Injured man’s daughter calls for retesting of elderly motorists
Monday 5th December 2011, 11:30AM GMT.
Gordon Le Messurier will be in hospital for his golden wedding anniversary and possibly for Christmas after being run over and trapped under an elderly motorist’s car outside Alliance. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1198871)
OLDER drivers must be retested at a certain age before someone is killed in a traffic accident, Tracey Gallienne has said after her father was seriously injured.
Her dad, 76-year-old Gordon Le Messurier, faces months in hospital after a car driven by an elderly woman struck him in the Alliance car park last month.
Mrs Gallienne said that incident was not an isolated case and there were increasing numbers of older islanders involved in crashes.
‘I know it is not only elderly drivers who have accidents, but after my dad there was another last week [by the Ship & Crown]. It was fortunate it wasn’t a child walking there,’ she said.
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I agree most strongly with Tracy’s coherent suggestion that elderly drivers be retested! I have been shocked having read of the various crashes elderly drivers have been either invovled in or worse still, culpable for!! iT IS a most rational and frankly, politically fair decsion and will undoubtedely, save many lives and hopefully reduce the number of OAP or any other accidents!!
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When I am on the roads I regularly see drivers:
speeding
making desperate overtaking manoeuvres
not stopping at yellow lines
jumping traffic lights (does anyone remember the days when guernsey drivers stopped at amber?
ignoring filters
splashing pedestrians
driving on footpaths
parking on footpaths
parking inconsiderately to use phone
These drivers are not necessarily elderly, so please don’t look at the elderly in isolation. Take a broader look, police the roads properly, and make the roads safer for everyone.
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It’s an idea that could work, however I disagree with a full test, perhaps a small test to check they can manoeuvre a car safely. For some elderly people having a car is a lifeline.
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Mr G
I agree re the shortened version of the test,one of the main reasons being that the test waiting list is currently several months long (not entirely sure about that)
Add all the over 70s? 75s? to that list and some of them will have gone to the big car park in the sky by the time their turn arrives
There may be a need to take on additional testers
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I agree with Mr G, a full test is not required. I doubt I would pass a full test these days to be honest, too many bad habits picked up over the years. What is needed is a test of both coordination and reflexes.
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So why stop at the Elderly? Why not force everyone – everyone – to have some sort of retest every e.g., 5 years? My dear old Ma is not “elderly” but she’s an awful driver.
A car is a lifeline to most people, but if you’re not safe driving it, you shouldn’t be. End of.
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Increased age by itself is not a risk factor, if anything, the risk of an accident decreases with age and when older adults do have an accident it is usually a small one. Having said that, there are conditions more likely to be suffered by the elderly which increases their personal risk of having an accident, for example, arthritis, frailty, parkinsons, anything effecting eyesight, medication they are on…. etc etc.. and all of these are in fact already controlled and assessed by their doctor as to whether they will significantly impact on their driving and therefore whether they can drive or not. Whilst I sympathise with the injured man and his family, the elderly who have conditions which may effect driving are already assessed by their doctors and I believe doubling up on this assessment would be at best an unnecessary waste of resources and at worst discriminatory.
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All drivers with eye problems would go to their doctor,if he considers them unfit to drive then the authorities should be informed.I do not believe one can fairly discriminate against older drivers,after all most serious accidents are caused by younger people speeding or driving dangerously.Its as simple as this – “if you drink,don’t drive”"If you can’t see properly” – don’t drive!
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I sympathise with Tracey and her father’s accident, but because an elderly person is involved in an accident, you can’t suddenly say, start testing all elderly people.
Start by looking at the statistics and i think you may find that the worst accident ratio is in an entirly different age group.
The majority of elderly drivers have become far more careful and experienced as they get older. Many proffessional drivers and tradesmen are in their 60′s. That’s not to say some are not particularly good drivers but the same applies to all age groups.
It all depends on the individual, so if you are suggesting tests more often it must be right accross the board, covering every age group and that would be another bureaucratic nightmare.
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Perhaps there should be a ban on oldies driving automatics.
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A basic test can’t do any harm if it help’s prevent accident’s such as these.
Just to check things like reading a number plate from the correct distance,speed limits ect. As someone said in an earlier comment, we can’t just single out the elderly, 17 is way to young for people to drive over here,careless drivers.
If you think about your main prolem with Elderly people it will be they drive to slow.
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You are an idiot. The UK has a much more complex road system, where the age to drive is also 17. It’s a jolly driving over here compared to the UK.
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This is exactly what I said when The 90yr old gentleman had the accident last week.
Testing should be compulsory for everyone every 5 or ten years with it being every year or 2 for over 65s + an eye test.
A shorter test mainly focusing on reactions and observance would be sensible.
Also if there are not enough driving examiners, a medical examination testing these things could be a good alternative.
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Local resident,
Lets get all the statistics before we go jumping in at the deep end, you may find its the younger drivers who cause the most accidents and should have tests every few years. It may be the middle aged. The Police should have all the statistics, lets have them published or are they secret like the Education department statistics.
You would also be looking at a huge bureaucratic expensive exercise.
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Its got nothing to do with speeding. Its bad driving plain and simple, driving too fast for the conditions comes under that. It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with a random number on a lolly pop sign.
People over 75 should have a “cut down” version of the driving test as already mentioned. This test should have a focus on reactions. A Few people jumping to the defence of these older drivers. Yet they are not so forthcoming when its a young person that has had an accident. Double standards, particularly when recently its older people that are causing most crashes.
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Nothing to do with speeding? If the driver had been speeding it would be a much worse outcome for Gordon.
Double standards? Its not double standards when its a statistically proven fact that mature drivers are safer drivers. Why do you think insurance companies charge less for drivers who are over 25? Some insurance companies even charge less for women regardless of age.
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Rachel, I’m afraid I agree with SS on this one.
‘Speeding’ as most understand it is completely arbitrary. Doing 35mph on a road with a 35mph limit may, on a day with thick fog be wholly inappropriate. Technically, it isn’t speeding but the speed is inappropriate in the circumstances.
The same would apply to driving past a school at kicking out time, the limit may be 25mph but with parents abondoning cars left right and centre and the offspring running around the place it could well be deemed inappropriate to drive at 25mph.
So, I believe (apologies SS if this wasn’t what you meant) that SS was implying that the problem is actually drivers being incapable of assessing an appropriate speed and thus driving poorly. It has nothing to do with a number which has been arbitrarily selected as the speed limit.
Why do I say arbitrarily? Well, there’s plenty of evidence that the severity of accidents decreases as speed during a collision decreases. Surely then the logical conclusion is to have a zero speed limit. No movement, no accidents, no injuries. It follows then that someone has made an arbitrary choice of a speed that they think is a reasonable balance of risk and reward. Why not 30mph or 40mph etc etc?
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Having re-read what SS said, I believe you are right in that is what he meant -and I agree. Speeding, whether it is going significantly above the limit or driving too fast for the conditions is “bad driving plain and simple”. Saw a man reversing his 4WD at speed in a local school playground at pickup time yesterday. I’m pretty sure he thought he was pretty good and was showing of his reversing talents whilst luckily no children walked out from behind other vehicles. Just another example of bad driving.
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Older drivers are generally safer on the roads. The problem is, they won’t give up their independance willingly.
The responsibility for this should rest with the individuals Doctor. Every five years, those aged 65 and over, would be required to undergo a basic medical, which would include an eye test, simple co-ordination, and movement, i.e if you can’t turn your head to look over your shoulder your not likley to see the motorcyclist untill you’ve pulled out in front of him.
Doctors would then be required by law to submit these findings to the relevant authorities. Most of the older motorists have had the same Doctor for many years, so this would discourage any manipulation of the results.
Make the examination cheap, or even free, as a road safety initiative.
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Problem with this is that doctors charge a lot. If this were to be done it would have to be a specifically run nurse clinic which would still be a lot of money. Eyesight is already tested when you renew your license and persons who have ailments are already advised when they see their doctor. It is already done. The only step which is not already done is sending this information to the police… but is that necessary? Anyone advised not to drive by a health professional is automatically not covered by insurance, so the onus is on the individual not be an idiot -this is what I was told after a few major operations I have had (I’m in my 30s btw).
Perhaps a simple notification to health professionals to have driving on the agenda when they see a patient regardless of age. It wouldn’t hurt to ensure that health professionals have this at the front of their minds. Whether it be a case of chronic arthritis or a rugby injury, to speak to the patient about their risk of driving, is equally relevant.
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A ban on female drivers would make the roads a safer place
These are the facts
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Doctors are vulnerable to pressure from patients.
There is much to be gained from going back to school at regular points in your life and it can improve brain function to brush up your learning and take a test.
It would be beneficial to all to have a full test at five yearly intervals from 70.
In terms of letting go – compromising the safety of others for your own independence is selfish.
The future is brightening through, park assist cars are now mainstream, some expect a fully automated car, such as that currently being tested by Google, to be mainstream within a decade. The loss of independence could be borne by only a small number of people.
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In my view the overall road driving standard on Guernsey is poor. Young speeders, hapless mums in their enormous 4x4s that they can’t really drive, pavement surfers everywhere and of course the permanent Sunday Drivers who should have given their car up long ago.
So, why not re-test everyone? Logistically difficult at first but rules could be implemented whereby drivers are re-tested every 10 years until over the age of 60 then a re-test every 5 years. Driving licences currently run for 10 years so it could be made a requirement to that to renew your driving licence you are re-tested.
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You can pay for my retest every 10 years.
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PBFalla
I think you’ll find that statistically young male drivers cause more incidents.
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Disagree.
I bet the total population of women drivers have caused more accidents/been involed in more accidents then males under 25.
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LOL Ooft! “I bet the total population of women drivers” -well I suppose they just might since their total numbers would well exceed (triple? quadrouple? ) those of male drivers under 25. I also love how you included “been involved in an accident [they haven't caused]” like that is relevant. But if you were to go with equal percentages and only those who “cause” the accident, women cause significantly less – which is why insurance companies target women drivers and some even openly charge them less.
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Completely false, it’s been proven that when women do crash they just don’t claim on their insurance – so there are fewer claims from women. They may crash far more than men.
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G – Doesn’t make it false at all. All it proves is that women have minor fender-benders which cost less to fix than paying the excess on the insurance. Whereas, men when they crash they do the job properly and therefore cost their insurance companies a lot more. But stats show that young women are driving more aggressively and closing the gap quickly, so give a few years and you may indeed be right.
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As I written in other threads all drivers should be retested every six years, driving is the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis to only have one test in a lifetime is totaly inaderquate.
Scooter read your highway cod, you do not have to stop on amber. Also you may have to stop to filter in turn, but in other circumstances you do not have to stop at a filter. Please note it is filter in turn, not wait your turn.
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You may be technically correct about not having to stop on amber but there are plenty of drivers who make no attempt to stop (the amber is there to warn you of the impending red light after all) and then end up going through a red light (and those who blatently go through red lights – I’ve had cars come across in front of me at Admiral park after my light has changed to green before)
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How about educating the vast majority of local drivers who still dont know how to use roundabouts and traffic lanes properly. Traffic lane discipline in Guernsey is appalling.
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Today I took my yearly seniors medical to keep my driving licence here in Australia. However I don’t think it is fair because
exhaustive investigations into traffic accidents has proved that senior drivers are the safest drivers on the road. (I’ve been driving since 1946 without hitting anyone or anything).
In fact the most accidents involve those in the under 25 age group and next in line is the middle aged.
Seniors, unlike Juniors, know that they are fragile and are more careful because of it.
If you really want to make the roads safer then institute a psychiatric test before a licence is issued – I doubt if more than 60%
would pass!
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There was another one yesterday at Elizabeth Ave, 71 yrs old stationary motorist crashed into an oncoming woman..
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I FEEL I HAVE TO STICK UP FOR THE GENERAL DRIVING POPULATION AS MOST OF US ARE NOT AS BAD AS IS MADE OUT. HOWEVER, THERE ARE GROUPS WHO ARE A HIGHER RISK.
UNDER 25′S (HENCE THE INCREASE IN INSURANCE) & OVER 70′S!
TOO MUCH SPEED AS WELL AS TOO LITTLE SPEED ARE DANGEROUS IN EQUAL MEASURE. UNCERTAINTY, HESITATION, WEAK OBSERVATIONS AND NO COMMON SENSE CAUSE SIMILAR PROBLEMS TO HIGH SPEED AND INEXPERIENCE.
OLDER DRIVERS SHOULD BOW OUT TO AGE AND YOUNGER DRIVERS SHOULD HELP OUT OUR OLDER AND WISER CITIZENS………. OOPS, I THINK I MAY HAVE OPENED UP AN EVEN DEEP SOCIAL DEBATE THERE!
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CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
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Writing in caps has definitely helped your argument.
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A young driver,
I wonder why older drivers in general pay cheaper insurance.
Your comment is far too general and one of the problems is that the problem isn’t general, it tends to be more specific to drivers of all ages.
There are good and bad drivers of every age group so why try to penalise any particular group. The secret must be to find the bad drivers and penalise them.
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I Drive 1000s of Kms in France, Spain, Portugal and the UK each Year. The Driving Standard in Guernsey is the worse that I have come across!
When there are Road Works, Signs are littered around the Place, causing an Obstruction to Motorist.
Road Markings are crazy. e.g. Going North from Weighbridge Roundabout. two Lanes merge into One, how many times have you been Cut Off by an Idiot in the Left Hand Lane, pulling across to the Right? Did Question this with the Police once, they could not see a problem.
Get rid of the Dangerous Speed Bumps, especially those by Cobo Bay. Wonder if they will go when all the Lorries are moving stuff to the Airport?
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The 2 into 1 lane marking happen all over the place, including the UK and Europe so I’m not sure what surprises you about that?
If you think about it – what it allows is for 2 cars to enter the roundabout and merge just after the exit, thus at busy times twice as much traffic can cross the roundabout reducing queues on the other side of the roundabout. In practice, it also allows traffic turning up Bosq Lane to do so without inconveniencing those going straight on.
Personally, I think it’s one of the few examples of good road design in Guernsey, just a shame most drivers don’t understand how to use it.
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Rosie did you see Dave’s first line !
Rosie?
Rosie?
Are you alright Rosie!
ROSIE!
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Ray; – Well don’t just stand there….Pass the smelling salts will you!
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How about a simulator ? That would be a lot cheaper for the tax payer and less stressful for the elderly person involved.
Old folks could have a reation and eyesight test very quickly and cheaply that way. If a problem is identified then they could go on to have a more comprehensive road test.
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Theo
I reckon Jenson Button will know where we could get hold of decent second hand one on the cheap
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To look at from a slightly different angle, how many accidents do we really have? Its not that bad. And when was the last road death? Fortunately we don’t get that many at all. You have to be pragmatic, accidents happen sometimes. Some people are being a bit over the top. Lane discipline, reading road signs and the general standard of driving over here is pretty poor, but its only because most people have a laid back attitude due to the speeds being so slow. We don’t want the police crawling all over the roads penalising people for every misdemeanour. Surely we’d rather they concentrate on serious crimes where there is actually a victim. The slower, causual way of life is one of the nice things about life on Guernsey.
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SS,
‘You have to be pragmatic, accidents happen sometimes. Some people are being a bit over the top’
On a previous post about a week ago regarding the older gentlemen that overshot the end of the pier you stated that he should be sent to prison.
That was really pragmatic and not at all over the top then?
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Nothing wrong with a casual attitude as long as its safe is what I was saying. An old man ploughing into one of our busiest pedestrian crossings that regularly has scores of people on it, surely requires significant punishment.
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It’s still an accident regardless of where it takes place, are you suggesting if he had overshot a junction in a deserted St Peters lane and hit a hedge opposite that would make a difference to his punishment?
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ban the internet,and lawyers!
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and ban internet lawyers!
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Older chap makes a mistake and all people in that demograph require retesting? Hello?
Some portions of the Island’s commentators do a great line in collective punishment.
Gee whizz!!
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Young drivers are the most dangerous because of the speed they use,overtaking 2 vehicles which were doing 30 at Northside on wet roads,(to do so they must have been going at 50 plus).Also had 1 overtake at the Bridge end of Bulwer Avenue,I was doing about 30 and they overtook at speed on a corner on the wrong side of 3 sets of traffic islands.
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Not all young people are like this!
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If the ‘elderly driver’ in question is 90 years of age, or thereabouts, the chances are that he never took a driving test in the first place, he will not be alone in this regard.
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A competence test should be mandatory once drivers reach a certain age (similarly how taxi drivers are required to undergo a full medical etc once they reach 60).
The course need not take long testing the essentials including, in my opinion:-
Eyesight test
Awareness & Reaction test
Whether they can competently manoeuvre the vehicle (e.g park properly)
and whether can adequately operate the functions in their vehicle
I believe an initial programme could be of benefit with the police inviting a select group of individuals, not necessarily all elderly, to take part. Who knows – the participants may learn something to help with their driving, rather than having a pass/fail exam
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Vix – a very sensible post and what I was getting at with mine!!
I think the french system is brilliant. you can learn to drive at 16 or 17 but can’t take your test or drive unaccompanied until you are 18 when you then have to legally wear P plates on your car for 2 years to show you are a new driver.
This would hopefully reduce the number of ‘Kevs’, and speeders especially if your person accompanying you has to be at least 25 so they have had at least 6 years experience.
Also it would be good if they could restrict these cars to 30mph unless you were taking it to the UK!!!
17 is very young to be driving unaccompanied and the 2 extra years with another experienced driver in the car would hopefully give you the right attitude to be able to drive safely.
what are peoples thoughts on this?
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I think you are possibly one of the most short sighted people I have every had the joy of reading the opion of.
All the people that blame it on young drivers, the problem is actually inexperienced drivers.
Moving the age up will just shift the demographic up. The accompanyment is possibly a solution to this, but is impractical and would be hugely unpopular.
Also why would they restrict a car to 30mph when the speed limit is 35mph?
Most places seem to be 18 to drive, which some places being as low as 16.
I think the problem as i said is inexperience for young drivers. And we should look to the swedish driving test, where they get taught practically about driving in wet/snowy conditions and how to correct skids and other hazardous situations.
This doesnt make the driver any older, but it does make them more experienced.
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17 is not too young to start learning to drive. What a load of rubbish.
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In the Isle of Man, you can drive and pass your test at the age of 16. Once you pass, you have to have an “R” plate on your car and go at no more than 50 mph.
There is however, a very good “Road Safety” programme that goes around the schools and collages. Run in conjunction with the Govt’s Road Safety Unit, along with the Police and Fire Service, they will stage a mock car crash and demonstrate cutting someone out of a car. They also have a car on a trailer in which a 17 year old girl lost her life. Added to the display of photos taken at fatal road accidents, and guest speakers including the parents of a young person killed in a road accident helps to encourage the young drivers themselves to be a bit more responsible for their actions.
We have had a few young people sent to prision following being convicted for death by dangerous driving from where they have crashed into another car, or been the driver of a car that has crashed and killed a passenger of theirs.
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Good driving is about thought, consideration and good manners, not age or physical condition. Boiled right down it is MENTAL CONDITION.
Somebody mentioned going from L plate to P plates, which is what we have here in Australia and, guess what, P platers figure in the most and worst road accidents.
Bry
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