Social Security hires a permanent office guard
Monday 17th October 2011, 2:30PM BST.
Matt Birtwistle, left, and Lee Clarke of Maximum Security, which has been contracted to provide a full-time presence at Edward T. Wheadon House, Social Security’s headquarters. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 1188614)
SOCIAL SECURITY has hired a permanent security presence to clamp down on intimidating behaviour by some clients.
The department has contracted Maximum Security following the retirement of its special constable.
A spokesman said SSD carried out a review of security provision within its public areas before deciding that a permanent presence was needed.
‘We’re convinced of the need for a full-time security presence. Regrettably, there have been occasions when callers to the Social Security offices have experienced bad behaviour in the public areas and have found the atmosphere intimidating.’
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No need for this, I would suggest that anyone causing trouble, is refused their social security benefits.
Simples really.
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This is just…I mean it’s…
How could they…
Speechless! Fix the result of the problem not the cause…
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If those people on benefits are intimidating or display any aggressive behaviour their benefits should be stopped. Why are people allowed to get away with this kind of behaviour?
If I went to my boss and became agressive and intimidating when asking for my wages I’m pretty sure I’d be shown the door! This is ridiculous!
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Lets see, hire of private security guard probably £1000 per week, purchase of 1 sign saying ” bad behaviour in the public areas will mean stoppage of all benefits paid for minimum of one year” about £30 for the sign – then again would they get permission to put up the sign from environment?….
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At what / whos cost ?
If their customers ! get unrily.. stop the benefits then theyt wont be customers anymore ! Simples !
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erm….isn’t that a job for the Police?….
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Surely, a large Alsation dog would have sufficed.
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What a waste of tax payers money.get rid of them the police station is only up the road .a button installed to go direct would have them there in an instant..
Better use of the tax payer money should be shown,lots of department are cutting costs .this is only adding to the costs .Anyone who causes trouble should not have any hand outs.
I am disappointed on this decision .
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I cannot believe this! As Mrs R and John T have posted, just stop their benny. Simple. That way you can save on the security and save on social security benefits at the same. It’s no wonder this department continues to fleece islanders with rising tax (sorry social security contributions) if this is their method of problem solving.
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This is one big joke i hope, to hire this security firm costs lots of money who makes these decisions whats wrong with cctv if people are playing up they can be filmed and money should be refused, its not rocket science.
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It would be nice to know how the price compares to employing two of their own staff permanently, and more productively doing other things as well as solely guard duties, but I guess we will never know. Outsourcing make the books balance artificially I think.
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OMG. Why are the working people of Guernsey being penalised again (I take it their services are coming out of the ever depleting coffers paid into by decent hard workers). These intimidating people should be taught how to act in a civilised manner by sending them on anger management training paid for by their benefits and until they act in a respectful manner they should not be allowed to claim any benefits.
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There are people in Guernsey who are afraid of claiming benefit because they don’t want to frequent SSD offices weekly because of the “variety” of claimants, and intimidation incurred. The employment of an official such as described here, can only be a step in the right direction. Maybe those who legitimately need income support or otherwise, will now feel completely at ease to frequent Edward T. Wheadon House.
And with any luck, those “unworthy” benefit-ers will be thrown out face first!
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I agree with all above. Its all a bit sad really that its felt necessary. Staff and other citizens should not have to go around their day feeling threatened.
Although it might be a good way of identifying those that need anger management or with poor social skills that could do with some therapy. Who knows… that could help them be more employable too.
I guess the proximity of the police station does not make a difference?
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Did I read correctly????
Should I have gone to Specsavers????
I can appriciate social Security not wanting to replace an OLD member of staff with a sub contractor, therefore saving the hard working tax payer of Guernsey a GIGANTIC amount of money in pension subs etc. But come on States!!!! Any person behaving in such a manner should automatically have their benifit stopped immidiately, police called and then prosecuted. What has happend to our society. This is madness. When will it stop? Will we ever come full circle and finnaly see the doo gooders of this world made to answer for the mess that they have created. Lets get real people. Lets get tough.
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Is it really correct to describe them as ”clients” or “customers”?
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STAN
You ask ‘who makes these decisions?’
I think the answer is
Deputy M H Dorey Castel
Deputy A H Brouard The West
Deputy M W Collins St Peter Port North
Deputy S J Ogier St Sampsons
and whoever replaced Deputy A R Le Lievre who sensibly jumped ship a couple of months ago
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It’s sad it has come to this but like everyone is saying those that kick off stop there benefits. what is this world coming too?. I bet these two Security guys are not cheap.
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@Sarah
These peeps kick of because they rr two lazy too get jobs. The to security security guards will be costs in the regional of abaot 1250 a week.
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like ewe say not cheep.
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Another guernsey shambles
RIP The Old guernsey
Those were the days,never to be returned though.
No wonder the exodus is at a all time high.
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Having worked at the Job Centre (a few years ago now), I agree a permanent security presence is required. The idea that stopping someone’s benefits if they are intimidating staff or using threatening behaviour doesn’t get them out of the building!
The idea of calling the police is logical but in one instance when i worked there it took the police 45 minutes to wander down the hill when they were called to assist with a claimant who was being violent.
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I agree that the employment of a security guard appears to be necessary to help prevent intimidating behaviour. I also agree, in part, that those claimants causing trouble should have their benefits cut. However, in my mind, the underlying problem goes far deeper than that.
I recently read that Social Security expenditure is on the way up, and I believe this highlights the necessity for the whole system to be overhauled.
The problem is that, in our society, there seems to be more and more unemployed people possessing intimidating behaviour whilst claiming benefits from the decent working citizens. I would be very surprised if I were the only tax payer wishing to stop subsidising such lazy and selfish individuals.
However, I do recognise that many of the claimants genuinely require support (such as those with dependants or health problems) and I do not have a problem with these individuals. I also recognise a slight increase in unemployment due to the current climate.
However, I would like to see those on long-term support, without disability or dependants, having their benefits slashed unless they contribute to community-based projects. These projects could be litter collection, assisting with the upkeep of communal gardens, or perhaps the cleaning/redecorating of public conveniences. Not only would this be an opportunity for the States to reduce expenditure by employing people to underake these tasks, but it would clearly assist those in long-term unemployment to raise their confidence and adopt a work ethic. Perhaps, if such a system was implemented, such ‘problem’ claimants would actually have some respect for others. It would undoubtedly decrease States expenditure and may also cause decline in petty crime as a by-product.
I firmly believe that, here in Guernsey, financial support is also not necessarily provided to the correct people. Why are benefits going to some claimants which cannot be bothered to work or contribute to the coffers, whereas other people are working all hours struggling to make ends meet whilst having to subsidise those particular ‘lazy’ claimants?
As a born local I am becoming increasingly annoyed with the States when I see and hear about some perfectly able claimants having the latest mobile phone or a new car, for instance, whilst expecting to live quite comfortably off the working person (the latter, more often then not, is struggling to make ends meet with the increasing cost of living).
The underlying issue here is therefore not only about intimidating behaviour from a minority of claimants, but about finding a more suitable balance with our benefits system. Therefore, I would like to see an overhaul of the benefits system NOW.
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The whole system is frustratingly long winded and just plainly wrong. No other place in a functioning society would place mothers, with young children in toe, amongst aggressive drug addicts, intoxicated alcoholics and especially convicted paedophiles. It is part and parcel of an average working day there.
Often there are people with social and mental health issues getting frustrated from waiting around for hours on end. The frustrated youngsters run around out of sheer boredom. This is not fair on them. It is high time mothers were separated from the undesirables for the sake of the innocent children. One needs to experience it to believe it. The current set up is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. It has been rapidly declining to where it is at now.
In all honesty it must present quite a convenient treat for the convicted paedophiles. Regardless of whether they have court orders banning them from public places frequented by youngsters. They can be assured of a fair few hours every week where their pleasures can be enjoyed sat in the warm with a number of children of different ages to give them food for thought.
The way it is managed is wrong on every level. It is unworkable. Like AK has already pointed out the culture needs addressing before the problems can start to be managed effectively. If something kicks off I don’t believe the security staff will be quick enough to stop a nutter with a knife or some other deadly weapon.
Genuine claimants are made to feel ashamed and devalued by the whole process. The staff are well aware of that. In a lot of cases they do just that to put people off.
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Pardon me, most comments appear to be from people who have never been upfront suffering threats or abuse from their “customers”
And replacing a SC with another won’t help much either
Cancel SSD payments? Presumably most of the threatened violence comes from the cheaters and frauds, so there is nothing to cancel!!!
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Has is occurred to Social Security that maybe a couple of suitable, respectable unemployed people they are currently paying benefits to could have fulfilled this role? Thereby easing the benefits bill all we tax payers subscribe to and offering employment and self respect. They are not by any means all a bunch of scroungers.
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I like pete groves’ idea of a large Alsatian. Although guernsey will only be able to afford a mongrel – how about a Bulldog-Shitzu cross? Would be quite apt for this situation.
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Isn’t it ironic that on several occasions staff fom social security have been removed from the building for being the trouble makers, I’ve personally spoke to 3 employes of maximum today all who say the security would not be needed if the people responsible for dealing with customers had a better atitude towards them, several thousand spent on security who is only able to call the police if something happens or training courses for the staff there at a cost of around 5k
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Im with Mikey on this one – its ok saying stop the benfits, but it doesnt help the clerk there who has been physically assaulted. I seem to remember tho old chap that worked there, butch, spotted and prevented an individual entering the building with a baseball bat under his coat – now if he hadnt of prevented this, who knows what that idiot might of done with the bat. Police cant always respond immediately, prevention is better then cure so hopefull the maxim guys will make people think twice before doing something silly.
I would of thought you lot would be happy that using a contractor means there isnt another 1 or 2 people on the CS payroll earning a gold plated pension????
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This is quite unbelievable. These scumbags crawl out of bed to get their supplementary and benefit cheques etc. that hard workers like myself have to give them against our will, and they have the audacity to behave badly and intimidate people and cost us more money hiring security. They’re collecting free money, what exactly do they have to complain about???
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I agree that stopping their benefit seems appropriate but I think you’ll find that this can’t be done, as they’re entitled to it and bad behaviour is not a legitimate reson to stop it. Happy to be proved wrong though!
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Have to agree with Mikeyt. The punishment would hardly be a deterrent, if anything, being told you’ve now lost your benefits will give you more of a reason to kick off?!
Not forgetting that denial of benefits will be subject to appeal and therefore MORE money spent on the civil servant paid to review it!
Any sort of perceived misappropriation of tax-payers’ money seems to provoke the right-wing in us all!
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“However, I would like to see those on long-term support, without disability or dependants, having their benefits slashed unless they contribute to community-based projects. These projects could be litter collection, assisting with the upkeep of communal gardens, or perhaps the cleaning/redecorating of public conveniences. Not only would this be an opportunity for the States to reduce expenditure by employing people to underake these tasks, but it would clearly assist those in long-term unemployment to raise their confidence and adopt a work ethic. Perhaps, if such a system was implemented, such ‘problem’ claimants would actually have some respect for others. It would undoubtedly decrease States expenditure and may also cause decline in petty crime as a by-product.”
this is called CEPS….and is already in place – read up about it first!!
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I am Bemused by bemused comment regarding saving the hard working tax payer of Guernsey a GIGANTIC amount of money. As we have not been told how much this exercise is costing,how do we know how much if anything is being saved. I still think having their own Special Constables with Police powers of arrest a more sensible way of protecting staff and public.
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“Stop being unruly Sir or we’ll stop your benefits”
Yes, I could really see that working in practice!
It’s a sad state of affairs that the staff at Social Security feel that they require the services of a ‘bouncer’
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Strange decision. Why replace a Special Constable with a night club doorman?
Surely the Special has more powers. I am sure they have the same powers as a full time copper.
If the only reason to have a doorman is to save money, it’s very short sighted.
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Can’t we pay benefits in kind or vouchers rather than cash anyway? Bring back ration books – people would have to register these at local shops where they could get supplies. Why should I subsidise the purchase of a brand new iPhone for some of the people to which you refer, when i am unable to do the same for my own children, even though I work full time? Something is very very wrong with this society and it is time the worm turned.
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Am I alone in finding these Security people rather provoking? I believe their presence will lead to more trouble not less.
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@ Sarnia expat
Hear hear!
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I’m in agreement with the above posters in that the system requires an urgent overhaul. I firmly believe that our current system has a huge amount to answer for in terms of it’s effect on education as well.
The problem is simple; those who have no true reason other than laziness feel entitled to free money. Those who have paid contributions all their lives and who genuinely require assistance feel ashamed to ask for what they are owed.
The solution to the first part of the problem is simple- it was mentioned above. Vouchers for clothes, tokens for utilities meters and a food box each week – made up of healthy ingredients, with enough to feed the family/individual for that long. Items like prams (for which there seems to be an increasing demand…) should be the most basic model, bought in bulk by the States, and exchanged for a voucher. THe principal of this is if you’ve never paid any money in, you don’t get money out.
You’ll notice this idea leaves no room for: a huge TV, 20 Royals a day, Sky subscription, trips to the pub, an Iphone + contract, tattoos, piercings, a pile of rapidly-discarded childrens toys on the front lawn, etc. These things are luxuries. I’m not judging people with the above things; I have some of them – but I earned them.
Guernsey has been too soft for too long; with the result that hale, healthy (ish) and otherwise able-bodied people feel that they are owed a living. Until they have to live without the luxuries (which are often discarded- free skips at Les Genats) then they simply have no incentive to work. An able-bodied claimant, then, should be made to sign on daily no later than 9 am, as if they were at work. Why should we pay someone to stay in bed? Those claiming disability benefit should be seen monthly by a doctor brought from the UK. That way theres no incentive for false or reckless diagnoses of ‘depression,’ a term which the healthy but lazy seem to abuse at will for a little more cash. I should clarify – I know genuine depression exists, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but it is being used as an excuse for laziness.
I found a quote somewhere the other day, which is sage advice: “you ‘deserve’ nothing.” Attitudes to this system need to change, or we’ll be making a rod for our own backs.
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The rumour is the states plan to place added security at the harbour and the airport to stop the exodus
PEEPS we are to smart for that
RIP THE OLD guernsey
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Ben, your joke made my tea come out of my nose!!
Bulldog-Shitzu…… love it!! B*llsh*t
in all seriousness, I decided that i would drop off my employees tax and ss cheques last week as I was in town and fancied a wander, plus I had a a couple of queries. The difference between the 2 offices could not have been more stark, the office that takes your money, was quiet, the people queued respectfully and were polite to the staff.
Down at the department that gives you money, upon arrival I was greeted by 2 smoking skinhead in the doorway blowing smoke over the entrants and what could only be described as a mess inside, people everywhere shouting, one bloke was even brazenly open about where he was heading when he got his money (his dealer)! They were very rude to the staff, but interspersed amongst this were people you would genuinely feel sorry for (the sickness benefit claimers who blantently didnt want to be there).
What that little experience told me, was the difference between the providers to society, the hard working people at the tax office, and the spongers, most of that rabble at EW house.
Doesnt solve the problem though, security guards are just a patch. Perhaps they shouldnt have made this public, and implemented the very good idea of pulling a fortnights benefit for troublemakers, the security guards are on premesis but hidden, and are only used when an irate scrounger becomes even more irate by the fact he has lost 2 weeks of dough.
That said, if the guards make visiting that hole any easier for the innocent, then its a good idea.
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@sarniaexpat
Excellent post, I couldn’t agree more!
And why is it that those on benefits always feel they are entitled to having everything new?! Second hand works just as well, my youngest child’s pram, cot and the majority of her toys were brought at car boots and NCT sales. Although I suppose if it’s not your own money that you have earned yourself by hard graft it’s easy to waste eh!
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Tax Payer, nice thought with the sign idea. The clients/customers can’t read!
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PD Falla – just for the record – could you please explain exactly WHAT the “Old Guernsey” was? is this before the Germans came and Guernsey woke up to the idea that there was a big old world out there, or after, when the Good Ole Guernseyman tripped off down to the Banks with their masses of Deutchmarks, before selling on the family homes to whoever could afford to buy them?
If you mean by “old” – you mean a better place with a bit of respect and better manners, then I am all for it. But lets not get blinded by rose coloured specs eh?
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pbfalla
You’re not smart enough to spell check what you’ve written before posting though.
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“An able-bodied claimant, then, should be made to sign on daily no later than 9 am, as if they were at work. Why should we pay someone to stay in bed?”
fair enough but do you want tp start work at 7am to start signing on the 100+ claims on UB? though not. Also there is a sign about bad behaviour not being tolerated.
I really disagree with the food voucher/payment in kind idea – you want to turn every claimant into a social pariah? it’s very Big brother.what if you were put in that position? God forbid your spouse dies or is hospitalised or you get made reduandant…you’d be very quick to change your tune if you had to make a claim. I am not saying all claimants are true deserving people however most are and unless you know each one personally I would suggest not making sweeping statements you can’t back up.
I am not a claimant by the way in case you start along that route.
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I feel I have to put a couple of people straight here.
I have worked for Maximum for around 8 years and in that time I have carried out a number of roles that are not classed as a “nightclub doorman”. I have worked in nightclubs yes and at present am on the door of a pub, however in addition to that I have done concert security, private parties, property security and even traffic duties.
Maybe some readers should investigate their comments before posting them as Maximum do much more than just Nightclubs, in-fact only 5 members of staff at Maximum regularly work on a nightclub.
And as for us security people being provoking? well you would soon be complaining if something did happen wouldn’t you.
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Ali – your post is well meaning, but rather flawed. It dosen’t take vouchers to make the people claiming benefits social pariahs. We know they already are! – they are not in the slightest bit worried about claiming benefits; in fact they relish the fact that it is us poor idiots who are funding their lifestyles. Why not make it more difficult for them? They contribute nothing to the island anyway. Make them do community service to claim their handouts.
I would have no qualms about going down to the Social Security department to claim any vouchers if I were in dire straits. Can I bring Class into the argument? I am a member of a distantly remembered breed of people, namely a happily married woman, married to the same man for nearly 30 years (yes, same man!) who has three children (yes, all from the same chap – amazing eh?) – who has worked since the age of 18.
I, my husband, and lots of other decent people are paying for the privilege of keeping these ineffectual, workshy morons to the lifestyle that they feel they are entitled – and I, for one am getting just a little peeved about it. How stupid must we, as a working island be, to keep on with this ridiculous charade?
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Ali
Re the voucher versus cash issue
Your post made me think that there may be some middle ground here.I would think that the staff at Wheadon House are fully aware of who the genuine claimants are and who the young fit and able scroungers are
I presume it would not be lawful to tatoo the word scrounger on the latter’s foreheads but I wonder if it is possible to pay benefits in cash to the genuine needy and vouchers to those who are milking the system
It would be a badge of dishonour having to purchase your fags,booze and trainers with vouchers so it might just have the effect of putting SOME of them off,but I suppose there will be a section in the disastrous human rights law against it
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Ali- my working day starts well before seven, as does a whole host of others. On the contrary, people need to feel stigmatised by claiming vouchers- as a motivation for breaking the cycle of idleness and getting a job. If you read my post again, it states that those who have paid money in, and then fall on hard times by bereavement or redundancy, would get money out to pay their mortgage, bills etc. Only those who have not contributed to the system would get vouchers and tokens. Life for professional scroungers needs to be made unpleasant, or just like is the case now, they have no incentive to get a job and have some self respect.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER for any able bodied person to be unemployed in Guernsey. There are thousands of jobs out there that are currently filled by immigrants because the local unemployed think they’re above such positions. As for hurting their feelings by giving them vouchers, oh the poor little lambs! They hurt my feelings every time I see how much social security I’m paying each month!
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Thanks Anonymous for your post, and I am sure your security firm provides a good service, but you are not Special Constables sworn in at the Royal Court and given police powers to protect this area, staff, and public. You have no powers of arrest and if you were assaulted the courts would class it as common assault and not assaulting an officer. You would also have to be very careful and act as only a barrier until the Police arrived, as we all know their human rights and freedom of speech etc etc must not be compromised. Thank you Europe
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Went in to GSSA yesterday.. not a Security Guard in sight ! They off already I guess !
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Ever seen the portrait of Edward Wheadon himself as you walk into the Social Security? He has (to my mind) a rather bemused grin on his face, rather like he is thinking, “What is going to happen today at this establishment bearing my name?” Wonder what he would think about all this? Just a thought! It is not a nice establishment and probably the worst of States Departments to work in but some of the staff there are dedicated and helpful, some are unfortunately not… but I think there does warrant some sort of security presence there and I think that everyday folk should feel safe when they go about their business in this establishment. What does it matter about how much it costs as long as everyone is safe?
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Although there is no excuse for bad behaviour, I wonder how much SS bring it on themselves.
A few years ago, I asked to meet with them to determine whether I should be called employed or self-employed. The first thing the guy did was to close the interview room door and lock it. He said it was to stop me ‘escaping’ – the gesture hardly spoke of trust and immediately had me nervous and edgy.
I was speechless and kept thinking ‘but I asked to meet you’.
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