Chamber warns public sector workers over pension strikes
Wednesday 30th November 2011, 12:45PM GMT.
PUBLIC sector workers locally should learn from UK strikes and avoid industrial action when Guernsey negotiates potential pension reforms, Chamber of Commerce has said.
Much of the UK is expected to be brought to a standstill today because up to two million workers plan to strike following a move from the government to scrap final salary pension schemes.
It comes at a time when the States has confirmed its plan for a working group to review Guernsey’s public sector pensions in order to ensure the scheme is affordable for the island.
Chamber of Commerce chairman Julian Winser (pictured) said a move away from final salary schemes on the island was inevitable. But he hoped local public sector workers would not follow their UK counterparts in taking industrial action.
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Nicely said Mr Winser. why should these peasants expect to have what they have paid in for whilst working for the Island. Lets all be in this together and shaft the cannon fodder, there’s only one way and I take it it’s your way.
Hail the new messiah Mr Cameron.
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Surely Mick, if we are going to use the notion “get paid what has been paid in”; then the UK motion to base a pension on the “career average salary” seems completely the right way to go! It is blatantly obvious a pension based on a final salary isn’t sustainable – you would be getting more than you paid in!
I personally feel that public pensions, in this day and age under past and current proposals will become bankrupt without vast unpopular changes to the system. I suggest we scrap them. them people can allocate the money paid as they see fit! If you choose not to save responsibly then you have no one to blame apart from yourself!
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I agree with your underlying notion here Mick and i find this sort of lecturing difficult to stomach from someone who is probably very well paid, has gold plated health cover and receives lots of nice bonuses. How about taxing the bankers a bit more Mr Winser rather than attacking pensions for the likes of nurses who quite frankly earn a pittence for the hard work that they do?
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Mick…that’s the point you see it just from your own circumstances and blow the private sector workers who have to make up the difference while not being able to afford to contribute to their own pensions.
Obviously what you put in is yours to keep but don’t expect the rest of us to be happy continuing to make up the balance.
He is right, this is an open sore and deputies should take note.
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People in Finance houses shouldn’t throw moans
In these difficult times, Tax payers are rightly concerned that States employees’ pensions are underserved when compared with those available to their private sector counterparts.
However, a final salary pension is what they are entitled to per their signed contracts. Further,most states employees perform their duties in an exemplary manner.
Meanwhile,In the private sector (let’s choose banking) according to Mightberightopedia:-
Sir Fred Goodwin’s reward for failure i.e. masterminding Royal Bank of Scotland to a £24 billion pound loss – an increase in his personal pension pot from £8 million to £16 million (worth £700k per year). This was later reduced to a lump sum payment of a paltry £2.7m and £342,500 per year forever.
These discussions may go on for some time.
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Public employees, that’s a joke in itself. Overpaid, under worked parasites living in a financial cocoon the hard working private sector have to subsidise. They have total job security, something the rest of us can only dream of and retire with a gold plated pension at the end of their short, cushy working lives, the rest of us have to pay for. I now have to work longer, just so these workshy civil servants can maintain their easy going existence.
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I cannot believe the bigoted nature of this reply, the mentality of this individual is all that’s wrong in the world today. To blanket all public employees as parasitic under worked overpaid workers in nothing more then insulting. When the individual is tucked up in bed dreaming of utopia in cuckoo land spare a thought for the abused Nurse, Policeman, fireman etc trying to do there job, the civil servants and manual workers keeping the Island going doing some jobs that others would not even consider and not for a great wage. And their only crime is a pension that they agreed and signed for when the started. But then again they are easy targets as they cannot reply MrDW
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Dw,
Seeing as public service employees are such a waste of time, space and money can we assume that you won’t be ever using the hospital, needing any help from the Police or the Fire brigade, travelling off the island or any of the numerous vital services that they provide?
You are a muppet.
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Years ago I was a junior in a States Dept, with a middle manager who wasn’t very good at his job, but was a nice enought bloke, He kept his nose clean, stayed well under the radar and sucessfully “damage limited” his cock ups.
Two years before he retired they promoted him way above his payscale, just so he would have a decent pension on retirement, dispite paying into the pension pot as a lower worker for twenty years
This seems to be a States backhanded reward scheme as I know a few who have benifited this way.
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It displeases me, horrifically, to think this way. And be in a position to make this unfortunate post. If I am to be honest with myself, do others feel they need to contribute to the problem so they can qualify as being seen as contributing to some sort of a BS solution, so they can protect their own skins?
Across the board, ordinary people are suffering massive cuts in every way. However, the deemed protected workers seem to be protecting themselves at everybody else’s expense.
I have never claimed to be a genius but to me there seems to be a massive divide happening amongst those that feel they have something to look after. For whatever reason? They’ll, no doubt, fight their own corner in due course.
Is it the case that everybody needs to rush towards being a part of a problem so that they can claim to be working towards a solution?
The way things are, happen to be very ugly indeed.
I’m struggling with this. Unfortunately.
I’m sick and tired with lining the pockets of the wealthy.
Do others share my views?
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Mick,
Under worked and overpaid parasites yes that is a general view from the people who pay the wages of the civil servants. No chance of ever being fired no matter how useless they are. A guaranteed gold plated pension that the tax payer pays for, wage rises every year, most of us in the private sector haven’t had a rise for years and don’t know if we’ll even have a job next week.
The nurses do a good job, the police as to anyone who has ever dealt with them will know just how incompetent they are. Firemen, the best pool players on the island because that’s basically all they do, except for the second jobs they all have. If this was a local council in the UK we would employ a third of the civil servants at about half the wages.
The bottom line is the private sector pays for the public sector and we’re getting a raw deal. As for what Nige said about promoting civil servants before they retire, this has been common practice for decades and has cost us tens of millions of pounds. Another reason I have to work to sixty six, just so the civil servants don’t have to.
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Unbelievable, It has been many years since I have come across such a blinkered tunnel visioned individual, I am surprised you can focus on anything from your saddle at such an high altitude on your horse. Am I missing something as I thought these public service employees paid taxes also. Just to add I will have to work till 67 so you can retire a year earlier.
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Mick the tunnel vision is entirely yours as almost all of us who live in the real world (that’s the world where we in the private sector subsidise the over paid under worked public sector) know just whats going on. By the way you don’t have to work to sixty seven so I can retire at Sixty six, I’ve been working since I was sixteen paying my stamps. I’ve probably worked on average fifty hours a week, not the thirty five the civil servants work so, I will work ten years more than the average civil servant the same age as me, thirty more than a policeman or fireman.
Yes you are missing something, what on earth have “civil servants pay taxes as well” got to do with it? A truly spurious statement if ever I’ve heard one. In your “cloud cuckoo land” if all civil servants were paid a million pounds a year that would be OK then because they would be paying tax on that sum? What a pathetic argument, hold your head in shame, or should I say ignorance.
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The public workers may have gold plated pensions, if they are lucky and got round to joinining the scheme.
Chamber of commerce members, no doubt, will have solid gold pensions probably even matching their final salary rather than linked to it (which, for the benefit of the easily swayed by the right wing media, is what ‘final salary scheme’ actually means).
Why is it the fault of those who have joined contributory pension schemes that others who haven’t thought about their future and can’t see the point of trade unions are (currently) left behind?
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R B Bougourd,
Your statement says much about how little those living in the gold plated cocoon of the civil service know about the private sector. Only a few of us work in high paid jobs, the majority of us work in retail or other poorly paid jobs. For us in the private sector it’s more a case of us not being able to afford a private pension, not a case of us not wanting one. If we paid less tax many of us would happily take out private pensions
The people in the private sector do in fact contribute greatly to pensions, unfortunately they’re for the pensions of the public sector.
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Suggest you join a union, then.
Ooops. I forgot. We dont like unions in the Channel islands, especially in the private sector!
Your choice. Not such a good one nowadays, eh?
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Dw,
You are quite obviously someone who is holding a grudge for failing to meet any form of intelligence test to be employed within the states.
Please don’t be bitter about it you could go to night school and try to gain some form of qualification to enable you to become employable.
The private sector for years have skimmed the cream off the top whilst we have year in year out been surpressed. But hey look how the times have changed, all of a sudden little people like your self throw your rattle out of your pram and stamp your feet wanting what the other children have got (brat).
Well I for one can tell you that it is not all that great for us either bearing in mind I have a much reduced wage which is down to the large amount that I contribute to my own pension which I have no choice but to be part of. This in turn means Working a second job averaging far more hours then your measly 50 just to make ends meet!
By the way, my working week is 44hrs without any overtime, so quite where the 35 comes from is beyond me.
Time for you to go back to your planet I think! Loser
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I left school at 15, never unemployed, work a minimum of 44hrs per week, can be 80+ in summer. Always had to do overtime to make ends meet. Seems like the real world to me. So cannot think why I have to hang my head in shame, cant see where the ignorance comes into the discussion either. Just seeing both sides of the argument, something you will never do. So best of luck in your world wherever it might be.
Oh and PS I’m not a civil servant.
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Vraic eater,
Please don’t presume to know anything about my life. I personally have a well paid job and have never considered working(that’s an oxymoron where you are just a moron) for the States. I have always been a worker and enjoy the rewards of my labour. If I wasn’t subsidising the lazy civil service I would be able to retire earlier. I said I have been told I will have to work until I’m sixty six, fortunately I shall not have to, I am in fact looking at fifty eight because I have been lucky and invested wisely and own a business. Most in the private sector have not been so lucky.
I am merely standing up for the poorly paid private sector workers, workers who have been betrayed by their government.
You and Mick should get together, you could have a nice chat, the conversation wouldn’t be particularly intellectual but at least you wouldn’t confuse each other. Me I’m going to sign off because I find it mind numbing trying to drop down to your level.
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teddy has been thrown out the pram.
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As has his dummy.
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DW,
With an attitude like yours I would be amazed if you do actually own a business.
If you do I’m assuming you don’t employ anybody because I’d be surprised if anyone would want to work for such a narrow minded totally opinionated individual like yourself.
You might have invested wisely, been lucky and be well paid but you most certainly don’t have the ability to get your point across in a rational manner.
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Another thing I probably pay five times as much for my private pension than the average civil servant does. I was looking at double what I will now recieve when I’m sixty. How much has a civil servants pension depreciated over the past few years?
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That’s because private pensions are not so well organised as Local Goverment schemes.
There are far too many mouths in the private sector feeding chain and a very good chance that youn will come a cropper at the last hurdle, choosing an annuity provider. As I said before, “Your choice”.
Shame you made a bad choice. Even a hard nosed business owner can’t always get it right!
By the way, only a fraction of what you pay towards local goverment costs goes towards pensions. For a start, half of the contribution is paid for by the employee, so let’s not get things out of proportion just through envy and trying to sound smart.
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Dw (loser)
I thought you were going to sign off! Knew it would be to tempting to have a little chew on my bait or should I say vraic!
You don’t know what your talking about and have completely contradicted yourself and quite obviously one of those little boys at school that had to exagerate to try and impress.
My dad is bigger than yours so there…Loser
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I think we’ve established that Dw represents a minority view!
Having moved between public and private sector several times over the last 20 years I can confirm the following truisms:
Public
1. Generally less salary
2. Generally better pension
3. Frequently judged by the public no matter how much/little effort you put in
4. No flexibility in working conditions
5. No perks whatsoever
Private
1. Generally better salary
2. Varied pension (M&S was better than the States)
3. Varied reception depending on segemtn you’re employed in
4. Some nice large perks (bonus / generous business trips), some smaller but equally importnat ones (working in a meritocracy, discounts, drinks trolleys, beers on a Friday)
When life dictates that I need greater security (kids, mortgage) I tend to head for public sector, when the sun’s shining I make hay. My choice, made knowing full-well what the consequences will be.
As others have said, if you squeeze them on pension then you’ll end up paying on salary or performance-related pay. It’s a free world and, uncomftable though it may be, people will leave if you lean on them enough. Personally I enjoy the fact I can call A&E, Income Tax, Planning, Housing, etc and get a genuine human on the end of the phone within moments, usually pleasant and helpful. That’s a priviledge these days and one I’m happy to pay a little extra for.
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Nicely put
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If the public sector was really such a great place to work, with its “gold plated pensions” and “parasitic underemployment”, that would explain why people are flocking to do public sector jobs, they never need to use license holders from the UK, there aren’t any recruitment drives to get nurses from the UK, there are no vacant social worker posts, and none of the hospital cleaners have foreign accents…
Errrm, that’d be some alternate universe then.
If you wonder why we’re currently wasting thousands upon thousands of pounds on agency staff and locums given the difficulties recruiting anyone, try the new Chamber of Commerce reality where we pay public sector staff even less.
Or perhaps they’d like it privatised – after all, the MSG consultants are far more poorly paid than their public sector counterparts, aren’t they? [Note to DW: the answer to this question is "no"].
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DW,
If you would be so good as to read Eric’s post, it is an excellent example of a reasonable comparison between private and public sectors put forward in a polite manner, you might learn something!
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DW,
You have gone very quiet, has some overpaid lazy parasitic civil servant hit you over the head with a heavy blunt object?
Or have you realised that you hold a minority view and therefore given up posting?
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“Fighting the hand that greeds” – Guernsey Press 10 December page 6
A message from El Presidente
Yesterday, in the Board room of Plenty, El Presidente argued for yet more concessions for his industry. Dressed in full finance junta regalia of an impossibly expensive suit, cufflinks made from the shrunken skull of the world economy and an impressive selection of power hankies in his breast pocket, El Presidente stood up and spoke.
“During the Glorious Revolution of 2008, the inspirational Sir Frederico Buenaswinnero of Royalo Banco de Scotlando heroically showed us how we could privatise corporate profits in the form of massive bonuses for the few and yet nationalise the crippling losses caused by our unsurpassed greed and stupidity.
In the history of Banana Republicism, was there ever a more historic achievement than this?
In Guernsey, we can be justifiably proud of the 0-10 tax policy which has pushed our own Government into running a deficit. But we must be vigilant and resist to the last man any increase in TRP for our industry which is already far lower than any rates tariff in the UK.
Furthermore, I am announcing a new form of democracy (a bananocracy) in which businesses will vote instead of people.
The new Guernsey Registry makes it easier than ever to set up a company. I have already ensured that its website contains a new feature called a Lobbytomy- available to Finance sector companies and their directors only. This enhancement will allow such companies to lobby electronically for favourable corporate concessions which will immediately become Law. Together, we will make Sir Frederico proud.”
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