership failings, teachers at two of these schools have collectively failed in that duty. No one has the right to give up on these children or passively stand by and let them give up on themselves.
Report abuse
Georgia,
Good post.
This episode doesn’t mean that the 11+ has to be scrapped. Although I’m personally inclined to think it should be, that’s another matter. The point is the 11+ is not the main cause of the problems at hand.
Public confidence in the High Schools is critical to preventing wealther families from abandoning the States sector entirely. With that lost, we have an unstable situation: these families are likely to take their professional backgrounds and their aspirations elsewhere, and this is a cycle that is prone to feeding back into itself.
If we are going to operate the 11+ system without that happening, then the High Schools need to be seen to be performing well. Assurances from the Education Department that everything is fine will not be enough after what’s happened. The Board knew there were serious problems in March – fine. Then they took action – fine. Then people who have a right to know started asking what was wrong – they assured us everything is fine. It all inevitably comes out – kaboom.
From now on we need performance indicators and inspection reports commissioned and freely published by an independent body. And these have to show that the High Schools have solid GCSE results, opportunities in a wide curriculum, high participation in extra-curricular activities, good class discipline, low incidence of bullying, and students who go on to pursue A levels, degrees and professional qualifications just as much as vocational courses and apprenticeships.
Report abuse
Good post Georgia, whilst the 11 plus may not be perfect, exams and testing are a fact of life.
Some children may not succeed at this particular point in their school career, but there is plenty that they, with the support and encouragement of their parents, can do to succeed subsequently.
A lot of the present debate on the Education issue has sought to apportion blame on certain individuals, the 11 plus, lack of funding etc.
I think the current issues are caused by a cocktail of all these things, but I also think that a significant contributory factor is the example set at home. If parents/guardians have no respect for authority, then it is unlikely their offspring will toe the line either.
All too often we see reports in the paper of children being kept home by their parents because they don’t see why their poor little darlings should remove their hairband/nose-stud/piercing etc. If the school has rules, they should apply equally to all, and it shouldn’t matter whether a parent thinks they are pointless or not applicable in their case, otherwise what’s the point.
Schools/teachers are meant to act ‘in loco parentis’ during the school day. If the lead set by the parents is one of ‘do as you wish’ and stick two fingers up at authority, then the school and teachers don’t stand a chance.
That is one reason why parents who want to see their children make something of themselves consider the Grammar School and Colleges as more likely to achieve this.
Report abuse
careful what you say Georgia,
I know there were teachers (admittedly very few) at LMDC who had a 70% plus pass rate in thier subjects.
They are “hangin in there” to help the children.
After all where ever you work if a colleague is not performing does that mean you are not performing?
Report abuse
Georgia
I think to describe those calling for a review of the 11plus as a “siren call” (i.e a beguiling song that leads to shipwreck) perhaps demeans the legitimate voice of those who think that the validity of testing and sorting at age 10/11 needs to be revisited.
Re your last para., if at age 11 a child is still “largely a blank canvas” can we at least agree that selection at age 10/11 is questionable in its own right? I’m not saying that selection is bad but am asking whether 10/11 is the right age.
Also, as per your point 3 – the point advertised as a fact but so heavily caveated as not to be a fact at all :-) – you appear to be arguing that the Colleges need the entire cohort of 10/11 years olds to go through the annual 11plus machine to ensure their survival, then you are right, that is a political issue. That’s what politics means (i.e relating to the people).
I don’t believe the Colleges need the 11plus to survive. Over the years have been very good at providing educational services that people want and they will do so in the future. They do a good job and other ways can be found for state funding other than through the 11plus.
Report abuse
Georgia
The points you have raised are not facts merely your opinions. The education board has given detailed explanations of the statistics and you can read these in the news section of the education website.
I disagree with your ideas about raising teaching standards and so on only because I feel you do not understand the problem. For example :-
* Many pupils at the High schools would not respond to the same teaching methods of Ladies College. That school relies on a particular level of cohort to be able to implement its methods to achieve the desired results. I gather those students who do not meet a required standard would ultimately have to leave the school and enlist at a High school instead.
* The best teachers are selected from the pool of applicants who respond to a vacancy. Those applicants are likely to be teachers who are available and willing to teach a High school cohort of varied individuals with wide ranging abilities and needs and to whom the set salary scale on offer is acceptable. Recruitment problems and licensing issues for Guernsey is a separate news item which has been widely debated.
* I’m unsure how you would implement absolute intolerance of any bullying and disruptive behaviour. There would be a lot of troubled kids roaming the streets of Guernsey if you kicked them all out of school and they have a legal right to attend school and be taught.
I do agree with you in some ways for example I feel that the range of pupils overall are equally intelligent in a broad sense and therefore should have equal opportunities and similar expectations however this is an argument FOR abolishment of the 11+. This is also a separate debate.
I have been following all threads and there seems to be little evidence that past and present students of LMDC feel they are failures. For example my child is at LMDC and is doing OK handling any issues which might arise due to teaching standards, disruption and bullying issues.
Based on our experience and having closely followed this debate, my child is confident that with continued hard there is no reason why full potential wouldn’t be reached at LMDC. We feel it is a good school, capable of delivering expectations in line with any academic targets. It has some great teachers.
I would like to see more opportunity to do homework and other measures which could enhance progress and I would also like more details of the strategy for dealing with improper behaviour. Nevertheless I have confidence these specific issues are being carefully thought out and in any case they are not significantly detrimental to my child at present. I have seen no evidence of anyone passively standing by.
Report abuse
Parent A – I believe that Georgia was referring the LC as an example. Any successful school could be selected and studied. The policies in the UK in general should be studied and appropriate strategies implemented over here.
Your point about teachers is correct, but I feel that due to the licensing system we are unable to attract and keep good teachers. I’m not saying abolish the license system – but its something which may need to be looked at so that improvements can be made.
Good points about bullying, however, it is imperative that measures are taken as this can be a huge problem. Perhaps the employment of teachers aids on a large scale could help? I know it costs money but they are quite a low paid profession and not many qualifications needed so it is realistic for Guernsey schools to train a few dozen up quite quickly if necessary. The school time only with holidays off would suit many people. Just an idea.
I DO NOT think the 11+ is behind these recent stats at all. As Gorgia quite rightly stated that even when all the pupils are combined then the UK still outperforms Guernsey students significantly. In the UK where Grammars still exist, the comprehensives still outperform our comprehensive (doubly+) and in addition, some UK comprehensives even outperform our Grammar school. Yes the 11+ is initially taken at 11 years but if desired, students can apply to enter Grammar in say year 8, 9 or even 10. Its not the be all and end all that some posters here are trying to make it out to be. It is not that at all. Some see the Grammar school as divisive but if that is the case then isn’t also remedial education divisive and noone would advocate that to be abolished. Any “selection” of any type could be argued to be divisive – even streaming classrooms via grade in comprehensives can be seen as divisive. The fact is that people are different, different people have different needs and its the same in education. Under the current system the top 25% are given their gifted and talented program through the Grammar and the bottom 25% have their remedial education program. Bringing down the top will not help the bottom.
There’s a white elephant in the room and noone is saying anything about it- The forgotten middle. The students who we are all ignoring are the ones in the middle – its these pupils who are missing out and whose needs are not being met by the current system. The solution lies with this forgotten middle. This area should be our focus.
Report abuse
Rachel
I just think some of Georgia’s ideas are idealistic and not realistic and this would apply under any government/headmasters.
The ones in the middle are those who will shortly be getting independent school inspections costing £30,000 each and will no doubt be the subjects of the forthcoming external focused review. Hardly forgotten. In the meantime pupils and parents of LMDC seem to be saying we’re all fine thank you.
Report abuse
owwww lots of people with both good and bad comments. @ ParentA and student at LaM. You are right LaM might in fact be a good school dispite its results but i dont think the education system in GYS has clue how to show that! The 11+ there are pros/cons……but id say keep it. Improve the whole student/teacher monitoring process. Your right Dave Haslam all the inner city schools have 30% as the minimum and you really would not want to be in a school and achieve that low! I work in an inner city school with loads of languages spoken and many students who speak NO Enlish on entry. There are far more than 3 cycles of the benefit lifestyle circles going on. We are expected to get a-c’s including English and Mathes because that is the UK bench mark for all schools. A complete overhaul is required but this would include primary schools. I also think parents need to take some responsibility and get the kids off the x-box/PS3/facebook/blackberry and away from the TV and read a book or ten!
Report abuse
rachel
you forgot to mention that hundreds of grammar schools in the u.k. and quite a few comprehensives out perform our colleges too.
you idea about teaching assistants deserves merit.
georgia
what you are saying is that to help the colleges via scholarships you are prepared to disadvantage 75% of our children? says a lot about you does that.
Report abuse
Georgia
Your ‘facts’ take some believing.
Fact 1: Have you considered that England out performs Guernsey because they DO NOT have a selective system apart from some 240 Grammar schools (no more are allowed to be created and why is that?) Fact is (based on the experiences of other countries) the Island wide figure would increase without selection. This might mean fewer A* GCSEs for some but more Cs than Ds for others.
Fact 2: You’re right to a point but have you considered different catchment areas, larger intake of Special Needs students this year, some children that have had a disruptive time through relocation of school etc
Fact 3: Would have been sorted out 10 years ago if 11+ had been abolished and new schools were built with this in mind- don’t know how you deal with it now to be fair.
Fact 4: See Fact 1- + some results will go up, some go down but it’s about a fair chance for all.
Your criteria for what makes a ‘good’ teacher is frankly naive at best and downright ignorant and snobbish at worst. You obviously believe that only those that go to the ‘right’ University have the right to teach our children. Have you considered the fact that the ability to impart information in an interesting, innovative and informative way far outweighs the credence that attending a particular University gives? You don’t need a 2:1 from a Russell Group University to be a great Maths teacher. You just need to be a decent Mathematician that can teach very well.
Report abuse
Oh and by the way Jo Riches may well have a zero tolerance on various things. If only all schools had the luxury of kicking disruptive kids out at will- and despite what Dep Gillson said on Sunday this is what happens.
Report abuse
Kevin
I am not saying I am prepared to disadvantage any children by the maintenance of any system. If I thought its abolition would bring a net benefit to the Island’s children as a whole I would not hesitate to recommend it. However, I do not believe it would because, among other things, I don’t think the 11 plus system is the reason (or even one of the main reasons) for these results. If anyone has any hard evidence it is, I would like to hear it.
My point about College fee payers being of similar intelligence to High School children is simply that with proper teaching and the right environment, those children could do equally well (and certainly much better than they are doing now). The evidence suggests that neither of those features are present at the moment.
Nor do I believe that the majority of parents with children at LMDC can possibly be satisfied with the results being achieved as some have suggested. However, if they are and bearing in mind the likely adverse consequences for their children, I can only say that I am both saddened and surprised.
I hope children at these schools do not feel like failures as Parent A suggests. Others however have said that they may. My point is that, if that is a problem (along with bullying and disruptive behaviour), that is something that the teachers must solve when it occurs on their watch.
Is anyone seriously saying that social problems are worse on Guernsey that in most inner cities in the UK? They clearly are not. So why are these issues a problem at these schools? I am afraid I keep coming back to the same answer.
Report abuse
Kevin
Please supply some proof of your claims that our colleges are outperformed by hundreds of UK grammar schools and some comprehensives. I’m beginning to think you’re just trolling, as you come out with so much blatant nonsense.
Report abuse
Some of these posts have been quite intense. What do people do to relax? Me, I love football. I support Education Utd. and have done since Infants. Recently, though, the team hasn’t been performing very well.
A recent investigation has revealed the following:-
• In transpires that certain players were picked for the Academy because they were given extra coaching by professionals (not available to all players) early on in their career. But when this stopped so did their superior performance.
• In a bizarre turn of events, it seems that, as per the Roffey disclosure (see yesterday’s press), a talented set of twins one boy and one girl get the same marks in the selection process but only the boy gets to go to the Academy; on the away girls rule.
• The Academy tries to account for the fact that players, at the tender age of Academy selection, develop at different rates. Unfortunately, it doesn’t stop players who are large and imposing in year 6 but don’t kick on getting selected ahead of players who develop their skills later.
In the match I saw, the crowd appear to be enraged by an off-the-ball incident in which certain players picked for the Academy in Year 6 don’t play as well as some of those in the Reserves in the important Year 11 GCSE cup. The crowds bayed for the basis of selection to be changed.
The crowd were further incensed by an avoidable own goal, in which, the ball, instead of being corralled to safety, appeared to hit an official and was steered, by spin, into the roof of an unguarded net.
In the pub afterwards, apart from the usual talk of a change of manager being required another concensus emerged:-
To raise overall standards, the crowd would ideally like players to go to their nearest senior club with the mates they made from the junior clubs. Supporters also want to see each club have a fair mix of good and poor players. They don’t want to see some clubs have a disproportionate amount of poor players because they realise that reduces the overall standard of play in their club.
Report abuse
Georgia
Due to this publicity the stigma for the school and its pupils is possibly much more damaging and upsetting than the exam results of a (relatively) small group of students.
No parent is going to be impressed by these statistics and the evident decline – of course not – but the parents and pupils themselves have a better understanding of this situation in terms of their personal school experience and are able to address concerns at an individual level.
Lets not forget, any of those students who did not achieve the full house quota of 5 GCSEs A*-C including maths and english have the opportunity to re-sit any individual exams at a later date and therefore don’t worry for them that their entire lives will be blighted by adverse consequences. However due to all this negativity, having LMDC on their CV might not be a USP with employers locally.
I don’t think anyone has suggested that social problems are worse in Guernsey than the UK inner cities but social issues are one factor which will effect academic results to a greater or lesser extent in any school in the world depending on the cohort and in Guernsey this is affected by the 11+ system.
Report abuse
hobbesvlocke
Later in life many,though not all, of the players from the good team went on to play for Manchester United and because they were already skillful and willing to learn new tricks,the extra experience enabled them to go on and play for their country much to the pleasure of all and sundry, especially their bank managers and tax avoidance advisers
Quite a few from the lesser team made it as far as West Ham and made a decent living to support themselves and their families but missed out on all the glory and admiration
Those who didn’t make any effort to make as much as they could with the cards they were dealt were never heard of again
Report abuse
ParentA- an apologist for deputy steer?
it will be interesting to see what happens next week – any castel deputies who dont kick this bunch out will NOT be getting my vote come April.
i want deputy stephens as minister and now
Report abuse
Jack
Apart from the fact that Dep Stephens knew which buttons to press- can you tell me why you would want such a person as minister bearing in mind the tribunal decreed she deserved to be sacked- but her employer went about it the wrong way?
Report abuse
Phil
For every league table you think you top, someone else will invent another one in the Private School sector. The colleges here highlight the tables that show them in the best light. The Independent Schools elsewhere look for every distinction. Every fee paying school is expected to have 100% 5 A*-C grades inc m&e so they then keep going to the next level which ends up with most A* & A grades. On the current tables, our colleges are distinctly average- particularly Elizabeth College. Bit of a daft system really, almost as daft as deciding someone’s potential at the age of 11.
Report abuse
jack
I couldn’t agree more
It is quite right that Carol Steere and the others who have offered their resignation should have the opportunity to defend themselves but unless they come up with a really convincing argument,and the general public can see clearly that it IS a convincing argument then any ‘old pals act’ .. ‘you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’type of voting will be the death knell for those deputies who clearly have not got the best interests of the island at heart
At a time when the vital matter of TRUST in our leaders is at a very low ebb the Education Board failed to notice the clamour for more open government,more honesty and less back covering,and chose instead to try their damndest to hide what appears to be years of failure with spin and downright lies
Whether those lies were introduced by the Board or by the civil servants will hopefully be made clear in the resignation debate
Deputies,take the opportunity to regain some of the TRUST you believe you deserve by voting in the correct way,whichever way that turns out to be next week
Report abuse
Terry
Am I missing something? How is someone’s potential decided at 11 years old? Are you suggesting that all children who do not go to the colleges or the Grammar School are somehow consigned to the scrapheap?
The 11 plus is only a form of streaming, would you prefer to have kids of varying abilities all in the same classroom?
Report abuse
Terry Le Monde,
Your claim that Jane Stephens’ employment tribunal found that she ‘deserved to be sacked’ is frankly defamatory. I recommend you read it more carefully, particularly sections 35.3 through 35.8 of the decision:
http://www.gov.gg/ccm/cms-service/download/asset/?asset_id=10069059
The criticism of Jane Stephens in the findings is couched in terms of ‘given the testimony of the Respondent that… [Jane Stephens did this] … you would have expected them to deal with it properly, instead of [doing whatever they did]‘.
Seeing as you raised the matter of the tribunal, I thought this nugget deserved another airing (from section 35.31):
‘After the critical meeting between Mrs. Stephens and Mr. Neale in late September 2005 any possibility of following a fair process was seemingly very remote; and became impossible due to the continuing failure of Senior Education Management and the Education Board to adopt the rules of natural justice that are so evidently missing in this dismissal.’
Triple ouch!
Report abuse
Jack
Hi, thanks for reading my post.
I would comment further but I feel Peter Roffey is far more eloquent than me and I agree with everything he had to say about this in his comments section.
I’m on the fence with Ms Stephens. On the one hand she ruffles things up which isn’t necessarily a bad thing and shows bravery but on the other hand she doesn’t exactly seem to be diplomatic or a team player. Not sure.
Report abuse
Phil
When I was at Grammar School we had several boys who moved there from the secondary modern schools at age 13 or 14. In those days there was an effetcive “13-plus” which managed to identify those children who had “failed” their eleven plus, but who by the age of 13 had caught up and proved that they really should have been at the Grammar School. Indeed, they were “upper quartile” academically as soon as they arrived at the Grammar School.
Maybe the 13-plus should be re-introduced. It seems like a perfect solution to me as it gives children a second chance and lessons the impact of the 11-plus. I’m a fan of the 11-plus “because it works for Guernsey”, but at the same time I am not so blind as to be unable to recognise some of its downsides. So why not address and lessen those downsides?
When you consider that there can be 11 1/2 months age difference between children taking the 11-plus, its obvious that differing levels of maturity exist when they sit their 11-plus. Some children are just more ready to take it at the relevant time. Such an age gap has far less impact as the child gets older.
If the Grammar School was today able to accommodate a certain number of children who had passed a special “13-plus”, then in my view it would be a massive improvement.
Report abuse
Terry
I think it is self evident that the reason Guernsey underperforms the UK is because the LMDC/St Sampsons results are so poor (and falling) because their impact on the averages is devastating. Putting any further children into a system led by the people presently responsible for those schools, until they have demonstrated they can deliver acceptable results, in my view is tantamount to negligence. So no – I do not agree with you and I think your analysis is entirely lacking in any basis in fact.
I don’t buy your catchment area analysis either. We are not talking about differences such as those akin to the stockbroker belt v peckham/tottenham but minor differences at worst.
By the way, I might be labelled snobbish/naive etc for suggesting that teachers be of the highest quality at the high schools – although I derive some comfort that I am not alone in that from the opinion article in the press today suggesting teacher quality is a key issue.
If a potential teacher cannot demonstrate that he/she ticks all the boxes in terms of teaching ability, intelligence, character and so forth, I also consider that a headmaster should think very hard before taking a risk on them. It is patently not in the interests of his children that he should.
Sorry but I, like many of the top employers (banks, accountants, law firms, etc etc), happen to think that where a candidate goes to University and the grade he/she gets is a relevant consideration. Many such employers do not even consider such potential recruits if they don’t tick that box. Why should Guernsey children be considered any less important?
Report abuse
Phil
I never referred to anyone being put on the scrapheap at 11. I was pointing out that a decision is made as to which ‘type’ of education would suit each child based on their ‘potential’ to succeed in a more academic environment whatever that means. Your point about streaming is irrelevant. Do you really think Comprehensive schools teach all children of all abilities in the same classes all of the time? People keep telling us the private Colleges here take a wide range of ability- they seem to manage that ok. When schools do teach mixed abilities in classes they use differentiation. This can have amazing results.
Chris J
I think I did word the point about Jane Stephens too strongly. However the gist of the tribunal was certainly that she had acted in a way that was not fitting of a headteacher. Nobody came out of that whole sorry episode smelling of roses.
To those thinking of a 14+ test- have a thought for the Jersey school that lost its top students through this and was then slated for low GCSE results
Report abuse
Georgia
Clearly you see no need for an external review as you have all the facts to hand. Thank you for sharing your “wisdom” with us free of charge.
Clearly your findings suggest everyone involved should be sacked, underperforming schools should close and the pupils should all go home.
Problem solved. Any other course of action would be tantamount to negligence.
Report abuse
Phil
The problem with the 11+ as a form of streaming is that it is fixed. A fair streaming system (comprehensive) would allow pupils to switch streams and continually compete with other pupils for any advantages in the higher streams. The 11+ makes this impossible as the continual switching of schools required by pupils going up and down stream would make it unworkable.
The upper streams of education are therefore effectively closed off permanently to any pupils who are not awarded scholarships at age 11.
Report abuse
the more that gets revealed the more frightening this becomes.
the lack of communication with schools by this board is almost unbelievable. the scrutiny committee seems to be focusing on accountability, communication etc holding all departments to account with principles of corporate governance – who is leading this work? – oh deputy mat f, why not practice what you preach?!
why did headmaster leave grammar recently – yes an offer came up in middle east, but why go – does Carol know why he really left Guernsey – answer might be problems with Education Department? (by the way that is rhetorical)
Report abuse
Jack has every reason to be frightened by the lack of communication between the political members of the Education Board and schools.
What deputies should probe during the resignation debate are the true reasons for this failure. Were obstacles put in the way of the deputies by those at the Education department? If yeas, what were the obstacles and who was responsible?
Searching questions and honest answers are needed.
Report abuse