Failings at Education ‘were known in 2003’
Tuesday 27th December 2011, 2:30PM GMT.
EIGHT years before two secondary schools achieved poor GCSE results, Education was told that the service was failing the island’s young people.
Three members of the department’s four-strong senior management team – the fourth was the director – made the statement to Martin Ozanne and Jean Pritchard, the president and vice-president of the then Education Council.
The department’s deputy director, assistant director and finance director said in 2003: ‘We are embarrassed by the state of the service and it cannot continue as it is.
‘The service is not developing and hence pupils are being denied the best education service that is possible.’
The deputy director and one of the assistant directors subsequently placed a formal complaint against director of education Derek Neale (pictured) and later left the department.
Thursday 23 February
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Well done to the Press and reporter Jess Stevenson for shedding a little more light on the pitch darkness that is this current discredited States of Deliberation
The written report is littered with phrases such as ‘x is unable to comment’, ‘y would be making no further comment on the issue’,'a confidential report was seriously flawed and unbalanced’,'no mechanism for appeal’,'a confidential hearing took place’,'Scrutiny were warned off further investigation’
This whole sorry saga STINKS,STINKS,STINKS
It was already starting to smell in 2003 and any person now aged 16 to 23 who attended a secondary school in Guernsey will have good reason to believe that they have been cheated out of good career prospects for the rest of their life because of infighting by those who were supposed to be in charge of their futures
Not only infighting by those directly involved but there now appears to be a certain amount of back covering by those even higher up the food chain in the Civil Service
How handy it is for Mike Brown,head of the Civil Service,to be able to hide behind the usual mantra of not discussing individual cases,when this latest of a long list of excruciatingly slow steps towards revealing the truth behind this debacle reveals that his own handling of the developing situation left a lot to be desired
Let us hope that the Mulkerrin report paid for by the taxpayers is not too embarrassing to people who are still alive that it too is kept under wraps,otherwise what’s to stop this tragedy continuing for another eight years?
Anyone who wants the benefit of my vote in 2012 had better write in blood that he/she is a supporter of Open Government
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How on earth did Mr. Neale justify his failure to fall on his sword (resign) in the light of the information now available?
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Why was he (Neale) not Sacked Years ago?
Failed in his Job!
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Oh Carol,
I suppose your response will be, “But I wasn`t in charge then”,(or were you?) but please tell us your excuse as to why you have done nothing to rectify the situation since?
This latest revelation must have been passed on to you when you took your post as it was made a formal protest.
I seriously feel a retirement coming on.
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I would never trust or employ a man with a beard !
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Well directors – it is continuing to be a complete embarrassment. How about instead of making statements you actually do something about it? As a teacher in one of these schools I too am embarrassed to be there in their present state. Change in an education system can only truly happen from the top…
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Just how much was paid to the whistleblowers?
Were the departing staff civil servants?
Were any compensation paid from Teachers Pension Fund?
If yes, what was the legal basis for these payments?
What do Ozanne and Pritchard have to say about their failiure to act on this information?
The sad thing is those who knew the problems went or were pushed, and the man responsible for the service remains.
Something very wrong needs putting right.
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More parents on PTA’s…more PTA’s to be involved with school politics. Parents need to take more of an active interest!
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Ray,
here’s the thing – how do you persuade all the civil servants currently employed to do away with their confidentiality rights within their contracts of employment? How would you go about recruiting new staff without confidentiality rights? Mike Brown’s position, however unsatisfactory, is a simple fact of law. If you expect this to be different you ought to be prepared to be lied to by anyone who wins your vote.
Within any organisation I have worked in, and there are a few, I have noticed there is a lot of “infighting” up and down the ladder but more so at the top. If you feel the civil service should be immune from this fact of human nature dare I suggest you are a tad idealistic?
So here we have some tittle tattle about a complaint which was made 8 years ago which may or may not be a valid one. Whatever the ins and outs of it the complaint was evidently not upheld. Good story though GP clearly from good sources. Another handful of witches to hunt down – for what purpose?
Whatever we are expecting from the Mulkerrin report I will be very surprised if details are published pertaining to any individuals employed by the States of Guernsey, their performance or their relationships.
Your comment about the 16 to 23 year olds is very unfair and although it is clearly a generalisation it demeans the efforts and achievements of the young people you refer to. Many many people have accomplished a great deal under Guernsey’s education system and lets not lose sight of that and of the hard work and efforts of teachers and civil servants which enabled the success stories to happen.
Yes there are shortcomings in Guernsey’s government but there always have been and always will be. What is in front of us are clear problems to be addressed, newly set benchmarks of expectation and an academic genius analysing the state of affairs and reporting on how to make things better. Derek Neale has stepped down from his controversial role. As far as unsatisfactory situations go this one is being addressed thoroughly.
It’s imperative that Mulkerrin’s recommendations are implemented and it would be handy if he could stick around to ensure this occurs through the transition to new education director and the forthcoming election. Please lets not get bogged down with the past but instead focus on the present and future to ensure everyone concerned is motivated to take proactive measures for the benefit of the school children and teachers who most need the positive energy and resources right now and going forward as a recipe for success.
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Spartacus
I suspect more will empathise with the views of Ray than with yours.
You sound more like an official apologist for the Education Department with every additional post.
How on earth can you say that the Neale situation is been “being addressed thoroughly” when Education covered up the ever increasing cracks and concerns.
If it were not for this forum and the Press we would still be in the dark.
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Stephen John get real.
We all empathise with Ray – facts of life are often frustrating.
How could they cover up something which they are legally obliged to keep confidential?
We ARE still in the dark.
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Spartacus
Where does it say that “they are legally obliged to keep confidential” a formal complaint against a senior civil servant.
Its a formal public complaint not a little confidential chat with Martn and Jean.
Facts please.
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Spartacus is back. From his Christmas Break?
Part of the “Old Establishment Club”.
Never mind how bad things are, do not Rock the Boat!
Put your Head in the Sand, etc…
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Reading with interest all of the Education Issues.
I worked for the Education department a while back and remember that they had an “unofficial” review from Ofsted. They reason why I say unofficial is because I asked if i would have sight of the findings and the reply from the inspector was they have no jurisdiction in Guernsey, so it is just an internal review.
I wonder what the UK schools inspectorate did find out? I suspect if it was positive it would have been all over the Gsy Press!
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By all means “rock the boat, don’t tip the boat over” – there are children on board.
I don’t give a monkey’s about Derek Neale’s wind down and retirement plans or which politicians failed to act on which backstabbing incident back in 2003. Or whether the senior civil servant instigated (or not) robust disciplinary or capability procedures in 2003, 2008 or 2011 against the director of education or the schools improvement officer or the HR filing lady – Its private! How is that difficult to understand?
In this financially pressed day and age I have no desire to see more funds tipped down the drain to pursue a weak case against a man who is clearly not stupid and who knows his (£30,000 worth of) legal rights. Has he committed a crime? No. Has anyone proved he was incompetent? No. Does this matter to the future of education – Not at all – He has left the post! – MOVE ON.
All that really concerns me is that all our children who are at school now and in future, especially the High schools, get a world class education provided by a motivated and competent team of individuals as funded by us taxpayers. No-one seems focused on making this happen.
What is important now is that if Mulkerrin recommends widespread reform of our education system we must make sure it is done. Whatever it costs whatever it takes lets go for it and aim high. This investment in the future workers of Guernsey who are likely to stay in Guernsey is surely more important than improving the airport or fixing the cranes? We must invest in them and it needs to happen immediately. Where is the funding? Where are the teachers? LMDC seems to be on its knees.
If we are not careful here the danger is that the Mulkerrin report will be looked at by the outgoing policy council, shelved due to lack of funds or change of government (which always fixes things yes?) and forgotten about until the next front page news headlines about exam results in years to come.
If we, the public, do not stay focused on improvements for our high schools NOW we will be having this petty argument about historic internal complaints and confidentiality for years to come and it won’t matter who the individuals concerned are or where the buck stops the problems would be identical.
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Phew!That’s a relief.I was expecting a rather awkward moment or two when my young nephew visits on New Years Day
He’s just been turned down at his third job interview because he only managed to gain three GCSE passes
If he asks me if it’s true that he has been let down by his school all I need to say is “It’s private”
Happy New Year
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Ray
Clearly the school is to blame for ruining his life. He seems destined for a life on benefits.
Happy New Year
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Ouch, that’s a bit harsh considering you probably don’t know the lad in question.Try focussing on the forum not having a pop at individuals.
If its any consolation to the young chap in question, I only have 3 GCE’s (shows my age)but have had a very rewarding working life. Sadly though these days, certificates seem to mean more than people… sadly.
Lastly, without an airport and a working dock, folks won’t be able to get off the island, let alone return to work here… think on!
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Apologies for the sarcasm in my previous post. May I suggest C of FE as a starting point. He is young and his opportunities are limitless as long as he doesn’t share his uncle’s negative attitude of helplessness and blame.
Good for you CSR, you can count yourself among some of the most prolific entrepreneurs and billionaires on the planet who have few formal academic qualifications. Thanks for bringing some perspective to this debate.
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Nothing wrong with uncle Ray’s attitude generally
Negativity only tends to rear its ugly head after ploughing through weeks of apologist claptrap from someone whose argument is getting weaker by the day. It’s almost as if that person’s own job prospects are on the line
They say ‘there is always one’ but I suppose without that ‘one’there would have been no debate and we could all have sat quietly awaiting a (hopefully) no holds barred report
Happy New Year
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Uncle Ray You are the funniest poster on this site as well as one with the most common sense usually. Please don’t take my debate personally, as we all agree it is a worthy cause. Happy New Year.
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OK Spartacus
Thanks for the festive good wishes
I’ve set up a pint for you at the Salerie Inn
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Cheers uncle Ray, al fresco – perfect!
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Spartacus
Your plea to stay focused on the future of Guernsey’s kids is well made and deserves to be heeded.
BUT the Press and this Forum will continue to dig into the background to the Derek Neale affair, and rightly so in my view.
That’s because what is being exposed has repercussions for the accountability of ALL of the Chief Officers.
Ministers come and go, but Chief Officers remain in post for years and in that time have a much greater influence on the workings of the island.
If they were Chief Execs of businesses they would be hired and fired by their Boards, depending on the company’s fortunes. Bringing in a new Chief Exec is certainly one of the traditional ways to try to reorient or revive a failing business.
What we are seeing from the Neale saga is that the civil service does not have the right mechanisms in place to be able to manage an underperforming Chief Officer out of his post.
Question: can anyone remember a Chief Officer being fired?
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Excellent post. What is the right mechanism in your opinion?
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It seems that almost everywhere I go I am being asked about this matter… or should I say about these matters?
With Mr Mulkerrin’s report expected shortly, I have been most circumspect in my comments to date. However, I share the view of those who identify 2 key areas of concern.
1. Reports of turmoil at the top almost inevitably lead to consternation and confusion at the sharp end of the service.
2. Rumours of a management support package for one of our secondary schools abound but have yet to be confirmed or explained in detail by the Education Dep’t.
Let’s hope that the Policy Council publish Mr Mulkerrin’s findings in full so that our Education service can benefit from a more informed consideration of the difficulties which currently beset it.
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Sean McManus
You refer to the difficulties which beset our education service and state that rumours of turmoil at the top almost inevitably lead to consternation and confusion at the sharp end of the service however this statement does not match with the fact that all but 2 of the secondary schools on this island have reportedly had satisfactory GCSE results.
In your opinion is it merely coincidence that those 2 schools whose results have not been satisfactory are the two schools which were flooded by additional pupils following the closure of St Peter Port school?
Or are you suggesting that the turmoil at the top has impacted the colleges and Grammar and Beaucamp also and therefore when should we expect those schools to inevitably reflect the consternation and confusion? If Grammar ever gets just a 12% result I will eat my hat.
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Spartacus
Fortunately, your hat is probably safe.
I can confirm that former colleagues across the service(primary, secondary.. Grammar School and Blanchelande included… special and CFE) have spoken to me about both areas of concern. In my view this is hardly surprising as it reflects the altruism and professionalism of most teachers.
The Ed. Dep’t failed to include the St Peter Port School results in the package released following questions from Deputy Stephens. Many believe that including the SPP results (until the school closed) would have added to public understanding of the subsequent pattern.
As you infer, Spartacus, the relocation of pupils favoured Beaucamps and impacted most significantly upon LMDC. I seem to recall that the initial proposal had involved a three way split. Teacher reps sought throughout the process to keep the Dep’t informed of the consequences of the relocation exercise and considerable concerns had long been expressed about the provision of appropriate courses to deal with the raising of the leaving age to 16.
It remains my understanding that LMDC was due to be inspected last Spring but that it was postponed until Spring Term 2012. I have yet to learn the reason for the postponement.
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Just a cotton pickin’ minute.Are we now saying these diabolical results were a one off caused by the relocation of the St Peter Port School pupils?
There was silly old me believing the earlier reports that the results had been steadily falling for years but were being hidden from the public
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Thank you Sean McManus for these insights it is interesting that you suggest the St Peter Port school results were also low prior to closure and is it a coincidence that the head teacher of St PP moved to LMDC?
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Ray
Spot on – in fact Ladies College results have fallen to an all time low of 100% this year. Shocking.
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Spartacus,
I agree with your conclusions (post 14) and I think there is a real danger that the Mulkerrin report will come out, there will be a lot of noise for a few weeks and things will then carry on as normal. I have already heard some comments from senior Ed Dept staff along the lines of “what does Mulkerrin know about running an Education Department?” and I am certain that attempts will be made to discredit him and his report. (This is basically what happened with G Robinson)
For this reason it is essential to get to the bottom of what has gone on in the Education Department over the last few years, if only to see what lessons should be learned and to prevent it all from happening again. Stephen John’s questions (post 7) are very valid. Thanks to the Guernsey Press for keeping these matters on the agenda.
With regard to the terms of the Chief Officers’ employment, it seems that they are exempt from the disciplinary codes that apply to everyone else. Surely this is wrong?
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grumpy teacher
If there are indeed such mutterings afoot amongst the senior Ed Dept staff perhaps a few more sideways ‘promotions’ might be in order?
These moves would not be punishments of course,merely aids to career advancement
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Mulkerrin knows a lot about running schools evidently and that involves getting the best out of the education system. I don’t doubt his credibility and firmly believe the policy council chose well in him as advisor. Credit where it is due. It is essential that the report must be published.
I disagree that the Robinson review was thwarted. I believe the reason he has now gone from that post is due to the Robinson review and what has been done behind the scenes since then.
A rescue package for LMDC? Best news I have heard all year. This is now urgent and imperative in my opinion. I hope this will help to restore morale which has apparently been crushed by the political ruthlessness of the rumours and reporting of this saga.
Every sector has spoken out to express what the expectation is for this affluent island and the reputation of our schools. This is a democratic society therefore we have a responsibility to make sure this expectation is now realised.
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Spartacus. Are you Peter Mandelson? I suggest you get a job as a spin doctor!
As any spin doctor you espouse how senior managers do not make errors like their minions, but instead their cock-ups provide valuable learning opportunities for the organisation to develop and move forward in a positive fashion.
Sorry Spartucus, but your mantra was found out years ago and you need to change the record. It’s stuck if you didn’t already know.
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It’s really very simple. Hold a disciplinary hearing and then pay him off with six months pay. That is all you have to do by law. I cannot believe a tribunal will find in his favour. The whole pay scale needs to be addressed. Performance related pay would be good, save us a fortune.
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I agree, LMDC should be rescued. I went to that school between 1974 & 1989. I had a top notch education with very good teachers, I cannot believe standards have slipped so far. This was the best equipped school at that time and talent was nurtured, i.e. Matt Le Tissier. Then again we had respect for the teachers in that day and age. I think the issue of punishment has a lot to do with the loss of respect you now find, if the pupils show no respect, what would give the teachers the motivation to teach them. Yes Derek Neale should resign, he has made obvious failings in his duties but I think the Minister & the Chief Officer should resign or be sacked. If they’re going to be paid massive salaries they should earn them, if they fail as they have, they should leave or be sacked.
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Frankie
what you have failed to take into consideration is that in your day leaving LMDC with less than a handful of CSEs (not GCSEs or GCEs) was perfectly acceptable. Also bear in mind a CSE A grade was equivalent to a GCE grade C. Out of interest would your qualifications meet today’s benchmark criteria? In other words did you get at least 5 A grade CSE’s including Maths and English?
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No Spartacus I didn’t. Although I went on to further education and have gained many diplomas in my chosen profession and am considered to be at the top of my game. The EXCELLENT education I gained at LMDC was the foundation of a career which i still enjoy as much as when I started. One thing I was taught was common sense which sadly seems to be missing in many of the young today, which is hardly surprising as there doesn’t seem to be any at the Education upper levels. I have enormous respect for teachers though, I wouldn’t like their job in this day and age when discipline has fallen by the wayside. I suspect you are somehow linked to the education system as you seem to support them avidly.
Step out of the box an look at this from another angle, there are big failings in the education department upper tiers and it is just not good enough. They are failing our children who will one day have to look after our beautiful island. This infatuation by employers with high grades make them miss out on some of the others who whilst they leave school with poor grades have the most needed tool they need, common sense which I have found missing in some of the so called ‘boffins’. I have had to train some star pupils before and they just had nothing upstairs. Just because you can do it on paper doesn’t mean you can do it in the workplace.
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Frankie
I agree with almost all you have to say and many pupils of LMDC who are currently there or have just left have said exactly the same as you.
So what has changed?
The secondary schools have never had high expectations academically but they have always had highly motivated and enthusiastic staff and happy well rounded pupils who have been taught common sense.
You say there are big failings in the education upper tiers and imply this is firstly fact and secondly that such speculation is something new. Children are being failed no more than you were back in the eighties as you have confirmed. The only fundamental change is academic expectation.
I’m not a supporter of our education system at all – you couldn’t be more wrong I’m against 11+, I’m against the schools having different standards of uniforms, I’m against a large centralised education department and I’m definitely against the unfair distribution of funding.
The argument I make is that blaming any perceived problems on individuals is pointless because it is the system which is flawed. Changing the political characters will make no difference if they are still obliged to work within the same system. All the mud slinging does is drive off competent people and make new candidates reluctant.
In the past three months the reporting has been hideously insensitive to the pupils of LMDC. How do you think they feel? How would you like it if you were there now? Your results may have been better due to this saga but would you have had the confidence instilled in you that allowed you to go on and achieve all that you have?
12% might just be a blip caused by the closing of St PP school. Out of this blip we now have a major problem as there is a staffing crisis at LMDC and low morale amongst pupils who have been tarred by the stigma of “the worst school in Guernsey”. The only good thing is that the community has a hell of a lot to make up for to LMDC.
The alarmist reporting which has incited public outcry; Jane Stephens’ behaviour; the personal attacks at Derek Neale, Carol Steere and now Mike Brown – its all political and at whose expense? – The pupils of LMDC. It disgusts me.
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Spartacus
The media criticism may well disgust you, but unfortunately it’s the only way that change is going to come about as nobody has had the balls to fire Derek Neale and Carol Steere is desparate to cling on to her ministerial role.
When such individuals are able to hold onto their jobs when the evidence of their shortcomings is so compelling, thank goodness that the Press has got so involved.
Do you honestly believe that Neale’s recent role change would have happened otherwise? Not a chance.
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Frankie
£60k for 6 months pay would be one of the best investments this island could make to get rid of him altogether. Why has everyone been so scared of the risk of him claiming unfair dismissal? Just write the cheque, eradicate the problem and move on.
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GM
Your solution seems sensible.
It is clear Neale sees no role for himself as Director. Why? Is it acceptance of his own failings? If so. why keep him in the department – just do what GM suggests, and pay him his 6 months notice to clear out.
I wonder what will happen if the new Director insist he does not want Neale in his department.
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Good question, SJ.
It’s pretty common practice whenever new blood comes in that the old guard gets cleared out. Nothing worse for a new kingpin than having your predecessor hanging around like a bad smell.
I hope the new incumbent will have full authority to make the decision as to the suitability of Mr Neale for his “new” role. Of course he may decide his position is fine, a decision I will respect if s/he has been allowed to make that decision freely and objectively.
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I like your thinking, but seeing as though the job has only been advertised within the Civil Service, another croney is sure to be appointed who’ll look after his good pal Derek. You scratch my back and all that…
I’ve read the job description – having a background in teaching isn’t even listed as ‘desirable’ let alone ‘essential!’
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Maybe because it’s not a teaching job? Derek Neale was a former offsted inspector.
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Mr Bean
Interesting that the Press has reported more details on this today. It would appear the decision not to appoint a teaching professional was deliberate and strategic. It does seem they have someone already lined up which would make sense as this seems to be what the Robinson review of 2008 recommended in terms of succession planning.
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GM
Exactly!
They could just sack him, if it goes to tribunal he can only be awarded 6 months pay maximum anyway.
He can not claim for his legal representation as well, so this will have to be paid out of his award, which if there is any justice he won’t get. This will leave him with a bill to pay out of the money he has made. I would call this poetic justice and should save the tax payer a lot of money. Maybe they should put this to a vote and let the voters decide.
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Spartacus
You ask if my call for the release of the St Peter Port School exam results was prompted by a belief that they “…were low prior to closure”.
The answer is that I have no idea… I’ve never seen them.
My key concern is to ensure an informed consideration leading to an improved Education service.
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Sean McManus
I see you are in a difficult position because you do not wish to be misquoted or put forward your own views although you are eager to impart information gleaned from other sources such as “Many believe that including the SPP results (until the school closed) would have added to public understanding of the subsequent pattern”. I took that as an implication that the results “were low prior to closure” but did not assume you believed it. However I very much doubt that you have no idea.
My key concern matches yours entirely.
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GM
I have seen no compelling evidence (yet) about individual performance just headlines describing “school failure” which have successfully boosted the sales of newspapers and got everyone angry and lots of children upset. Which expert decreed the “school failure”? Even the CM quoted this newspaper headline parrot fashion then hastily backtracked when he realised he was in no position to judge. How insensitive towards all those pupils who are obliged by law to go to this alleged “failed” school day in day out. If it is a failed school it should have been closed but that would’ve caused even worse problems as we all know. There is no justification for these headlines.
As I understand it there is only one person in Guernsey who has the decision making authority to fire Derek Neale. That decision is no longer relevant as the role Neale has chosen seems to be one where his efforts have not encountered criticism. Firing him now will do more harm than good and Beaucamp and LMDC would not then benefit from his skills and experience for the new schools. But yet again some posters here don’t seem to care about that.
As for Carol Steere, she said she would resign (and go without debate) if the review proves she was at fault and I’m sure the public will hold her to that so nothing to fear – if there is no blame found the public should back her.
Hopefully Mulkerrin will provide some sort of blueprint for academic success. Even if this is instigated and achieved it will take years longer for the stigma to wear off and the confidence of the pupils to be restored. If you believe a new director of education and a new minister will easily resolve this debacle I fear you are mistaken.
Bring on the rescue package without delay.
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Spartacus
I have not at any point referred to “school failure”. I have referred to failures and shortcomings of the Education Minister and Director of Education.
Surely you are not going to attempt to claim that I’m wrong and that all is hunky dory at Education?
As for whether Neale’s neat little sidestep should be questioned, it seems that lots of people want to know why the job was not advertised, what selection process took place, whether he was the best man for the job, what the remuneration package is and why Education Board members seemingly knew nothing about it.
It sure isn’t “hunky dory”at all -far from it.
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GM
Happy New Year
I have seen no compelling evidence about individual performance. Please tell me where you have seen this.
I can’t imagine everything is hunky dory at education any more than I believe that of any states department. However the fact is other schools have performed well and the overall figures are good.
I believe the policy council statement about Neale’s change of role answered your questions adequately. He’s probably the best person for the job as he was doing it anyway and seems to have built up a good track record for years. I see this as a win win but you don’t seem to understand my perspective.
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Spartacus
Happy New Year but for heaven’s sake remove your rose-tinted glasses.
How much more evidence do you need that the process has overseen a dramatic drop in standards, decaying buildings and a total loss of confidence from the vast majority of the island’s teachers. Are you talking about the same Derek Neale ? It doesn’t seem like it.
“Other schools have performed well”. Really? Two out of the three secondary schools produce appalling results and you think that’s acceptable?
The Policy Council statement about Neale’s change of role produced far more new questions than it answered. It was a fudge to avoid sacking him. Nothing other than pure spin but you have been well and rely fooled by it.
I come nowhere near close to seeing your perspective. I think it’s been an abject failure, letting down a whole generation of the island’s children, and you seem to think that’s acceptable.
Excuse me for saying it but I think you must be off your trolley or perhaps too close to Derek Neale to be able to draw such conclusions.
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GM
Let us hope someone in the Policy Council has the courage to demand answers to your questions. They are well put and appropriate.
Spartacus in another of his throw away remarks says “As I understand it there is only one person in Guernsey who has the decision making authority to fire Derek Neale”
Typically Spartacus fails to tell us who that person is.
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Stephen John
“Spartacus fails to tell us”
Typically Stephen John expects everyone else to spoon feed him.
Please correct me if my comment is wrong and feel free to elaborate if you have additional information but please don’t tell me off for failing to tell you stuff. Thanks.
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I come to this debate late because I’ve been away for a few weeks but maybe I am able to see a different perspective.
Carol Steere has been ‘stitched up’ by the Chief Minister over the whole business of Mr. Neale’s resignation letter from his position of Chief Officer of Education.
We in Guernsey have the strangest system in the world for looking after our educational needs and governance. Mr. Neale reports to the Policy Council officers and to Mr. Brown, so the Board of Education cannot tell him what to do or manage him in any way, other than to make arbitrary decisions such as the school uniform debacle. No wonder it is all such a mess.
Our HR people are always the last with their recruitment ads so any decent teachers to be recruited from the UK have already got their jobs. We get the bottom of the pile, which is why some teachers are simply not up to the job. Some of the teaching standards are superb but some are not and nobody wants to deal with the problem for fear of industrial tribunals.
The Head Teachers are all accountable to nobody other than the Chief Officer. There are no governors or supervisors like the UK and US system and the PTA just raises money for stuff around the school used for extra-curricular activities.
There is something wrong witht he system and something wrong with the people who run it who just want to protect their own positions.
The people and the electorate can only take a certain amount of abuse before they lose confidence in their leaders (yes, that is their function, to lead us), and that confidence is fast running out here in the Vale. Someone needs to take action, and now.
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Fred
Happy New year
Totally agree that the recruitment process is unacceptable. Our vacancies should be advertised without delay so that we do not miss the best candidates. Not only that but the housing licence system could be deemed a deterrent.
The capability measures in place for poor performance must be instigated and there should be consequences on individuals (headteachers?) who fail to do so. I completely agree that the risk of tribunals must be a scary prospect after all look what happened to Derek Neale when he dismissed Jane Stephens. There is no protection for the confidentiality for the individuals charged with instigating these measures therefore the system is flawed.
There is no PTA for LMDC. Nor adequate parent evenings. In my opinion the school does not do enough to engage the parents but instead claims the parents are not interested. I know the parents are interested and want more involvement. The parents of High school students need more interaction than other schools not less.
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Spartacus,
If the parents of LMDC really want a PTA why don’t they set one up? The NCPTA website will tell them what to do. If there is genuinely the enthusiasm and motivation you describe it’s not that difficult and I am sure the whole community would appreciate it. There are also plenty of PTAs in Guernsey who I am sure would be happy to advise and support.
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You make it sound like organising a tea party!
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If it was that difficult to set up a PTA how come all the primary schools, the colleges and the Grammar School have them?
Come on LMDC parents – where are you??
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Stephen
I hope you are right but I’m not holding my breath.
Is Spartacus a he or a she ?
You would like to think that Carol Steere had that power, otherwise why bother having having political masters at all? Yet I suspect that the person with that power is the unelected and unaccountable Mike Brown.
I’ve said it for years and I will repeat it once more. The general election of States Members is virtually irrelevant because it’s the unelected and unaccountable senior civil servants and not the politicians who run this island. Until the States reclaim those powers, the situation will not change.
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Spartacus
To carry on with post 20, I would imagine that the pupils at LMDC now feel a bit betrayed.
If I was there now I probably would be upset about being in the ‘ worst school in Guernsey ‘
I hope the pupils don’t allow this to undermine their abilities and future job prospects, I would personally have dug in and carried on doing my best.
This is all you can ask of anybody and what employers should also look for.
I would ask for report cards rather than exam results, these show a better picture of the individual, timekeeping, attendance and attitude of the person. I would seriously put any person with ‘ does the best to his ability ‘ at the top of the list. Training would be easier.
The argument that it is the system, not the individuals who are to blame doesn’t carry with me. The very people under the spotlight are the people who could change a flawed system, that is their job, for which they get amply rewarded. They have not delivered and so should go.
Happy new year to you and all
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Frankie
Happy New Year
I agree with all your comments about pupils.
Carol Steere would scrap the 11+ but has no power to do this as the majority would not vote in favour.
Derek Neale’s mistake in my opinion was in underestimating the impact of the closure of St Peter Port school. His line manager has the responsibility of weighing up this failing with the achievements. On balance perhaps he felt Derek Neale was too valuable to the capital program to lose.
Fred seems to have more idea about the internal workings.
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GM
You are lacking in any sense of perspective over this issue. How is it helpful to suggest a whole generation of school children have been let down and are destined for failure? What utter rubbish.
To answer your question – I gather Ladies college result was 100% and Elizabeth College was 98%. Grammar performed well too but I can’t remember the number. Against a benchmark of 35% how can this be anything less than astonishingly good? Are you including these pupils in your “whole generation”?
LMDC’s result reflected the unusual circumstances and the school was badly let down by publishing this out of context. Maybe the results would have been a more balanced picture if all the St Peter Port students had been spread between the Colleges and Grammar. But oh no that would be contrary to our elitist selective system. Therefore one school bears the brunt of the consequences and we have a “school failure crisis” blown out of all proportion.
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Come on now Spartacus, let’s not get hysterical!
I don’t think anyone, even the Press, is suggesting we have a school failure crisis. Nor do I believe the necessary release of statistics has caused the amount of trauma to LMDC as some would suggest.
The cohort of students achieving the poor results has now left the school. The upcoming students (at least those who were interviewed by the media) seem determined to do better, so surely that is a good thing?
The only organisation which is failing is the Education Department. We should thank the Press and Jane Stephens for starting the ball rolling. Otherwise we would not have had the Mulkerrin report or Derek Neale’s resignation and we would have remained in blissful ignorance.
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Spartacus
Colleges and Grammar ‘elitist’ Bit strong there!
I know your feelings on the 11+, and I’m not looking for an argument here but some children are smarter than others. That’s a fact.
These children must be nurtured and educated at a level that suits them. I have had two children, the eldest did not pass to Grammar, he tried his hardest which was all I asked of him. His secondary education was at a level he could handle, he still got a job he enjoyed doing and now works for himself.
My daughter passed the 11+ and attends the Grammar school.
As previously said I attended the LMDC and got a job I love. Whilst I did not pass the 11+ I received an education which suited me.
On seeing the amount of homework my daughter gets I can say I am happy I went to LMDC.
These Children are smarter and more advanced than others and should get the level of education they can handle.
If you did away with the Colleges and Grammar schools these children will be held back. That’s not fair to them.
What is wrong and what should be stopped is parents who pay for their children to go to one of the Colleges. If they can’t pass the 11+ they should not be put under greater strain by going into a class which they will probably struggle with. This would open up more spaces for others.
I have probably opened a can of worms here, it’s my opinion and I’m sorry if this offends but children must have the best education at a level they can handle.
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Frankie
Evidence suggests that a comprehensive system will raise the overall standard rather than hold back the high achievers.
100% of Ladies College pupils achieved the required GCSEs this year which indicates that the fee payers are not under strain as you suggest. Another fact is that many children get private coaching which enables them to pass the 11+. If Guernsey introduced a comprehensive system the Colleges would need to stay as private fee paying schools as there will still be a local demand for this.
IF LMDC are to exceed the 35% GCSE benchmark the relaxed education which you say suited you (but which failed to deliver exam success for you) will be a thing of the past. The pressures will be much higher for LMDC pupils. In order to reach acceptable standards at least 10 hours homework a week is required – if that isn’t worked it is the equivalent of missing 2 school days a week.
These and other measures are what will now happen due to public demand. You have joined those who are saying the system is flawed and those responsible should be sacked and yet you have said the system worked fine for you and your family.
Re your post no 28 you say you would have been upset about being in the worst school in Guernsey. The thing is you don’t know whether it was the worst performing school in your day. Back then they did not publish details. I doubt the figures have changed much overall. What has changed is public perception and expectation.
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Spartacus
I have no idea which school you went to but your exam results would have been poor if you read the questions as thoroughly as you read my post. At no point did I say that the children were “destined for failure”. Those are exclusively your words.
I also referred to the appalling results of two out of the three secondary schools. At no point did I refer to the Colleges or the Grammar School. You have referred to the results of those schools to defend Education, trying in the process to cover up the appalling results at La Mare and St Sampsons High.
You must clearly be from within the camp at Education as you are trying to very unsuccessfully put a positive spin on Education’s performance over recent years.
You may well think that its performance of managing the education system is acceptable but you seem to be in a minority of one. As I have said previously, if you are from within the camp and don’t believe that the performance is unsatisfactory then you are almost as much of the problem as Derek Neale is himself.
You are making a pathetic and totally unsuccessfully attempt to defend the indefensible.
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GM
You said “letting down a whole generation of the island’s children”
which is open to interpretation. So yes you have overlooked the successful schools in your blanket condemnation of the “whole generation”. That the majority of schools were exceptionally successful is fact not spin. I’m not at all happy about this fact because it reflects the division in our culture.
I was a college scholarship student if you must know and achieved double figure GCE O’levels as well as other things. I was taught to read the facts carefully.
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Spartacus
In that case I can only put your current failure to interpret my comments down to those blinkers and rose tinted spectacles you are currently wearing.
Has it occurred to you that the two poorly performing schools were not being well run and required extra focus and attention from Derek Neale and his team which was not forthcoming? That has nothing to do with a division of culture.
It seems to me that you belong to the brigade which would rather scrap the highly successful Grammar School and Colleges so that the underperformance of our secondary schools can be conveniently masked.
I maintain that your attitude is a prime example of why the administration of Education needs to be dismantled and completely rebuilt, preferably without you being anywhere near it. Hopefully the Mulkerrin Report will reach that same conclusion.
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GM
My suspicion is that the two poorly performing schools have always underperformed, that’s the thing. I will be interested to see if historical statistics are released.
Yes I am in the brigade which would support scrapping the 11+. I believe Mulkerrin shares this view however the powers that be don’t want this change at present and I gather the matter will not be reviewed until LMDC is rebuilt.
I have previously stated that I want to know what action was taken to mitigate the effects of closing StPP school. I agree that education has underestimated the consequences of that specific event.
Personally if my home had a broken window I would get the window fixed but your logic would have you dismantle and rebuild the whole house. How stupid. I would also ensure the window repair man replaced the broken window not just any window.
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GM for CM
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Ray you are as comical as ever.
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Don’t be silly now the words “school failure” have appeared in every press article under the education tag for the past 3 months! There has been a tidal wave of negativity falling upon LMDC.
Hopefully you are right that LMDC has not been overly traumatised however if so it begs the question why are 6 teachers now off sick with stress? Will Jane Stephens take responsibility for that situation and claim the end justifies the means?
I’m pleased the Mulkerrin report has been done and that Derek Neale has resigned – time for change (but this was due to have happened anyway) and I share your view that positive things will hopefully follow – my only reservation is at what cost.
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You are spouting nonsense now!!!
You really think Jane Stephens is responsible for 6 teachers at LMDC off with stress??
Don’t blame the oven for the heat in the kitchen…
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Ed
There were no reports of stress before she asked the questions – just saying.
I always thought it was the oven that caused heat in the kitchen – should we blame the fridge? :-)
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Ahhh
Are you saying that these teachers have gone off with stress because people now know that they are not doing a good job?
It is the ovens job to generate heat, how can it be to blame for doing it’s job? By being a kitchen it is hot.
Did JS create the stress or was it always there?
Is my sons bedroom only untidy if I put the light on, is the light to blame for the mess? So no reports of stress = no stress, I don’t see your logic.
Refridgerated devices do push quite a bit of heat out into the kitchen…
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An oven is supposed to generate adequate heat to create a tasty supper not burn down the kitchen.
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The education service in Guernsey has always been far below par, particularly the insistance of using the 11+ system, a so called failure, I recieved my second MA last year, I am so pleased that my kids are in a system that supports them and acheives some of the best standards in the world here in Canada. Heaven help young people in Guernsey schools they dont know what they are missing
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Frankie
The 11+ system is “elitist”. I’m not sure why you think its a bit strong to state that fact.
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The 11+ is elitist only in the eyes of so called namby pamby,must treat everybody equal so that nobody gets in the slightest bit upset,worse than bloody useless social engineers who have somehow gained a foothold in modern society
Should Oxford,Cambridge,Eton,Harrow be closed down,or rather dumbed down to the level of the modern plastic degree universities?
Should the Army and Navy Colleges be shut?
Should ALL candidates in the forthcoming Guernsey elections get in as a reward for merely trying?
I do not feel the slightest twinge of embarrassment that our island colleges and the Grammar School turn in pass rates in the high nineties year after year
For goodness sake let’s not dumb down these excellent schools but by all means let’s do everything possible to encourage our high schools to achieve the best they possibly can … and more importantly let’s get rid of the politicians and the other civil servants (it can’t surely be down to only the one man who has been promoted sideways)who for reasons of self preservation have been spinning dismal results for years
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Will you be writing a thank you note to Derek Neale and gang for your pride in the fact that our island Colleges and Grammar school turn in pass rates in the high nineties year after year? Or are these schools run by a satellite education system in orbit above planet earth?
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Spartacus
What – a thank you to Neale merely for doing the job he was being paid handsomely for? The reality is that the standards at those other schools haven’t dropped, so nobody has taken their eye off the ball there. It’s at the secondary schools where the ball has been dropped in Neals’s watch (although it doesn’t seem that he was actually doing much watching).
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No,my note of thanks would go directly to the politicians of the Mike Torode era who thankfully recognised the advantages of retaining the 11+
I dread to think what state our schools would be in now if they had thrown away the baby with the bathwater
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I agree with you Ray – keep 11+, children at age 10 and 11 are old enough to know and understand the implications of getting or not getting sufficient marks in the tests and knowing what their capabilities are. Of course there are disappointments and likewise, surprises with results. This day and age kids of this age are also generally alot more mature and aware of life and the knowledge that this is what life is all about – not a bad start to their learning curve of life and competition and hard knocks etc etc. Of course children will be coached to pass (probably even more now parents dont want them to go to our secondary schools after the awful results of the last year or two!). I must have spoken to at least 100 parents in the last 2 years about what it is really like for their children at the secondary schools and I can honestly say the majority of them have BIG concerns about three major issues there :- 1) disruptive, unruly and noisy pupils seriously hampering learning in lessons,2)lack of homework and 3) lack of motivational ‘push’ to those pupils most capable of more. I am afraid that I blame the headteachers for this and the fact that there is not serious enough discipline to the many, many disruptive pupils. Its the same old story I guess – but how can it be solved – it has to start with quiet in the classrooms so kids can learn and adequate homework to ensure standards are maintained. There will always be kids that will struggle academically, and no disrespect, but a society NEEDS those people just as much as the clever ones, for labouring type of jobs etc etc – however, there has to be major improvement in what is currently happening.
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I agree with your assessment of the 3 main concerns and feel hopeful that these will be addressed by the new executive head teacher of LMDC, however I suspect these measures will be a huge culture change for the High schools.
Here’s the thing, the overall pass rate for Guernsey was 62.7% for 2011. That’s including the very low rates of LMDC and St S. So if the grades of all schools are raised above the threshold our future labourers will either be scholars or imported.
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Spartacus
No they wont be scholars or imported – the less academically gifted will remain at the bottom, but hopefully they will be better prepared for vocational jobs, studying more practical subjects at age 15/16 which will help them a lot more than at present where they are neglected without hope.
If Les Beaucamps can manage 35% then getting La Mare and St Sampsons up to that level ought to be the very minimum initial target.
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Spartacus.
As I said I’m not going to start an argument on this subject, I don’t consider the Colleges & Grammar elitist so we will have to agree to disagree.
LMDC did not fail to provide exam success for me, I started the exams and was offered a job I had applied for which I had to start ASAP. So I left school before I had sat all exams. I was expected to receive excellent results and upset a number of teachers by leaving, I’m still doing and enjoying that job today. So I think I made the right decision.
If as you answered to post 29 they went towards a comprehensive school set up and left the Colleges as fee paying only would this not create the “elitist” school system you were moaning about and deny some gifted students a place in these establishments. What happens when these Colleges achieve 100% pass rates and the comprehensives still under perform.
If the teachers had more powers to deal with unruly children in the secondary schools who disrupt classes and drag everybody downwards there would be an improvement in results I am sure.
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Frankie
The Colleges would be excluded from the public tax payer funded comprehensive system. That’s the point. There will always be class divisions in society but my view is that this has no place in the heart of our government run education system.
The problem is that if the colleges didn’t stay here then wealthy parents who did not want their children to participate in a classless school system would pack their kids off to boarding school elsewhere – or leave Guernsey as a family and this is maybe one of the problems which concerns the powers that be. It would be for the colleges to decide if it would still be viable to operate their business here without government input.
The colleges would still get high results as you would expect from private funding but I believe research has shown that standards are raised for schools in a comprehensive system. The idea is that the gifted still have their talent nurtured and this raises the aspirations of their fellow pupils. I gather this works well in places like Finland which has consistently topped the PISA global ratings for the best results. Also in Canada as Simon has described in post 32.
My objection is to the social inequality of the way public resources are channelled. If all the focus is on the academic pupils then those who are not academic but perhaps have other talents are neglected. That is elitism in my opinion. Every child deserves opportunities.
Also, I believe research has indicated that a large proportion of the academic elite do not return to Guernsey following university however the majority of High school students stay in Guernsey. Therefore the current system seems to support nurturing and exporting talent rather than building up a well balanced and well educated local work force.
The 11+ debate is not an issue where there is a right or wrong answer. Opinion is split in Guernsey, in the UK and elsewhere. I don’t claim to have the right answer, just an opinion. However it does seem that those countries who are performing best have chosen not to have a selective system.
The positive outcome of this furore is that expectation of the High schools has been raised. This will create turmoil initially because the confidence of those pupils needs to rise to meet this. If this can be achieved then perhaps Guernsey will get the best of both worlds.
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Spartacus
How is it elitist? Everyone primary school child in Guernsey has the same opportunity to pass it.
You seem to be interested only in raising the overall avaverage by ensuring that the more clever children get held back. In other words, raise the GCSE averages but lower the A level average, making it far more difficult for Guernsey children to access university. Is that really in Guernsey’s best interests? Why fix what isn’t broken?
The broken bit is the secondary school sector. Spend time and money on getting those schools as good as possible, in terms of school facilities and good, highly motivated teachers.
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Spartacus
As I. said earlier, if it isnt broken, don’t fix it. Your suggestion reeks of envy.
I’m intrigued as to how your model would work. If the Colleges were no longer viable without States’ support, this would throw about 1,000 children back into the States-funded system, immediately requiring two extra 500-pupil High schools. Where would the money come from for that? I know we don’t expect States departments to think about trivial matters such as financing of major capital projects….
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If it isn’t broken why do you feel Neale should be fired? There is no envy but I take it you don’t have a child at LMDC and lack compassion for the present situation, which makes me wonder why you are complaining about the results. Any change to the selective system will not benefit my family but hopefully would benefit Guernsey in the long term.
I gather Mulkerrin feels this change in system would not be feasible until LMDC is rebuilt and the building would be scaled accordingly. The funding for this was approved years ago and there would be additional savings if the subsidy of the college fee payers was removed.
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Spartacus
Are you deliberately being dim? The Colleges and Grammar aren’t broken, yet you want to jeopardise them. But the secondary schools on the other hand..
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GM
First you say “Education needs to be dismantled and completely rebuilt” then you say “if its not broken don’t fix it” – make up your mind man!
You just don’t get it do you – there is compelling global evidence towards non selective education systems but you simply do not have the manners or intellect to respect that point of view.
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Spartacus
Would you like me to use larger letters and words with just one syllable so that there is no misunderstanding about what I said and meant?
When I said “Education” needs to be dismantled and completely rebuilt”, I was very clearly referring to the Education department and the administration of education on the island. You know, morale amongst teaching staff, unclear reporting lines and responsibilities to/from the Board, alleged cover-ups and payoffs to terminated staff – need I go on?
At no time have I said or inferred that the entire education system in Guernsey is broken. The Grammar and Colleges clearly are a great success, except perhaps in the eyes of those who wish to see those fine schools eradicated.
As for your second paragraph, no manners or intellect? Firstly any poor manners shown on my part are in frustration at your spin and blind support of a woefully inefficient Education department. Intellect ? I am a highly qualified and very senior member of the finance industry and I don’t fall short on that count.
“Compelling global evidence towards non selective education”? Frankly, I’m not interested in what happens elsewhere. I’m interested in what’s right for Guernsey. However, I am totally against the namely pamby left-wing socialist attitude towards an education system under which nobody can fail. It’s as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the real world and we do not need UK -influenced educationalists trying to tell us that we should dumb down our system and hold back the high achievers. Why oh why do we always have to try to follow the UK?
If our Grammar School and Colleges were failing then my view might be different. But they aren’t. As I said previously, we need to see more time and effort applied to raising the standard of our secondary schools so they actually improve, as opposed to merely shifting high achievers from the Colleges and Grammar to the secondary schools so that the latter merely LOOK as if they have improved. In other words let’s see real improvement, not cosmetic improvement.
Furthermore, those leading Education on the island should be fully supporting whatever system we have, rather than continually trying to undermine it. We have already seen secondary school buildings neglected for many years because certain senior people at Education were so convinced that the 11-plus would get scrapped. Therein rests many of the problems which exist today.
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GM
The Education department which you describe as woefully inefficient is the same department responsible for delivering the great successes that you speak of. This FACT ( being a word of one syllable and in capital letters for your benefit) flies straight over the top of your head and is dismissed by you as spin.
The reporting lines are clear but incorrect assumptions have been made. Are there never any terminations of employment in your organistion when staff underperform?
All the alleged problems you have listed list have evidently had no effect whatsoever on the Colleges and Grammar results therefore it seems illogical to deduce that these matters are the reasons for the low results of the High Schools.
Your arrogant dismissal of what happens successfully at the top of the global league tables – not just the UK which has both comprehensive and selective systems – makes me wonder whether GM’s children are fee paid College pupils whose top rate education is nicely subsidised by the taxpayers of Guernsey. Would you care to confirm or deny this? Perhaps GM is only concerned about what is right for GM not what is right for Guernsey.
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Spartacus
The reality, which is the world in which I live, is that the results of the Colleges and Grammar have not slipped and have not been allowed to slip. There is no issue and therefore nobody to blame. Meanwhile, at two of the secondary schools, standards have drmassively yet nobody within Education is willing to accept any blame.
We hear endless stories of disgruntled and disenchanted teachers and civil servants for whom Neale was responsible. We hear of secret pay-offs and questionable payments of legal fees. We hear of decisions apparently made without Board knowledge. Need I go on? You continue to try to defend the indefensible, even daring to suggest that things aren’t all that bad. Well they are, Spartacus, and you appear to be the lone voice suggesting that all is well. Sounds to me like you are trying your best to ensure that your job is safe, but based on your attitude you need to be one of the first out of the door.
In my organisation, yes staff most certainly are terminated, but in a lawful and transparent manner with no need for confidentiality agreements. And if we analysed the reasons andfounf that one senior director or line manager was a common factor, then we would be either removing that individual from line management roles, or getting rid of that person. Yousee, in the real world,you don’t tend to find that a rotten egg is either unaccountable or untouchable, so that the problem cannot be eradicated.
As for your last paragraph, yes my only child had a fee paid College education from aged 7 to 18, that ended nearly 10 years ago and I have have had no child in the system since then. As for being subsidized,don’t make me laugh! I have paid a fortune in taxes for many years without tapping the free education system, I have actually been very heavily funding the States school sector without ever using it. So can I please have all my taxes back?
You obviously like the comprehensive system based on the UK model, with no discipline, unruly kids, teachers with no authority and an exam system under which nobody is allowed to fail. I prefer a system where a class is made up of children who all want to learn, where discipline is far less of an issue, where 2 hours a night of homework is the norm, and where getting the best possible grades is very important because it will affect their future prospects. Sorry, but Guernsey”s comprehensive secondary schools cannot deliver that, even if several of their excellent teachers would love to be able to do so. And if you want evidence of whether the education available at the Colleges (and Grammar) work, then their results are very transparent, unlike the cover-ups elsewhere.
You seem to be a lone voice, and it clearly hasn’t occurred to you that it’s because you can’t or won’t see what everyone else is seeing.
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GM
Ok I’m sure Mulkerrin is going to substantiate all those press reports which you have been hearing about. He will condemn all those whose hands are tarnished by this thing that “everyone” can see which I cannot . Bring on the hard facts and end the speculation.
Are you really ignorant enough to believe that your fee paid child was not subsidised by the States of Guernsey for his/her education at one of the States governed Colleges? Now you are having a laugh.
As for 2 hours of homework a night – LMDC pupils are lucky if they get 2 hours a week. Children who should be expelled have nowhere else to go. Sorry for the reality check but this is happening because of the selective system you are supporting which channels funding to the upper echelons. I am saying ALL IS NOT WELL monosyllabic and capitals again just for you.
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Spartacus
I doubt that a single report has ever been so eagerly anticipated locally by so many. Yes – bring on the hard facts.
No, I was not being ignorant at all. My daughter was at Blanchelande prior to the school finally receiving any States’ funding. There was no subsidy, yet my taxes were going towards paying for all States school students. Unlike you, I know what I am talking about. But even if Blanchelande had been receiving States funding at that time, have you not worked out that the school fees which I was paying would otherwise have had to be paid by the taxpayer if I had chosen to send her to a States school instead?
Your comments re homework and discipline at LMDC are precisely why parents who have ambition for their children will make huge sacrifices to pay to send them to the Colleges instead. That has NOTHING to do with the way in which the Colleges are funded. Instead it has EVERYTHING to do with how the secondary schools are run and what standards are applied by them. Is it lack of funding which prevents them from giving out more homework or applying high disciplinary standards? Of course it isn’t. For you to make such a suggestion shows that you are clutching at straws to try to support your stance. Unfortunately that is in vain because you are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
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GM
Regarding Blanchelande etc – just to clarify my view is that I do not support the current system in which the states education service supports all 3 Colleges. You clearly do so we must agree to disagree.
Regarding homework and discipline, you don’t seem to take into account that the High schools have to accommodate a very wide range of abilities and circumstances. You clearly don’t have a clue about the challenges. Yes this is a funding issue as the schools clearly do not have the resources to cover all the different requirements. The challenges have increased due to staffing problems which I have noticed this past term during the furore.
Your attitude illustrates all my concerns in a nutshell. I find your comments condescending but they remind me of why I’m bothering to post here at all.
Many High school pupils were on the borderline threshold to pass to Grammar; many pupils are late developers, some have specific reasons why they underperformed in the 11+; many parents have ambitions for their children, some are unable to afford college fees. Circumstances vary as do personal ambitions. Surely this is not beyond your grasp of understanding.
The selective system takes away the top quartile of pupils but the next quartile that remain at High schools would probably do just as well academically if given a grammar school place. This is the theory behind many of the best education systems in the world which is the stance I support.
You favour the selective system so again we must agree to disagree. Whatever the outcome of the Mulkerrin review I hope that morale and dignity is restored to all who are involved with LMDC. Forgive me if I do not respond to your next post I would be content to let you have the last word or else I fear this will never end.
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Sparticus – you are becoming quite delusional.
The failures are because of the Education dept, the successes are in spite of them.
Its not difficult to understand.
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Spartacus
If you can bring yourself around to watch it part 1 of 2 of ‘The Grammar School: A secret history’ is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm
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Ray
I will thanks. I have no problem with Grammar schools I think all children should attend them.
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