Business bemoans charge on immigration
Friday 23rd December 2011, 2:29PM GMT.
CHARGING immigration fees for non-EU nationals adds an extra cost that could restrict the recruitment of the best people for the job, businesses have said.
The Guernsey Border Agency announced the charge, which will apply from 1 February and will bring Guernsey into line with other jurisdictions in the Common Travel Area, raising approximately £50,000 a year.
Dominic Wheatley (pictured), managing director of insurance management company Willis Management, said the cost of employing non-EU staff would mean businesses would have to look more carefully at where they recruited from.
That could restrict the pool of expertise and talent that was vital to a knowledge-based economy, he said.
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Oh dear Dominic, what`s it like to feel some of the resrictions that the poorer people are feeling during this credit squeeze.
We don`t want to hear you bleating and whining about your “hard times”. We have to live with it and I suggest two things, (1) search locally, and (2) Live with it.
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What an idiot Mr Dominic is, I think migrants should have to have over £50k in the bank.
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How about looking on your own doorstep Mr Wheatley. OR GOD FORBID, train a local and along with other businesses create a local pool of expertise. I will bet there is a local able to do the job, god you lot make me sick. If you don’t like our island leave, don’t try to change our way of life to suit yours.
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If I read the article correctly, company directors are not merely content with zero rates of tax for their businesses. They are now expecting government to do things on their behalf for free. In this case, it’s the processing of non EU employee paperwork.
So, having established that to be competitive with other jurisdictions, Guernsey companies must (on pain of Bailiwick Financial Armageddon) pay no tax; directors are now arguing that they shouldn’t even pay the fees (in this case immigration charges for employees) that are routinely charged in other jurisdictions.
In the same article, the MD of an accountancy firm has courageously argued the harshness of this immigration charge for his business, because his firm supports the finance industry. How noble. Of course, by supporting he actually means charging eye-watering hourly rates for a lot of adding- up and taking -away.
They can’t even say they weren’t warned that the States would increase charges once the effects of zero-10 took hold. Perhaps, embarrassingly, they forgot to put aside contingencies in their annual budgets for such increases.Oops.
To conclude, why should tax payers pay for the government to provide these type of services for free to non tax paying companies?
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When you think of non-tax paying companies make sure you think of all zero tax rated companies such as those owned by local traders, restaurant owners, shop owners, not just those in Finance. There are services provided by the government that they all receive that they do not directly pay tax for.
It may interest you to know that certain banking activities are actually taxed at 10% and I believe this is the industry you take the biggest issue with.
The strategy is to not charge tax to these companies because of the net wealth creation benefit. If you want them to start paying for government services on the whole that does sound like paying tax. This is contra to the strategy and illogical.
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Dani
Every Seasonal Noelitude
I’m sure we both have an understanding of both Guernsey’s fiscal strategy and some of its more notable associated arrangements
Where we differ, perhaps, is on the question of how appropriate this strategy and some of its attendant legislation is for Guernsey.
You appear to be certain that it is and, presently, you have the majority siding with you; I am still to be convinced.
More on this story later.
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Only fat cats will complain!
So not enough kitties within the EU to recruit from?
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Twilight of Fairness – A Christmas Horror Story
From his castle in Taxplanvania, a shadowy presence transposed into a true and fair view of human form. Count Beans was worried. The figures he extracted from his dusty nominal ledger confirmed his fears. The old Count was broke and, worse, his fangs were in need of urgent attention.
With the high level of dentistry fees in Guernsey, he desperately needed to keep all the profit from his bloodsucking business ? With April elections looming, there was a chance that the breathers would re-impose corporate.
taxation at 10%, even 5% would be an utter disaster.
He decided to pen yet another speech which he would give to the Assembly of the Barely Alive.
“As you know the States is tasked with deciding how to fill the Black Abyss of Doom. It is vital that everyone (no matter what their circumstances) makes up the shortfall with further personal tax increases.
May I remind you; any attempt to require companies (or their shareholders) to contribute even a small bite of their profit to the social infrastructure in which they prosper means you will all have a terrible life.
If you don’t believe it as a fact, I invite you, at least, to collude in its popular fiction.
It’s very important to people like me that you all comply with this arrangement. Along with other undead professionals, we provide services to the banks and other finance institutions at the most enormous hourly rates. Just calculate what you earn in a day. We can earn five times that amount in a single hour which also includes drinking a cup of blood, checking the footy results and doing some online shopping. And we can work long into the night.
So I urge you, breathers, please do not look into this matter too closely. After all, what could be a greater achievement for the tax planning industry than to ensure that companies never ever paid tax.
It would be a triumph and with your hypnotised disengagement with what is happening, this fiscal utopia could be a reality.”
He realised it wasn’t a great speech. It was essentially the same one he had been giving every week for what seemed like the last 300 years.
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Sums it up pretty well really, soon the financial institutions will start charging Guernsey for being based here!
Oh sorry, we are already paying for them.
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Erm… I don’t think that he is whining about hard times.
He is just saying it is an extra cost (that was not there before) that will effect who is hired. It is fairly logical and reasonable to say. Ask someone from any industry if they like extra charges on their business and what are they going to say?
Willis is an international business, as are many others on this island. They do employ local people but as they operate in many different jurisdictions it is a huge advantage to have experience and knowledge from those jurisdictions within the company.
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Dani,
If the Guernsey Border Agency are talking about raising £50k annually through these immigration fees surely the amount charged per employee is peanuts relatively speaking?
I don’t know how many immigrants come into Guernsey each year to work but even if it costs £1k a person in fees and they are the right person for the job it must be a small price to pay in proportion to their salaries.
Mr Wheatley must think we were born yesterday if he expects anyone to believe this would be a factor in finance industries deciding to recruit specialist employees from overseas!
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I cannot fault your logic that it is probably a small amount in comparison to their salaries. I am just responding to the above comments.
I would add though that I imagine it really is the hassle factor of another additional expense that serves no purpose but to raise revenue because they want it.
I am no expert on this either but if they want the specialist they have to fork out the money for them first, then the border agency fee, then the essential licence fee if they can get one, that is probably a lengthy costly process. Possibly even open market and relocating costs. I would find that more off putting as a whole than the small fee.
Thinking about it the housing licence fee serves as an immigration charge anyway?
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it is not all about the finance sector.The hospitality industry can and probably will pass on any extra cost to the customer.
I can assure you that most employers in hospitality would be delighted to
Save money and employ local but they will in the main not do this kind of work
As they can work in finance.
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Did Mr Wheatley say this publicly of his own accord or was he approached by a reporter and asked about the charge. If that latter is correct then he was giving an honest answer and not whinging about the charge.
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He chairs GIBA, which covers the interests of all business sectors in Guernsey. The fact of the matter is that Guernsey runs the risk of pricing itself out of the market – yet another barrier to doing business on the island.
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Jock,
How do you reach the conclusion that Guernsey is at risk of pricing itself out of the market?
Just how much more can Guernsey afford to give away?
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i seem to remember that Jock has declared himself as a proud ‘non local’ in former debates, Kevin, and is not a particular fan of the attitude of some of the revolting peasants, aka the ‘locals’ or their attitudes/opinions regarding certain issues.
They earn huge profits and pay zero tax – and we, of course, have to be (and generally are) pretty gracious and grateful for the local employment crumbs from their substantial, enormous world encompassing table – so what else do you suggest, Jock?
Would sacrificing the first new-born from each household be enough, do you think? Perhaps any virgins should offer themselves up to the higher up banking overlords as a thank you present?
Please, enlighten us to what else we can do to express our overwhelming, forelock-pulling, never-ending gratitude for finance so altruistically blessing us with their god-like presence, and there is no doubt in my mind that our Government would consider your proposal in a heartbeat.
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Sorry I forget locals read this site too -it was a metaphor. Next time I will spell it out so everyone can understand my posts!
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…any opportunity to have a pop at the ‘ignorant’ locals can’t be missed, ay Jock, even if you make banal comments you can’t expand on based on ridiculous claims you can’t substantiate.
Gosh, it must be such a trial you having to live here with all this ignorance and narrow mindedness, thank you so much for continuing to grace us with your presence.
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The abolition of Conseillers, the recent power cut and now Customs charging a few quid to process job applications will all have a catastrophic effect on the Finance Sector.
Do these people think before they open their mouths?
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Did you get a T-pad for Christmas? (Part 1 of 2)
This Christmas, I got the best present ever. It’s called a T(ruth)- pad. Powered by logic, the T-pad always gives the right answer to any question requiring a choice to be made. Here, in simplistic terms, is how it works. For any given question the T-pad calculates the following:-
1) The precise detail and number of choices that are available to be made
2) All the possible outcomes and consequences of selecting a particular choice
and
3) it can rank all these choices in order of preference/success.
Much better than the human brain don’t you think? On our own, we struggle to name our favourite song or type of dog, let alone what the economic and social effect of wholesale changes to a tax regime might be.
People say to me “Hobbes, you’re such a berk”. I like this. It makes a refreshing change from “Hobbes, what are you doing inside my fridge?” Why? Because I know they are really referring to Edmund Burke the political theorist of the 18th Century.
Burke respected traditions and institutions and didn’t like change. He realised the limitations of the ability of the human mind and the use of reason in advising on the complex matters relating to to economic and social upheaval. Therefore, he thought, any alteration to the status quo had to be considered very carefully.
Unfortunately, the T-pad hasn’t yet been invented. In considering changes to a tax regime we’ve still only got our brains and perhaps a few spreadsheets to assist us. But what we actually need is a device to help us through points 1-3 above.
This is why I am, perhaps, a bit of a Burke. The seismic tax changes enacted in 2008 were a gamble even before Global Financial Armageddon set in. It is not possible to calculate the far reaching consequences of this legislation.
To those who said we had to do something, I’m not sure if this was the answer or whether 2008 was the time to do it.
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And while we’re at it let’s introduce work permits as per Bahamas, Cayman, Bermuda and most of the the Caribbean finance centres. That will bring in a nice bit of revenue and concentrate minds on who is essential and who’s not…
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Yawn, yawn – you are clearlly someone that enjoys the upside of finance being on the island, but happy to sit in your underpants posting xenophobic posts about licence holders.
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Do impressive words always work when you don’t have a proper reply to an argument, Jock? The X one is getting tad old, but covers a multitude of non sins from people who dare remark on anything from finance to population control.
I personally am still trying to work out the deeper meaning of your previous ‘metaphorical’ post, but the mud on my wellies appears to be blocking any sentient, logical thought….
never mind, back to the fields I go, eagerly awaiting your next post (once you’ve trolled through the Oxford English to find a suitably outstanding word you can post) which although means next to nothing, improves my sadly lacking yokel vocabulary no end!! :)
ps. thanks yet again for staying around to enlighten us all, I don’t know how we ever managed without you.
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Remove the chip from your shoulder and get a life. My views are always pro Guernsey… I try and think about the future of the island instead of hanging on to memories of the past.
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Where exactly am I – or ANYONE in this debate – ‘hanging on to the memories of the past’, Jock?
I’m sorry your inability to substantiate any of your comments has galled you so. I simply wanted your observations explained more fully, and perhaps debated them, rather than be subjected to derogatory ‘typical local’ remarks, a generalisation I as a ‘local’ find equally ‘xenophobic’.
The logic of some ‘non locals’ is that ‘we’ should not bite the (metaphorical) finance/big business hand that feeds. Fine, but, following that logic, the ‘non locals’ ‘we’ allow in to benefit from that shouldn’t criticise us, as we are the (metaphorical) hand feeding THEM by allowing them to do so…
fortunately, it’s a free world, and that’s not the case. Nor should it be.
Perhaps the ‘locals’ from where-ever you hail from don’t mind being denigrated and ‘corrected’ by the ‘importees’, Jock, and if they do, then totally fair play, ‘we’ could learn a lot from them, I’m sure…
but I’m guessing it might not go down very well there, either.
C’est la vie, as they say.
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Did you get a T-bag for Christmas? (Part 2 of 2)
1773 was a great year for tea drinkers in America. That year, they got fed up of paying the 3 pence per pound tea duty to Britain.
In protest, they turned the harbour in Boston into the biggest teapot of all time. These dissenters also had a list of wider grievances which included paying taxes on a variety of other everyday goods.
Sound familiar? We all got hammered for further duty increases on similar goods (booze, petrol and ciggys) in 2011. The Colonists though had that really snappy slogan “No taxation without representation.”
Unfortunately, in Guernsey, our catchphrase is “No corporate taxation (subject to a few exceptions) with endless representations from Chamber of Commerce, GIBA, IOD,CIOB, and similar self-interest groups”.
Yay!. You can see why we most of us stay at home watching Harry Hill instead of engaging with any sort of political process.
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Gsyman
I think you will find that work permits of the type you allude to would be illegal here for EU citizens. In any event, what would it achieve? Those Caribbean islands and Bermuda are full of over-promoted and over-protected locals who land senior jobs solely because they are local, even though they are nowhere near qualified or suitable for that level of role. Locals should always be given preference when they are good enough, but not just because they are local.
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Well said
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Yes fair point but I still believe trying to control immigration via housing controls is not as effective as some form of work permit. Some of us locals do make the grade, many of my contemporaries have reached top positions in the finance sector as well as in industry. As for EU citizenship, I can’t work in the EU without a visa as I have the stamp in my passport to say I have no right of establishment there.
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For EU non-locals their housing licence is their “right to work” permit in Guernsey. For all non-EU non-locals they must also have a work permit, which is issued by immigration.
Employing non-locals is an expensive and disruptive process. Hence, I would always try and employ locals wherever possible, but as you will appreciate the talent pool is limited (especially for more senior positions). There is no silver bullet solution to this issue and everyone has there opinion on how to solve it. I will keep my views on the issue to myself as anything I post seems to set Scarlett off on a “poor little me” rant.
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