Dozen armed police at knife incident
Wednesday 23rd November 2011, 2:30PM GMT.
Two armed police officers rush from one of the force’s BMW armed response vehicles yesterday afternoon. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1201024)
ARMED with guns and carrying riot shields, more than a dozen police rushed to a St Sampson’s property yesterday afternoon.
Both of the force’s recently acquired BMW armed response vehicles, each filled with officers, arrived at Rondhurst Court, Ronde Cheminee, off Nocq Road which leads from the Bridge, just after 2.15pm.
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Oh dear .. the only logical excuse is that they are under orders to treat every such incident as a live training exercise
Either that or we should cut down on sending senior officers to Bramshill
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Here we go again, wade into a domestic situation with a massive show of unnecessary force. All the expensive new toys deployed and scaring the public with automatic weapons.
False alarm, so no harm done? Well that’s fine except with this level of response now being the norm it’s only a matter of time before we’ll see in Guernsey what has tragically happened elsewhere with armed Police pumped up and running on adrenaline completely misreading harmless situations and shooting/ spraying/ Tasering completely innocent people.
How do you fancy being shot dead for carrying a table leg, or shot and pistol whipped for being confused with an escaped prisoner? What about being Tasered for being diabetic……………………?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Stanley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf_shooting
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1255094/A-commuter-diabetic-coma-new-weapon-immobilise-suspect-20-seconds-The-shocking-truth-Tasers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom
And if you really want a scare start looking into what happens in the USA………
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You’ve got to love the local plod – a woman is MAYBE going to harm herself, therefore quite possibly she’s in a troubled mental state. The answer is to obviously send a dozen armed officers waving guns around and causing general mayhem, that’ll be just the thing to do to calm her down. I agree with eggy bread, it’s only a matter of time before one of the Rambo wannabees shoots somebody, and who will be responsible then? Oh yeah, that’s right, nobody. It’s about time that someone took reponsibility for the police’s actions, the current situation is a very unfunny joke.
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@ Eggy bread.
Read this..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15803860
Still think it was an over reaction?
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Yes. I still think it was an over reaction. Completely different and seperate unrelated incidents.
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Not even slightly similar, that was Police officers chasing a suspect that then ran into a butchers and grabbed a knife off the staff.
Nothing like bursting into a troubled women’s house with a sub machine gun based on a phone call.
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So this woman is holding a knife and threatening to harm herself, so they send in more than a dozen (I heard 15) officers armed with guns. What are they going to do? Shoot her? I think the police are going to get some stick for this one. What a ridiculous waste of resources. The only way I can see this response being justified is if it was treated as a training excercise, but wouldn’t that be a little insensitive?
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Guernsey police, please stop wasting my hard earned tax money on these stupid stunts. If you want to play with guns then join the army.
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love you answer ??? but you have hit the nail on the head ??
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It just never happened when i was a lad.
RIP The guernsey we once knew.
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Some Bloke,
If Mohamed Qasim hadn`t been allowed to immigrate into this country the man wouldn`t have got his hands on the knife to stab these officers. His shop wouldn`t have been there.
I think Eggy Bread`s four examples outweigh your one. None of the police in your example died. I think they deserve bravery awards because I don`t think there are many of us that would do what they did.
The local incident is total over reaction to a situation that probably a single police woman would have been able to handle very easily.
I think Eggy Bread is spot on and it`s only a matter of time before bullets will be claiming an innocent person`s life AND IT COULD BE YOURS.
DEPUTIES OF THE STATES OF GUERNSEY, STOP THIS NOW AND CENSURE THE POLICE CHIEF. I MEAN NOW.
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Fair enough. Point taken.
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over reaction once again i expect seeing how many turned out for this domestic they couldnt have had much on that day its a joke
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Don’t police cars have those snooty black and silver Guernsey number plates then?
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/1201024_475.jpg
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“snooty”???
all number plates in Guernsey can be black with silver, the yellow/white with black are also acceptable, according to the law that is
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wow what can one say,a complete joke,them two guys coming out of there expensive bmw,now my old man was in the met police in london,and transferred to gsy,but always said,these cops need to spend time in london,manchester,and so on,to see what real life is all about,but hey u know thats the states of (joke),sorry gsy,spend more time on the streets talking to the young people,as they did when i was young,clip round the ear and home,RESPECT;as it was then,come on gsy!!!!!!!!
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I’m glad I was made redundant earlier in the year and am currently unemployed as I have paid no tax towards this joke of a police force and it’s latest toys. I so LOATHE the Guernsey Police and am desperate to (but can’t afford to) move away because of them.
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This is not central London, although even if it were sending 15 men in guns blazing to an anonymous phonecall later proved to be erroneous has to be wrong and a complete overreaction. The irony being of course that the biggest crimes ever committed in the history of the western world happened on his watch in the City of London. Maybe if financial crime had been cracked down on as harshly during his time in office then the Landsbanki savers wouldn’t have lost any money?
If this had happened before his reign this supposed incident wouldn’t even have been newsworthy as NOTHING HAPPENED. But NO. What do we have but 15 would be Rambos or Robocops running around the bridge with guns.
1. We should all be fearing for our lives should one of these cops in their ‘fast response units’ meet a perceived threat or some kind of resistance to their misplaced authority.
2. The situation of who the Police are actually accountable to needs legally sorting out BEFORE a tragedy occurs.
3. I would like the Police Chief to come on here and directly justify why we are now seeing so many armed responses to incidents that are’t even resulting in minor prosecutions.
I consider the danger that we are now appear to be in going about our lawfull day to day business whether in our own homes or in public being fatally interrupted by a Police over reaction the most important here. After that however I have to revert to being a tax payer and ask exactly how much is this all costing?
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Again,words fail me, another absolutely ridiculous and totally unnecessary show of force and public intimidation by those total idiots in the Guernsey Police force.
The scary thing is the general lack of firearms exposure by any of these clowns bar “range practice” every other month, however, any excuse brings these almost dangerous individuals out with a Heckler and Koch MP5, Tasers and Sidearms, frightening…
Anybody who really considers this “necessary” in this Island clearly has no real grip on reality and perhaps considers our local Police force “heros”, they really are a bunch of utter, pumped up, inane idiots, how I detest also paying my taxes to fund these people.
Be afraid the day comes that it is considered “necessary” to arm them routinely, there will be one or two more incidents I’m sure for the Police Complaints Commision.
Finally, I was under the mistaken impression that we lived in a democracy, where the great unwashed could at least make comment on armed force deployed for no great reason and get a response from the authority concerned?
Not so in 2011 I’m afraid, that last happened in June 1940 I think……
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Time for an answer I think, not some half cocked, glossed over spin, but an honest answer to the people of this Island who are forced not through choice to pay pay taxes to support these utter idiots.
Overeaction is clearly an understatement, however, is it also fair that this can be allowed to happen on a now shockingly regular basis without at least a plausible explanation, or do the Police think that they are indeed above this?
I’d have absolutely no issues with slicing an eighth of my tax bill on the proviso that the Police do not exist on the end of a 999 line, I’ll sort out my own issues thanks and don’t need these total clowns to help me.
On the whole like many others, I’ve nothing but absolute contempt for this Islands Police force now, just an absolute joke, however, they will clearly continue the public intimidation campaign to the very end…
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these two spoons must be totally mortified,seeing this is what we’re trained for bro,total madness
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Scary! On the whole, no real exposure to firearms on a regular basis, probably local “boys” who were sorting out the pis****ds at Follies last Friday night and now, Tuesday next, tooled up with serious firepower because a “woman has got a knife”.
Not so much sad as pretty frightening, I’d not like to meet these jokers in the wrong circumstance as I’d probably be dead, how about they are issued cap guns for a few months until this local force can be trusted with grown up stuff??
Any comment Mr Rice, no, thought not, please leave and very soon.
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got to love gsy police .lol even with a broken rear light hey block you with 2 0r more cars coz they have nothing else to do heehhhee for fk sk its only a broken light
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All that for one woman? Who, frankly, I could probably have disarmed myself? What you clearly did need was someone with negotiating skills…
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Yes it is a joke but it is not funny anymore. When will the police stop this stupid game playing-What is happening to our lovely little island—I will tell you to many non locals coming in changing things for what they think is best.
I think it is about time local guernsey people take back their island and try and turn it back to what it once was. Our island is being damaged by non locals who think they know what is best for us and i am not just talking within the police force but other areas to. If we don’t start putting our foot down now they will damage guernsey beyond repair.
Guernsey is what it is if you do not like it go and live else where.
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I wholeheartedly believe tazers have their place in our violent world and there must be law and order or we so-called human beings will be back to barbarism in no time, but one wonders in this situation how it could have been effectively resolved other than a couple of police ordering her ‘put the knife down now’ over and over until maybe she does something stupid/fatal. What would I have done? It’s actually difficult to know, but that reaction was surely OTT.
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Posting on here is good, but there is no substitute for emailing your deputy (or preferably all of them). Election time nears which tends to make all the ones standing again a mite more attentive than usual.
If we fill their inboxes with our concerns, there actually might be a chance of something concrete happening.
This link should provide all their email addresses
http://www.gov.gg/ccm/general/states-members-and-committees/states-members-email-addresses.en
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Tell you what, why don’t you all write, giving your full names and adresses, to all the deputies, and the chief of police, explaining that you no longer want any response of this kind in Guernsey. Hopefully you will get your way.
Then if ( heaven forfend when ) somebody does get killed because of a lack of response, the resulting enquiry will have a an easy task finding who was to blame … because they will have all the relevant names on file ….
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Tony, if only it was that simple to have deputies/police listen to you.
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Tony
Always nice to have an alternative view
I have taken up rocquaine’s suggestion of e-mailing the deputies
The site she recommends has a ‘contact ALL deputies’ button so it’s quite a simple process to pass on your pour or contre thoughts on the way the Police now deal with domestics
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@coco
I totally agree with every word you say. I despair of the way we are heading.
Unfortunately peolpe like us who disagree with the way things are going will be accused of being neandrethal Guerns or xenophobic!
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What evidence do you have Matti that tasers are being effective in reducing violence?
There is a theory that the more the police arm themselves, the more a certain element of society will arm themselves to compensate.
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That’s the last time I short change a hedge veg stall. Lol
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Quick note…
The wepon the officer is carrying is a less than lethal option baton round.
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Mr. Concerned.
Not condoning the actions of these officers one bit, yes very OTT in my book but I think you’ll find that there are only a small minority of officers that can carry firearms so to class ALL local officers as a ‘bunch of utter, pumped up, inane idiots’ is a bit unfair. I also think that they will be more than a bit embarrassed by the action taken.
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I totally agree that this is all over the top, from my point of…Guernsey police are never there when you need them, yet they are always around when nothings going on, there are never where they should be, when they are needed….if this woman was gonna harm herself, why point a gun at her?!
I think Guernsey police need to re-think there strategy instead of showing off their nice new cars and toys,
bit of a waste of resources I think.
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Thank you Rocquaine for those e mail addresses, I have just sent them all a message which I feel will leave them in no doubt how I feel. I`ll let you know how many replies I get.
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This is an inevitable consequence of having too many police on the Island. It is natural that the police will overeact and try and make mountains out of molehills, it is in their interstes to do so.
What we need is a police force that is proportional to the size of our island and the crimes that take place. We undoubtedly need some senior and well qualified officers but the vast majority will be performing very basic tasks (checking for tax free agricultural fuel?!). Why should they be on such good salaries and benefits? Why does every police officer have to be trained to the highest degree possible? We are not the UK and what we need is very different to a UK county.
Lets take it back to basics, get good honest policing at the appropriate level and target the ‘boring’ and petty crimes which most affect Guernsey tax payers – anti social behaviour, vandalism, domestic abuse etc. Lets not have 150 of highly ambitious police officers trying to get their quotas up each month and target the vast majority of innocent people in this Island.
I would take a wild punt that massive savings could be acheived with no difference to the Guernsey tax payer. Lets stop pretending that just because the Island has a high level of employment and wealth that we need a huge and clearly under worked Police Force.
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Tony,
despite there being armed response units in the UK, nutters still occasionally create mayhem and murder. It is usually too late by the time the police arrive.
You have to balance risk and I think there is more chance of an armed policeman shooting an innocent civilian under the current arrangement.
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I have been retired a number of years, but for many of my years in the force I was a trained firearms officer. I hate to say it but I totally agree with many of the posts above. I don’t think I have ever seen such a total over reaction to any situation and can see this type of reaction being the cause of a tragedy rather than preventing it.
Someone above speaks of adrenalin and he is quite right, adrenalin affects each person in slightly different ways, at times it could just be the difference between pulling a trigger or not and the more we over react to situations of this kind the more likly a tragic mistake will be made.
This area of Police work has been heading in this direction for a number of years and the Guernsey Police have tended to copy whatever the latest UK trends are moving towards. Firearms sections have taken on the para military look and rather than boost public confidence, it makes the public feel uneasy.
I firmly believe that having seen how this incident was handled, we have now gone too far and it is time someone placed a tighter element of control on the direction it is heading.
The £400,000 plus spent on the armoured response vehicles was the first step in a direction I don’t believe we need in Guernsey at this time.
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Retired Police officer for CM
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I think you have put me and Helen forward for CM already Ray – maybe we could jobshare with RPO as I am rather busy with RL.
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Mustn’t count your chickens Helen.It still has to go to the vote
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Apart from the waste of resources and over reaction, is anybody else of the mindset that this was bordering on cruelty and completely lacking in compassion. They get a call saying a distressed woman is holding a knife in her own home and threatening to harm herself. So they go and point 15 guns at her. It didn’t need the police at all (well maybe one just in case). Surely they just needed to send a counsellor/doctor round that is trained to deal with very upset, depressed or suicidal patients.
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Retired police officer for CM
SS – Absolutely spot on, armoured response by several burly men is contrary to the Samaritans strategy surely.
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I would like to see our local police in Los Angeles!
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Infantile.
But VERY dangerous.
It doesn’t matter if he’s got a contract.. pay him off and send him home before someone gets hurt.
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For what it’s worth, I agree with those concerned about recent reports of huge armed response teams being deployed in what seem to be totally inappropriate circumstances. I’m becoming increasingly uneasy about the way our police force is being turned into some kind of paramilitary organisation. We don’t need it, we can’t afford it and I can only see it ending in tears.
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Yes this was totally over the top and is frightening as to what might happen if the adrenalin kicks in – but you can’t blame the police officers. Directions and orders for something like this come from the top person! The island as a whole needs to complain. Fight back people! Don’t sit back and take it! You can change things!
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Make you feelings felt where it counts. There is a facility on the Government site to email all Deputies at the same time. It is at the bottom of the deputies email list on the link to the page below:
http://www.gov.gg/ccm/general/states-members-and-committees/states-members-email-addresses.en
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These absurd and potentially lethal stunts are getting to be a regular feature in Guernsey now. Even the usual crowd of apologists who stick up for the police at every opportunity have given up. Why do the States sit on their hands? It is only a matter of time before one of these rambo wannabes shoots an innocent person. I just pray the inevitable victim is not a member of my family. It is simply a matter of time, a tragedy waiting to happen.
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Send them all paintballing including Mr Rice
Sort this out before an inquiry turns into an inquest
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It’s rare to see such agreement amongst the posters on here so I hope some of this comment makes it into print.
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So far, of all the deputies e mailed, I have recieved 25 replies of which approximately half have said they share our concerns but are only prepared to let other deputies investigate or even ask questions about the situation.
Deputy David Jones is asking for a report on the incident from the Police Chief and will, in turn, report to all other deputies.
I hope that Deputy Jones sees fit to issue a statement to the public.
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Peter
That’s eleven more replies than I had. Only a couple of whom could not comment as they knew nothing more about it than what was reported in the Press which is fair enough
Keep digging Deputy Jones but surely Deputy Mahy or another member of Home should be the one to face the media.
Radio Guernsey,whoever you have booked for the Sunday morning phone in,cancel them and get people from Home in their place
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That’s even more than I had, three reply emails and a phonecall.
Peter, I believe you must be royalty, 25 responses from Guernsey deputies must be a record.
I wonder what the chances of Mr Rice’s response to Deputy Jones being published, probably confidential !!!
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Martino
Your man Quin is on Sunday’s phone in
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Woo hold on a minute before you slate!, yes this is Guernsey but we are not such a hidden backwater any more. Drugs, weapons and all the other little nasties are now part of our life and increasingly more each day. My Family have been on the protected side of the Police in this type of incident and I know that I would rather them cover all angles and be there ready for whatever they need to deal with, while and this is also very important maintaining themselves a higher deal of protection. One comment earlier in this forum mentions One un protected PC going in and disarming/defusing all on their lonesome???? Well hello, that person is only doing a job, they too will have family, why should they lose a family member ( in the worst csae scenario) Just because the Guernsey Folk did not want their Police to be able to protect themselves, while protecting us. Every body deserves to have the utmost safety including the Police!
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GsyGal,
No one is saying that we don’t want highly trained police capable of protecting both themselves and the Public, that is not in question, as far as I am concerned. I think the general line of thought above is, neither do we want armed police running around the streets as a matter of routine rather than the exception. Society has change to a certain extent over the years and the Police force needs to keep up with the times, but that doesn’t mean large open displays of armed force out of proportion with the incident. That is, in my opinion, out of place in 99% of incidents in Guernsey.
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GsyGal, you are right about guns being part of guernsey life. The police bought about 30 of them, loaded, to this trivial little incident. The problem is that one day some innocent person will get killed by the police. You cannot have all these pumped up, adrenoline stuffed macho types tearing around the island without somebody somtime having an off day. All it takes is a split second misjudgement and somebody will die. The police have completely lost all sense of proportion, sounds like you have too.
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I feel that you need correcting in a few places.
1. You say this was a trivial incident, but do YOU know what went on? Do you know what the female in question said?
2. Yes, they are armed police, however this does NOT mean they only have lethal options, they have less lethal options – taser, baton round to name a couple.
3. Is it not better that they went there armed, to find out that they are not needed, rather than to arrive too late, or not at all?
4. In all the time that armed police have turned up to incidents, how many do you think have had to use their weapons? the majority will be introduced to taser or baton round, and will give up before any weapons are put to use.
5. You have said “pumped up, adrenoline stuffed macho types” … rather stereotypical, is it not? Do you not think that females are also allowed to operate in the armed police unit?
6. I am VERY sure that they participate in REGULAR training in relation to situation judgement and decision making, and I would trust that any officer who has slipped in this area would be removed from the team.
It may appear to be over the top, however, they have a duty to protect the public, which includes neighbours and others who are in the area, aswell as themselves and the person they are dealing with.
The police do a difficult job, whilst being understaffed (YES, THATS RIGHT!!!) they may have a number averaging around 170, but you have to consider that there are senior officers, desk and custody sergeants, and PC’s who are station bound due to report writing, then they are split into shifts. So, if you feel you could join a team of about 14, and you could deal with a whole island and its “incidents”, i encourage you to join our local force. However, if you feel unable to carry out such a task, it may be better that you appreciate the island’s force in relative quietness, with silent appreciation!
just my thought….as we are all entitled to our opinion :)
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Beanjar,
I think the majority of you comment is over the top considering that none of us know the full cirmcumstances, but in your comment I believe you are correct in saying that this type of police reaction will eventually end up with a mistake by the response team that could be tragic.
Your last sentence is probably the most important. ‘Sense of proportion’. On the face of it this incident appears to have lacked a ‘proportionate response’ and this trend must not be allowed to become the routine way Police react to every minor incident. It actually shows a lack of understanding of the society it is operating in and their expectations.
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Does anyone know who the Chief of Police, Patrick Rice, is accountable to?
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No body does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are a couple of long winded court cases in the system at the moment trying to clear exactly this up.
So if a tragedy did occur at the moment no one can be held to account…………….
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david
The exodus is by all walks of life,including the police
RIP The Old guernsey
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Bridge,
The Home affairs Committee, The Minister is Deputy Geoff Mahy.
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What a waste of tax man’s money. I want bananas
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Will someone please ask the Home Affairs cttee to confirm or deny that they are considering spending £100k on a rib for the firearms team to roam far and wide. Forget that they already own such a vessel ( via customs) and the ongoing costs of training and maintenence ( they just got rid of the diving section) but how can they justify this? If we put as much effort into community policing ( 4 officers ) as we do firearms (20 officers) we would have crime free island. This is not London!
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Well, I listened to the Sunday radio show in the hope that Deputy Home Minister Francis Quin would shed some light on this. Sadly he just trotted out the usual flannel. The politicos always say they have every confidence in Rice’s judgement and don’t want to interfere with operational matters. The police always come out with enigmatic nonsense about not commenting on specific cases/strategy/tactics or anything else. Are we supposed to just accept that ‘God moves in mysterious ways’?
It seems the Guernsey public has no right to know what these stunts are about, just the obligation to pay for them. We don’t even know who to blame when somebody eventually gets killed. Will it be an ‘accidental death’ even though the frequency of these overkill operations make a tragedy inevitable? How could anybody say a dozen heavily armed men were needed to ‘take down’ (or whatever gung-ho jargon they use) one possibly disturbed person who ‘might’ have access to some kind of weapon? In the case of a lady armed with a bread knife, wouldn’t one properly trained PC armed with a stab vest, baton and pepper spray be more than ‘proportionate’? Two ARV’s and 12 or 15 big blokes armed like the SAS is just plain crazy. With nobody left on patrol to handle all the other armed incidents Mr Rice constantly expects?
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Not sure that Mr Quin bottled out.He merely killed the story stone dead by saying that Mr Rice will be making a full statement to the news media this week
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I think the States have seen what has happened in Egypt, Lybia, Syria, Bahrain, Greece, Italy etc.
People getting twitchy in US, UK, Spain Portugal etc.
They want to be ready if they have to “Put down” a simmilar uprising here.
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Phil,
Have you any grounds for your assumption that Home affairs are going spend £100,000 on a rib? If correct this needs to be brought into the public domain, because that would be going over the top.
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As a Police OFficer on another island, I read the comments above with interest.
Firstly, I’m not a firearms officer, but know many officers who are. Like in Guernsey, we don’t have full time firearms officers. Instead these are normal officers who may be out patroling the streets, or in CID who are then called in when a Firearms incident occurs.
To clarify, a “Firearms incident” doesn’t have to involve an actual firearm. Basically any incident where someone is armed with a weapon capable of causing death and is threatening to use it on themselves or others. This could include knives, hammers etc.
Firearms officers do carry guns which are designed to kill. They also carry batons and a pepper spray type liquid, along with so called “non leathal” firearms such as taser or baton rounds. These are designed to incapasitate the person with the weapon long enough to secure the weapon and the person.
To those people who are suggesting a Police OFficer should just approach someone with a knife, I would ask that they read this link which is about an incident in London a few weeks ago where 4 Officers were stabbed by someone with a knife.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15803860
This is the reason why if we know someone has a knife, no Officer will go near them unless they have suitable protection. In the case of a knife, this would usually be a taser, so that if the person made a sudden lunge at the Officers, the taser should incapacitate them before they are able to stab someone.
Others have commented on the number of Officers involved. Most of the time a firearms response will be a set number of officers. This may include tactical advisors and other support roles etc.
Someone said that Guernsey should stop following the UK rules and procedures and do their own! The UK Police Firearms Policy has been tested at the highest Courts in the UK and Europe. Why would Guernsey ditch that and do their own which could get ripped apart at any inquiry following a firearms shooting?? If you would like to see the rules that the Police work to, take a look at the Policy here:
http://www.westmercia.police.uk/assets/_files/documents/sep_09/wmp__1252486699_Manual_of_Guidance_Police_Use_.pdf
People say that Firearms instances have increased. Maybe that is the case, or maybe it’s just that the deployment of Firearms teams are being done earlier instead. A very senior Officer has to authorise their deployment. Another one has to authorise them to actually use their weapons and will specify which weapons they can actually use!
Believe you me, there is not a single firearms officer who would want to shoot someone with the intention of killing them. If that happened in Guernsey then that Officer and their family would probably have to leave the island – even if any inquiry found the officers actions to be correct.
These officers do a very difficult job, and from what I’ve seen, their actions seem to be in order.
Following every deployment, a full internal investigation will take place to see what lessons could be learnt for future events.
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Yeah, but that’s all just silly facts isn’t it? Don’t spoil the fun of the Outrage Bus getting into top gear.
Some of the posters here, post from a position of blissful ignorance, and it would appear, believe every single word that’s printed in the GEP as fact.
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Andrew,
You are of course basically right and because the book has now been produced to tell each force how to react to a situation where some form of weapon is involved, common sense and initiative has flown out of the window and Chief officers interpret those guidelines how they see fit. But what fits in london or Manchester, doesn’t fit in Guernsey. I stick by my comment above:
‘A Sense of proportion’. On the face of it this incident appears to have lacked a ‘proportionate response’ and this trend must not be allowed to become the routine way Police react to every minor incident. It actually shows a lack of understanding of the society it is operating in and their expectations.
If the Chief Officer is going to issue a statement then it needs to be made public, not just circulated to deputies.
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Andrew
Your long post pretty much sums up why the public think so little of the police. If you consider the recent response by the Guernsey police to be appropriate and proportionate then you’re so far out of touch with the public it’s untrue.
To suggest that it needs a dozen or more armed officers to deal with one woman who MAY have a knife is ridiculous. At virtually every domestic incident people will have access to knives, are you suggesting that the armed response Rambo wannabees are sent out to each and every spat?
Respect for the police is pretty much at an all time low, and it’s only going in one direction. This is entirely understandable whilst they consider themselves to be far superior to the people THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SERVE.
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Andrew, obviously turkeys don’t look forward to Christmas and nobody has suggested removing police firearms altogether. Can you at least see that the more armed police turn up at more incidents the more likely it is that somebody will be killed by accident? At what stage does protecting the police and public from one possible self harming lady become ‘overkill’ to you? Surely there was never a chance that one lady with a knife could get past four of you highly trained heavily armed chaps, so why send 12 or 15? That’s probably more guys than the SAS used in the Libyan Embassy siege, interestingly they feel too many men on an operation become a dangerous hinderance.
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Andrew
I think its time you stepped out of the box.
Remember this bit of work by the police
Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, at Stockwell Tube station, south London, on Friday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4713753.stm
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At the end of the day the situation was resolved without anyone getting hurt (as far as we know). This procedure is obviously working for the Police when dealing with situations like this, and they should continue this approach. Its all very well saying how Armed Police in the UK shot a criminal, but that hasn’t happened in this situation or in the business that happened at Les Genats. They are just doing they’re jobs, and if they didn’t then there would be even more moaning at the Police, as it is not just the criminal or victims life in danger possibly, but also the Officers who are in attendance to such scenarios.
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Fred you are quite wrong. The Brazilian the police shot 8 times on the tube was not a terrorist, nor was the guy they killed for having a chair leg in his car. They are out of control and you should get your facts right if you are trying to excuse their actions.
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“Its all very well saying how Armed Police in the UK shot a criminal..”
Sorry Fred, you are posting from a position of total ignorance. Charles de Menezes was an innocent man. He was shot dead by gung ho police gunslingers for doing nothing but being suspicious in their eyes. The same thing could easily happen over here if the current operational trends are allowed to continue unchecked. Deploying armed police officers should be the EXCEPTION. Very worryingly in the still sleepy Guernsey of 2011, it appears now to be the norm.
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Fred please go back, read and digest the links I posted at the start of this story.
We are not talking about ‘criminals’ being injured or killed and debating about whether the force used was necessary. No, we are talking about completely innocent people and situations that result in fatal consequences.
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Fred
Get back in your shed.
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We had something like this before I’m sorry but if I was a police woman going to a call and I heard that there was someone there with a knife I’m sorry but I would like to be armed or I was not armed then I would want my work mates to be.
So good on them. They need to protected themselves.
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Sarah
No one is saying that they shouldn’t be armed and certainly no one is saying that a lone police woman would entertain approaching a known situation without back up.
What is being argued for the most part is the type of response to different incidents and that response must be proportionate to the incident.
What we don’t want to see is large numbers of armed police on the streets on a regular basis for every domestic incident. This is not London or Manchester and a ‘proportional response’, aimed at the Guernsey environment, must be aim.
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