Education minister keeps her job
Tuesday 11th October 2011, 4:40PM BST.
EDUCATION minister Carol Steere remains on the board after a States vote this afternoon.
But in a shock move Deputy Mike Collins’ resignation was accepted by members by 24 votes to 20.
Deputy Steere’s resignation was rejected by 24 votes to 21.
Deputies Matt Fallaize and Tony Spruce also remain after their resignations were rejected by 25 to 19 and 26 to 19 respectively.
Deputy Collins was nominated for re-election by his minister, but he faced a challenge from Deputy Allister Langlois who was proposed by Treasury minister Charles Parkinson.
After a five minute break, Deputy Langlois withdrew from the running after it emerged another person wanted to stand.
He had agreed to run only to ensure an election.
Former La Mare de Carteret secondary school head teacher Deputy Jenny Tasker replaced him in the race after being nominated by Deputy Gloria Dudley Owen.
Deputy Tasker was elected on to the board with 22 votes to Deputy Collins 21. There was one blank paper and one spoilt.
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No real surprise then.
If Carol Steere should stand next April then the people of Guernsey have to show their feelings on this by ensuring she does not get re-elected.
That seems the only way to show how out of touch politicians are with the feeling of the electorate.
There are a few others who should also be rewarded in this way.
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So Collins fails to dodge the bullet, again!!!
Steere stays to see what rocks she can steer onto next
and Tasker is tasked to be the new broom expert
Still 24 deputies wanted to get rid of the baby and keep the bath water
Roll on next year and St Peter Port North get a chance to make us all proud…
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If Deputy Collins deserved to lose his job so did the rest of them. I actually feel a little sympathy for him as I’m not quite sure what he did wrong that was any worse than the others.
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Another Guernsey Fiasco !
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I’m feeling so disheartened by this whole debacle. It’s come to light that our schools are not performing as well as they are. It’s being ‘covered up’ by this so called review which I have no faith in. Apparently, only the Maths and English departments at La Mare and Maths at St Sampson’s are going to be looked it. IT’S MUCH BIGGER THAN THAT! We need a massive review of the whole Education Department and how it’s managed.
It’s so complicated why the results were particularly bad in 2011 and here are some of the reasons for this particular year:
*St Peter Port School closing and the rump of their students being split between LMDC and St Sampson’s. This was poorly thought out and the students who spent Y7-9 at SPP had their whole secondary education disrupted.
*Raising of the School Leaving Age – NO extra provision of any value provided for the schools by the Educ Dept. St Sampson’s, a brand new build, has no facilities for vocational education. Where’s the workshop for our disillusioned boys to rip a car apart and rebuild it? Where’s the structured programmes offering work placements?
But it’s bigger than that…
*lack of support from PARENTS for many of our students – how many read with their children? Show an interest in their homework? I’m sure many of you do, but many other don’t. If you’re going to have kids, take the time to play your part in their education.
*Lack of parental interest in the school. LMDC doesn’t have a PTA, St Sampson’s has about half a dozen people on theirs! The schools need to work with parents… and parents need to work with the schools.
*aspirationless students. This could be to do with the 11 Plus, but it’s also to with the fact that many students believe that when they leave school, there’s a job waiting for them…. Or loads of benefits.
*The constant changeover of teachers on short-term licenses.
*Lack of direction from Education. Where are our schools going? What’s the big picture? Education also need to look at how they appoint new headteachers… Come on, politicians deciding on who runs a 700 strong school! No disrespect intended, but one Deputy on the short-listing panel commented that one of our high schools needed a Head from a ‘rural shire school.’ This Deputy hasn’t set foot in said school – how would he know?
*Lack of provision for the naughtiest, most vile, most feral children of today. We have The Link Centre… yes TLC!!!!! They refuse to teach more than 2 kids at a time and there is no long term placements available for these unruly offspring who completely disrupt the learning of so many of our young people.
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What a mess the states are in does any of them know what they are doing its like a big joke.
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a complete farce
the states has completely misread the mood of electorate – they clearly have no shame – hopefully tasker will give them all a kick –
as a parent I have been lied to, patronised and told my view doesnt count – stter and her buddies have not apologised – what exactly do they need to do to fall on their swords?
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Thank goodness the States of Deliberation have more sense than the general public who would have crucified her given half the chance (if comments on previous postings are anything to go by) Well done to the States (and I don’t say that very often I can assure you.)
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Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
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So Carol Steere got in by the skin of her teeth. I would expect a little humility but could not detect any in her BBC interview.
Kevin Stewart summed it up well on the radio – it will be a treat to see how Steere and Tasker shape up at their first Board meeting. Any chance of it being televised?
Lets hope the Mulkerrin report won’t be a re-run of the Robinson report. This isn’t just about GCSE results. The problems in the Education Dept run way deeper than that.
And what did Dep Collins do wrong? He has been asleep for the last 3 1/2 years. Did someone wake him up to tell him the news?
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Sorry, but there is a lot of uniformed rubbish here. Read what Peter Sherbourne said in the Guernsey Press letters page yesterday if you want a decent, well-argued, intelligent explanation of the problems with Guernsey’s educational system.
If the States had had the courage ten years ago to dispense with the antiquated 11-plus system we would be in a very different situation today. Study after study has shown that in a comprehensive system the most able 25% achieve as least as well as if they had gone to grammar schoole, and the less able students perform better than they would have done had they not been told they were failures at the age of 11.
And in Guernsey we had the perfect opportunity to introduce that system, unlike the UK where neighbouring authorities can have selective systems which leach off the brighter kids from the comprehensives.
A grammar system does not offer a route out of poverty – we all know that middle class parents coach their kids to succeed in the 11 plus, and it has been known since the 1950s that ooaching raises the average score by 10 points.
Why are we happy to educate our children comprehensively in primary school from 4 to 11 and from 16 onwards in the sixth form centre, but for some reason we have to separate them out between 11 and 16?
Clearly the most able teachers will be attracted by teaching at a school where they can teach A level. If we had gone to a system of three comprehensives, plus a 6th form college which drew from the teachers of the three comprehensives, we would be seeing much better results today.
This is not sour grapes – both my children have gone through Grammar, and have done very well but my heart bleeds for the three out of four children who are told they are failures at the age of 11, and for the teachers who work tirelessly to persuade them that they are not.
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@Gsyboy
A good post (short and to the point)
VOTE them OUT out)
@ Local Teacher
A great post well written and truly sad that it is all too true.
Take note of what this post tells you for its an insiders honest point of view. I for one thank you for the post.
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Local teacher
very good post. I think the review will be more thorough than you suggest. Also it is due to be done this year which is perfect timing for those in power to be motivated to implement the findings.
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Local Teacher
Good post.One to cut out and keep by the gent who will be carrying out the review
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Local Teacher
I agree with all that you say and I know that there are many hardworking teachers in Guernsey who do an excellent job but I would like to add my own observations.
If the recent publication of figures is not enough here is some more ‘evidence’. As a parent whose child is about to take the 11 + we have visited the schools, which included Beaucamp, which is our catchment area. We deliberately paid no attention to the buildings and we visited the same subject areas that we had visited at the Grammar School in order to be able to make comparisons. We had a talk from the Head Teacher which in our opinion was mediocre; a poor presentation containing spelling mistakes and graphics that looked like they had been downloaded from some website. When the subject of school uniform was mentioned the Head Teacher mumbled a few words and then stated the ‘we have to do this.’ We got the distinct impression he does not agree with the new school uniform; it does not matter if he agrees with it or not, in public he should be supportive of the decision that has been made. Not one teacher (apart from the Librarian who was very helpful) said hello to our child and us as we walked round; a maths teacher did not know the answer to a basic maths question that was posed on the electronic quiz which was being demonstrated – luckily my 10 year old knew the answer! When we left the school I had to ask a group of pupils if they would move out of the door frame that they were swinging off so that we could pass. The contrast between Beaucamp and The Grammar School could not have been more different; a Head Teacher who had the confidence to stand in front of an audience and who was very supportive of the High schools; teachers who engaged with both prospective pupils and their parents and pupils who took time to show us round.
The open evening is a ‘showcase’ for prospective pupils and parents; Beaucamp was a huge disappointment and it left us and, more importantly, our child feeling uninspired. We want our child to go to a school that is both inspirational and aspirational. We saw no evidence of either at Beaucamp.
In an article in The Sunday Times, Sir Michael Wilshaw, Head Teacher at Mossbourne Community Academy in Hackney, states that “Good schools are run by good heads as simple as that.” He goes on to state that there are lots of heads in the secondary sector earning more than £100,000 and there is an expectation for them to deliver; if they can’t they need to move on. I couldn’t agree more. The Director of Education, Senior Management Team at the Education Department, Head Teachers of the High Schools and the Board should hang its collective head in shame that they have allowed our High Schools to become so poorly run and mediocre; surely this is not what we want for all our children?
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If the so called Guernsey Reform Group are watching and reading any of this, my advice would be to get a petition together in relation to a ‘No Confidence’ vote in respect of the current States Deputies. You can sort the good ones out from the bad ones once this regime is toppled. Steere should not be allowed to represent a population that clearly does not want her. Alternatively, I agree with Gsyboy’s comments reference the next election in April. Which Parish does she represent? This is a prime example why there should be Island wide voting!
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Linda D,
Good points well made.
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@Linda D – Don’t worry about the 3-4 failures that went to secondary school. Your 2 children are also failures as they failed to pass to College and went to Grammar. It is the parents that mkae their children feel like failures.
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Interesting to hear Matt Fallaize on RG this morning more or less saying that it was wrong that his [and others'] resignation hadn’t been accepted.
Surely it doesn’t have to be accepted – they could simply resign. Didn’t Mike Hadley do that a while ago? They can’t force you to sit on the Board Matt. Being one of the seemingly more ethical ones out of the current crop of Deputies I’m a tad surprised you didn’t go for it.
As for the others, this all smacks of posturing on Steere’s part. Another of her vanity projects but this time seeking pats on the back and comforting words from suck-ups rather than a shiny new building.
When Kevin Stewart put it to her that she only just scraped in we got the usual “what you have to take into account…..” spin before she went on to assert that over half the voters wanted her to stay. That may have been true in the House yesterday dear, but hopefully it won’t be the same at the polling booths next year.
No contrition or acknowledgement that she only scraped back in. Just “me, me, me” couched in different terms.
In her “bleed all over the carpet” performance yesterday she said that the needs of the children were always “at the back of my [her] mind” through all the recent events. At the back?? They really ought to be at the forefront don’t you think? Or does this little slip show her true motives?
I’ll agree with pbfalla before he says it – a shambles.
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@Linda D
“A grammar system does not offer a route out of poverty – we all know that middle class parents coach their kids to succeed in the 11 plus,”
You mean there are parents who are invested enough in their child’s education to help them apply themselves to doing as well as they can in an exam? – That’s appalling, is it not?
Well, actually, of course it isn’t, what a ridiculous statement to make and one that doesn’t even make sense unless the sole aim is to try and portray those evil middle-class parents as the, erm, evil middle-class parents that you are trying to portray them as.
So if a working-class parent coached their child to help them do well in the 11+ that would be ok by you would it Linda?
By the way, a Grammar system CAN and DOES offer children from poor backgrounds a way out of poverty. I, and many others like me, know that without the excellent Guernsey Grammar School (and Boys/Girls Grammar Schools prior to that) we would have stood little chance or opportunity to prove our abilities and go on to gain from the benefits of a virgin CV showing our Alma Mater as additional evidence of why an employer should consider a young school-leaver for his first step on the career ladder.
Is it 100% fair to all children all the time? Of course not. It is a flawed system for many reasons, as all ‘systems’ are. But perhaps we should focus our efforts, instead, on the dysfunctional children from dysfunctional backgrounds who disrupt and hamper the education of their fellow-pupils at all schools. The mindset of these children is the same, irrespective of which school they attend. The problem is that those at Grammar who are ‘bright’ but dysfunctional get removed and placed in the comprehensive system, where they are then still likely to be a problem and the ones in the comprehensive schools have to be labelled as truly problematic before they are considered for removal.
It is the small percentage of ‘troubled’ children who create the most disruption and interference with your child’s education, whichever school they go to.
Remove them and much of what a school needs to accomplish will be able to be achieved. As for what should be done with these ‘problem’ children, that is another topic, but one that would centre around highly focused involvement and guidance from social services and ‘special education’ alike.
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Pete – Deputy Steere represents St Peter Port North of which I am a voter. She didn’t get my vote last time, I’ll leave it to your imagination whether there will be an X by her name come April.
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ah well , so the most important things to be discussed now will no doubt be the colour of the proposed new uniforms, a suggestion to Ms Steere that maybe she should look into her own dress code has been put on Facebook.
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Foregone conclusion….no one listens to the local teachers…..sad….
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@ Mrs average.
Great post, I fully agree that headmasters drive a schools performance. They should take credit for good and criticism for bad aspects. I understand that the current beaucamp head is the old st peter port head. This seems like a ludicrous appointment, st peter port was awful,how is he qualified to run another school? Wy not aim high and spend money on the best head and teachers we can find, incentivise and support them properly and give clear and transparent targets. If these don’t get met then we get someone else. These schools and the children of guernsey deserve the best education possible.spending now will save money in the long term as many of the children leaving these schools will be a drain on the economy. Stop the rot and spend what needs to be spent, full stop.
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One spoilt paper is that the one deputy Tasker dropped her tea on.
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Linda D
There are arguments for and against selective education and it is a little unfair to claim those who argue for are uninformed. I am old enough to be one of 3 siblings educated through the transition of a towns education system from selective to comprehensive education in the Uk through the 1960s and 70s. The post code lottery replaced selection at 11. My sister went to an old grammar, I went to an old secondary. Believe me there is a lot more to motivating children than removing the stigma of 11+. For many years the old grammar schools in my home town continued to outperform the old secondaries. The argument that able children do as well in comprehensives is only true if it is a good comprehensive. Otherwise we would not see the UK government asking universities to lower entry requirements for bright children from underperforming schools. The issues facing the secondary schools may be diluted by adding the more able 25% but all those factors so well presented by ‘Local Teacher’ in this thread, will still remain.
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Steere offers resignation then uses her vote to not accept her offer.
What other favours has she called in?
You are FAILING our children so do the right thing and stand down
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So we have the terms of the review.
The CM has played the politician’s card of setting its terms specifically to avoid the key issues and assist his political allies.
If it weren’t so tragic for the Island’s children, the transparency would be laughable. The terms alone ensure it will be a whitewash – they are clearly designed to prevent Mr Mulkerris from examining anything that matters.
Remember Tony Blair’s enquiry into the Iraqi War and WMD – has the Chief Minister just finished his TB’s biography?
So what isn’t being specifically examined? Why the very things responsible for the dismal results at the High Schools in the first place. Those are primarily:
1. Leadership – and specifically the ability of Ms Steer, the Senior Civil Servant responsible Neale) and the Headmasters of LMCD/SS
2. The teaching quality in those schools.
3. The atmosphere in them, specifically, disruptive pupils and bullying.
4. Parent – teacher interaction – and specifically the complete lack of it
Etc etc.
No doubt Parent A/Jewels will think the terms excellent, save that the 11 plus isn’t being reviewed – the only think they wanted no doubt – oh well you can have everything at one sitting.
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With one abstention and Deputy Steere voting for herself it makes the 24-21 vote look even more precarious
Still MS Steere’s glass is always half full and she is looking upon it as a resounding vote of confidence and a chance to make the improvements which will bring everyone onside
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Georgia
You really know everything don’t you – now you even allege to know what I want. Are you psychic? Apparently not.
I’m glad you have resumed posting because now you have released your information there may still be time to put things right by instigating another review – Oops no need as all those things you mentioned will perhaps be covered by the school inspections – or did you forget about that?
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The 11 plus is a test which is either passed or failed. To call it selection is like telling someone who just has failed their driving test that they have not failed but have been selected to ride their bicycle instead.
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Mark Elliott
Before you make derogatory comments on this site, please get your facts right. Mr Wheeler who was head at St Peter Port is now head at La Mare de Carteret not Les Beaucamps.
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I fear that Mrs S is now going to spend time and money re addressing the 11+ issue instead of urgently looking at the teaching methods/additional help/parental involvement/pupils realistic abilities etc etc at La MdC and StS. She mentioned on the radio that Year 7 teachers spend a whole year trying to instill confidence back into those children who did not get scholarships. I am afraid this is absolute nonsense but becuase this was an issue personal to her son she thinks that this is the case for all the pupils. I urge the people involved with this issue, both the government and the teachers to get down to the nitty gritty immediately so the current Year 11′s are getting as much help as possible to achieve good results in the basic subjects. I would aslo question why the secondary schools finish their working day so early in comparison to the Grammar School.
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@ valeite
Surely that makes the point even more valid as La Mare has a much lower pass rate (12%) compared to Beaucamp?
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Parent A
There is no need for psychic powers to tell what you think, as you have made your opinions plain in your earlier posts. Among which, you effectively said that everything was fine at LMDC and that the 11 plus was at the problem. So I stand by my characterisation of you.
If I am a know all in your eyes, I can only say your powers of analysis do not set a very high hurdle.
Of course, as usual, you miss the big picture contenting yourself with petty insults.
For what is so disappointing about this review is that LT effectively saved Carol Steere’s political skin just (24 v 21) by declaring BEFORE THE DEBATE that her resignation should not be accepted until the review was carried out and that demonstrated she was at fault. Then he sets terms of a review which fails to include an investigation of Derek Neale’s or her leadership (along with the competancy of the headmasters and teachers, the key issues). So as that won’t be examined, he can say “look she wasn’t criticised in the review”, I was right – in other words a complete whitewash.
Of course I didn’t forget about the school inspections, but where do they include an examination of the leadership of the Minister or the DoE. In any event, those inspections have proven to be completely toothless in either identifying or acting as a catayst to correct the failings that are now so apparent in LMDC and SS.
No doubt the excellent jounalists Messrs Mann and Roffey have spotted this transparent tactic by LC, but (in case they haven’t asked already) can I suggest that they might find out whether staff at the DoE effectively drafted the terms of the review for approval by LT, effectively setting the terms so that they themselves were not to be investigated. No conflict of interest there then.
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Georgia
An good analysis of the impotent review.
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Georgia
There was no insult intended at all. Sorry. I’ll retract my comment which inferred you are a know it all as this was sarcastic and inappropriate. Sorry if I crossed the mark. I take exception to others misrepresenting my views and that was the point I was trying to make.
I never said everything was fine at LMDC (although I did say at some point that parents and pupils appear to be saying – “we’re all fine thanks”) For the record I think there is a serious issue which needs to be reviewed and action needs to be taken however I have confidence in all those involved that this will be addressed as best it can be.
My feeling is that circumstances rather than individuals are to blame (although I do have some reservations about some individuals after all no one’s perfect). Regarding the 11+ I think there are pros and cons – I was a college scholarship student and my child is at High school so I know from both sides. But I do feel strongly that the selection system will have a bearing on the GCSE results of the high schools by inevitably lowering them.
I think Mr Trott was right. He said an uninformed decision would be a wrong one. How would a reviewer go about assessing the leadership of Ms Steere and Mr Neale? This is subjective. He will review all the facts and then and only then people will be in a position to form judgements.
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If the final draft (reports are often watered down to avoid embarrassment)is still scathing of the Board and the Department the CM may have to fall back on his infamous June statement …
‘The case has been settled to the satisfaction of the States of Guernsey’
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Ms Steere has shown great courage under the pressure of public scrutiny and waves of criticism. By sticking to her convictions and being decisive with her course of action, she has shown she is a leader capable of seeing things through when things get tough. Whatever the outcome she has done all she can to fulfill her responsibilities.
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What a complete farce! She shouldn’t be in a public office if she doesn’t want to address the public. Get a job in a functional line. She has expressed very clearly that she prefers to work without the glare of the public and they, the public, don’t want you! Honesty, transparency and accountability – thats what the public wants and Carol Steele has failed on all three counts.
Bill Yeager – agree 100% good post.
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All this was a misunderstanding, it was being addressed by the new uniforms, the kids were going to be smarter and as this also means cleverer they would pass more exams! simples.
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Local teacher,
Your post indeed makes a lot of sense but please get your facts right in your understanding of special educational provision on the island before you make wild, innaccurate assumptions regarding the The Link Centre.
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One Blank Paper & One Spoilt Paper.. Well if our States members cant even complete a Ballot Paper.. its no wonder were in this state !
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“Former La Mare de Carteret secondary school head teacher Deputy Jenny Tasker replaced him in the race after being nominated by Deputy Gloria Dudley Owen.”
So let me get this straight, a person who was more than likely contributory to the failing of this school in the past has been RE-ELECTED to help drag this school out of a dung heap?
This is looking like Nepotism at it’s finest (anyone surprised there? No? Didn’t think so) I also think this is a pure case of the Feckless leading the Feckless. If this were back in the U.K then things would have been tougher and tightened faster regarding Ms Steere.
She certainly wouldn’t be able to use HER vote to vote against her own resignation offer. THAT is called a conflict of interest in any other circle of professions and the whole vote and debate should have been declared null and void and re-convened without her at a date unknown to herself.
Anywhere else in the world someone who does this is called “Dictator” and “Despot” and the free thinking 1st world powers take serious steps to remove them, either forcibly or by Embargo of trade and funds.
Let’s for once and all eradicate this rot that is incompetence,nepotism,”sweetheart deals”, arrogance and downright stupidity. Try bringing in Teachers from the U.K (Head,Deputy and frontline) that ACTUALLY want to teach before wanting to fill their bank accounts and Egos.
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Remarkable rebranding of Les Beaucamps and Le Mare de Carteret.
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@bettyboo
Thanks for that… I did exaggerate when I said the Link Centre only takes 2 students. However, the point is still there that Guernsey does not have an long-term provision for the most challenging students. The idea is that they are ‘re-habilitated’ at the Link and then return to mainstream school perfectly behaved. But many don’t… we need something for these completely uncontrollable children who school cannot cater for.
The fault lies with the Education Department who write the policy.
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Lemony Dog is sure that when the GCSE results at La Mare High improve, there will be hundreds of posts on these pages to congratulate the achievements of the hardworking head, staff and pupils….
And the Education Board will parade through the streets on a cart bedecked with GCSE certificates, so that the good citizens of Jinsey can throw flowers in their wake in celebratory spirit.
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Lemony Dog says: “Congratulations to Deputy Stephens for forcing the Education Department to reveal GCSE results in the ‘failing’ High Schools”.
Lemony Dog asks: Could Deputy Stephens force the Education Department to reveal how much Guernsey Taxpayers money has been paid to ‘failing’ former headteachers of special schools to ‘go quietly?’
Lemony Dog hates hypocrites and thinks the hardworking Guernsey taxpayer has a right to know!
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blow in boy
you seem to be obsessed with bringing in teachers from the u.k. you got a problem with local teachers?
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@ Kevin – I have a problem with teachers that don’t or can’t teach, I have a problem with head-teachers that can’t manage or are unable to run a school, I have a problem with incompetence in specific and in general.
It’s a bit like having a bar of chocolate and trying to do the ironing with it – ultimately you’re just gonna end up with very large brown,sticky mess everywhere.
My mum was a teacher back in the UK and she had 35+ in her class. This was 35+ six year olds and every single one of her kids in her class was above the national standards, she then went on to be the head teacher of that school. Within 18 months (Ofsted inspection to Ofsted inspection) she had dragged the school from in the bottom 20 bracket in the area to within the top 10 bracket.
This took her a lot of time and effort (sometimes at the expense of a normal family life), it was coming home at 5:30 after putting in 2 hours of overtime at school after the bell had rung, it was another 5 hours of planning,reading,marking, reviewing figures, strategising etc after a quickly eaten dinner……So as you can appreciate I understand even more than those around me just what it takes to turn a badly performing school into an efficient establishment that gets results and performs highly.
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Mrs Average
Readers beware1 Not all posts on this site reflect the truth.
We were at the Beaucamps open evening and whilst visiting the maths department saw a teacher helping a child answer a question. Encouragement was given so that the child answered correctly, I’m sure the teacher was easily able to answer the questions! The students were so keen to show off their talents, it was nice to see happy children. As most of the children had been asked to vote for uniforms or not, and the majority were for them, I felt no reluctance was shown by the head. This is a fact as I know a child at the school. Why post such rubbish?
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the point I make blow in boy is that really you don’t have a clue who is a good or bad teacher here. YOU are not a professional so YOU don’t really know. As you state your mother was a good head teacher that doesn’t mean that YOU know anything about education unless you are a teacher yourself.
for your information there are plenty of teachers here in guernsey who are working damned hard i know teachers who don’t get home from work until 5.30 p.m. it’s not unusual i know plenty who mark at home e.t.c. before we start the rhetoric let’s wait and see what the review says.
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Yes I am getting a little old but my memory is still pretty good, is this not the same deputy who several years ago stood up in the states chamber and claimed that she coud leave the chamber and be back in half an hour with drugs, if it is then (as today) the States did not have the bottle to challenge her, she should not have waited for a vote she should have fallen on her sword
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Kevin, your post aimed at blow in boy is both patronising and ignorant. Quite a lot of us Joe Publics are very well educated professionals and know a lot about education. Blow in boy, having been privy to a highly successful teacher as a role model is well positioned to know what is and what isn’t a good teacher and his opinion should be respected. In fact, he comes across as very well educated professional, unlike yourself who has a clear preference for trolling rather than adding anything constructive of your own.
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Carol Steere should have gone and not hung on to collect her pay every month. Suppose she’s worried that she won’t find it easy to get a proper job in the real world – her CV would make interesting reading!
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…………..Great pity…………:0(
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@ Rachel – Thank-you for your well educated response to my opinion on this matter. It seems I may have touched a nerve with Kevin at posting a well reasoned argument and validity of thought. I’m fine with that because as Einstein once said “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” I will let Kevin sleep peacefully in the fact that he thinks that a review from an inherently flawed system will be objective and impartial in it’s outcome. Those that aren’t caught up in blind stubborness will realise otherwise.
THIS is why I suggest that outside professionals are brought in from “abroad”, it means that they are not a part of the States of Deliberation’s politics and can therefore get on with bringing the Education system up to par, both efficiently and impartially.
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Blow-in boy
Our housing laws dictate that we must fill vacancies with local teachers if they are available. We should promote local applicants over non local.
If a local teacher is below par it is very difficult to dismiss them especially if there is no other local teacher to fill their post. We can easily terminate a non local teacher’s contract by effectively allowing their housing license to expire. We could do this for several reasons for example if their performance isn’t up to scratch or if a local teacher becomes available.
It seems to me that these circumstances would make it difficult for Guernsey to attract the best teachers in the world.
I’m sure we have some excellent local teachers here but it seems they have unfair advantages over non locals and I’m not sure the pleasure of living in Guernsey and a token housing subsidy is enough to compensate the non locals for their apparent lack of equal rights.
I see this as an inherent flaw and a significant obstacle for the education department.
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blow in boy and parenta
what a load of tosh you have both written.
I assume the colleges and grammar have the same proportion of non local teachers as the high schools. your argument is a complete red herring.
rachel,
climb down of your high horse for a moment. My dad was a police officer does that make me an expert on modern policing? “he comes across as a very well educated proffesional” how the hell do you know? there are too many chums posting on here! When I resort to name calling as you do please feel free to take the high ground.
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Kevin
I’m not so sure its a red herring but my post was in response to those who think that teaching standard is the problem and therefore feel the answer is to get brilliant teachers in from overseas to replace the ones we’ve got. All I was saying is that its not that easy. Our first priority is to give jobs to (and promote) locals whether they are good teachers or not.
Tosh? I don’t mind a good debate but at least my comments are accurate observations and not just assumptions :-)
I think it is a very different proposition to teach at college/grammar to teaching at high schools and its unlikely the same proportion of locals/non locals teach at all schools.
I wonder if the review will compare the schools’ teaching standards and methods. That would be handy.
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Whilst I agree that the Minister is where the buck stops, it must be The Education Department that should be looking to resign starting at the top and those who have been so called promoted from Secondary school posts to office posts. I also agree that we should look at bringing back some of the locals we have sent to uni, and I am sure amongst these we will find suitable replacement Education Office staff, but it has to be excepted that this is a long term project and not overnight.
We need strong Head teachers who will tell the politicians what is needed and also encourage parents to get involved in primary school activities.
Currently we are reaping the poor leadership of past education boards and heads.
I acknowledge that we currently do have a couple of good heads who should be aloud to have a say in the way forward and help to get the system out of the mess that it now is in.
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Guern
You clearly understand the problems and the probable causes
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Having slept on my previous post, perhaps Mrs Steere will standup and be counted by taking action in her Board room by asking her Director and his staff to consider their jobs as they are obviously not preforming, she should give them time lines to preform or get out (as would be the case in any business that was not preforming for it’s Directors), my suggestion would be a very short time line and either he would have to get shot of some of the dead wood within his office that are under achieving or look hard at is own performance.
I understand that there are teaching posts that are coming up in January that still have not been advertised, WHY! how do we expect to get locals back if we do not give them time to apply for the position and then give notice from their current teaching job, in order to relocate back to the island.
These relocations would save the Island a fortune,and would start to repay the for the education afforded to some whilst off island at uni.
You can not put the blame on the Housing situation, all this is doing, is diverting from the real problem, and giving those who it really concerns a smoke screen to hide behind.
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@ Parent A:
I think you’ll find that in my previous posting on various topics I ask for a call to end Exclusivity within certain spheres. The area of education is one of them, to quote myself :
“Let’s for once and all eradicate this rot that is incompetence,nepotism,”sweetheart deals”, arrogance and downright stupidity. ”
Exclusivity can be seen as a form of Nepotism and it’s also downright stupidity to deny those that are needing help the help from the best that they can get (not to sound like a Gillette advert).
The right to a good education for all from varying backgrounds is INclusive NOT EXclusive. Unfortunately as we see with Kevin’s repsonse about “Tosh” it is close-mindedness to evolution within a system that is hindering the evolution and advancement of others. Stagnation and an un-willingness to change within a species generally leads to extinction within the Natural World.
Just to clarify @ Kevin – I know 0% of the people posting on here so your comment about “chums” is completely null and void. Just another outward sign of Islandic Nepotism or assumption thereof. And you also don’t know my educational,personal and employment background. I could be earning £6k a year, I could be earning £60k a year. THAT doesn’t matter, what DOES matter is a relevant,cogent, logical argument instead of trying to poke holes in your opponents/debaters.
@ Guern :
“I understand that there are teaching posts that are coming up in January that still have not been advertised,WHY?!”
Perhaps the suggestion that they HAVE been filled as an “under the table deal” in return for Political support, should be put ON the table?
I shall sign off (for now) on a couple of quotes, the first is from one of my favourite writers/thinkers >
“Advance, and never halt, for advancing is perfection. Advance and do not fear the thorns in the path, for they draw only corrupt blood.”
Khalil Gibran
“The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It will be the person who does not know how to learn.”
Alvin Toffler
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Blow-in Boy
If what you say is correct this must be an area that the guy who is looking into education should start at.
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blow in boy
Wow!
may I suggest you direct your rhetoric at Rachel for it was she who assumed you were a highly educated profesional (god knows why), it was she who related to your education e.t.c. frankly I think your post is the biggest load of bu*****T I’ve seen on this site. Rachel your response please.
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Blow-in boy
Thanks for your comments – I tend to agree with you.
I just hope this issue is addressed somehow.
I think Deputy Steere has been on the right track with dealing with the inequality as best she can. She has had to work within the 11+ framework and the housing laws as they are and any other Education Minister would have these obstacles too. Also notable is that she sent her children to High Schools and she therefore has a personal interest.
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Parent A
It looks like you have not grasped the problem it is not Carol Steere, but the staff who work in the education department, and to say that the 11 plus and housing are a part of the problem is only putting smoke screens up to the root cause of the real problem.To put a name to all this Derek Neale should resign with out delay and should be followed by a number of the other dead wood in education.
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Guern
Maybe you are right.
Maybe you have grasped the problem but you could be wrong too.
I just think its morally wrong to blame individuals.
I think Guernsey’s circumstances, for various reasons, have not been conducive to getting good academic results from the High schools.
Lets look at another angle/smoke screen, what incentive is there for students who are less academic when they know that Guernsey has very low unemployment and they can walk into a job in virtually any industry here with minimal qualifications? Its an employee market.
Thanks for your comment.
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Guern
You have hit the nail firmly on the head. Derek Neale must go. His record in recent years is appalling. He has lots of awkward questions to answer.
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Parent A
….Guernsey has very low unemployment and they can walk into a job in virtually any industry here with minimal qualifications? Its an employee market.
I think you must have had your head in the sand for the past couple of years. I agree that the situation you describe prevailed for many years however, recently, this has not been the case. Jobs are scarce to come by and many of the kinds you describe are snapped up by non locals.
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ParentA / Carol? – its getting boring!
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Burdock
Jobs are less scarce here than the UK where students are maybe more motivated.
I’m not convinced that locals have to compete with non locals for jobs they want in Guernsey.
Thanks for your feedback.
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