Costs could keep golf off La Ramee
Thursday 24th November 2011, 11:30AM GMT.
Land on both sides of Rue du Pont Vaillant is earmarked as part of the island’s potential third golf course.
AN ATTEMPT to reverse the designation of farmland at La Ramee as a potential golf course has drawn a mixed response from sportsmen, landowners and neighbours.
But all agreed that the cost of turning the agricultural land into a fourth island course would probably prevent it from ever happening.
Their comments follow an amendment submitted by Deputy Tony Spruce, who is trying to use the review of the States’ Strategic Land Use Plan as an opportunity to remove the permission given for the area.
More than 150 vergees – about 37 acres – of the land in question is owned by the Le Patourel family and dairy farmer Alan Le Patourel said it had been in his family’s possession for 447 years.
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I would hope that the decision would not come down to just one of cost!
This would be a completed indulgence which the island cannot afford, given the space constraints that we all have. If the land is not being properly used at present, I am sure that there are plenty of better uses which would benefit the island.
It is the duty of the Deputies and the planners to ensure that, if the owners want to change the use, that the new use is something suitable for the island – housing, light industry, recreational space that can be used by all – the list goes on, but a golf course must be pretty low on the list of preferred options.
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Absolutely agree
Who is pushing this forward? Is it Deputy Ivan Rihoy again? I believe the proposal got roundly
thrashed last time it reared its ugly head.I think it was even suggested that a special golfing hotel be built alongside the course!
On your bike Deputy Rihoy.Time to consider spending more time with your family like Deputies Sirett,Guille and Parkinson (who actually intends to spend more time with his barber)
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Totally agree.
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I agree with what you say Terry…. we cannot afford the space for another golf course and it is not as if we don’t have facilities for golfers here with 2 courses already existing. However, I wouldn’t want to see La Ramee put up for development either. It is entirely possible that in the future we will need all our agricultural land to increase food production locally. Once land is built on, it is gone for ever.
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Costs? Read between the lines. Costs = investment. Construction jobs, investment and money coming into the Island. Long term with a hotel, it would create hotel and maintenance jobs, attract high earners (who would spend money all over the Island), improve tourism and help the Island diversify away from finance. (Which are surely all good things in this unstable climate?) I’m not sure what other industry is likely to be competitive enough to survive, and actually enhance the landscape. Maybe a nature walk around the area, with viewing points and some public amenities would offer something free to those who don’t want to play golf?
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There are other uses for the land that would give a greater return on investment. Golfing is not a huge contributor to the economy.
Land for development is in short supply but the different wants and needs of the community are many. As Mr Langlois says above their would be higher priorities for this scarce resource.
I personally am skeptical on another hotel being built. The ones we have currently are struggling.
I can’t see why the current 3 golf courses are not sufficient for attracting tourism as it is.
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In Rosemary Henry’s fascinating book “A History of L’Ancresse Commmon”, she records that in 1973, the States Recreation Committee (SRC)suggested the idea of a second golf course on L’ancresse Common. In its proposal, the SRC claimed there were 400 people waiting to play golf.
In response, one objector to the plan commented that there were 40,000 wanting to use the Common.
My view is that a simliar argument could be made in this case.
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why do so may people have it in for the golfers. Its such a heathly sport with can be played into your dotage.
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It’s not a question of having it in for golfers. A golf course takes up a large amount of space and benefits a relatively small percentage of the population. As there are already 3 courses (St Pierre Park / Grande Mare and L’Ancresse) I think it’s reasonable to question the need for another one in a 25 square mile island.
I’d be happy for it to be turned into a park – we’re losing so much of our green areas having another protected open space that everyone could use would be nice. It’s not all about finding the most profitable use of the land either – there’s quality of life to consider too.
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Perhaps it’s because given all the difficulties that Guernsey faces, most people feel that the best use of 47 acres of scarce land isn’t to make 18 lawns with holes.
Further, to play golf is to accept that:-
1. Your spouse will perform more than their fair share of domestic duties. Instinctively you think this is a good thing but you know you will have to pay for it – again and again.
2. Your office colleagues will do your work while you skive. See 1 above for consequences. What I’d like to know is if so much “work” is done on a golf course, why isn’t Admiral Park a golf course instead of an office complex?
3. Wandering about with a bag of bent sticks represents a legitimate use of your limited available time before you go to the holy 19th.
4. Anyone you talk to about golf who isn’t a golfer (i.e. most people) will find you utterly insufferable. No-one cares that you played a nice course in Portugal or Turkey or what a Stableford point means.
5. Via the handicap system, rubbish players can delude themselves into thinking they’re good players if they ignore the fact that the latter have actually taken fewer shots to complete their jointly meaningless activity.
6. It is only a sport in the same way darts is a sport.
7. Everyone (no exceptions) looks ridiculous in golf clothes – especially the shoes.
8. In a whole golfing lifetime, you’ve only ever played three good rounds.
You can stop the fear and self loathing now if you can just work out the difference between what you want to do versus what actually makes you happy (they are not the same).
There’s only one thing worse than golf – skiing. How many people actually want to start shouting until their throat bleeds when people say to them “Do you ski?”
Oops, time to go. I’ve said too much haven’t I? My doctor’s got no nose. No, that’s not right. My doctor thinks I’m Moses. He keeps on telling me to take the tablets. I don’t play golf or ski. I’m only allowed to wear a jacket with no sleeves.
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Calm down hobbes.At this rate the only jacket you’ll be allowed to wear is one with sleeves which tie up around the back
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. . . . and there, in the midst of a rant, a tiny white flake of inspiration.
Forget the fourth Golf Course. Not an Ice Rink at Chouet but a Snowdome at La Ramee!
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so is tiddly winks
would you think it a good idea to turn 150 verges of land into a tiddly winks centre so that a few hundred tiddly winkers can have their fun?
I’ve nothing against golfers (really, I haven’t) but we are short of space on this island, and this would be a travesty.
although I sort of also agree with Karen, below
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Fantastic idea – build a proper, purpose built golf course at the Ramee from scratch and then return L’Ancresse Common to what it should be. A natural and wild landscape for the people of Guernsey and not just the elite hob-nobbers on the manicured greens
that look at you like some kind of inferior being when you dare to stray too close.
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Here’s a vision…
The Ramee would make a wonderful site for a Center Parcs-type resort, with a superb country woodlands park for everyone to enjoy all the year round. Nature trails, cycling tracks, a big indoor domed water park, sports pitches, an indoor sports centre to replace Beau Sejour from where many sports are being elbowed out.
It would be possible to also include an outstanding world-class 9-hole golf course (using the whole site for an 18 hole course just can’t be justified) and significantly add to the housing stock with an area designated for housing.
The whole island then benefits from the site, the hotel would attract tourists all year round (we are desparately short of a large hotel) and it would provide widespread community use. Its also worth remembering that the island will need several additional residential retirement homes over the next 20-30 years with a large ageing population. The site could provide for that as well.
I’m a golfer myself but in the bigger scheme of things the use of the site solely for an 18-hole course just cannot be justified ahead of the other possibilities. But a top 9-hole course (not just a par 3 course) would fit in perfectly as part of an integrated scheme.
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Nice dream GM but I wonder if the Ramee site is large enough for all that.Centre Parcs UK is about 400 acres
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Ray
It doesn’t need to be anywhere near as big as that to be a fantastic resort. Several are bigger of course because the extra land is there.
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GM,
Fair idea, but its so bloody expensive to get to this rock that most mainlanders would rather have a week in guaranteed sun for a price thats little more than a couple of return flights to Guernsey.
The cost of getting here and the high prices for everything once you arrive has pretty much killed the tourism industry.
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This site is just fine as it is: a farm.
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Sorry GM. I am afraid that I find your ‘vision’ not a pleasant idea at all. The idea of progressively turning Guernsey into some sort of artificial theme park really horrifies me.
I prefer what Michael R above says….. just leave it as a farm.
Or alternativeIy, what about turning the site into a giant allotment scheme with some of the area put into some sort of community orchards. I know that allotments can look a bit scruffy, but at least the area would still be producing food for the local community, which as prices in the shops continue to rise, will become increasingly needed. You could get the schools at that end of the island involved too, to bring the knowledge of growing food etc back into education.
Then you tie that into teaching about healthy diets etc and cooking the food that they’ve grown. ANd what about having a few pigs on the site and some chickens too…… infact the more I think about it, the more I am warming to this idea!
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The idea of turning La Ramee into a golf course, was is and continues to be mildy bonkers. Perfectly good arable land being turned into green tarmac was never particularly justified. The right thing to do would be to delete that silly idea off the RADP (whatever it’s called) and it leave as is – decent fields to be used by the agricultural industry and the wildlife.
Like all things, just because people want it, doesn’t mean they should have it. That’s not a particular dig at golfers; it’s simply that the sort demands far, far too much of our land for the benefit back to the community or the users.
One football playing pitch probably serves more useful purpose (per square usable foot) than a land hugry golf course.
I’m a Vale resident and quite relaxed with the arrangement down on L’Ancresse, no big issue with the golfers but just a bit concerned about the suggested re-orienting of it and what that means to what is our largest archeological interest site.
PS; Rosie, absolutely not regarding allotment schemes. No allotments on agricultural land whatsoever; there’s enough of this island’s fields being mown into oblivion by private estate land owners and their desire to extend their ‘estates’. I’m surprised with your sustainability head on you aren’t naming an shaming those large land owners that turn their estates into glorified gardens and Jemima horse paddocks? You must know a few surely?
Horticultrual site, yeah sure why not, but green fields with suburban allotment holders….no thanx.
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Neil. The main point I was trying to make is that I think the area ought to be for growing food in some form. There is a huge difference between fields turned into mown lawns/ deserts/ horse paddocks and productive allotments for growing food for local people who don’t have the space at home….. no comparison really.
Appearance wise, I agree, I would much rather see it remain as a farm. Maybe my allotment / community orchard / school growing idea could go on a disused vinery site? I do think that as food gets more expensive, the ability for more people to grow some of their own food will become increasingly desirable.
Can’t say that I do know many people- if any- that have acres of farmland put over to horses and lawns. If you are referring to the fields we own, they are all given free of charge to one of our local farmers to use as he sees fit.
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A fourth golf course would surely result in a disproportionate amount of land being allocated to one particular interest group.
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Rosie
Realistically less than 5% of what is a huge land mass would need to built on. That hopefully puts my vision into perspective.
On an island this size, a land area of that magnitude needs to be utilised. We hear that there is no suitable land for light industry, everywhere else is “the wrong zoning”, we are told that we cannot put something here or there for various planning reasons. This would be like the island winning the lottery in terms of suddenly having a massive area of land to utilise for the benefit of the island. Do you fully appreciate how big this site is?
There is ample room for allotments in amongst a multitude of uses for the overall site. There are also dozens of derelict finery sites which would be far better suited to allotments instead of being left to be rat infested with noxious weeds growing through their roofs.
Kevin
Have you been to a Center Parc in the UK? They sure aren’t cheap and people do NOT go there because of the weather!
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Rosie, I have no idea where your live.
You suggested that a 37 acre greenfield site could be allotmentised. There is a distintion in Guernsey between agricultural and horticultural land; roughly green field are agri, ex vineries are horti. I disagree that that site should be turned into an urbanised allotment site and would much prefer it remain as it is; compartmentalised or as one farming unit. But farming nevertheless. Strategically retained for that industry; the golf course was always a dumb idea.
I broadly agree with you regarding people growing for themselves and I believe there’s a bit of a move to find better ways of using ex greenhouse sites to exactly what you are suggesting; some will fall to small industrial estates and storage, some will, I hope, be allowed to be utilised for private growing.
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I am A Golfer,and yes,I play upto five times a week,but as I am now into my seventies, I think I deserve to spend my time as I please. The Idea of building another golf course at La Ramee I believe was put forward at at a time when the waiting list for new members at L’ancresse was a mile long, but, since then, St Pierre Park, and laterly on a reclaimed marsh at Vazon, La Grande Mare Golf course was developed.Facilities for Golfers in my opinion now seems to be more than adequate.
As for one hundred and fifty acres of prime agricultural land. How can the Environment Department, possibly justify any development on this considerable parcel of prime land when there are so many small parcels dotted around the Island, which are ideally suited for one or two dwellings, yet,strangely have been repeatedly refused planning permission ?
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