Constable has favoured war memorial move for years
Tuesday 27th December 2011, 2:29PM GMT.
Peter Frankland’s picture montage shows what the war memorial could look like if it was moved west from its current position so that it sat at the entrance to the Sunken Garden.
ONE of the St Peter Port constables has backed a suggestion for the Smith Street war memorial to be moved and said he had been saying this for years.
Dennis Le Moignan said he agreed with Bob Place that it should be moved because of the difficulties it posed for the annual Service of Remembrance.
‘I have been saying for the past three years that something should be done about it because it is on a slope and people do find it difficult.
‘I know of some people who don’t come to the service any more because they just can’t stand on the slope at the top of Smith Street.
‘I know the douzaine and I would all like to see something done about it, but a lot of thought needs to go into it,’ he said.
Thursday 23 February
- Recycling and export is the way forward for waste
- UK mail will arrive later
- Free motoring supplement
- Herm prepares for summer
- Win a night at the White House
Island Life
All about Guernsey
Ambassador of the Year 2011
History & Heritage
Visitor Information
Guernsey's government
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Useful Links
Looks too big to go there .. measurements are wrong.
Leave it where it is !
Report abuse
The prison is about to get a multi thousand pound new workshop I believe
Make their first project a demountable wooden ‘stage’ that would fit the contours of the sloping roadway to provide a level surface for the annual service
Report abuse
where are they going to get the money from to finance this, i thought money was tight at the moment? you are going to get all those yobs swinging from it who hang around the sunken gardens,
Report abuse
And the Press wonder why young people are not interested in Politics!!
A very admirable cause but totally out of touch with the needs of the electorate in today’s economic climate.
Report abuse
No disrespect meant but why not move the monument to the back of the Garden where it will sit against a backdrop of trees and dominate a peaceful town garden.
The service of Rememberance could then be held inside the sunken garden area with viewing access for the public from the overlooking surrounding walls.
I think it would be a great setting unmarred by the parking of motorcycles parked in front of it.
Report abuse
sunken gardens + war memorial
= prime real estate
Report abuse
Thank you all you people Men, boys, girls and honourable women who gave their all that we might live in harmony.
But some idiots are against all that and are trying to use feeble excuses to have the Memorial removed.
Difficult for people to attend a service they say;
Yet it wasn’t difficult for those brave souls who gave their all, for idiots like those who wish to change things.
I am not a vicious man, but this time I hope those who propose such things, get their just rewards for even suggesting such a thing, may sickness and poverty lurk on their doorsteps, I’m a Guernsey man and believe in the power of stranger happenings that I forecast.
Report abuse
Islander
Why are you being so hateful? No-one is suggesting the memorial be “removed” but simply moved to somewhere where many people will find it easier for them to show the respect the memorial deserves.
You say you are not a vicious man – but your post makes you sound like a very nasty and spiteful one.
Report abuse
Well Andy
You are of course entitled to your views on any subject, as indeed am I.
That is one of the the things those people who gave their lives , that we may be allowed such freedom of speech.
So it doesn’t appeal to all, but take a look around the ‘net’ and see for yourself the suffering these men fought against, They gave their lives that we may criticise in years after.
I visited ‘Belsen’ whilst serving in Germany, I wish not to talk of that place.
However just outside the entrance to Belsen, is a huge burial place for British service personal, a hillside covered with hundreds of Graves,
Guernsey honoured these people of all races by erecting a Monument; now some jumped up official wishes to remove it to another site; I say that is totally unacceptable,
My reason is that all who enter town from Ann’s place or the Grange, must pass this wonderful honour from Guernsey People, and then again when leaving.
Any discomfort by people on the day of remembrance is a small price to pay, and… I believe the people who suggest moving the memorial is making up a yarn about this; they try many dirty trick ways, and it’s time they were kicked out.
Guernsey is fast becoming as bad as the UK, and Guernsey ways are diminishing for the evil Finance.
Report abuse
Islander,
“I visited ‘Belsen’ whilst serving in Germany, I wish not to talk of that place.
However just outside the entrance to Belsen, is a huge burial place for British service personal, a hillside covered with hundreds of Graves,”
Your own words, and put in for effect I believe because such a burial place for British service personnel does not exist just outside the entrance to Belsen.
Before you publish such a blatant lie then remember that others have visited the site.
I served in Hohne Camp for three years and visited Belsen on several occasions and I also researched the records for the area.
“I believe the people who suggest moving the memorial is MAKING UP A YARN about this; they try many dirty trick ways,”
Also your own words and I suggest you take your own advice and kick yourself out of the conversation.
If you are so sure there is a cemetery for Brits at Belsen then please explain, (1) Where the hillside is because Belsen is in the middle of a very large forest on a very flat plainland (the reason it was chosen by the german Army as a training area)and (2) Give us the location on Google earth where this cemetery can be seen because I have looked and see no such place anywhere near.
Reply to peoples posts, as is your right, but do so with facts, not lies to enhance your arguement.
Your lies are disrespectful to those service personnel who died and who`s name you use to prove your point. SHAME ON YOU.
Report abuse
Islander
Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I would not wish to prevent you expressing it. However, wishing “sickness and poverty” to those who do not share your opinion does not appear to match the ideals of what those brave servicemen and women fought for, i.e. the freedom to think and live in a free country without fear of reprisals. Also, I am well aware of their suffering without having to look it up on the net.
I am not strongly for or against the moving of the memorial, I just don’t understand your somewhat vitriolic comments to those who disgree with you.
Report abuse
Islander – I think you have misinterpreted the intentions here (which as Andy says to all intents and purposes are noble) and your post is rather spiteful.
Still, I agree with you this is a totally pointless exercise. The memorial has worked fine where it is for donkeys years so why change it now?
Moving it will cost a fortune, potentially damage it and probably upset older folk like your good self. It just seems like a loser all round.
As Ray suggests, there must be other solutions – if any solutions are actually necessary.
Report abuse
nocon
I was stationed at Soltau.
Report abuse
That is miles away from Belsen Camp and Hohne Camp is only one and a half kilometers down the road. You reply but with no answers to my two questions. Where`s this hillside graveyard and what is the Google Earth map reference?
One other question, how many times did you go to Belsen Camp?
You should know that the whole of the area around Soltau, Bergen and Belsen is flat plainland. It was chosen as a Major training area by the German army for tanks and artilary before and during the war and was taken over by the British after the war for exactly the same reason.
You made the comment so can you back up your statement? If not, an apology to Andy would be in order. You can`t just lie to make your point, there`s always someone who knows that you are telling porkies.
By the way, I was at Belsen two years ago and they`ve built a huge archive facility for research and teach about the Jewish population killed during the war next to the entrance car park. Perhaps you should revisit the site, maybe you could come away better educated about it all.
Report abuse
I think moving it is a good sensible idea and can’t think who might be upset by the proposal. Moving the memorial to the sunken garden will allow far more people to view it in a leisurely manner rather than risk life and limb crossing the road to see it as currently. If moving it will cost a fortune then why not use prison labour? Or is that against their human rights? We pay enough to keep wrong-doers in Les Nicolles Hotel so let them earn their keep for once.
Report abuse
nocon.
I was stationed at Soltau.
Belsen was at a place called Bergen-Belsen, the cemetery was perhaps a temporary place, because I know many people asked for their loved ones to be brought home.
‘The small hill I mentioned was perhaps man made, I know that the Union flag flew at the summit. and the graves all were marked with white crosses.
I was asked on one occasion to take a photo of a grave which I did and sent it to a lady in England.
You can call me a liar if you wish, which in my opinion is the failing with ignorant people.
I’m sure if one bothered to check, then you’ll find there was a small cemetery there.
If it wasn’t just outside the small lane , or road that led into Belsen, then it was nearby. the year was 1946.
If I lie then I apologise to you, but I am sure of my facts and so I ask you to check it out, then perhaps (but I doubt it) i will get an apology for if nothing else, the calling of me as a liar.
One other thing I must mention: after a while the roads in and around the camp of Belsen became a Motor track where mostly Motor bikes were the chief attraction, I rode a Norton 350 single.
Anyway check with war office.
Report abuse
It won’t be moved into the sunken garden as they have other plans for that. It should be left where it is where it was placed years ago. The reasons for moving it are a bit weak to say the least especially when you think how many ceremonies take place there which don’t cause a lot of disruption to traffic.
It is another sad reflection on what is happening in Guernsey and lack of representation we really have.
Report abuse
I don`t agree with the idea of moving the memorial. If the slope at the top of Smith St. is such a problem, why don`t they use some of the stuff which is bound to be left over from the runway project to raise it!
Report abuse
Oh please,leave this memorial where it is, what is going to be gained by moving it back about 20feet and think of the cost. If like someone on here says you could have the memorial service in the sunken gardens, you would be facing the back of the memorial.
All this for the sake of a couple of hours a year, I know it is not in the ideal place for a service,but lets get our priorities right on spending.
Report abuse
Valeite – and others – I totally agree with you. Just let things stay as they are – the memorial is “bothering” no one where it is, and whilst nothing could ever take away the memory of those people who gave up their lives for us if the memorial WAS moved – what is the point? Just leave things as they are. Talk about changing things just for the sake of it. And as for the totally pointless argument about Belsen between Islander and Nocon – grow up. Who saw what/who did what – for goodness sake, remember there are still people living who either had relatives there, or who have close association with people who had family there.
Report abuse
Andy!
I Don’t wish to have an argument , or even a discussion with you about anything at all.
However I do find it strange when you and others should pick out my words about not wishing *them* good health or wealth.
Now isn’t there a national sung that says*
W”Here’s a health unto his majesty
And he that will not pledge his health I WISH him Neither WIT NOR WEALTH…and so on.
I suppose that’s alright… Just a thought about right and wrong!
Report abuse
Islander
I agree that this is not the place for us to have a long debate over this but I must reply.
I fail to see the relevance of the song lyrics you quote.
You were the one who was extolling the virtues of “living in harmony” thanks to the sacrifices made by our brave servicemen and women. However, you ended your post wishing “sickness and poverty” to anyone who disagrees with you. I merely questioned the obvious inconsistency in what you said.
Report abuse
I don’t see why it needs to be moved.
However, I walked past it the other day and IF it did have to be moved there is a much simpler solution – keep it in its current location but rotate it 180 degrees. It’s front will then be facing flat ground and anyone attending a ceremony there would have a dramatic view over Smith Street and across to Herm.
But as I say, I don’t see why anything needs to be changed.
Report abuse
Andy,
Like most, you have got it all wrong (so chastise me on that as well, it seems as if all I write doesn’t suit any of you,
OK but at least try to understand the meaning,
I mentioned a tune as sung in times past, only to point out that many believe that’s OK if it concerns royalty (I’m not a royalist)
but it’s alright to sing those words, yet because I uttered almost identical words against those constables who wish to disturb a monument to our fallen heroes… then I’m a no good so and so.
I stand by what I write,
What’s good for the gander is good for the geese,
Report abuse
Anyway as you all seem to think I lie about all this Belsen business… then if you have a few moments just google Belsen 1946,
Then can you decide whether I lied or not.
How ever I did get one reply, which to me explained partly in what I stated.
I think nocon has a different time in mind…
But before one insults another without just cause shows that the brain wasn’t engaged before the mouth was opened,
So just check that time I mentioned
Belsen 1946
Report abuse
I’m still waiting to hear a decent defence for wishing sickness on someone.
“may sickness and poverty lurk on their doorsteps”
This, on people who propose moving a memorial. NOT destroying or trying to move it out of the way and hide it somewhere obscure, but merely suggesting it may be better placed a few yards from where it is now.
My personal opinion, I think it should stay for now.
To those who have raised the question though and dared to discuss such a matter, I wish them good health.
Report abuse
Well Captain?…
You’ll no doubt not that I never put the rest of that ‘Royal song*
OR YET A ROPE TO HANG HIMSELF*
But thoughts do arise!
Report abuse
Of course many will have noticed that extra road where the old Prison stood.
Those devious minds had it all planned, the area in and around the Memorial.
To say it isn’t good for the people to stand there is a load of old Rubbish.
No! they have other plans for the area, and sunken Gardens will become a thing of the past- as indeed quite a large area as of present.
It will not be for the benefit of the people, but for those who think that not even their breath smells ….
Report abuse