Posters aim to discourage drivers mounting pavements
Saturday 26th November 2011, 2:29PM GMT.
Judging for the Living Streets poster competition for Year 7 and 8 students is under way. From left to right are Renton Hayward, PC Russell Johnson, Joel Lewis, Deputy Tom Le Pelley and Catherine Batiste. Four winners will each receive a cash prize. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1202230)
HIGH school students have designed posters to highlight the dangers of driving on the pavement to mark National Road Safety Week.
It was organised by Living Streets and the 80 entries from Year 7 and 8 students were judged by chairman Tom Le Pelley, Police Constable Russell Johnson and three Guernsey College of Further Education art and design students – Renton Hayward, 17, Joel Lewis, 18, and Catherine Batiste, 18.
Deputy Le Pelley said Living Streets had highlighted a number of problem areas where they had seen motorists mounting the pavements at speed or driving too quickly along them.
He said it was particularly dangerous to drive on pavements in urban areas, where there was a lot of pedestrians and where front doors opened directly onto the street.
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I’d like to see these posters on the buses. Not only on the backs, but in the cabs where the drivers can see them.
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All kudos for organising this but to be honest >
Yeah right….a poster campaign? People don’t read stuff like that,let alone actually take notice and act on it.
The only point anyone notices is the point that they can be recorded on a mobile phone, dragged out of their cars on the spot, frogmarched down to the Police Station for breaking the law and prosecuted for dangerous driving and recklessly endangering human life.
U.K law classification>
Dangerous Driving
Title: Road traffic offences
Offence: Dangerous driving
Legislation: Road Traffic Act 1988 s.2
Commencement Date:
Mode of Trial: Triable either way
Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty:
On indictment – 2 years imprisonment or a fine or both
Summary conviction – imprisonment not exceeding 6 months, or a fine, or both
Disqualification minimum 12 months
Obligatory endorsement
Mandatory disqualification until passes extended driving test.
(I appreciate that we live in Guernsey but Guernsey law still follows UK precedents in cases such as these).
The poster campaign is part of the step along the way to stopping anyone doing this, however time would be better spent lobbying the right people to impose a mandatory custodial sentence, a massive fine, an instant 12 month minimum ban and 11 points on your licence (I also understand that Guernsey doesn’t have a Points system, however this should also be considered when lobbied for) when the ban is lifted. They should also have to face a Theory and Driving re-test when they want their licence back.
Under the current UK law anyone hitting 12 points on their licence will receive an automatic 6 month ban-a suit we should follow here.
All it takes is for people to record anyone they see driving on the pavement and submit it to the Police Station. It is still admissable evidence in the eyes of the law as to an offence being committed and can still lead to a prosecution.
DRIVING ON THE PAVEMENT IS ILLEGAL PLAIN AND SIMPLE
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Oh for goodness sake! I just lost 3 minutes of my life reading your rubbish rant! I hope you’re seriously not advocating to drag people out of their cars as this would constitute assault one way or another.
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Bernie – Do you believe all that you read or are you unable to take certain things with a pinch of salt? My example above was highlighting my vehemance and strength of passion in this matter. I take your complete denial at being able to understand strength of feeling and gleaning facts from posts, as the fact that you regularly drive on the pavement?
Come talk to me next time you bemoan people who flagrantly break the law because one of your relatives or offspring have been moan down and killed whilst WALKING on a surface meant for pedestrians (THE PAVEMENT).
The pavemements are small enough as it is on this Island without idiots in cars driving on them.
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Blow-in-boy
I agree with your comment about an ineffective poster campaign,what we need is something that will stick in people’s minds for a long time
Since every day seems to be a celebration of something or other .. such as bullying awareness day / national flossing day /go to work on an egg day etc why don’t we organise one special day each year when no-one, ABSOLUTELY NO-ONE, is allowed to mount the pavement on pain of imprisonment
Probably best to hold it on 29th February whenever that date falls on a Sunday otherwise the whole island would grind to a standstill
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Ray –
Are you sure we shouldn’t hold it on the 39th of Frumesday? :-)
Poster campaigns are about as effective as wet suits made from rice paper.
Surely EVERY day according to the Highway Code and the law is a day when people aren’t allowed to drive on the pavement on pain of imprisonment.
We need people to record those driving on the pavement on mobile phones, and then take the video evidence to the Police. Video evidence can be submitted AFTER the fact that a crime has been committed and leads to prosecution. Video evidence is admissible evidence in ANY court of law.
(I know this to be true as my Fiance is a Barrister).
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Blow-in Boy
If I remember correctly our most recent ‘new’ roads are at Footes Lane (quite a decent job made of that) and Elizabeth Avenue at Admiral Park where for some reason Environment rubber stamped ten feet wide pavements but only one and a half traffic lanes heading East
If only the Romans had had a bit of foresight when they built the remainder of our road system they would all be wide enough to take a couple of average sized cars without the NEED to mount the pavement (that is of course on those roads that DO have a pavement)
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Blow in boy,
I take it you don’t drive then?
If you do can you honestly say hand on heart that you NEVER have or NEVER will drive on the pavement?
What a complete load of tosh.
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Kevin – As a matter of fact I DO drive, I ride a motorbike over here and drove a car back in the UK.
(Places hand on heart) erm…..Yes. considering that it is just plain Illegal and states under Rule 145 of the Highway Code –
You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
It is also plain dangerous for pedestrians and especially the elderly who could be or are visually impaired. Then there are those that are registered Blind and may not stop as they can’t see you.
I HAVE mounted the pavement in a car (I NEVER have on a motorbike as it is not necessary to do so) but only in a complete emergency and also STOPPED to let the oncoming traffic pass. THIS is the ONLY point at which you are allowed to mount the pavement whilst moving. You must then pull off the pavement and carry on with your journey.
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Blow in Boy,
As you are so keen on applying the Highway code to the letter of the law I suggest you study the secton on speed limits.
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So what are we supposed to do if we need to overtake a line of parked cars and the only way of doing it is on the pavement. Are we supposed to just sit there and wait for all the parked cars to be moved?
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???? erm E.P????
We drive on the left over here, if you were to overtake a line of parked cars because oncoming traffic dictated that you couldn’t go any further then you would surely be mounting the left hand pavement and driving FULLY on the pavement. If you cannot decipher your left from your right then you should surrender your licence immediately to the Police. You are,quite plain and simply, a danger to those around you.
If you’re talking about a narrow road (either one way or 2 way) and parked vehicles are impeding your movement, then you should contact the States of Guernsey’s traffic department as parked vehicles are causing an obstruction, and therefore a danger to road and footpath users. Parking should be banned on that stretch of road if this is the case.
Other than that some simple plain courtesy to other road users goes a long way.
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Sometimes one has to mount the pavement for the oncoming vehicle to pass (not just buses either). Trouble is, oncoming drivers often do not have the courtesy to allow one to stop and mount the pavement safely. Look at the number of low profile wheels with damage!
Bus and taxi drivers are good and allow a safe transition. A lot of private drivers and some commercial ones don’t! Count the number with smashed wing mirrors etc
Victims or abusers of common sense?
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Never mind bloney posters, if the police put their guns away long enough they could catch a few of these mad blighters in skip lorries, busses, vans etc. who hurtle towards oncoming cars at 40 mph. Then people wouldn’t have to take evasive action by driving up the kerb at speed. I’ve damaged my car in the past by doing just that.
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the people who complain need to drive something bigger than a car like a large van or lorry and see if they dont mount the curb esp when your going around a blind corner and meet a bus both of you traveling at 35 miles an hour you have no choice but to throw the vehicle on the pavement or have a head on crash , now that would be more dangerous surely , also this island isnt designed for large vechicles maybe we should all start riding bikes and not be so lazy driving our cars around the place or get on buses to work , i dont know how it will ever work if you meet a bus they dont even bother slowing down let alone stop .
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I think people are rightly worried about what could happen in certain situations. What would happen if you were to “throw your car on the pavement” at 35 mph on a blind corner, and a group of people were on the pavement? I think its drivers on blind corners “throwing their cars on the pavement” at 35 mph that are a direct risk to pedestrians lives.
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If craig makes a habit of driving around blind corners at 35 mph he needs to lose his driving licence immediately.
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I understand that one should not drive on the pavement – but tell me how I can get down Sausmarez Street for example? You have to get on the pavement in order not to hit the parked cars.
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The Guernsey reality is that pavements are few and far between.
Pedestrians spend the majority of their time on roads out of necessity. Cars spend a tiny amount of time on pavements again, out of necessity. So unless we are willing to tear down fences and houses to widen roads like they are in the UK then pavement “surfing” should be allowed with the obvious privoso that drivers do so only very slowly and taking extreme care at all times.
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Rachel
Actually I believe that’s exactly what the law says
The problem is the speeds involved on most occasions
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Rachel. There is another alternative. People could just buy cars that are of an appropriate size for our roads. I don’t mind going onto the pavement to get out of the way of a bus, lorry or workman’s van but I REALLY resent going onto the pavement to get out of the way of someone sitting in their oversized tank.
The law says that we can mount the pavement and stop while the other vehicle goes past us. If needs be, we can continue forwards, but only at a walking pace. I think that that’s perfectly reasonable.
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Agree Rosie,
I don’t see why I should shorten the life of my tires by having to mount the kerb to facilitate someone who has of their own free will chosen to purchase a vehicle inappropriate to island roads.
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Are the posters going to include instructions for the driver who has no room to get past an oncoming car/bus/lorry if he/she is not allowed on the pavement…?
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Wouldn’t it be more effective to get rid of the ridiculous buses and replace them with suitable ones and ban all the gigantic four wheel drives that overpaid poseurs seem to feel are imperative for getting around our tiny island?
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yes, taking 30 buses and a handfull of 4x4s off the road would stop anybody from ever having to mount a pavement ever again ……
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If only it were just a ‘handful’ of unsuitably large cars – I refrain from the use of the term ’4x4s’ as it is not the drive train that matters but the width of the vehicle, although often the two do go hand in hand.
It is almost every other car these days. I have no problem with the buses, they are doing a social good which is more than can be said for the monster-sized private cars.
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I’m glad they are bringing this up again. It right royally pees me off. The arrogance of Guernsey people that think they have some god given right to ramp up the pavement wherever, and whenever they like without any attempt to bother slowing down.
I agree with other comments about people coming the other way could be a bit more forgiving, rather then just driving at you.
There has been enough guidance on the correct procedure should you have no choice but to mount the pavement, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other.
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The problem is the Buses which are far too big for Guernsey Roads. Even if you are going slowly, often there is very little time to stop and e.g. if you come round the corner of Fosse Andre and happen to meet a bus which will not fit down the road unless you go on the pavement because of the granite wall, what are you meant to do? stop in the middle of the road because you are not allowed to mount the pavement and just watch the traffic build up around you?
I agree drivers do go too fast round blind corners but the bus drivers are just as much to blame for mounting the pavement as car drivers – I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen this – including Police themselves!!!
The road along Capelles is one of the worst.
If the Buses were narrower you could fit them on the roads and everyone else wouldn’t need to mount the pavement!!!!
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there is always the option of doing what is already permitted – stopping, mounting the pavement, staying put while the bus goes past or moving forward slowly yourself, then pulling back onto the road.
if only the buses and big cars coming the other way would slow down to let you mount the kerb safely…
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Folk have been driving on and off pavements in Guernsey since the car was invented, problem is now too many cars and frustrated motorists attempting to reach their destination within a reasonable time frame delayed through roadworks and temp traffic lights that spring up overnight.
If you have to mount the pavement, then just drive slowly, if you stop you’ ll never get anywhere, c’mon people a little common sense please
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Common sense it may be, Nige. But illegal.
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But remember this ” Common sense is not all that common.Eh ?”
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Can Environment or the Police publish the number of pedestrians who have been knocked down while walking on the pavement? The numbers would probably be about two in the last five years.
Road safety is now heading towards a completely mixed environment for pedestrians and car users, with some large Towns in Europe taking away pavements altogether.
Reminds me of the recent pointless ‘Living Streets’ campaign to have the ad-hoc pedestrian crossing by the Albion controlled by traffic lights. How many accidents have there been here as well? I’d be interested to find out.
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John Gollop’s euchre – playing donkey once drove a 4X4.
Have I got your attention?
The late Alan Coren claimed that, in his experience, the most popular topics of conversation amongst the English were Hitler, golf and cats. Hence the title of his bestseller “Golfing for cats” the cover of which contained a prominently positioned swastika.
Like many people, I object to people driving large 4X4′s without due care and attention. But for me and perhaps others, it goes further. I object to people buying such vehicles in the first place. But why? Surely in a free society, it is right that individuals should spend their money in whatever lawful manner they think fit?
Further, in entering into such a transaction it would appear that the purchaser’s happiness is increased as is that of the garage owner (as seller and petrol vendor) and also the local exchequer. So far so good, but…….
1. Your freedom in buying large vehicle infringes my freedom to enjoy (in many cases) my side of the road or, on occasion, my fair share of a car-park space in the supermarket. In some cases, I might have to illegally mount the pavement so as to avoid an accident. This means the Libertarian argument for the transaction is compromised.
2. Also, related to the above, your enjoyment in driving such a beast is matched by my unhappiness caused by your choice. Indeed, your own happiness is reduced by the fact that many roads are too small for you to use and you can only spend so much money on new wing mirrors/wheel arch repairs before you begin to regret your choice. Consequently, the Utilitarian argument (i.e. Its OK to do things provided it increases the net sum of human happiness) for purchase is diminished.
3. Finally, when you bought that monster, were you really exercising free will/choice or, conversely, were you simply a slave to your passions? Maybe you were satisfying a desire to have a better car than your peers or enjoy greater but (on a 25 square mile island) entirely superfluous luxury. Maybe your purchase was occasioned by an unreasonable fear of death by Tundra. In these cases you didn’t make a free and autonomous choice at all. You merely demonstrated (quite expensively) that you’re not really in charge of your life.
So, while I would defend absolutely your right to buy a large vehicle, mostly I wish you wouldn’t.
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Fantastic post! Love it!
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Thanks rocquaine
I fell asleep at about point 1 but your little post has encouraged me to try to tackle the rest
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Rocquaine
Many thanks your generous post.
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Couldn’t agree more Hobbes……. Great post.
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Quite a good post, but even something like a Ford Mondeo is now probably just as wide as most ’4x4s’
I have a large car, usually just me in it but it also usually has a boot full of stuff that I couldn’t physically fit into a smaller car so I probably look like an idiot for buying such a large car. Still, I use it probably once a week and spend the rest of the time on a motorbike (worse or better than a 4×4, I’m not sure?!)
One of the reasons I like riding a motorbike, no need to mount pavements!
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Why does nearly everybody thInk that making 30 or so of the 80,000 vehicles on the island a bit smaller is going make the problem go away ?
Come April, when there are no buses on the roads, do you really think nobody is going to have to mount the pavement any more ? Are buses really the only vehicles you have to get out if the way for ? Are they even responsible for half of the occasions you have mount the pavement ?
Whilst we’re at it can someone tell me where I can buy one of those magic cars that stops being and obstruction when parked just because two of the wheels are on the pavement ?
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probably the same place as those cars that can be “parked” in the road just before a blind bend, all because the driver needs to visit that particular house.
park safely and walk to the house? why would you want to do that??
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I totally agree Tony. You have to get out of the way of these over-sized private vehicles far, far more often than a bus. And while a bus is there to provide a public service, these private tanks are there because someone rekoned that their desire for a large status symbol was more important than considering everyone else they have to share the roads with.
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I thought you just had to put your hazard lights on?! ;-)
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One of the best places to see pavement driving is from the old states offices to the bus stops by the Thomas de la Rue. everone seems to think that the 2 lanes at the weighbridge start out side the ship and crown pub!and so anyone going up the grange has the right to find the imaginary inside lane as soon as they are past the crown pier traffic lights.Buses and taxis are the worst offenders, and if the police want to catch a few motorists, just wait at the bus stop, but mind your toes, they may get run over !!
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I’ve been out of the island for a few years now so maybe things have changed, but the worst place I remember used to be along the Vrangue, at the bottom of Guelles Rd.
Many drivers coming from the Couture direction mount the pavement there as a matter of habit even when there’s no oncoming traffic. Presumably a pre-emptive measure just so’s they don’t have to slow down (heaven forbid!) if there was something coming up the hill the other way.
Not sure what they expect to do when they meet a mother with a baby buggy on the pavement the other side of that blind hill…
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# 14 ‘But remember this ” Common sense is not all that common.Eh ?”’
So uncommon that it didn’t win the tories an election when it was the only slogan they could think of!
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@Tony
I think we all know that there are more than a handful of 4x4s on Guernsey’s roads and anyone who doesn’t understand that they are totally unsuitable for the island is stupid.
And by the way, handful only has one ‘l’…
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I prefer MY spelling … but I defer to your greater knowledge in such matters …
Not all 4x4s are the problem …. its the handful driven by people who can’t, or won’t drive them properly – or are too scared of scratching their pride and joy to dare driving closer than 6 feet away from a wall or hedge ….. as a very general and unfair rule I assume the driving ability of the person coming at me is inversely proportional to the width and/or cost of their car …..
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I tend to look for wing mirrors folded in (or smashed). Usually a fair sign of driving ability.
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I haven’t seen wing mirrors since the days of chromed Desmos on stalks.
Do you mean door mirrors, Mark?
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Bridge
You are another of those people who assume that all 4 x 4s are large
Check it out – they are not
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Yes and the 4x4s are all used by Mrs “Housewife” who married Mr “Finance Director” so that they can take their only 5 year old child to Acorn House. They also have spray on mud for the car so that they can show off to their friends when they attend Lord and Lady Coatbridge’s annual summer evening cocktail ball.
Apparently the 4x4s are the only vehicle big enough to store their ego in the boot.
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I actually worry about the thought of hitting some unsuspecting pedestrian trying to perambulate their way to the local shop before it closes down.
There are some roads which I constantly struggle to stay off the kerb, if you get up to close you get bounced back into the opposing vehicle which is often travelling down the centre rather than over on their side.
I think we need more one way roads with clear footpaths, no parking on busy roads during rush hours, a restriction on delivery drivers during the morning rush hour, and a driving test for cyclists who think it appropriate to go through red lights, up one way streets the wrong way, talk on their mobiles while riding, ride no handed and travel at speed in the dark dressed in a ninja outfit and without any lights,
Back to the car, Its darn scary out there at times and we need to slow down, take more care and make an effort to safely pass other vehicles no matter who is near the “easy option pavement”
.
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Why Don’t the states introduce a system
(though it would never happen cos it would be against Human Rights)
Where there is a size limit on cars unless you can properly justify the need for e.g. a Van to get around because of work, for example a tradesman who needs to carry lots of tools.
Large, oversized and powerful vehicles should be banned from Guernsey roads, along with the oversized buses!!
Like I say though – its “AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS”.
(can you hear my sarcasm?)
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You are right, it would infringe personal freedom to stop people having the car they want. However, the way round this is to charge cars on how much space they take up (and indeed how much pollution they produce).
Therefore, when I am CM, I will be proposing reintroduction of road tax calculated on physical size of vehicle, in particular the width, and its emissions rating. So if you drive a narrow vehicle with less than 100g emissions you will not pay anything and if you freely choose to drive a stonking wide 4 litre tank you will pay £2000 a year. Exceptions for business vans, taxis and buses.
Simple. No human rights violated and all the money collected can pay for a free bus service. Sorted!
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rocquaine,
Stupid idea that penalises people with children who need a bigger car for baby seats, prams/buggies and all the other bits that come with family life.
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I think you’ll find that Rocquaine’s idea isn’t that far from how VED is applied in the UK. Though this is under the polluter pays principle (based on emissions) rather than vehicle size.
Now, didn’t we use to have a system whereby vehicle owners had to pay an annual charge based upon the vehicles weight (or in otherwords, size)…
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So how did people with children manage before the advent of urban tanks? A friend has 3 children under 8 and still copes perfectly well with a normal car.
Yes Mark – all we needed was to tweak the old Motor Tax.
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It depends on what age your children are rocquaine. If you need three large car seats or just a booster. I have a hatch back with one car seat, one smaller booster and my eldest child sits “illegally” in a normal seat belt between them.
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Is it just me or are there far more accidents on the Guernsey roads at the moment all you hear on the radio is a certain road, is closed because someone is being cut out of their car. Too many cars on the road in a hurry.
I agree Les Capelles road at school time is a nightmare and the other road is Candie road St. Andrews I dont know how many wing mirrors I have lost.
Saw a classic last week in that road a white van, pavement surfing at speed, on the phone, with a fag in his hand, I feared for my life, where is a policeman when you need one.
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What people seem to have missed is that I NEED my 4×4 to mount the kerb safely, especially at speed. The low profile tyres and alloys on my BMW could get scratched if I tried to mount the pavement using that.
There is an easy answer to all this. Just make every road on the island one-way in a circular pattern initiating from Vazon kiosk next to my house, it’s so simple I don’t know why it’s not been thought of before.
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Hope this applies to cyclists as well.
Patiently waiting at traffic lights, sometimes when pedestrians are crossing, to have cyclists over and under take you and either act as ‘pedestrians’ or pull in, in front of the first car in the queue. Highway Code, cycling proficiency, clearly they have heard of neither.
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You should read Cyclecraft, published by The Stationary Office, which supplements the Highway Code with some excellent advice for safe a responsible cycling.
It confirms that it is perfectly legal and advisable for cyclists to move towards the front of stationary queues of traffic (overtaking is better than undertaking), as long as they are not impeding other road users when doing so. Whilst it is arguably the safest thing for the cyclist to position themselves at the front of the queue in full view of the front driver, this is in fact not permitted if they have to cross the stop line in order to do so (since we do not have advanced stop lines here in Guernsey). Instead, Cyclecraft recommends that cyclists position themselves behind the front car and in full view of the second driver. In this way the front car sets off when they want to, and the second car, who has to wait for the first car to move anyway, simply sets off after the cyclist has moved. This is the approach that I take and it works very well.
Many motorists see cyclists doing this and mistakenly think that the cyclist is not following the rules of the road, when in fact they are.
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Very true and likewise for motorcyclists. People need to get it into their thick heads its not illegal to filter through traffic. Its one of the benefits of having a push bike/motorbike.
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Whos fault is it that the roads are to narrow, not the motorist, so pull your horns in.
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Love it Sterling. Brilliant!
Rocqaine – I agree tax on larger and more powerful vehicles especially the few ferarri’s you see – WHY ON EARTH DO THEY NEED ONE HERE?
More care is needed especially when the sun is bright and you can’t see a bloomin thing going along a road where one side you are on is a wall and the shadow means you can’t see where the wall actually is!!
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If you ask me there are no problems with any of the vehicles on Guernseys roads. People should be allowed to drive what they want. What IS the problem is peoples attitudes when they get behind the wheel. All it takes is a bit of patience and some common sense (both of which in the main are severely lacking) and ALL road users would get along a lot better.
If you choose to drive a big 4×4 you should be prepared to move over more often to allow others to pass in the opposite direction and not just barge your way through. You chose the vehicle, drive it in a manner suitable to the road conditions.
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Local Resident
Because in Guernsey you are judged by the car that you drive and the number plate you have.
How sad is that.
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Judged by whom? Only like-minded ‘shallow’ idiots with something to prove. I think you’ll find that many successful and influential people in Guernsey who are confident in their own skin choose the opposite stance and are to be seen driving very small cars.
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You only have to look at what these plates sell for,the most recent one (035 if I remember rightly) went for £17500, that is LUDICROUS, roughly a years wages for many of us!!
Some people obviously don’t have IQs to match their bank balances, is it any wonder that the normal working man gets hacked off at being taxed to the hilt to supposedly safeguard these peoples livelihoods when the rich can literally throw money away on nothing other than a piece of perspex with a low number on it?
Still I suppose its a ‘must have’ to go on the £70K car!
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I agree Valeite. We seem to be overrun with snobs obsessing over their 4 digit number plates.
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Four digits? Pah! I’ve got three…
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I don’t suppose that the 90 year old gentleman who had an accident along the town front would have bothered too much about a poster referring to ‘keep off the pavements’!
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It’s ok saying stop using the pavements to drive on but when you come up close to a bus you have no choice but to use the pavements. Sometimes buses do not always slow down for you. Do you really thing we like getting on pavements and scratching our wheels?
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No-one is complaining about your getting on the pavement to get out of the way of a bus. Just slow down to walking speed when you do or even better, stop until the bus has passed.
Why is it that everyone constantly talks about getting on the pavement to avoid a bus when it is done to avoid over-wide private vehicles far more often?
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Honestly, i mount the pavements for fun.
it’s a great way to get past other cars with out haveing to loose any speed. they’re more like road extensions for those of us that want to use it.
i am all for mounting the pavements.
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