It’s an L of a wait
Friday 30th December 2011, 2:30PM GMT.
NEW motorcyclists face a four-month wait before they can get their compulsory basic training, it has emerged. The waiting list has soared over the last couple of months because of restrictions at the training site. It also emerged that the Environment Department is not meeting targets for driving tests, with a current waiting list of nine weeks. However, the department is beating its objective for motorcycle and commercial vehicle assessments, with a current waiting time of five weeks.
NEW motorcyclists face a four-month wait before they can get their compulsory basic training, it has emerged.
The waiting list has soared over the last couple of months because of restrictions at the training site.
It also emerged that the Environment Department is not meeting targets for driving tests, with a current waiting list of nine weeks.
However, the department is beating its objective for motorcycle and commercial vehicle assessments, with a current waiting time of five weeks.
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It has been worse but it has been better, another underperformance with no responsibility accepted, nothing new there then, the malaise continues.
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It’s about time the compulsory part of this scheme was scrapped. It’s unnecessarily bureaucratic, it’s holding things up ridiculously at a time when we should be encouraging people to take to two wheels instead of discouraging them and at the end of the day I doubt it serves any useful purpose whatsoever.
The only way to learn to ride is through experience on the road, mostly AFTER you’ve passed your test. You certainly don’t need a minder in a high viz jacket on a stupidly oversized bike trailing behind you in order to do that. Happy New Year all you new riders. I hope you all get there… eventually!
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Martino,
are you saying we should also scrap the need to enforce the co driver rule for car drivers??? the need is the same as they are deemed not to have significant road sense and control to drive by themselves.
Alot of the riders have never been on the road and when I did mine some have no idea of how to ride and what to do. By scrapping the scheme will make them more dangerous on the roads, at least with the scheme they are getting used to the bike before they are on the roads on their own.
I do agree though the waiting list is far too long but the answer is not to scrap the scheme.
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I’m talking only about motorbikes here and I have been riding bikes and scooters since my mid teens – getting on for four decades now.
The compulsory motor cycle training scheme is a complete waste of space and I am convinced that I would have gained absolutely nothing from doing it myself.
Notsostoopid’s post below sums up just how stupid this bureaucratic scheme is in reality.
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Before I start, let me say I also ride, though not for as long as you!
In my opinion, the CBT is very important, if you have a chat to the instructors and hear about some of the people they don’t pass you’ll understand exactly the kind of lunatics they are saving you from encountering on the roads – e.g. going wrong way down one way rounds, turning “right” at a roundabout by going the wrong way around it!
Not being rude, but 40 years ago the roads were a lot quieter and you probably got away with a few things that would get you in a lot more trouble with the amount of traffic on the roads nowadays.
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Mark there have always been nutters on the roads and they all get passed in the end so I take your instructor’s second hand comments with a huge pinch of salt.
As for the roads being busier now than when I learned to ride on my Honda C50 in the 70s, yes that’s true but the rudiments of learning to ride haven’t changed. In fact it’s easier now because bike technology – and safety – has improved so much over the last 40 years. I should know because I’m still riding.
I maintain that we would not see any negative impact if CBT is scrapped – just the positive aspect of learner riders not being discouraged by a long wait and not being ripped off to the tune of £60 through being forced to undergo ‘training’ that they do not really need.
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I’ve just done a little research online and whilst I can’t find the official government stats I’ve found various references to a reduction in motorbike accidents of around 40% following the introduction of the CBT in the UK. This would suggest that the CBT is reasonably effective in preventing accidents. Modern rider aids aren’t going to stop you making errors through a basic lack of road skills – which is exactly what the CBT is aimed to do.
Having to do a CBT before you get freedom on the roads is a fairly low hurdle compared to 15-20 hours of driving instruction plus a theory test plus a practical test. It would help though if the waiting list was only a couple of weeks rather than the 3-4 months currently quoted!
Of course, to stay on the roads a motorcyclist has to do both the theory and practical tests as well but it’s still much quicker to get started.
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Hmmm, another problem at Environment on Peter Sirett’s watch. There’s a surprise.
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I agree with Martino.
As I went thru my Teenage years I had all sorts of bikes up to a 750cc, taught myself to ride them, never had a bad accident and never had any problems, I then went and lived in Asia where i rode a 125cc everyday for 7 years on some of the most deadly roads in the world and not once had an accident.
Then last year I returned to this money grabbing island and bought a 50cc , yeas thats right 50cc, and I had to pay £60 odd quid to have someone who was on a big bike follow me for 2 hours and then sign apiece of paper to say that in fact, I could actually ride a motor bike, I also had to wait 3 months to be told.
Thanks alot, I really feel safer and a better rider now…. not !!!!
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pbfalla never had this compulsory training and it hasn’t done him any harm
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Martino, I know you are talking only about bikes but look at the bigger picture, if you stop the training for bikes the next argument will be why do learned in cars need a co driver!?
Its a safety element to ensure everyone on the roads does have the skills to ride it is then up to them if they are stupid and wreck less once on the road but at least it shows they do have basic control of the bike.. I for one would rather have it in place so no novice goes into the back I me or dies as they are unable to control their vehicle on guernseys narrow.
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Your ‘cars next’ argument is a total red herring. It’s ridiculous to compare cars with motorcycles. Also you appear to have a very short memory because the compulsory m/c training is a very recent phenomenon. For decades thousands of islanders learned to ride perfectly well without the need for these dubious and expensive so-called ‘training’ sessions. I guarantee you that if the training was scrapped tomorrow there would be no discernible increase in accidents/incidents involving learner riders in the future.
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I really don’t think it is. Answer me one one thing, why do you need a co driver in a car when you first get a licence?
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I want to know why people of any age can ride a pedal bicycle on the roads, at any time of the day, without company, in any weather conditions and without protective helmets or clothing, with no compulsary training at all.
Oh, can it be that it`s because it doesn`t have a petrol motor to polute the environment?
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I think it’ll be something to do with the facts that a) we’d like to encourage more people to cycle, since it’s a healthy activity, and b) cycles are (compared to motorbikes and cars) less dangerous to other road users.
Please don’t bother arguing about these two points. There’s plenty of robust scientific evidence I could use to back my points up but it being a Friday evening I have better things to do than list it here.
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If this CBT thing is about safety, stop giving drivers a right to ride a moped without training.
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I think that has stopped hasn’t it?
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@ DonkeysLife …. but if you have a car licence am I right in sayingyou can then ride a 50cc with no training or experience ? I think this is the case so explain that one.
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Car learnes need a co-driver as the damage a car can do is far greater then a bike so having another in theory more experienced pair of eyes should improve safety to other road users.
When I had my scooter, 29 years ago, I took delivery of it at a school, think it was St Peter Port secondary car park, and was shown how to operate it and then had to show I could ride it around the car park using all controls and being able to look behind etc. Got the bit of paper and away you went. So similar to now but maybe the waiting list was shorter, so some form of assessment before being on the road.
Nothing wrong with the discipline of waiting, though 4 months is too long.
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I can not see why people need to do the CBT.
I learnt to ride my first motorcycle, a 100c in the 80′s and I didnt have any instruction, fell off it once at 5mph and decided not to do that again!!
25 years later I have ridden all sorts of bikes at all sorts of speeds in different countries and never had another accident.
Mark do the stats say how many people stopped riding motorcycles because they couldnt be bothered to pay the money to take the CBT? As for accident rates I don’t think you can compare us to the UK as they have a speed limit of 70 (!), not 35. I know there are some over here that go faster, but they would do that whether they passed a test or not.
Think of all the fuel that would have been saved if the people waiting for the test had been out on their bikes instead of getting lifts from friends and family!
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I agree the UK isn’t directly comparable but I couldn’t find any stats for Guernsey.
I would expect a certain amount of correlation though as a lot of the UK traffic is inner city with 30-40mph speed limits in force.
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For what its worth, I feel the CBT to be a valuable training course to take.
Being a mature learner of all things motorbikes I took my CBT in 2010. I felt like a bit of a plonker to tell you the truth being that I was taking my training with seven 14 year olds. I was more than capable of riding my motor cycle however witnessed some truly horrific riding from some of the younger applicants.
One young female managed to flip her scooter (landing on top of her!) going around cones at about 10 miles an hour. Thank goodness she wasn’t on the road, or injured.
Another young male had a 50cc motorbike that he couldn’t reach the floor with. In fact it was my onion that this chap shouldn’t have been able to continue although the instructor on this occasion seemed to turn a blind eye and the young man continued to shift his body weight side to side depending on if he was changing gears of braking.
Can the CBT team not recruit more personal?
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At the very least CBT should not be compulsory for learner riders aged 17 and over – the age at which you can drive a car. This would solve the backlog problem and direct the CBT resources at the only ones who might need some sort of training – the immature gormless teenagers like those bart describes. Making mature adults go through this test is an insult as well as a rip off.
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Is not the CBT scheme an Enviroment protected private motoring school monopoly?
“OUR!”
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Good. They can spend the 4 months learning about the rules of the road then!!
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Booked a CBT for geared bike >125cc Saturday – next available date 5th May. :(
Booked Bike Theory test at the same time – could have taken it on Monday, but thought I’d have some preparation time so going on Thursday.
I already have CBT for 125cc Automatic for a year, but cannot do Direct Access to upgrade.
I’m 45, been riding for years in the Far East – all types of bike.
Been driving here and in the UK since age 17, one accident 25 years ago.
I didn’t mind taking the CBT last year, quite enjoyed it actually as it’s nice to get feedback, but I am slightly annoyed that I have to take the Basic Course again from scratch just because I’ve added gears into the equation, I can’t see that Direct Access training wouldn’t suffice. Extremely annoyed that it’ll take 4 months before I can ride the expensive bike I’ve just bought.
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If I were you, Charlie, I’d ignore that silly law and get out on your bike yesterday. I remember when I took my old Cat 2 a few decades back. I didn’t bother with the ‘L’ plate until the afternoon of the test and I had it on my bike for no more than half an hour in all. Them were the days!
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I’m not sure how long this CBT malarky takes, having passed my motoring tests way back before health and safety became an industry in its own right
If it’s illegal not to have the training and Environment once again demonstrate their incompetence why not drastically shorten the length of the training for a while and make it a sort of ‘crash course’
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@Ray:
2 sessions about 6 hours in total over 2 days.
The first session is divided into three elements:
Element A First the eyesight test then a safety talk 20+ mins
Element B Learning the controls of the bike 45+ mins
Element C Learning to ride the bike 2 to 3 hrs
The second session will normally be done the following day and consists of two elements:
Element D A longer but important talk 45+ mins
Element E Riding on the roads 2 hrs minimum
You are graded for each element and even thoug this is training rather than testing it is possible to fail.
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Jeepers Charlie
That sounds complicated.I presume that the bikes are delivered to the test site on a low loader rather than ridden there by the learners
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