‘Root and branch’ Education review proposed
Friday 30th September 2011, 3:37PM BST.
A ROOT-AND-BRANCH review of secondary education is needed to correct a ‘basic failure in public services’ following revelations about poor GCSE results, the chief minister has said in a damning statement.
Deputy Lyndon Trott (pictured) said he would propose such a review to the Policy Council because he felt islanders, parents and students had been let down by Education.
‘Islanders, like most members of the States, have been truly shocked by the performance of Guernsey’s secondary schools,’ he said.
‘There has clearly been a basic failure in public services. This is unacceptable, not least to the pupils and parents that are being let down.’
UPDATE, 17:30, Friday 30/9/11
Deputy Tony Spruce has announced that he, too, is tendering his resignation from the Education Department.
He follows Deputies Carol Fletcher, Mike Collins and Matt Fallaize in making this move and leaves Deputy David de Lisle as the sole States member in the department.
- More on this story and today’s States’ sitting in Saturday’s Guernsey Press
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It is encouraging to note that LST is taking this dreadful lapse so seriously. No one in Education should be permitted to hide, even if it means a big shakeout of those not doing their job and letting the Island down.I came to Guernsey in 1987 and one of the big advantages was the very high standard of education. Let’s hope it can be returned to its former glory, sooner rather than later.
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Whilst I agree with a complete shake up of the Education system to correct these failing or at least begin to address them, it is the children themselves who have the choice to study, attend, and work damn hard at school if they want to pass exams.
Too many children are just going through the motions whilst in Education, and then they moan about the system when they do not get the grades they want when the only thing that has failed is themselves.
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I thought the most recent big policy was making the kids wear a new uniform?
The ship was sinking and all they did was stand around discussing the scatter cushions?
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Could not agree more with Donkey Abroad.
As said on the other threads, the failings with education begin in the home, that is were the root of accountability starts.
Children should have direction and boundaries ingrained in them before their first day at school. To much is left for the Teachers to set and mop up, this is unfair on those children with the acceptance to conform and try. Perhaps what is needed is structured pre school to backup where parenting is failing. Both these schools appear the most in this paper, recent two articles I can think of is bullying and piercing, both attitudes parents should have been controlling and not leaving it to occur in the school and therefore indicating a disruptive moral.
You can take a child to school, but you can not make it learn. If the incentive or the moral obligation to try is not there, then you wont educate. You can only provide so much it is ultimately down to the student to make use of it. New schools, new this and new that, change this or that, will not fix the root issue of a foundation of students who just can’t be bothered.
Society is like that in that there are sectors that just don’t have to be accountable as provisions are still made, so why try, and this attitude trickles down to the children and the repercussions are seen in education today.
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Jump in with both feet before engaging brain with a populist statement to take political advantage.
Lets see what we are comparing with what and whether in fact these results have been the average over the years or have been deteriorating in recent years. Is the UK system assessed in the same way as ours?
Its easy to make statements and look good knowing your onto a sensitive subject like children’s education, but its also a little irresponsible before any inquiry has come up with a reason for the problem.
Deputy Carol Steere is a hard working Deputy with a genuine interest in the best possible way forward for Education, her Committee also consist of genuine hard working Deputies. Let them conduct an inquiry and come back to the States with a report.
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Maybe the schools particularily being mentioned need to focus on the availability of vocational studies for those less acedemically directed. Then all students would have the opportunity to leave education with skills to take them forward into employment or further education.
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Well done Lyndon Trott. The abysmal state of secondary schools needs to be fixed and quickly.
As Chief Minister, this is where he should be getting involved and sorting out this mess. He should be actively involved in this matter until it is sorted out. Tough decisions and capital expenditure will be required and there is no point delegating this to some other Deputy with little experience, will or power to get anything done. This is too important for the Islands children and should go straight to the ‘top of the pile’.
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What I didn’t hear about so far is the views of the relevant parents of the LMDC students. If my kids were at LMDC and I heard that most of the final year kids had not achieved any GCSE’s between them I would be asking a few questions.
I know and fully accept that there are some kids who will not be able to achieve the marks needed to get a grade A* to C in the GCSE’s. But is it really a matter of lack of ability or also that the teachers have been unable to inspire them, for whatever reason? We clearly need an urgent review of education, as soon as possible.
Too many people are willing to accept this kind of situation in Guernsey. Times are hard in the real world right now (and it may happen in Guernsey too) and it is tough sometimes even for the brightest and best to get good jobs. What chance do some of our young people stand anywhere if they have no qualifications?
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It has finally been revealed that the Education Department has been failing in its primary mandate to educate.
For years it has been consumed by its officers own political ideals of comprehensive education, the removal of selection, a tertiary college, nursery education, lifelong learning and promoting degrees in soft subjects like macramé at the University of Dingly Dell.
At the same time as increasing the department’s staff so it is now large enough to run the Education of an English county.
I am in complete agreement with Chief Minister Trott and look forward to the political idealists being rooted out completely, the irrelevant branches being chopped off and some serious educational and inspirational leaders being appointed to concentrate on providing the best education possible for our 4 to 21 year olds.
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A shake up of education is not the problem that needs to be solved, it’s a simple reality check of behaviour and the current attitude of students within the education and society in general.
A teachers job is to teach, which yes comes hand in hand with classroom control, organisation and planning, but at what point should they have to plan with students that plan to disrupt and destroy their lesson? At what point did it become acceptable in society for students to tell the teachers to go away in an ultimately rude and immature manner.
This has become a common occurance in the classroom and teachers have very few measures to deal with this. In my opinion responsibility begins at home and whether your a multi millionaire or struggling to make ends meet it costs nothing to educate children in the importance of a good education and the fact that it is totally unacceptable to tell your teacher where to go in the rudest possible way.
Let’s all take a step back and think about what we are allowing our children to get away with and fight the problem at home and prevent it getting to school.
Teachers are largely speaking caring members of the community that want to inspire students and help them achieve their goals in life whatever they may be.
Our current circumstance is obviously not working but I don’t believe this is due to bad teachers and if it is we need to keep hold of the good ones and not change them every five years. One of the underlying golden rules in education is continuity, so we should ensure students have continuously good teachers, continuous rules that are enforced with strength.
Although it is evident much needs to change it is clear that some very simple changes out of the control of the states and the schools could be made at home without imposing any further financial implications.
Bottom line is, if your child is badly behaved at school back the school and don’t go on the defensive of your child because in turn your enforcing the bad behaviour and negatively impacting the education of your child but more importantly lots of others too.
Education should be seen as a privilege not a right!
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Need to do more to attract better teachers that are qualified in their subject area. Qualified teachers, smaller class sizes and a partnership with parents should go along way to helping the future of this island.
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Mr Trott has been in the dark for several years about questionable statistics which education have been forced to release and are now suddenly casting an unnecessary shadow over Guernsey schools and indeed Guernsey’s reputation. Now that is a shock.
I tend to agree with you Sam.
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Why oh why oh why are people angry with the department and teachers about these results. OK so they didnt release the detailed results, was this to protect the department, the school, the teachers, the pupils or the parents?
I think that everyone needs to remember that if a child fails then the finger can be pointed in many directions but usually all parties have to accept responsibility thats the department, school, pupils and PARENTS. Only when all parties work together can the child be expected to succeed.
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This is so depressing: how can these results have happened? Whatever happened to aspiration, work ethic and respect for teachers? Each school needs to expect high achievements ( perhaps in some cases these may be vocational ) and acceptable behaviour from students and parents. Perhaps there should be a school set apart for all the disruptive students so the others can get on with learning.
What would Education do if we all refused to let our children go to these schools?
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Sam
Are you seriously advocating the woman who forcibly tried to keep everyone in the dark to protect herself be allowed to appraise her own performance?
Wow, seriously…. wow!
Its hardly surprising that certain posters agree with that logic.
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Carol steere is doing a good job,maybe if our cm spent more time in the island supporting our young students instead of travelling the world looking after the banking sector!he would actualy have the right to critisize.Well done Carol
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Mr Lloyd
What I do believe is that we have now jumped onto one set of statistics and totally over reacted. It is quite possible that Deputy Steere realised that is exactly what would happen and that was the reason she was reluctant to release them without a like for like to compare them with.
Yes this should be looked at in more depth and if I didn’t have some faith in the Education Committee, I would agree, but they have some good genuine Deputies who know the ropes and yes I would trust them to look into this whole subject.
I agree with many of the posts above about responsibility, especially Parents and discipline.
One thing I do not like is seeing the Chief Minister Postulating and taking political advantage of a situation that needs some good constructive dialogue by those in the know.
Just for info , I have absolutly no connection to anyone on the education committee.
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” Root and branch”. Is our Chief Minister attempting to be a man of the trees? And yes,I agree with SAM, trying to look good with one eye on next April. But,like all true Guernseymen, When the time comes,”I will remember”.
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Much as I am pleased to hear Deputy Steere tender her resignation (which I hope is accepted quickly) she should not be forced to carry the can alone. Her fellow Board members must answer for the ludicrous behaviour of the Education Department over the previous few years.
Then there is Deputy Trott. He is absolutely right when he says we have been let down by the Education Department however he should also remember that, as Chief Minister, he carries his fair share of responsibility and accountability for this fiasco. Rather than acting like the “knight in shining armour” riding to the rescue, a little bit of humility wouldn’t go amiss. If you want the title and the perks sir, you need to carry the can when things go wrong.
Finally, us parents and society in general need to accept some responsibility. Together we have conspired to create a society where too many children are ignored or over-pampered (or both) – meaning they have no idea how to deal with discipline and structure at school or in society.
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Mr Lloyd
Did I miss something? Certain posters (me) do not agree with the “logic” you are referring to – that is nonsense.
Bewildered
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I think the law here permits home education.
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Guern abroad,
so you are saying that the parents are to blame for these shameful statistics? Are you saying standards in the home have dropped so significantly in Guernsey over the past three years? If so then this is unique to Guernsey, as everywhere else, results have improved, not collapsed as they have in Guernsey.
Steere and terrible performances by head teacher are solely to blame, this time it is not down to the parents.
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I agree with you Paul but you’ve left someone out there. Someone who’s raking in a six figure salary, paid for by us, supposedly for directing Guernsey’s education service. Derek Neale stand up and take your share of the blame for the fiasco.
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I have been reading the torrent of comment on the GCSE results for the last few days, while many of the comments have been heartfelt, interesting and in some cases amusing – I can only sum up the vast majority as being mindless, lacking in any real knowledge and damaging in the extreme.
What most people fail to understand is what conclusions can be drawn from the statistics, people have jumped to make comparisons between the UK and Guernsey schools that are so far from reality as to be completely foolish. It might also be worth thinking about the schools in the UK that do not hit the 35% target – yes they are named and shamed, but they are also given substantial sums of money to put things right. More money to solve that one problem than the Guernsey head teachers get in one year to run their entire school.
Some things to think about:
1. Most schools in the UK are comprehensive i.e they have the full ability range of students
2. The Headteacher has total control over the schools entire budget, if they want to employ more staff they can
3. Most UK school have numerous teaching assistants to allow students with lower levels of ability to be supported, often this runs in to the tens and twenties – most High schools have less than four
4. The amount of money spent on High schools in Guernsey is small compared to the amount spent in the UK,
The use of one set of results from one year to make any conclusions about any school is very dangerous, so is the release of data when most people have little idea of what it means and what it can realistically be used to compare with. The use of data in the UK is light years ahead of that in Guernsey, but that data in the UK comes from many different areas of the school and the community it serves. So before we all jump to conclusions and before we all start shouting and making wild and dangerous statements why don’t we try to find out more and ask some sensible questions.
For those of you who want to adopt the UK systems, be very careful what you wish for.
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Rats and ship comes to mind. Soon the Environment Department will follow if they are not booted out by the people first.
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I have been following the education threads this week and find it odd that no-one mentions the fact that many of these students must arrive at secondary school without basic skills. How are our primary schools being judged? Easy enough to push the brighter students and get them into Grammar or the Colleges, but are the rest left to their own limited devices? Why aren’t the poorest students at secondary given a year of nothing but basics? As has been said, English and maths skills are vital to every adult working life. For those children who are unfortunate enough to have zero parental guidance, Pre-school at least offers them a chance to learn to sit still for more than 30 seconds….so let the Policy Council seriously consider education in Guernsey as a whole instead of smugly asserting that our community knows where our ‘leaders’ will be educated, so damn the rest.
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Sam
I’m sad that you dont feel that the level of public response to evidence that the island failing its children is appropriate, I really am.
The publics response is exactly what education expected, thats why they kept these figures under wraps, and thats why they have continued to twist the statistics for a number of years now to conceal the true state of our education system.
Afterall if you have nothing to hide then why hide it??
The board of education has perpetuated a system of hoodwinking the public for a number of years now, (there was an excellent blog link on here a couple of weeks ago explaining exactly what they did to the figures and how they were deliberatly misleadsing) this is why I wouldnt trust them to analyse their performance.
Whats been released in the last week is the closest to the truth we have had, thankfully it seems the majority are intelligent enough to see the figures for what they are and not try to excuse or taint the data in a similar manner to what the board have been doing for many years.
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Sam
Oh and I agree with you about LT using this to his political advantage.
Unfortunately thats a downside of the system we operate, but I certainly think he’s (and bernie for that matter) slept like a baby at the weekend.
However that said, action does need to be taken, but with election year around the corner, I’m expecting a certain amount of populism to go with it!!
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Whichever way you look at this, there is one underlying cause – the 11+ system.
The 11+ is responsible for taking away more able academic students from the comprehensives, thus lowering their exam scores compared to UK schools.
The 11+ is responsible for leaving large sections of our school children feeling that they are failures from an early age.
The 11+ is responsible for separating peer groups of children who have bonded over their early school lives. Is it any wonder then that those who cannot make their mark academically with their new peers chose more disruptive means of doing so?
Let us not get confused here. Yes, there are people who must take responsibility for presiding over a failing system (Carol Steere, Derek Neale et al).
However, what is ultimately responsible for this mess that we find ourselves in is the 11+. The teachers know this and, deep down, parents must know this.
Until we jettison the archaic, unfair 11+ system then we will inevitably continue to fail Guernsey’s children.
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L’Ree Lad – why is the 11+ system “archaic & unfair?”
The newest and best equipped school on the island isn’t for the College or Grammar kids is it?
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David Delisle is staying. Why? Is he expecting a medal?
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@L’Eree Lad
Beaucamps did twice as well as LMDC – why is that? Is it because the Beaucamps kids are “taken away” from the LMDC kids? No your logic does not add up. Under your logic we should just have one enormous school. How ridiculous. Carol and her stats fiddling cronies have already combined the results (on paper) and they are still not as good as the UK when Grammar kids are taken into account, which demonstrates that it has absolutely nothing to do with the 11+. Its just time wasting tactics.
As another poster wrote, even UK comprehensives where the top students go to Grammar schools and get scholarships doubly outperform our own comprehensives. Some UK comprehensives even outperform our Grammar and colleges. The obvious thing to do is to have an external review of our Education department, study what the UK has done and follow their lead. Parents need to be involved in an open, transparent and symbiotic relationship with the teachers and Education department as a whole. Its Carols job to change the culture at the top end to enable this to happen…. will she rise to the challenge? I hope so.
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Politicians are an easy target and it is correct they should take their share of the responsibility for the MESS that is state run education. I am minded to ask how long has mr neale been in his job? Is he the new Teflon man?
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Eggy Bread: Because (as you obviously live in a cave) every year we consign 75% of the island’s 11 year olds to the educational scrap heap by sending them to schools with no sixth form, a “slow pace of teaching” and low expectations, whilst a privileged few of their “special” friends get the benefit of going to a decent school.
What self-respecting teachers want to teach in a school where they can’t see their kids through to A level? Most academics want to teach their specialist subjects to A level.
Dress it up how you like, our education is elitist and outdated. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN A WORLD OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES!!
The majority of the 75% of our 11 year olds arrive at secondary school with a profound feeling of having failed and of having arrived at a third rate school (which, as the figures prove, they have).
That’s why.
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Vannilla
Yes exactly! Carol Steere needs to take responsibility. I’ve lost count of the number of posters on these current threads who have called for Mr Neale to be ousted… So, no, he is definitely not the new teflon man…. just a stubborn mule who is refusing to budge.
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Derek Neale has to go.
He should have gone after the fiasco of the Jane Stephens unfair dismissal case. If you are in any doubt read the tribunal judgement
http://www.gov.gg/ccm/cms-service/download/asset/?asset_id=10069059
It is 66 pages long but you only have to read the last few, especially the paragraph which states, “any possibility of following a fair process was seemingly very remote; and became impossible due to the continuing failure of Senior Education Management and the Education Board to adopt the rules of natural justice”
This whole process cost us the taxpayer hundreds of thousands.
The biggest tragedy was that Education lost an outstanding professional. Also, read Peter Roffey’s recent article in the Guernsey Press. He refers to the other educationalists whose careers have bitten the dust because they have challenged Neale?
That is why I choose to remain anonymous. I love my job and I think I am quite good at it (So the students and parents tell me, and my results are good.)
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I now hear that sacking Derek Neale is impossible.
Is that true? Does anyone know?
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Grumpy Teacher
It can’t be impossible. If he was appointed then he can be sacked. It might cost the States a sizeable pay-off under employment law unless certain things come to light which would weaken his position. Fortunately, there are one or two such issues which really would help the States to mitigate the pay-off exposure.
Whatever the final price, it will be a good deal because you cannot put a price on ruining several generations of education.
If ever there was a prime example of how the unelected, unaccountable and seemingly untouchable senior civil servants really run the island, NOT our elected politicians, then this is it.
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