Why should we aspire to UK mediocrity?
Thursday 27th October 2011, 1:00PM BST.
DEPUTY Robert Sillars pledged to tackle any problems within Education after he won a seat on the department yesterday.
And he wants Guernsey to target higher standards than it currently achieves.
He becomes the second new member of Education as the fallout from the release of falling GCSE results continues.
An independent review is under way to investigate the underlying causes of what has been described as a basic failure of public service.
‘I’m a new set of eyes coming in. I have a completely open mind, I’m aware of the rumours but I need to make my own mind up and need to do that as quickly as I can,’ said Deputy Sillars (pictured).
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Why should we aspire to UK mediocrity?
Isn’t that just another way of saying ‘Why should we follow their dumbing down route by abandoning the 11+?
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lets hope he isn’t “Steered” in the wrong direction
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Ray
Precisely – why would anyone want to encourage a race to the bottom (no saucy remarks please)?
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AS usual with Ray
All roads lead to the 11+
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Will he be driving to Education in his Maserati with Martin Clunes by his side?
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A couple of interesting points arise from the main article in the GP.
Firstly, it’s another bloody nose for Deputy Steere whose preferred candidate was rejected in favour of Deputy Sillars, a man who incidentally wanted the entire Education Board replaced. One really does wonder how much longer she can cling on to office.
Second is Deputy Sillars’ strong public support of the 11+ system. Does this appointment indicate the current States support of the current system?
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He said that old brain teaser again -”The 11+ is just an indication… its not a failure if you don’t pass”
Surely anyone who supports the 11+ feels there is success to be had if you do pass so why doesn’t it work both ways?
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I applaud Deputy Sillars’ approach in asking whether Education should cease comparing itself with the UK and, instead, look further afield at more successful jurisdictions. He is the first education minister I have heard promote this loftier aspiration.
@Ray,In terms of “dumbing down route by abandoning the 11plus”, I would make the following comment.
There is a perception that educational standards in the UK declined following the abolition of the 11plus. This may be correct or it may not. There are a few issues to consider before coming to conclusion, including:-
the affect the various economic crises of the sixties (which rendered various UK governments incapable of investing sufficiently in the new comprehensive system) had on academic performance.
the degree to which results were influenced by the change from the disciplined teaching of the fifties (in which children were viewed as a receptacle to be filled with knowledge) compared to the modern approach of the sixties in which children were perceived as being full of innate potential waiting to be unlocked.
In this matter, I hope Deputy Sillars’ self-proclaimed “open mind” will allow him to perhaps revisit his self-proclaimed firmly held support of the 11plus system.
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Educational is the single most important key to success for Guernsey’s long term. It drives competitiveness, new business formation, the democratic debate and reduces crime. We should import best practise from anywhere in the world that has shown its efficacy. Even the UK if need be. Unfortunately, UK best practise is highly diluted. Its not just 11+ or not, but an in depth and continuous review of improvements that can implemented in Guernsey.
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Hobbesvlocke
Good post
I agree Guernsey should look to the wider world for best culture in education which is not necessarily to be found in the UK however I hope that open minded Deputy Sillars acknowledges that Guernsey has unique circumstances due to its governance, laws and geography.
With the November statistics debate, the Mulkerrin review and Deputy Stillars input hopefully the Guernsey public will eventually drop their unhealthy obsession with the UK GCSE benchmark.
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This reminds me of
“Aim for the sky and you’ll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you’ll stay on the floor.”
To that end end I admire Sillars stance, I truly beleive that Guernsey could have an education system the envy of many.
However it musnt be forgotten that we currently struggle to acheive what Sillars refers to as Mediocre, which is a measure of how far we need to travel.
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when looking at the educational league table of europe I think you’ll find most of the countries ahead of the u.k. do not have a selection at 11 process. I wonder what that means for us?
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ParentF
10 out of 10 but effort, but instead of dogma / loyalty you might do better to open your eyes and mind to alternative views.
As many including myself has said elsewhere you appear to be an apologist for CS – Your posts are now beyond mildly amusing and worryingly becoming a cracked record.
Pray tell me what do you think the purpose of the Education Department is and what should be its vision?
Jack
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Jack
I am flattered that I still have your attention but I need to be in the A*-C range therefore ParentF is unacceptable :-)
I am loyal to no one. Thanks for the advice but I consider myself more open minded than most. Evidently I am an apologist for deputy Steere – so what? Rather that than be a sheep.
Very good question
I think the purpose of the education department is to facilitate the progress of every child towards their individual potential and to promote lifelong learning. Its vision should be to overdeliver on all expectations within whatever criteria is decided upon.
Disclaimer: if there is any similarity between my opinion and the education department mission statement (if there is such a thing) this is purely coincidental.
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If the 11+ had been abolished 10 years ago and a comprehensive system introduced into the island. We would be being told in no uncertain terms what is responsible for the islands poor education results.
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Parent A,
Agree that Guernsey has to make massive strides just to reach the abysmally low UK threshold. However, what are the unique circumstances of Guernsey? Unless of course you mean the inability of the Island to apply housing licensing rules which would allow greater continuity of teaching staff.
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Cheerful Charlie
I think the benchmark is flawed and the UK threshold is misleading.
The Housing law is one unique factor yes. The continuity problem caused by the licensing system is a small part of this. I think the law makes it difficult to attract the best international teachers because newcomers face unfavourable terms against locals. We are obliged to employ and promote local teachers wherever possible therefore normal competition rules are lacking.
Another factor is our very low unemployment and the effect this has on motivation and interests of local children. Again this is a matter of lack of competition. UK candidates with more than 5 A* grades including maths and english will not get their foot in the door with most jobs here and an employer may have to settle for a local candidate with say 5 F pass grades.
The 11+ is another factor.
I don’t know to what extent these things have affected the current grades but I think they are worth bearing in mind. I’m interested to hear what others think.
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ParentA
Nice to see that you aspire to be in the A* – C range but in one of your posts you pointed out that Grade F and Grade G are classed as passes
(and therefore something to be proud of?)
Unless I’m mistaken a 30% mark will earn you an F grade and you would need to reach the dizzy depths of 20% to gain a G grade
Couple that with the alleged downgrading of question difficulty and the fact that if you have a note to show that your cat died within 24 hours of sitting the exam you will get extra marks,shouldn’t the whole discredited system be ditched?
It all started to go wrong when liar Blair announced his intention to lead the world with at least 50% of all UK students going to University
A noble aim except that the real reason behind it was to keep a cap on the unemployed numbers while he was in power.This led to the introduction of ‘plastic’ Universities doling out useless plastic degrees which employers recognise for what they are
Let Guernsey start afresh with a new honest system to lead the world!Sorry I’m straying outside of the box now
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Ray
I don’t know whether your figures are correct but I wouldn’t be surprised and I’m grateful that you have given me something more to think about.
Its similar to the argument that not passing the 11+ isn’t failing.
I would agree that a pass awarded to any exam result which was only 20% correct seems like nonsense. Maybe the justification is that if 20% of what has been taught has been learned then at least something has been achieved.
I think the key to the riddle is in the aspirations of children. They need to achieve their potential whatever that might be with the focus rightly on the achievement. There are other statistics which measure how much value has been added by the education system and I think this is what should be used to judge the system.
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Ray
I love your outside of the box thinking just as much as Mr de la Mare’s. Why not aspire to these things? Maybe they will find oil when digging up the airport ;-)
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Just a thought – and not really relevant to this particular thread – has the teacher’s family been shipped back to the UK yet? They seem to have gone very quiet and I wonder if anyone knows?
it always amazed me that Guernsey thinks itself somewhat superior to the UK. Why exactly? We have no excuse here whatsoever of having any child not achieving the highest qualifications possible; we are not multi-racial so we cannot blame that factor; we are not a poor Island, so we cannot lay the blame on that. Guernsey is very good at passing the buck, blaming everyone else on its poor showing at exam time.
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Ray
at the risk of taking on an intellectual giant like yourself could you please comment on the fact that nearly all the countries ahead of us in the european league table of education do not have selection.
same applies to pete
prove me wrong if you can.
Great to see that you have all ignored the fact that that the u.k. counts a NVQ as four gsce passes we don’t do them in our schools.
sarnia expat
the states will not risk a precedent that’s why it’s all gone silent on the lecturer’s case. Happens all the time.
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Hi Kevin
I hope you don’t look upon this forum as having to ‘take on’ anybody,this is just healthy debate /opinion.You are clearly totally against the 11+ while I say it did me no harm at all
I get all my information from the Daily Mail so I can’t be far wrong,especially as they don’t give a fig about Europe either
I hope the guy carrying out the investigation into the local education scene is reading these posts as there appears to be considerable useful inside information coming out in some of them
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I applaud Rep Sillars optimism, however, I would imagine his aspirations will not be made, or become apparent until there is a change of Government; Had he had his way Education would have gone their sorry way. He is there purely to prevent Education’s choice being elected to committee, not for his ability to do the job.
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ParentA
“I think the purpose of the Education Department is to facilitate the progress of every child towards their individual potential and to promote lifelong learning”.
What you ‘fink’ students need to achieve a successful education, and what they actually require to be purposeful employees in the work place are entirely different.
As an employer I am not interested at how a 16 yr old student participated in a lesson when a clown with big floppy shoes came to school and performed a lesson on how to count; what I want is someone who is profecient at working out BASIC percentages, ratios and how to compose a report that bears a remote resemblence to the task in hand.
Education needs to turn away from what gives teachers an easy life into a measurable exercise so students who enter the work place are in possession of the most basic skills employers, and the tax payer require to make the Island prosperous.
Education, life long learning whatever you want to call it is not an end itself; there MUST be a measurable outcome when the party comes to an end. At the moment Steere and co are failing miserably at delivering the outcome that is required.
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Town Dweller
What you fink students actually require to be purposeful employees in the work place is based on the assumption that all employers have your selection criteria which is clearly a flawed argument as the workplace can be any place not just an office as you suggest. You may be surprised to hear there is a purposeful job entitled “clown”.
Your argument fails to take into account that nobody can exceed their potential and surely the party comes to an end no sooner than death.
Steere & co might not be fulfilling your heart’s desire but surely the question should be whether they are fulfilling their objectives.
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Stiletto
I suspect these aspirations will only be realised when pigs sprout wings.
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Stiletto – agree your analysis
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@Kevin
The UK fails in multiple league tables; teen pregnancies, alcohol consumption, education – take your pick.
I can understand why Guernsey follows the UK model; most of them trained there, policies written in common tongue and curriculum is adoptable.
But why we slavishly follow every mad cap idea that eminates from that country and its broken system needs reviewing.
Take the best, lose the rest
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Parent A
You say: “Steere & co might not be fulfilling your heart’s desire but surely the question should be whether they are fulfilling their objectives.”
We can safely deduce the answer to your question from the fact that, immediately after the dismal results from LMDC and SS were made known, an enquiry into the whole stinking mess was announced.
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ParentA
what if my erstwhile student wants to leave my employ and work elsewhere, where wait for it, they may have to count and actually write a comprehensive report of more than 200 words!!
I’m afraid you must be a teacher or at least a civil servant; i.e. have no idea the workplace is an evolving organism that must respond to change or die. My argument is flawed? Tell me how many jobs there are which do not require numeracy and literacy?
People like me are dependent on a versatile workforce. Unless students have the most BASIC skills how the hell are they supposed to get a job and me be able to run an efficient business?
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Georgia
Or you could look at it the other way and say the review is necessary in order to safely vindicate the alleged failure of LMDC and StS.
Achieving the UK GCSE benchmark was never the objective of the high schools and it is grossly unjust that the reputations of these schools and consequently the pupils and staff who attend them are being tarnished because of this misconception.
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Town Dweller
I’m not a teacher or civil servant. Sorry if I misunderstood your point.
Numeracy and Literacy are probably fundamental requirements for modern western life but the UK GCSE benchmark statistic is not.
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