Democracy gives right to choose transport mode
Saturday 22nd October 2011, 2:29PM BST.
ENVIRONMENT’S vision for its transport strategy has enraged car users.
Le Mont Saint Garage owner Dave Beausire (pictured) disagreed with the policy’s vision statement – that vehicle use was a privilege and not a right.
‘It is not a privilege to own a car – that has now become a right of any democratic society to have a choice of transport.
‘To consider taxing it will be detrimental to the island and the public,’ he said.
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Quite right Dave,
that Billet is full of codswallop and big brother communist claptrap.
What on earth will a bus lane from the Red Lion to Bulwer Avenue achieve apart from costing millions? And how would it work if it’s one lane? Is that in or out of town? And what happens when the new bigger buses meet each other?. (Yes bigger buses are mooted) And how do the buses rejoin the traffic stream? More traffic lights?
The only thing that might make the slightest sense is an MOT and that’s rejected ! You couldn’t make it up.
I would like the whole Billet sent back for reconsideration.
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When the oil runs out it will be a luxury.
Time to plan for a non petrol future now.
Anyway the best way, I believe, to improve the transport situation is to make the penalties for traffic law infringement punitive : Life ban for drink driving, 10 years for no insurance, speeding
5 years etc – thus better standards of driving and less volume on rosds.
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Chris. I agree with you apart from the MOT bit. When most people over here aren’t even capable of driving at the speed limit, bumbling along at a monotonous 30mph, its just not necessary.
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How about a PRT trial for Guernsey
It would cost Billions to implement, and take many years and would suck up a heck of a lot of power from our electricity grid, but we wouldnt have a traffic problem anymore.
Its the perfect vanity project, right up Bernies street.
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Calling all middle-aged people. Do you want to be richer and less fat?Course you do- everybody does. You know you can’t really afford your car – hardly anybody can. Yet, you buy one anyway- everybody does.
However, just think what you could do with that extra £300 per month you’re spending decorating your garage. You could dream about sending your kids to university without them being drowned by debt before they start work. You could start fantasizing about a well-funded retirement. You already fear that you need to be working until you’re 70 and you know, at current increasing life-expectancy rates, you are going to live to be at least 105.
Now, stand up. Look at your toes. You can’t see them, can you?Don’t worry nobody your age can. Just imagine if you got into the habit of walking/cycling every day. Within a year you would be looking like a hungry teenager again (albeit from a distance).
Which is why you should give this transport strategy document a chance. It readily admits it is not the final version but its vision statement is as breathtakingly bold as it will be unpopular. It will receive bad comment. It forces people to confront their inner sloth and the car lobby is very powerful. But just think if you felt safe and not weird about, say, cycling to work and that, for example, large employers had to have adequate changing facilities. Not only would feel be richer and thinner, you would also have the lungs of a young Matthew Pinsent.
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I and many others have no choice but to use a vehicle because of the amount of tools we have to carry around with us. Its expensive enough to live over here without being penalised with more unnecessary taxes. The politicians dont care as they know there are plenty of cheap eastern Europeans mascarading as tradesmen who will take on our jobs for a fraction of the price. More taxes will just fuel inflation if they choose to use the time served local craftsmen.
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I don’t know why people get so hot under the collar about it, it’s just another load of rubbish like the 25 mph speed limit. One thing is plain though there’s people somewhere with nothing better to do.
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hobbesvlocke – good post. if employers have changing/shower facilities it is remarkably easy for most office workers to cycle, jog or walk to work regardless of the weather.
blogger – so are the “cheap eastern Europeans mascarading as tradesmen” not subject to the same costs and expenses as you? Of course they are. Can they somehow find food, fuel and lodging at mainland Europe prices? Of course not. I think you need to think again about why you are being undercut on price…
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Pete – I disagree. The 25mph limit was stupid because if you need to drive (and some will always NEED to drive most of the time, and everyone will NEED to drive some of the time) then a blanket 25mph limit is too slow in many places. However, we should be better about using cars less often, and/or using smaller cars, and/or using electric cars. A properly co-ordinated transport strategy needs to be put in place.
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So my choice from Environment is a nice giant bus too big for our tiny roads packed with people I don’t know, that doesn’t travel in the direction I want at the times I need (but is surrounded by fluffy bunnies, flowers and rainbows, when they aren’t broken down obviously).
Cycling, which will get me to work sweaty (as a teacher, being called ‘Mr B.O. would not go down well), soaked if it’s raining, splashed by cars if its been raining, or run over by a giant bus. None of which will do the heavy backpack full of marking and laptops I have to transport too and from work every day much good.
Walking – see above in ‘Cycling’,
Car – goes where I want, when I want, not easy to park at either end, but is comfy and warm and dry and I can splash cyclists and walkers if its raining. As my ridiculous V8 car only does 14mpg it costs over £5 a day in fuel alone and I have 4 empty seats I am transporting along with me. (similar to all the empty seats in the giant buses)
Scooter – goes where I want, when I want. With the right clothing I laugh at rain, I can overtake cyclists and walkers without getting sweaty, I can carry my heavy backpack as I am sitting down and only have to move my hands occasionally and lean, costs £5 a week as it gets close to 100mpgh and parking anywhere is not an issue. For the last year I’ve chosen the scooter whenever possible. maybe I do not look as dashing on it at age 46 as I would if I were 18, but I may add a Biggles style flying scarf to my ensemble which will make all the difference.
The bottom line is; I can make my own decisions on transport, I really don’t need Environment’s Vision or guidence. They did buy giant ‘incongrous with the surroundings’ buses after all.
Maybe Bermuda’s idea of ‘One car, but as many scooters as you want’ would work for me, but I certainly wouldn’t impose it on anyone else as my ‘Vision’.
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How depressing.
Environment, elected by the people to act in the public interest, raises the prospect of doing something useful to mitigate the impact of traffic, and they are immediately decried as ‘eco-nazis’ depriving us of our human rights.
Dave Beausire, a man elected by a consortium of car salesmen with the mandate of maximizing their profits, pops up to parrot his mantra which is, as always, ‘keep buying cars’, and nobody seems to suspect the slightest thing is amiss…
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Calling all middle-aged motor trade workers.Do you want to be poorer and less fat? Then vote yourself out of a job and join the ever growing unemployment line at Wheadon House
While you’re waiting for your dole money think about how much your vehicle has been devalued in a collapsed second hand market and how your dole money is under threat because of the loss of petrol tax, but spare a thought too about what you could do with that extra £300 per month you’re not spending on your vehicle.It would go some way to buying all the cough and cold remedies you will require after a succession of regular soakings in the winter months.It would go some way towards the cost of all those extra ready meals you will need to buy due to the extra travel time walking or cycling up our hilly terrain,while those who have chosen not to follow your example chug along behind you at a steady 6MPH
You could dream about sending your kids to regular chiropractor sessions to straighten their backs after lugging books,Tubas and hockey sticks to and from school each day
Now stand up.Look at your toes.You can’t see them can you? That’s because you lost them to frostbite as you bravely ploughed your way in the February snow through gritted teeth.Just imagine if you got into the habit of walking / cycling every day.Within a year you would be looking like a haggard skeleton aged 105 (albeit from close up)
Which is why you should kick this latest transport strategy document into touch.It is nothing more than a vehicle for the Environment Minister to pass away his last few months in post without having to make actual painful decisions which in truth he is most likely personally against anyway
No doubt some States members will be very disappointed with this latest offering but PLEASE don’t replace Peter Sirett with Gollop or De Lisle(again)out of sheer spite
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blogger
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
Methinks Peter Sirett will have to find something else to amuse himself with come April!
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Blogger – don’t forget that these Eastern Europeans also have to pay for Open Market properties and they still can offer cheaper prices…
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John- Its true that most of them live in open market properties but I think you will also find that for each property they live in there are also many others like them in the same property which means their rents are low. If the states allowed your work sector to be flooded with cheap labour would you be prepared to take a pay cut? Mortgages and rents dont get cheaper so why should my pay rates?
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@ Forest
I hear Island Coachways are looking for drivers. Seeing as Mr Sirett thinks the bus service is so wonderful and adequate for the needs of our Island he should apply. It’s high time he got back in touch with the real world instead of burying his head in the sand and sulking.
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blogger
There are restrictions how many persons can live in one open market flat, so cheapest you could find is £ 600 a month for one person sharing a flat with somebody else (+ bills).
Yes, I am prepared to take a pay cut and by the way it’s called competition. If you can’t offer new products or cheaper price then you will loose customers.
Open market rent doesn’t get cheaper as well, prices just rise. So it’s 21st century – you have to stay competetive.
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Rumours suggest, there is now a huge demand for plastic ducks.
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@Terry Langlois
Re: “I think you need to think again about why you are being undercut on price…”
The BIG difference Terry is most locals have Mortgages, children etc and are here for the longterm, with all due respect Non-Locals are not. I know this because I employ 3 Madeirans who quite openly admit to working all the hours they can then going back home in 4or 5 years to reap the rewards.
A MUCH bigger problem is Non-Local Subcontractors working over here, which has to be addressed as they contribute nothing to the community ie: Apprenticships, Cahrity Donations, Taxes etc etc.
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Forest – so actually, what you don’t like is having to compete against people who choose to live in a small rented flat, not have kids, not give to charity and work all hours that god gives? that’s a bit different from what blogger was complaining about – he was complaining about eastern europeans undercutting him, as if they live in a parallel universe of paying less for the same stuff. If they choose to spend less, that’s their choice, and it’s just life. The same would apply to any local lad doing the same thing.
I’d be interested to hear how the sub-contractors avoid paying tax, unless they are only here for a short period.
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John
So you think that wages should be driven down while everything else increases in price. Thats a sure fire way to mass poverty/homelessness.
I dont see why I am expected to compete with people doing the same job as me when they are being paid £7 to £10 an hour. I am a skilled craftsman with many years experience as opposed to the ‘opposition’ who, in the main, are lacking skill, experience and tools. These people seem to think its ok to ‘borrow’ any tool they need. Any craftsman worth his salt will have a full compliment of tools which need to be maintained and upgraded as technology advances. This doesnt come cheap.
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So forest
Maybe non locals are not here for the long term however you happy to employ them WHY
Because they work harder than any local, you pay them less, you dont pay them holidays or sick pay
and for the record im sure many of the maderians you employ may have mortgages back home or family to support.
If you island means so much employ locals but you wont cause we work harder and better
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@johnsmith
They have been here for 12 years and in my employ for 4 years. I can assure you they get paid trhe same as my local staff, get 4 weeks holiday a year, sick pay, have the same terms & conditions etc. They have contributed massively to local Tax intake. They pay £1,330 a month EACH for their OPEN market flat which they are happy to do. The reason I employ them (I have 23 staff, 20 are local born including myself) is a lot of our work is outside normal hours and involves more than just the one skill which they can provide. It also keeps my clients happy which in turn gives us a good supply of work and helps keeps the rest of us in work. Much different to say a project like St Peter Port School currently being undertaken by a huge amount of Non-Local sub contractors and creating a lot of discontent in the local industry at present.
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blogger – in which case they are not really competing with you, are they? you just need to make sure that your extra skills and experience are advertised so that the punters choose to pay more to employ you. The only reason you are complaining about cheap labour is because, presumably, the punters don’t know (or value) the difference and opt for the cheaper alternative. It is up to you to make them see it differently.
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@Terry Langlois
I think you misunderstood. Most of the Local Tradesmen are already committed to large Mortgages unlike the imported labour therefore they can survive on much less.
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“Calling all middle-aged people. Do you want to be richer and less fat?”
Great quote, hobbesvlocke. In my case, this is true. I’ve saved about £800 this year and I’ve lost quite a few pounds as a result of riding to work every day. I also get to work roughly ten minutes quicker than if I drove as I have to travel along the front.
There are many, many who’re just lazy. They have a shorter distance to travel than I do, and yet they’re in their cars.
Sucks for them, they’re essentially shooting themselves in the foot.
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Forest – I don’t think I misunderstand at all. Basically, if a local lad finished an apprenticeship, borrowed his dad’s van and tools, lived in his parents’ home for nominal rent and started to undercut the prices of tradesmen with mortgages, you (and blogger) would think that unfair. It’s not, it’s life.
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Owner of a motor business opposes proposals to reduce car use. Today’s other shock headline – turkeys vote against Christmas.
Of course there are people who legitimately need to use motor vehicles in their daily lives however for every one of them there’s probably a dozen who don’t. We own a motor vehicle and would find life pretty difficult without one – if we were forced to sell it though it would be mighty inconvenient but we would survive.
The problem as I see it is that the majority of people want less cars on the road however they want a solution that doesn’t inconvenience them in any way. They complain about traffic jams on the way to work but won’t condescend to find alternative transportation – I know, I’ve been there! It’s fine to inconvenience other people of course, just not ourselves.
To my mind the people of Guernsey need to make a simple choice: either accept the amount of cars on the road or accept some inconvenience.
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Terry Loin Sag
What would the local lad’s dad do for a living whilst his nipper swanned off with his van and tools?
Why shouldn’t our local offspring have greater aspirations after completing their apprenticeships than living at their parents’ home and borrowing the tools of their trade?
And the St Peter Port School project which Forest alludes to has already meant that one long established local employer is now considering not taking on any more apprentices. Having not had the opportunity to bid for work which local tradesmen could quite easily resource and perform, and then to see UK subcontractors being brought in by the [allegedly local] main contractor to do this work, he is quite understanably totally disillusioned to say the least. And bear in mind that the building being renovated under this scheme is ultimately intended to be used for training apprentices. Ironic or what?
When the off-Island lot return home [which they will - as they have done from the UK when things have picked up in Poland - the Olympic Park labour shortages being but one example] where will our skill base come from?
There is a distinction to be drawn between the long term resident immigrants such as those employed by Forest, who contribute to the local tax intake etc. as much as those of us who are here permanently, and the labour brought in for the short term by locally based large construction firms who contribute nothing other than a few months bar takings.
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Nice one Toto. Way to go.
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Isn’t this whole debate about local v non-local tradesmen a total red herring? It doesn’t matter whether you are Lenny Le Page or Johnny Foreigner, any taxes or disincentives on motorists are going to affect both equally, and let’s face it, the extra costs are simply going to be passed straight onto the customer.
Still, I can’t resist pointing out that blogger’s problem is already well studied – he’s selling cherries in a lemons market:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons
The solution is for the local tradesmen to club together to put together a decent trade directory, publish their rates and charging structure, publish their references, build trust with the public and weed out the cowboys. Or lobby C&E to help them do it.
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Environemts vision for its transport strategy has enraged car users read the headline. Or to state the reality of it, more pie in the sky leads to excess hot air over nothing. Forget it. it’ll never happen.
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