Ex-Education minister threatens legal action
Thursday 26th January 2012, 9:44AM GMT.
Deputy Carol Steere.
OUTGOING Education minister Carol Steere has threatened to use the courts to settle her disputes with former colleagues, deputies and the Guernsey Press.
In a dramatic day inside and outside the States, during which Robert Sillars was elected as her replacement, Deputy Steere, pictured, also revealed she had made a code of conduct complaint against Deputy Jane Stephens.
She called for a judicial review into the events that led to the critical review of the department’s services in the States yesterday, although she could not say what it would be directed at or how the process would operate.
Guernsey Press editor Richard Digard said: ‘Our disclosures were vindicated by the Mulkerrin report commissioned by the Policy Council and by Trevor Robinson report, yet Deputy Steere insists it’s only her version of events that’s correct. The record shows it differently.’
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This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Downton Abbey meets X Factor
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A woman with courage and integrity is standing up against a local newspaper which has been intent on using propaganda to incite public hatred against one innocent Guernsey citizen. Their motives? Personality politics and newspaper sales. Her motives? To safeguard Guernsey’s reputation as a society where justice prevails. Wake up people.
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One wonders if Deputy Steere would have been so condemning of the Mulkerrin report if she had come out of it looking great.
She said that she would step down if the report highlighted failings in her department. It is clear that there are – whether through her doing or not.
One now wonders what the Press has reported that is untrue against Deputy Steere. It seems to me that they have been intent in rooting out the truth in this matter.
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Wake up! THERE ARE NO HIGHLIGHTED FAILINGS! You are referring to unsubstantiated criticisms.
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what rubbish how can you say “unsubstantiated criticisms” when the results speak for themselves
Its a fact that the schools highlighted were underperforming (surely even you cannot dispute this) and that this information was attempted to be hidden from those that need to know – the parents of the children that attend these schools.
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MP
If the results speak for themselves are you referring to Grammar results? Les Beaucamp?
2 schools under performing – yes fact. NOT FAILING.
Attempted to be hidden? – WRONG. Results of the individual schools were always available to parents. The results were therefore in the public domain before the fateful questions were asked in the States. FACT
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does that mean pupils don’t fail exams anymore, they just ‘underperform’ in them ?
what a load of politically correct claptrap.
2 of our high schools are clearly failing their pupils ….. passing this failure off as ‘underperformance ‘ is of no help to anyone, the pupils being failed particularly …..
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Toby
Actually yes that is the case. the lowest grade is a G which is classed as a pass rate and a pupil would get that for writing his name on the exam paper.
Failing is a word which should be used in context, There will always be pupils who fail and there will always be a school which performs worst. The High schools are never going to achieve the same results as would be possible in comprehensives. These are FACTS.
Therefore in this context our education system will never stop failing. Even in Finland where the system is widely recognised as being the best in the world there are some schools which do not achieve as much as others and some students who flunk. Stop press – FINLAND SCHOOLS ARE FAILING!
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Spartacus- If, like you state, the results of the schools were always available then why were the questions even asked by the states? Why would they have to ask a question that they and the public already had the answers to? Why was there anything to uncover if, like you say, everything was there for them to read anyway and if everyone knew anyway then why would you describe what was uncovered “fateful”?
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Rachel
As I understand it, the results were available via the school on enquiry by any parent or politician. The Press perhaps felt unable to print these figures because they were not official data released by the government. However they were in the public domain and if you look back in the your shout pages around early September you will see that contributers had stated the unofficial figures for the three high schools in their posts before the questions were asked in the states. In his letter to the Press in the summer (which you can also check if you wish) Derek Neale also explained that the figures would be officially released in November when the confirmed figures were known.
I describe what transpired as fateful because of the consequences of these events and the extent to which the public have been led down a path.
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If that were correct then the education department would not have refused to provide the datum for individual schools back in september. The datum which was available for parents was that which was highlighted by 25squaremiles in his/her blog: http://25squaremiles.blogspot.com/
which demonstrated a clear skewing of the results to put Guernsey in a favourable light. It is this whole skewing of the results, the apparent deceitful fiddling with the statistics which is the source of this debacle that Carol now finds herself in. Carol may have even been led along like we all were until the truth were revealed by the publishing of the frontier report which put the spotlight on the available data and the press on a mission to uncover the correct results and what exactly was going on with our schools and the education department as a whole. In any case, the schools are now in a better position to improve now that the public are watching and resources allocated to ensure that this happens. Rest assured, they will be closely watched as they should have been all along. Its a shame that this has happened to Carol who probably had the best of intentions. I do not believe in any case that Carol is solely responsible for this and I do have sympathy for her, however, unfortunately not being responsible does not make her unaccountable and accountability is part and parcel of being at the top.
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Rachel
The figures Jane Stephens asked about in the states were the individual schools results for 5 GCSEs A*-C including English & Maths. Before she asked that question the unconfirmed figures were already in the public domain as demonstrated by Mr Bean here:
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/latest/2011/09/08/education-backs-down-over-gcse-exam-results/#comment-104670
The 25 square mile data relates to the other benchmark which excludes English & maths. I see that Mulkerrin has used the data for all pupils not just exam entrants which seems logical going forwards but not looking back.
Mulkerrin says “There is not enough focus on target setting and benchmarking” I hope that he will give us a new benchmark for our highs schools which takes into account all his observations. This will enable the parents and public to watch closely and monitor as you say.
Would you care to put a figure on what you think the target benchmark for the High schools should be?
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Sure. The logical benchmark would at least be an equivalence to the UK average. Perhaps we could look at areas such as Kent which maintains a similar socioeconomic status and educational structure to ours with Grammar schools and scholarships.
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I would be grateful if you could provide a link to where the stats were in the public domain prior to september please. Mr Bean never provided any link. Mr Bean was an anonymous figure whom at the time was viewed as having “inside knowledge”. Mr Bean never provided any link because it simply was not there for public viewing. If the information was there the press would have printed it. It was only brought into the public domain through the questions asked by Jane Stephens. I specifically recall many statements by those in education, in regards to the release of the data, being along the lines of “it won’t happen on my watch”. The education department did not want to release the figures as it did not want individual schools to be compared to each other as they are in England. But without the figures being released then the public can never be assured that our Education system and our individual schools are improving. If the information is not in the open then it is quite rightly viewed as “hidden”. It is better now that the question was asked and is all out in the open and can be monitored and scrutinised by the public. People always work better when they are being watched. As i said before, i do sympathise immensely with Carol. In my opinion she was a little misguided but i do believe she had the best of intentions at all times, but whether you are in business or politics, accountability is part of being at the top – which is why those at the top damn rightly deserve the big bucks.
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@Rachel -
I understand your point. You feel the results should have been released to the public as an official press release immediately and it has been accepted unanimously that in hindsight this would have been the best policy.
Bear in mind that even in the UK there has been debate and controversy regarding the merits and problems of publishing league tables and this is ongoing.
The confusion however is that the High school figures were initially released in a controlled way via the schools to parents and politicians rather than by officially verifiable means such as a press release. Nevertheless information does not have to be officially verifiable in order to be “in the public domain”.
The second point is that, in his letter to the press, Derek Neale, on behalf of the education department, pledged to release the figures in November. This indicates a public declaration of commitment that there was no intention to hide the figures.
Mr Bean could be an insider or a parent or a friend of parents at the three schools, we don’t know. But he published information which was later confirmed to be true. The information was thereafter “in the public domain”.
It’s for each to make their own mind up if they think the intention was to try to hide the figures from the public and if so what the motives were. However any suggestion that there was an attempt to hide the figures from the parents is surely a misunderstanding.
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The figures were released only because of the ongoing media pressure to do so. Education made it clear at the time that they would have preferred not to publish the results. If education were clear and transparent from the beginning then all of this would’ve been averted. There would have been no story. You cannot provide a link because there was none. The information from 25squaremiles is evidence that Education used “spin” on its own stats to deceive the public. It has publicly decreed that education here outperforms that in the UK for years a statement which was found not to be true and definitely not true of all schools. I am positive that things will now turn around for us. Now that everything is in the open as it should be, the problems can be addressed.
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@ Rachel –
it’s clear you have made your mind up about what to believe and that is your prerogative.
If you can give me a link or reference to any publicised statement from education which you feel has been proved to be false I would like to see for myself as I have been looking and not found one, although I do agree that statistics can be manipulated to suit the purpose of the interpreter.
The only link I can provide which convinces me that the information was in the public domain for parents and that the intention was to publish it in November is the one below from the education website news section.
http://www.education.gg/article/4283/Response-to-Rule-5-questions-on-GCSE-results
“individual school results are all widely available from individual schools in Guernsey, as in Jersey, and the schools are able to explain what the results represent, the standards that have been achieved in the school, and the curriculum that has been followed – as well as identifying all the other factors which contribute to a good education valued by pupils, parents and employers.
Headteachers have always been willing to discuss their school’s performance with any parent or politician and to set it in the correct context. Many Deputies will be aware from their attendance at School presentation evenings and parents’ evenings that information on public examination results is given as part of the headteachers’ reports.
I believe such important matters should be handled in the correct and appropriate manner and I repeat again that I do not think it is in the best interests of the schools and their pupils to bring forward publication of these results. “
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I have continuously asked you for information which you yourself present to me as “fact” -an act which proves that my mind is open to more information- however, unfortunately, you have not come up with anything valid to support your view. Where you state that schools provide “Individual school results” well this could mean anything couldn’t it? Its just a general statement and not very specific. I have looked back at Mr Beans initial posts and he states that he received the information from school teachers that he knows- which means that the information was leaked (whether it was on purpose or not is irrelevant). The Guernsey Press actually asked Mr Bean to contact them so they could speak to him about the results – meaning the GP they had no other source at the time for those results and were previously unaware of the results. If the results were easily accessed from the school directly then why would they request to speak to Mr Bean?
The evidence given by 25Miles clearly shows how Education historically altered the data to show themselves in a good light. In addition to this, Education gave the Frontier report the wrong statistics for its report because it didn’t understand which data was correct and didn’t understand that it was doing so. After this, the public lost faith in Education and wanted to see the information for themselves in a like for like comparison with the UK. Education at first refused but under continuous pressure eventually relented when asked specifically by Jane Stephens. The states then had to change its website which stated that “Guernsey continuous outperforms its UK counterparts” (if memory serves me correctly as it is no longer there)- This was an official statement which had to be changed in light of recent events. So of course all of the evidence points to the Education department either “hiding” information or simply lacking the skills and resources to interpret their own data in any meaningful way and trying to hide that incompetency. Either way, same result. I cannot brush these events away so frivolously. I am absolutely glad that the truth has come out so that the underlying problems can now be addressed. Can’t fix a problem if you don’t admit there is one first.
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@Rachel -
I am appreciative that you have been willing to debate this thoroughly with me. I find your arguments very interesting and well researched.
The individual High school results for the benchmark 5 GCSEs A* – C including English & maths (relevant results) were in the public domain before Jane Stephens asked the questions – I have proved this fact although I accept your comment that this was leaked information.
I accept that I can not prove that any parent or politican was given the relevant results however you cannot prove that they were not. The Press were perhaps hoping that Mr Bean was a verifiable source or a contact of verifiable sources but alas not because teachers have confidentiality rules. The schools would not have given the press the relevant results as they were only allowed to release them to parents or politicians.
Just suppose that Jane Stephens asked for the relevant results from the schools, as I am assuming she did. They either gave her the information or they refused. If they refused she would have been at liberty to cause a furore and go to to the press. This didn’t happen. If they did give her the information she would have been bound by states conduct rules to keep it to herself. I therefore suspect that she already had the information before she asked the questions in the states. Although I admit I cannot prove this I believe it is a valid assumption.
For the press to publish the information prior to this they would have needed to find a set of parents who were willing to share the details publicly. This didn’t happen however I repeat – this doesn’t prove that no parents had the information or access to the information.
Your allegation of the education department’s retraction of its claim that “Guernsey continuously outperforms its UK counterparts” is interesting. A statement like that has no place unless it can pass some objective test. Perhaps it was able to do so prior to 2011?
As a layman I am in no position to analyse all the data presented by either the education department; frontier economics; Mulkerrin; let alone 25 square miles. Lies, damn lies and statistics!
I would like to see a professional review into all this “evidence” to determin a fair and acurate picture of the performance of all Guernsey’s schools for the past 25 years. I was hoping Mulkerrin would accomplish this but he didn’t come close.
I believe this is necessary in order to ensure that published data going forward is accurate, meaningful and independently verified and Rachel, this is surely where our separate views meet at last?
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Thank you for your response. Perhaps our views do indeed meet here, however, the resource pot is not bottomless and I would prefer to see resources spent on improving our schools and getting them up to more desirable levels first and concentrating on the data from now on. In fact, any application program used to accurately collate the present data for analysis should easily be able to also handle previous data and create reports from the last 25 years providing its accuracy and ease of data migration. Should be a no brainer with the correct system in place.
Your point on confidentiality has hit the nail on the head. Perhaps indeed, those in the know were bound by a confidentiality clause as you suggest…. that is a very reasonable assumption. But isn’t that the whole problem? Why would Education bind people in the know so they could not discuss each schools results publicly? Confidentiality whilst valid for individual students is not valid for a school as a whole. Education knew that some schools were performing worse than others and chose to keep this information confidential. In this respect, confidential means the same as censorship means the same as hidden- all achieving the same ends. The public wanted the information as reassurance that the children of Guernsey were getting the best possible education that they could achieve. If a school was “underperforming” don’t you think the public should be empowered to put pressure on the Education department and states so that they can get the school back up to an acceptable level? Don’t you think this a desirable outcome? I would really like for our views to meet on this one important point. An open, honest, transparent education system is very important to me and recent events have led to this outcome being close to achieved. We live in an information age and the public expect it free, easy and honest- anything less is intolerable. Ignoring this fact is our Education departments main (if only) failing. Regarding our schools, as I’ve said before, nothing increases performance like competition and an audience. These two facts alone should see increased results amongst our comprehensives even if nothing else is done…. and hopefully with more initiatives our results should strengthen even further.
BTW I applaud you for your support of Carol Steere. Its very admirable to stand up for something you believe in. She is an intelligent, hard working woman who deserves our respect. I wish her well for the future.
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@Rachel
The chorus of “it wasn’t my fault” just isn’t cutting it and trial by press and a sideways move leaves a unilateral sour taste of unfinished business.
You are right about funding constraints but I think about the airport cost and get frustrated. I care more about our government infrastructure and the apparent problems. Is anyone going to vote this April? Any costs of answering all the education concerns should not come from the education budget.
The statistics should be an easy fix as you say which is why Mulkerrin was disappointing, yet again we had someone pick and choose which data to use.
Regarding league tables debate, I understand the stance they took but I also understand why many do not. Bear in mind in Guernsey parents cannot choose which High school they attend and most cannot afford to move house willy nilly. Bear in mind house prices are affected by these results. Parents have minimal power to apply pressure. Every year a school’s pupils are going to suffer the effects of being labelled the worst school.
Carol Steere’s justification for the Board’s decision not to release the individual schools results was acknowledged by Mulkerrin however his one opposite argument was that standards will rise by releasing them. Not so according to this recent report. As I said before the debate in the UK is ongoing. This is not just our education board trying to hide unpleasant results there is a valid argument behind the decision.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/9038770/School-league-tables-causing-drop-in-standards.html
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Spartacus / Rachel
Very good points, I don’t know if you have seen tonights question time on BBC1 but you would find it very interesting.
The UK league tables were also manipulated, I don’t know if this program is on BBC I player but it is worth seeing.
Very good debate which unfortunately had to end through time constraints.
If you can’t find it let me know, i have recorded it to the hard drive and should be able to put it on disc.
I’m away for the weekend but will look in Sunday.
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Frankie, don’t know if you still checking this thread but is this the program you were referring to? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16742951
Spartacus, International tests are similar to IQ tests like those taken at II+ broadly speaking. One may suggest that with the decrease of Grammar schools in most areas in the UK, there is no longer a need to coach children for these tests and therefore they will perform worse than prior. The article states that they cannot be studied for, a statement which in itself laughable. Actually, if tested, I believe that Guernsey with our current system intact, where most students have had experience with these types of exams, would fly high! Education should test pupils in year seven when the 11+ is still fresh. Perhaps a means to redeem our education system at last?
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Spartacus, you are without a doubt CS, DN or someone very closely related. Every single thing you post alludes closer to your true identity and such poor attempts to pass yourself off as somebody different only serves to make your posts highly untrustworthy.
Aside from that, you often really do appear to talk a total pile of crap. On the one hand you insist nobody and nothing has failed. You then go on to explain that the act of a child applying only a name to an exam paper results in a ‘pass’ grade of ‘G’. Presumably not applying a name is classed as non-attendance and is the only way to attain a ‘fail’? Knowing this, how would a raft of G’s be any more likely to secure a job than a raft of fails?!
ONLY a politition has the sheer audacity to describe that ‘G’ as anything more positive as a ‘fail’ and you should be incredibly ashamed of yourself for doing so.
…You then go on to reply to Toby that the “education system will never stop failing”… You are obviously a very confused, self-deluded and hypocritical individual whom is best ignored. The education system cannot fail to improve with the removal of people like yourself.
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Another unnecessarily ill mannered individual who is so convinced of being right and so brainwashed against any other point of view.
Feel free to ignore my posts and keep your pointless vitriol to yourself in future. Thanks.
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Spartacus, its about time you took your own advice!
Reading through these forums, 1 name repeatedly reappears and its yours.
And in most of your posts, you tell people about FACTS. Peoples own personal interpretation of those FACTS means that they have come to their own conlusion. This DOES NOT MEAN they are wrong – they simply have a difference of view to yourself.
Its about time you stopped trolling (FACT) on here and became a Deputy….it would seem you have the right stuff for the job!
(highly opinionated without any actual clue – FACT!)
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Bob
I wholeheartedly agree with what you are alluding to. Opinions are not facts and ultimately there is no such thing as right or wrong, just opinions. I will take on board what you have said as constructive criticism.
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I am past caring about the whys and wherefores, and who is responsible for what has happened in the education service. Clearly one or two individuals cannot be held entirely responsible! Like the rest of the island, I would like to see the situation resolved.
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“Her disputes” – says it all really.
Here we have the Mulkerrin Report. A report that parents, children and teachers have needed for years. A report with EVIDENCE from parents, teachers, civil servants and ministers, full of data and statistics.
Roll on April when she won’t have her soapbox to preach from.
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I expect they will commission yet another report and another and another, at great expense, until they find someone who may report something more positive on the Education Board.
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Listen to yourself, with your biased and uninformed/irrational views predicated on a biased standpoint due to your profession.
The Mulkerrin report was actually an OPINION and not an actual full analytical review of the Guernsey system.
This “evidence” you speak of is only opinion.
How about you step down from your soapbox instead?
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Are you for real? With a name like ‘The Truth’?
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No, I’m entirely figurative.
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Just because you do not like what I say…
This forum allows a teacher the anonymity to express their point.
Usually the ‘opinion’ of PROFESSIONALS actually counts for something! Afterall, when you go to the Doctor, he’s expressing an opinion and most people wouldn’t question that.
Calm down.
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Funny how people ask for second opinions from doctors though…
I’ll calm down once teachers stop ranting and raving. You have one of the easiest jobs going.
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No, but there are people who would be alive today if they had!
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The Truth… the irony.
This is the last reply I’ll make regarding this.
But if you think teachers have one of the easiest jobs going, please come in and spend a few weeks with us. I won’t patronise you further with all the additional responsibilities we have as I’m sure that more enlightened folk know.
Of course, I have a ‘biased standpoint’ though.
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The “evidence” you speak of is verbal and would probably not be valid to submit in a judicial review. The report contained crucial omissions and the gaps deserve to be filled.
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“…….use the courts to settle her disputes with former colleagues, deputies and the Guernsey Press.”
Really?
Seriously?
Anyone one else need suing? Why not sue the voters too for electing you?
What ever happened to going graciously and QUIETLY!?!
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Indeed eggy.
And how exactly is she planning to fund a judicial review? Tax payers money? I think not somehow.
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Deputy Steere is yesterday’s news.
The rest of the island wants to move on and ensure our children get the best possible education.
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Heaven hath no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorned
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Any evidence verbally submitted to Mulkerrin is probably not valid for the purpose of judicial review and his report contains crucial omissions.
Guernsey’s reputation has suffered a disservice, children have suffered unnecessary stigma, teachers are now off sick with stress – newspaper sales have gone up – this needs to be addressed properly and thoroughly and judicial review seems the appropriate mechanism.
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So Spartacus.
You think its ok to drag this whole sorry saga on through the courts in the hope that Steere can somehow vindicate herself of any wrong doing even though the rest of the world can see quite clearly that there have been major failings and cover ups going on for years.
As i just said to Eggy. Even if she did somehow get her way, Who exactly do you think is going to pay for a judicial review, which we all know could run into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Do you really think that the Guernsey public would even entertain the idea of their hard earned tax paying money being used for this purpose just so that Steere could get back on her soap box in court and tell everyone how
everyone else is wrong and she is right.
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I’m more than happy to see tax payer money put to good use for a change. This is exactly what our justice system is for. You should welcome this.
Not everyone else is wrong just you and others who have been brainwashed. THERE HAVE BEEN NO MAJOR FAILINGS AND COVER UPS. Wake up!
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The teachers off with stress are the ones who cannot cope.
Mulkerrin has done the island a great service.
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Are you one of these teachers?
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Nope – being a teacher does not cause me stress. I work hard. I teach good lessons. I write my reports. I phone parents. Classes I teach score well in tests.
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Oh I see you’re now blaming the teachers for being ill.
How can your classes score well? I thought that was impossible due to the central problems Mulkerrin spoke of.
By the way you sound like a good teacher.
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Do you have proof that the Guernsey Press sales have gone up as a direct result of their reporting of this shambles?
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Yes I do
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I would be interested to know firstly how you managed to get access to the sales figures on a daily basis, and secondly how you have ascertained that the increase in sales (if indeed there is), is a DIRECT result of the Carol Steere/Education saga
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really ? Have you surveyed statistically significant number of Press buyers and discovered that they ONLY bought it to read about Education ?
Or have sales gone up and you have decided to attribute this to Education stories without carrying out any research at all ?
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Fair points – you could be right who knows. Maybe its my bad. Maybe they were running the story purely as a charitable service to the public in the same way the UK red tops do.
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That’s what the courts are for – to settle disputes
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I hope she does go to Court; so long as she picks up the tab at the end of it all; but I wonder if she will accept the findings if they come out in favour of everyone but herself?
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Quite right too Spartacus,
If she is paying for it. Doesn’t mind her record banded about in court. Go for it.
But if she was doing a first rate job and could prove it. Would she not have resigned in the first place?.
It would seem almost something to be proud of. Being the head of a failing department.
She hasn’t got anything to do with banking has she?
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She resigned because of the personality politics and injustice not due to any admittance of failing. THE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT FAILED.
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THE DEPARTMENT HAS FAILED TO SUPPORT ITS SCHOOLS.
THE DEPARTMENT HAS FAILED A GENERATION OF CHILDREN.
THE DEPARTMENT HAS FAILED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.
Can we shout any louder?!
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No Sparty – she resigned before she would have had to face the humiliation of being forced out. She may once have been a punky rebel, but now unfortunately, she just comes over as being a bit sad.
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Sarnia Expat
and you just come over as being a bit bitchy.
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Hi Spartacus
I almost felt sorry for Carol Steere in the grief that she finds herself in,but unfortunately she was booted out/resigned because she was let down by the very person that should have in fact have made her job easy i.e the senior civil servant of her department who was too busy micro managing the capital building programme and sorting out the day to day minutia of her department and not delegating this work and thereby leaving him time to do his real job- our childrens education .Forgive me for bringing it up,but I do believe this senior civil servant plus one other were sent away at the tax payers expense to attend a course in the UK on the planning of schools. I always thought that this was the area of expertise where Architects came into their own ,and also this planning cost would be included within RG Fallas tender (for which they received substantial fees).I am surprised that the Director of Health didn’t go on one of these very expensive courses to enable the last Phase of the PEH to be built.Second thoughts Did he !
You employ professionals to design specialist buildings NOT ex teachers/frustrated builders/designers which is what has happened in the case of Baubigny and Beaucamp.By all means have involvement with headteachers etc for their input into their final requirements and final fit out but please do not micro manage the build process.
On the subject of Design and Build ,it is a known fact within the building industry that if you enter into a Design and Build contract you build the building to the lowest acceptable criteria/specification otherwise you do not make money.
That is why we have partitions that are not up to the job at Baubigny plus various other on going long term problems, and in the future we,the tax payer,will end up paying huge sums in maintanance costs due to this form of building contract procurement.
We never seem to learn!!
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Hi Mr Mint
I’m sure you have many valid comments in your post. I know nothing about school buildings or what should go into them however what I do suspect is that Derek Neale didn’t take it upon himself to widen his job description. It must have been asked of him by his employer. As I say I don’t know the ins and outs all I know is that he has been personally publicly and extensively criticised for doing his job and this is wrong in my opinion. A judicial review would help separate fact from fiction to vindicate him or not as the case may be.
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Ummm Spartacus. Anyone who enters politics and expects to not receive some sort of personal attack is rather small minded in my opinion. Politicians who cry over being criticised have quite frankly chosen the wrong career and should resign.
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@CJS –
In fairness, I believe Carol Steere understands this – she has been outwitted in the political game.
I gather the injustice she is complaining about is the criticism of the education department itself and particularly the civil servants because they are being treated like politicians although they are bound by rules in accordance with their employment terms & conditions so are not free to do what they want within their job and are not at liberty to speak out to defend themselves publicly.
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The courts are for those who have exhausted all other avenues. They are expensive and should be a last resort.
A judicial review is a mechanism to review processes and practices to ensure that everything was conducted within the parameters of the law and guidelines and refers to governmental activity. It appears that her grievance is far more suited to a civil suit against those she believes have wronged her.
If the Education Department is found to have operated within the law and guidelines, she will be liable for the costs of the judicial review. If the Department is found to have acted outside of its powers, as Minister, she will be responsible for that. I see no sense in her pursuing this.
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SF
Exactly – you have missed the point. It is not about her being wronged – she is a politician and fair game for criticism which she is at liberty to rebut. Derek Neale does not have this privilege – he is an employee with a private contract which forbids him to speak out.
She is seeking a mechanism to right this wrong. I expect the judicial review board should decide whether the case is warranted to proceed or not and who should cover the costs.
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Sparti me old mate
We ain’t never gonna agree on this. DN should have gone as well. He’s lost the confidence of the vast majority of the people (and certainly those posting here) and been identified as a key problem by some of his peers.
To make my position crystal; CS has gone and that is good. DN has been moved sideways, and that is bad. Any other exponents of their dark art within the department need to go so that the Department can move forward. Perhaps we shall have to wait until May for that when a new board is elected. Over and out.
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SF
Thanks for being civil in debating the issue I appreciate that.
However referring to “their dark art” is really confirming that this debate is nothing more than a witch hunt and therefore belongs in the dark ages rather than 21st century.
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Spartacus says “Derek Neale does not have this privilege – he is an employee with a private contract which forbids him to speak out”
Spartacus you forget that the same Neale wrote a letter to the Press saying all was well with the education system. You might also recall a few days later Steere was forced to tell the truth of the Mare and St Sampsons.
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Stephen John
I expect his letter to the press was authorised by his employer as it was sent in his capacity as representative of the States of Guernsey. I gather deputy Steere asked permission for him to be allowed to speak out in defence of the personal criticisms against him but that this request was refused due to the terms of his contract.
All was, and is, well with the education system, even though 2 schools had results which reflected the 2 events which were described in detail by Mulkerrin.
You may have failed to notice that in his letter he explained that the results would be released in the autumn – that is exactly the same results that you, and many others, are saying were “forced” to be revealed. Please at least admit you misunderstood the intention was that the results would be released, its there in black and white.
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By printing more articles about her, the GP is just pandering to her attention-seeking whims.
You’ve resigned now Steere, please go away and stop whining and getting on my nerves.
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I can remember when Deputy Steere began her career in politics and was a force for good, representing the common man and fighting injustice.
So sad to see her now.
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Well, you know, this is the very thing that perplexes me. Carol Steere would be in my top 3 politicians with integrity and the good of the island at heart. And I don’t see why she would have changed. Perhaps she hasn’t.
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When the States wanted a judicial review of the UK decision to scrap LVCR they put aside £60,000 and were told it would be more like five times as much.
I hope Ms. Steere has deep pockets!
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…this is the danger about becoming obsessed with a perceived principle…not only does the house of cards come tumbling down, but you are left hollow in the process.
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Firstly I hope she has deep pockets! How much longer does she and her paid supporters want to keep damaging the future of the children of this island?Gsce results some of the worst in the UK …fact, primary school reading ages worse than average …fact , these taken in isolation are enough for any senior officials to leave. Please, Carol to save any dignity for yourself and to leave the children with any hope of a future just stop it!
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Paul
Get your facts straight.
Mulkerrin left out the reading ages of 40% of Guernsey’s year 7s – FACT. In his analysis he only included the ages of those who had not passed 11+ therefore those whom by selection were determined to be mainly below average.
Guernsey’s GCSE results do not represent a like for like comparison with the UK – FACT. Mulkerrin devoted an entire page (page 11) to explaining this – he didn’t follow the terms of reference which asked him to compare with RELEVANT off island comparators (comparators – plural) – Jersey would have been the obvious choice.
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Carol dear – do stop shouting
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jack
Amazing that no one noticed “Carol” posting messages to your shout while she was speaking in the States yesterday! Perhaps this is a sign that she’s not me.
I suggest you take the red pill.
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Although I agree that the report is an opinion, it is an opinion based on facts. Mulkerrin went into each school interviewed the staff (away from the teachers) looked at the stats throughout the years (passed and present.) Interviewed the states members and employees. And sat in on lessons etc etc.
Carol Steer was put in a difficult situation, although the education dept is headed up by the minister (mst) they don`t have an overuling say on what each school does. They actually have to get a majority agreement, which is why CS probably feels so victimised.
Knowing the Press, things are often taken out of context and people are left clearing up the pieces afterwards. CS initially said she wouldn`t leave, but had to bow to public / media pressure, and is now out of a job, with most of the island blaming her for a situation which wasn`t totally her fault.
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Recent events have confirmed what I always believed, that this woman was inadequate and totally unqualified either to have been the Minister of the second largest spending department in the Bailiwick, or indeed a States Deputy. Perhaps it is she who should be the focus of an enquiry and certainly not the GEP!
I for one won’t miss her patronising, self-opinionated and cavalier attitude towards the electorate. Pity that she didn’t do the honourable thing and step down from the States, immediately, rather than hanging on to the bitter end!
GleP
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Spartacus
Is it possible that Mulkerrin interpreted “off island comparators” as UK and any other appropriate comparator. After all the Education Department had led us to believe that all was in comparison to the UK.
If the intent had been to compare with Jersey surely it would have said “other island comparators”
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Stephen John
I agree with your point that the education department have compared Guernsey results with UK results and that it is fair to refer to the UK however the fact remains that Mulkerrin explained in detail the problem with comparing our High schools with UK schools. There are 3 main advantages that England have:
1) The schools in UK are mainly comprehensives
2) The UK have an ICT course which boost results
3) The UK do not have our housing laws which affect teacher recruitment and retention.
Notwithstanding these disadvantages Guernsey overall has been ahead of the UK.
I don’t agree with your inference that the wording of the terms of reference is ambiguous. I believe the instruction was for Mulkerrin to select comparators which HE feels are relevant and that “off island” means off this island not “excluding any island”. It is uncanny that for 2011 Jersey had virtually identical results to Guernsey and no Guernsey based individuals can be held accountable for Jersey results. Mulkerrin doesn’t even mention this.
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It’s a pity Ms Steere had not been a stronger personality to enable her to stand up to the Director as he is the one that runs the show, not the minister. Not sure what she hopes to gain with her latest announcement but am sure we, the tax payer, will end up paying for it. I wish Spartacus would step away from their pc. I can only assume this poor, deluded person can only be a relative of, or indeed the Director/Minister themselves.
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Spartacus.
I’m going to asume from now on that that you are indeed Carol Steere. That doesn’t bother me one bit as many of us (including myself) use forum names so that we can say what we want to say knowing that we have the protection of anonymity.
I also understand that as a politician you very often can’t say what you really want to say publicly, so this forums is a great way for you to put your point of view across without disclosing your identity.
Unfortunatley, the problem that you find yourself in has been created by your complete denial of reality and truth and your inability to accept that sometimes in life people make mistakes which they have to take responsibility for and learn from. Yes the GP has put alot of focus and energy into ‘schoolgate’ but can they really be blamed for this when what they’ve actually done is expose the damning truth about an education system that for over a decade has permanently damaged the futures and chances of so many local children.
Forget any idea of a judicial review Carol, it’s never going to happen.
You made a mistake. Learn from it, get over it and move on.
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Agreed in thinking Spartacus is either Carol Steere or someone very close to Carol Steere as the amount of detail they are going into shows insider knowledge IMO.
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Toto
I chose the red pill! Everything I have said is from information in the public domain – but I have done my background reading and followed this story like a hawk. I’m appalled by the press attacks and how they have tried to justify their stance.
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Again. Newspapers worldwide are known for exaggerating stories and working stories to show particular individuals in a good/bad light, or is this news to you? I think you should calm down over fundamental features of an industry that your charming rants are not going to change any time soon.
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@CJS -
Fair points.
My frustration is due to the counterproductive effects of morale on teachers and pupils which has been ignored for the purpose of the propaganda.
John Lamb wrote a good letter to the press some time ago which hit the nail on the head.
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Forestgump
Any deputy who posts anonymously should be subject to conduct proceedings as it is very underhand.
In my humble opinion as nothing other than a parent – it is clear to me that the course of action deputy Steere has suggested would be wholly appropriate.
The rubbish you have regurgitated is excusable only because you have been brainwashed. Yes the Press are accountable.
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Forestgump
I too am convinced that Spartacus/Weasel is indeed Carol Steere.
On every one of these threads, there 95% of the comments defending here come from Spartacus/Weasel. And 95% of the other contributors are totally against her.
Carole – you have no support whatsoever and are a lone voice. Just accept it.
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GM
considering the rude abusive and mocking tone of many responses I have received, particularly from you, is it any surprise that other red pill takers have decided not to subject themselves to this vitriole?
Are you here for the debate or just to gloat with others about the downfall of others? If its debate you want then why try to drive off others who do not agree with you?
You know I’m not Carol Steere and who cares how many support her. A judicial review will sort out right from wrong and that’s the important thing.
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Spartacus
Sorry but I simply do not believe that you are not Carol Steere.
Its rather rich for you to comment on my postings in that way. “Kettle”, “pot” and “black” spring to mind.
Face reality and stop digging Carol – you are clearly on your own in terms of support for your position.
I don’t know about “Spartacus” as a pseudonym…King Canute would be more appropriate.
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Carol Steere didnt look very happy as she stamped up the road at Candie mid afternoon, i wondered why she was there as the states were sitting, as it was live on the radio, perhaps, she has decided not to wait until april and done a runner now!!
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There was an excellent letter in the press today from two retired head teachers. Decent human beings.
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I heard a snippet on the radio so if she had just had to listen to Dave Jones spouting forth about how he is lucky because his department is great – unlike some others, it would be no surprise if she looked annoyed. Dave Jones have some respect for your position.
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Mr Neale. Bring it on. As a parent of a child who was a victim of your policies I can only hope the tax payer writes you a cheque for six months wages to get rid once and for all.
It’ll be the best £60,000 we’ve spent in a long time.
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Can someone answer a question for me?
If the Mulkerrin report is full of holes, is one man’s opinion, does not show any failings or cover ups, why are the Education Board crowing about implementing Mulkerrin’s recommendations?
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Frankie,
They are going along with it. It is a delicate political situation. Don’t forget they have not yet responded to the policy council but the press reports are steamrollering on in the usual manner. They have already implemented the things which can be implemented. They can’t implement LMS and changes to teacher recruitment because the education law and the housing law would need to change first and that is not their decision. The excellent teacher scheme is flawed for many reasons which Sean McManus highlighted – it won’t get off the ground.
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Spartacus, sorry Carol.
I think a deputy posting anonymously (like yourself) is the least of anyones worries at the moment and if anyone should be subject to conduct proceedings right now it should be Derek Neale – the man you continually try to defend.
How you can defend this man and his departments failings is beyond me and I think most rational minded islanders. I swear, if I asked you what colour a blackboard was you’d tell me it was white if it didn’t suit your warped view of reality in ‘Carol world’. As far as me being ‘brainwashed’? I know the air is a bit thinner up here in the Forest but I think it is more likely that I missed out on the special 3D ‘CAROLVISION’ glasses being handed out at the last elections.
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forestgump
It is not for me to defend or criticise anyone. I’m just looking at the facts rather than believing everything I read in the newspaper.
I’m sure a judicial review would be in a position to ascertain whether any accusation against Derek Neale’s conduct is valid or invalid.
In the meantime just remember it is your choice to keep taking the blue pill.
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Carol. (spartacus)
“It’s not for me to defend or criticise anyone”
You’ve been trying to defend yourself and Derek Neale on this forum and very publicly since the whole ‘schoolgate’ affair unfolded and have been extremely critical of anyone who dared to venture an alternative opinion to yours.
I watched you on Channel TV a week or so ago and it was obvious then as it is now, that you are simply incapable of accepting that the department that you were minister of has caused permanent and serious damage to hundreds of Guernsey children. What have you got to say about that?
I suppose you are going to tell me that you haven’t failed them (IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS) and that everything is great and wonderful. You continually bang on about the process of this enquiry and conveniently avoid the truth.
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What have I got to say about that? Keep taking the blue pill and believe whatever you want.
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It occurred to me that had Guernsey’s education system and results been compared with European countries such as France or even Latvia, we could have come out even worse. We now have many people originating from Latvia in our community and from those I have worked with, they appear to me to be very well educated, bright and motivated.
Perhaps Guernsey should be looking towards it’s closest geographical neighbour France in matters of education and health. The UK’s record in both these does not exactly “set the World on fire”!
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Spartacus – you seem to be very close to a well known failed Minister of Education/Peoples’ Deputy. You seem able to articulate her views so rapidly. Could it be that you have a hot-line with an old,faded red telephone?
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Graham
LOL perhaps its telepathy or just the effects of the red pill I took. People’s deputy is right.
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How many failed MoE’s have we had?
Perhaps he was correct then Spartacus
As a Deputy I’m not sure CS is a failure
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Graham
I think that this person/spokeswoman is from the Education PR department in the Grange.The detail that comes out in her? postings is too great to be anyone other than an Education PR civil servant. I kid you not!!
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Sparty
Two things 1. You’re rumbled. Until the latest hooha, a google for Mr Neale drew nothing critical. Hmmm… A lot of effort goes into massaging search engine optimisation. A lot of effort goes into your Sparty strikes back approach. About 16 hours a day, I’d say.
2. Judicial review bites on decisions of government bodies and whether they should be overturned or not. Mr Neales performance doesn’t enter into it. Your understanding of the process is as developed as, er, Deputy Steeres and whoever ‘advised’ her…
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The irony of all this of course is that the Guernsey Press probably know exactly who Spartacus is! I do wish he/she would stop going on and that Carol Steere would just keep quiet and retain some morsel of humility. The schools and the children are the ones suffering in this continued debate and the teachers are having to pick up the pieces. My child goes to St Sampson’s and I am extremely impressed with the whole school and the teachers help and attitude.
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Spartacus
Post 20 You clearly weren’t listening closely enough.
What I said was that in the 12 years I have been a Deputy I have been blessed with the high calibre of civil servants at the Housing department, which has in turn led to much of our success.
I went on to say that there are some Civil servants that clearly don’t make the grade and it is up to the Chief Executive of the States who is head of the Civil service to get a grip on those who are under performing and move them on, not leave it to Deputies whose job it is not.
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Dave Jones
I have a lot of respect for you and admire how hard you work and for coming on this forum regularly to connect, even though you get a lot of stick from people. I apologise in advance for the forthcoming rant. Spartacus haters need not read further.
I cannot tell you how much you have disappointed me this week. I was listening – Clearly don’t make the grade? are you telling me you were not referring to Derek Neale? Feel free to say so if you feel he HAS been supervised properly and deserves to remain in the service, following immense speculation, criticism, public humiliation, legal advice, various reviews and changes in job description etc etc. Your silence otherwise would speak volumes because you know the code of conduct and it is debatable that you have already breached it.
Your department has had 100% success has it? how do you measure that exactly? How do YOU measure who has made the grade in other departments?
I’m very sorry to have overheard what sounded like unscrupulous populist campaigning by someone who has been a major player in our government for long enough to have had plenty of opportunity to help shape the way civil servants are appraised.
How is Derek Neale supposed to stand up for himself? Do you think Deputy Steere will succeed with her request for a judicial review? (will you support one?) and if not is a public enquiry in order? After all the principles at stake here will affect every civil servant and deputy so heaven help any of the perfect specimens in your department if they should happen to have a mishap.
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Spartacus
I was referring to those civil servants who I have come across in my 12 years working inside government who have on occasions been belligerent, obstructive and in some cases downright incompetent.
All the words I used in my speech. You seem obsessed with the previous Director of Education, I am not and the point I was trying to make is that as a Deputy when we direct our concerns about any CS staff to the Chief Executive of the States, then we expect him and other senior staff to act on it. He gets paid the salary, has the office and the responsibility, it is his job as head of the civil service. Getting a grip at the top I described it as. If after investigating any particular case he finds there is no case to answer, then so be it but he must be prepared to look at any concerns in the first place.
The code of conduct does not prevent me from making the comments I made in the States assembly, that is where we debate such things and I am quite happy to fight my corner on that particular point in any arena.
I guess by your comments and several of your previous posts that you are a Civil servant, from my experience there are always howls of protest when we blow some of the dust and cobwebs away from what goes on inside the civil service and the first defence is always that the they have no right of reply, well I would suggest that is what their Civil Service reps are supposed to do.
As for Housing, of course it hasn’t been 100% successful and I have NEVER maintained it has been, read my post again. As to how we measure it? Well I would have thought that was obvious by comparing the state of Social housing now to what it was only a few years ago, together with huge improvements in our tenancy agreements and the relationship between housing staff and tenants. On the Housing control side, much better liaison with employers than we had in the past a quicker turn around on applications, letters that are much clearer in their content, all kinds of improvements that have helped produce a better service to the public. I have been trying to get changes made in the Civil service since Laurie Morgan was CM and announced their would be a review, so don’t tell me it is unscrupulous populist campaigning it is our job as the employer and I have several letters on file to senior Civil servants going back many years trying to get improvements. As for any Judicial Review, it is not for me to comment on that point, you must ask those who are interested in bringing such a review for their comments.
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Dave Jones
I have to say that is rather strange to suggest I am obsessed with the Director of education. This Press article, Carol Steere’s proposed legal action and indeed the debate we are having centres on the mistreatment of the Director of Education. Your feelings on the matter are crystal clear and in my opinion they are both populist and unscrupulous and I am at liberty to state my opinion.
Quite right that deputies should state their concerns to the Chief executive but there are rules (and indeed laws) in place which he has to follow and you along with many others seem to find that a bit inconvenient. Rather than accept this and put your “feelings” to one side, it is easier to criticise him too.
Actually Dave Jones you are a deputy and in your capacity as my representative I have asked you seven questions in my post and in the typical cliched manner of a politician you have answered only one of them, which is to sing about the successes of your department.
So what are the problem areas in your department? What areas have failed to achieve targets, which staff members have let you down and what could you have done better? Not going to tell me? No of course not, you are going to hide these things in a veil of secrecy (as the Press would say).
I’m not asking those who are interested in bringing a judicial review for their comments because I understand their rationale. There are question marks in relation to the Mulkerrin review, the Press reporting and the criticisms of Derek Neale and Mike Brown by Deputies. I am asking YOU if you will support the proposal to get to the bottom of this so that the public can be sure of what is right and wrong because this is a matter of great public interest.
So will you support action by the policy council to get to the bottom of these concerns?
You can refuse to answer this question if you wish or say no secure in the knowledge that my viewpoint is probably outnumbered, but unless you support action to resolve Carol Steere’s concerns I will remain disappointed that you are avoiding a matter which I deem to be your duty to the people of Guernsey.
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Dave Jones
I can assure you I am NOT a civil servant. I have chosen to be anonymous primarily because I am a parent of a child at LMDC, remaining anonymous has allowed me to be forthright in my honest opinions.
I am a finance professional, not Carol Steere, Derek Neale or anyone connected to them. I have never met you, them or anyone connected with this story, except Mr Mulkerrin, Mr Wheeler and some of the teachers.
I feel passionately about the effect all the bad publicity has had on the school, I have heard about children feeling defensive, put down, let down, teased. I have heard about teachers off sick with stress, complaining about the press, the government handling of this, the lack of funding and lack of proper staffing.
The government have made a mess of things but I don’t blame carol Steere I blame those who chose to retain 11+ and those who feel it is ok to now publish the High schools results. There are clearly many ulterior motives here and what’s best for the kids has not even been an agenda item in this political war.
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Spartacus
You are wholly unconvincing re your identity and your profession.
In what capacity would you have been interviewed by Mulkerrin?
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GM
I was interviewed by Mulkerrin in my capacity as a parent.
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Sparticus
Here is one such l;etter written in 2007.
September 11th 2007
As a serving Minister in this administration I can tell you that it is exceedingly difficult to bring about changes in the Civil Service. It is a huge machine that has its own unique internal structure, rules and convention that in many ways prevents any real threat to its composition.
We are all well aware at this present time that a complete review of the Civil Service is currently under way. A good thing I hear you say, well it could be, except It is not helped I would suggest, by having appointed senior civil servants to carry out this review, who with the best will in the world have a clear vested interest in seeing that little does change?
That is in no way questioning the integrity of those responsible for carrying out any reform, It is simply pointing out that the review ought to be completely independent of the Civil Service. I work alongside some first class civil servants, some who work wretchedly long hours for precious little reward or recognition at times.
The trouble is the whole thing in my view is far too incestuous from the get go.
First golden rule to avoid change is, If you don’t want too much change in anything, then make sure that you keep control of the process, and If that isn’t true, then why hasn’t this radical shake up that we are assured is now taking place, been done years ago?
There have been some notable changes of late, but they all seem to have been shifting senior posts around and upgrading at least one of those posts for reasons I am still unsure of. The Chief Executive now has an assistant which we were informed at P.C by the Staff Steering Group was absolutely vital for future efficiency, although personally I would have liked to know and I suspect many other Deputies would also like to know what the Chief Executives present workload is, because unless you do it is impossible for any one individual States member, to judge whether a highly paid assistant was really necessary or not, given the not insignificant salary that goes with the job.
Now while I am pleased reform is underway, I am also at a loss to understand why the head of the civil service together with the head of Human Resources could not have implemented many of the proposed changes at anytime during their long service in theses two top positions? There is no doubt that radical reform is needed, myself and other Ministers are aware of several Spanish practices that go on within the Civil Service that should be ended immediately, of course they cannot, because in order to make changes you have to first get agreement from the various Civil Service unions, which I think, is a quite absurd situation.
Now I am not saying for one moment that the unions should not be involved in talks about changes but I am somewhat irritated that we apparently can’t introduce the radical reforms that are so badly needed, because of historical practices and agreements that are no longer relevant in this modern age and are used to prevent it from happening. How did we ever get into the position where the Civil Service became so unionised? So iron clad, that it is almost impossible for the employer, that is the States of Guernsey to make swift and necessary changes in order to deliver to the taxpayer better value for money.
One example of this crippling inertia, is our inability when necessary to advertise for posts outside the Civil Service as a matter of right, all jobs must be advertised from within the service in the first instance.
Now in fairness I can see that there is some merit in that, as it allows those who want to move to different departments and different positions to do so, which aide’s promotion within the service and allows employees to move up the pay grades. Unfortunately this ability to change horses at will, leads to a fair amount of internal chaos within the service, more on that later.
Where it also doesn’t help, is when you want the very best person for the job and you find yourself perhaps lowering your sights because the alternative would be to go outside the service, which of course is not what the unions want. What happens for instance if you only get one candidate for the job who is considered to be unsuitable? If my department found ourselves in that position we could not advertise the post outside until the whole time wasting process of interviewing the unsuitable candidate had taken place, if we did, the unions would see that as breaking a long standing agreement the States has with them on the issue. If we decided not to go through the farce of interviewing the unsuitable candidate and insisted on advertising outside, it could result I am reliably informed, in the Union registering a dispute. It is a structure more akin to 70’s Britain than Guernsey 2007.
Of course there are a few jobs that will be advertised outside and the States Treasurer is one that springs to mind, also jobs for senior planner’s and technicians in the health service where it is clear it would be hard to fill them from local applicants even if you could find any with the suitable qualifications in the first place. But to all intense and purposes it is very much a closed shop. Also because of the way things have always been done we end up in bizarre situations where H.R will interview a senior member of staff from one department who may be in an absolute pivotal position and vital to the efficient running of that department, who having seen an internal advert for a job at a higher grade elsewhere applies for it, if the applicant is successful at interview and promoted to the position within the States, it can often leave the department that previously they were employed by floundering because there maybe no natural successor to move up and you will quickly find that H.R have made no provision to substitute that member of staff with a suitable replacement.
When I complained about this I was told, “that’s the way system works” “We can’t stop people wanting to progress their careers from moving on” Fine but it is not my job either to juggle the department to make sure we can still deliver an acceptable service because of an employment system that snatches key employees away when it suits. Not only does it leave us instantly short staffed but that in turn puts pressure on the other staff as there workload increases leading to stress and poor morale. We do need to have within the structure some kind of safety net that doesn’t leave gaping hols in the management structure of individual departments.
The other major problem is that there is no continuity, a department can spend a huge number of hours training people into their role only to loose them when another job comes up internally a week or so later, leaving the department having to go back to square one and start the training cycle all over again. How can any department give a first class service when you have no idea how long your staff will stay? Or whether you are training them for nothing and because of this system, in some of the lower paid grades, the turnover is horrendous.
We have a golden opportunity now to look at the whole issue of central Human Resources the current senior officer is moving on and that post should not be filled until we have looked at whether we need to keep that department at all, or whether it would be better to allow individual departments to continue to take care of their own staffing levels inside a strict budget. That at least would address some of the duplication that goes on at this present time.
Deputy Dave Jones
Housing Minister.
Since this letter was written there have been some improvments in the way things are managed but we still have a way to go.
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Dave Jones
Thank you for showing me this letter, I do appreciate that you are being open in demonstrating your efforts to bring about changes. You have some valid points and I’m not disputing that.
However as a layperson I didn’t understand all that was said in your letter and I don’t know who it was addressed to. Therefore, it sounded a bit like a letter complaining to God for causing clouds on the day you planned to have a picnic. In other words, some of the problems you raise are simply facts of life.
Everyone cares that our civil service is run efficiently and is value for money but it is easy to forget the nature and purpose of laws and the position of the unions comes into that. The problems are similar for all jurisdiction this is not a Guernsey specific problem. What can be changed for the better should be changed but things will never be perfect and many of the problems simply do not have an easy answer. The thrust of my argument in this whole debate is that civil servants are not Gods and cannot control the clouds.
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It was an open letter to the Press after several private talks and correspondence with people at the top of the CS who did not seem to me to be overly interested in getting any review into the CS moving anytime soon.
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AS to your other question, I am ahead of you as I went to see Mike Brown recently to discuss the way ahead.
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Dave Jones
I’m just checking that your post no 32 was in connection with my question about supporting the policy council to get to the bottom of the Derek Neale matter.
If so, this is reassuring because I am utterly convinced that Derek Neale did not embark on a career in education intent on ruining children’s lives. I’m convinced he took the job of director of education with the belief that he would give it his all and I’m sure those who put him in this position felt confident that they had the best man for the job.
What has happened this past year has not been adequately analysed or explained by Mulkerrin. I for one still have more questions than answers. For example what did the High school results look like before Neale was on board. What will the results be this year and what, in his expert opinion, taking all factors into account, is an appropriate benchmark for Guernsey High schools?
If Neale has failed to meet the minimum criteria of his specific objectives then that is one factor which should be clear to his line manager and therefore clear to the policy council. If there is a disagreement between his line manager and policy council then they need to have an enquiry or second opinion/judicial review call it what you like. Whatever is done needs to be fair, objective and follow the letter of the law as well as providing Neale with a mechanism for defence. Mulkerrin’s criticisms are not appropriate in this regard.
I feel very uncomfortable living in a society which accepts public criticism and humiliation of an individual who has evidently worked tirelessly towards the good of education for many many years and has been beleaguered by the public response to a trial by Press speculation. This is not right.
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My, my, Sparty, there you go again. Subtly deflecting the issue, putting posters off message and trying to mask the real issue…
Where did you learn your manipulative skills, I wonder?
As Mulkerrin started his report, ‘The poor GCSE results at La Mare de Carteret and St Sampson‟s High schools are a symptom of a larger problem in the management and structure of education in Guernsey.
‘These results should not have come as a surprise…’
So, Spartynealeus, where do you think responsibility for this should rest?
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Hey definitely not sparty
Do you think perhaps that one of the omissions of Mulkerrin’s report was “The excellent GCSE results of the Colleges, Les Beaucamps High and the Grammar schools are a symptom of a non existent problem in the management and structure of education in Guernsey.” Are these results a surprise?
Responsibility should rest with whoever refused to allow the St PP kids to be sent to College and Grammar obviously.
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Spartacus, may I ask how on earth you find the time, as a parent, to partake in this online debate as you must spend most of your waking hours reading and responding to the few participants on this forum!! As you appear to have alot of time on your hands and are clearly an intelligent individual how about you endeavour to set up a PTA at LMDC which I believe they do not currently have. I think this would be a huge benefit to the moral boosting of this school – which has many many fine pupils and teachers. You clearly have good written communication skills and passion for your cause so go for it……. there must be many other willing parents out there who would be keen to get on board as well as teachers to provide guidance and ideas.
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Parent,
thank you for enquiring about my time management skills and other compliments – in response I can advise that I don’t watch eastenders or coronation street and I know people who devote more time to those types of activities than I do to this debate!
I have enquired about PTA and have been told it is in hand, if I am able to help with anything I will and I agree the school has many qualities which have been downplayed by the media.
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Spartacus
You express an admirable concern for the fair treatment of senior States employees.
You similarly, and entirely uderstandably, demonstrate genuine concern for the consequences of negative publicity upon those associated with LMDC Sec School. (I declare an interest as a former member of staff at the school.)
To date you have yet to explore the extent to which the two are linked. I raise this because I believe that Mr Mulkerrin’s final report was informed by contributions from both central Education Dep’t sources and individual schools. Indeed, Mr Mulkerrin met with staff members at each of the state secondary schools (including the Grammar Sch.) I would suggest that it might be unwise for any of us to assume that all these contributors were of one mind.
Some observers might be inclined to the view that Mr Mulkerrin’s recommendation re. LMS cannot be entirely divorced from perceptions about tensions between some senior voices in the central bureaucracy and those at the delivery end in the schools.
Of course everyone claims to have the best interests of the pupils in mind. That said, and this could apply to any government department, the way policy decisions are made, managed and implemented is dependent not only the quality of the structures but also (and crucially) upon the quality and the sensitivity of the management personnel involved at all levels.
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Sean McManus
Its good to hear from you.
I have reservations about LMS but as a layman I don’t have enough knowledge to debate its merits properly. I’m willing to try though! When I googled it I found positive and negative comments. When Carol Steere was on the radio she implied that Mulkerrin was intent from the outset on pushing this through for Guernsey. If Mulkerrin was therefore not open to opposing opinions that would be a shame because it seems it would be an enormous change for Guernsey and therefore I feel the education board and policy council should proceed with caution.
I would be very concerned at present if LMS went ahead. For example it is hard to imagine the Grammar results would improve as a result of this change so why would others? As far as efficiency and budgeting goes I do not see the logic in LMS. Also, devolving power and responsibility to heads who have not delivered expectations for whatever reasons seems unwise at the present time and would perhaps give the education department and board less accountability and more reason to blame the schools for any problems.
I don’t believe that LMS will speed up the teacher recruitment process as I have seen no evidence that the education department slows the process down. I believe the housing policy causes delay due to the requirement to advertise locally. As for spending where its needed on teaching assistants and so on – the basic fact is that the High schools receive approx £2K per child per year less than grammar and college and that is the problem.
In short my gut instinct is that LMS is a protocol which should only be considered in conjunction with with abolition of 11+ and should only be introduced following several years of careful benchmarking and measurement of standards of our High schools. I believe stabilisation and improvement will occur without LMS.
Am I right in understanding that LMS cannot happen until the law is changed? If that is the case I believe consultations should be happening now well in advance of any change and the teachers and money experts should be the ones who should be listened to. They should be very sure it is right for Guernsey. Lots of things are changing which will affect the schools, such as the management of education, the politicians, the population policy. We should perhaps wait and see how other things impact.
Please put me straight if I have got any facts wrong – most contributers do however hopefully you will be more polite than most!
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Spartacus,
It is not the requirement to advertise locally which is slowing down the teacher recruitment process, it is the layers of breaucracy in the Education Department. I have pointed out to you that Elizabeth College is already advertising for staff in September. I am sure that between the Grammar school and three high schools there will be known vacancies for September (retirements, licences ending, newly created posts etc) but there is no sign of these being advertised. It means that E. Coll. will have the pick of the maths and geography teachers – good luck to them!
I am convinced that a Guernsey version of LMS is needed as it is a much more efficient way of running the service. It probably doesn’t need a change in the law, as one of the weaknesses in the present law is that it gives the Education Dept the freedom to do almost whatever it chooses. However it will take a great deal of work and extensive consultation to make it happen.
With regard to your second paragraph, there is no place in any school for a poor headteacher, whether or not there is LMS.
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grumpy teacher
check your facts please! there was an ad dated 12 jan for a grammar maths teacher to start in Sept also there is a current ad running for a PE teacher to start in Sept
http://www.education.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=5210&p=0
Regarding LMS, other than the recruitment matter which we disagree on as per my evidence attached, what efficiency would you hope it would bring?
May I ask how you rate Mr Wheeler?
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Spartacus, you have a point, but have you noticed that the posts are Heads of Department on 15 year licences? There are no ads for basic grade teachers. The Elizabeth College jobs are basic grade posts suitable for newly qualified teachers. I would ask the Department, if HOD jobs can be advertised now, why not advertise jobs suitable for our students who are due to qualify as teachers this summer?
I don’t know enough about Ken Wheeler and even if I did I would not use the anonymity of this forum to criticise him. (Politicians and DN are fair game.) He also might feel, like Jeff Smith, that he is running the school with one hand tied behind his back.
I don’t want to sound patronising but I would point out that it is not up to Mr Wheeler to start a PTA and its not his fault if the school doesn’t have one. You just need his permission to send out a letter inviting anyone interested to attend an inaugural meeting of the LMDC PTA. Then get some of your mates to get some wine and nibbles together to make everyone feel welcome. You could have it all set up by half term! Go for it!!!
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Grumpy teacher
You say there are no ads for basic grade teachers but you are wrong – here is an add for a PE teacher and they must have got their act together some time ago because they say there is in principle approval for a 5 year license so license holders can now apply.
http://www.education.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=5472&p=0
There are also several vacancies for temporary teaching posts up to 31 August which implies there are places already filled by teachers starting in September.
Regarding the PTA, please stop patronising me you are clearly very ignorant about this. I have been told to wait and assume other parents are in the same boat.
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This is not a job for a basic grade teacher. It is for subject co-ordinator and carries a management allowance. My point above still stands.
This debate is nothing to do with housing laws. Elizabeth College has to abide by housing laws too and it doesn’t hold them back.
With regard to PTAs, I have been involved throughout my teaching career, both as a teacher and a parent, in nine different schools here and in England. I question on what grounds you think I am ignorant of these matters? If I was a parent at LMDC I would see the setting up of a PTA as a positive story to counteract all the recent bad publicity and I would be asking the school why, exactly, I was being made to wait.
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grumpy teacher
Oh I see – I wouldn’t know I was looking for a 5 year license post, nevertheless have you perhaps overlooked that the basic grade positions have already been filled as evidenced by the need for temporary staff for those positions up until 31st August? I remain of the opinion that the advantages of the colleges relate to their funds.
Thanks for all your well meaning advice regarding PTAs I will take that on board. For privacy reasons I do not intend to give any updates on my involvement.
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Spartacus
My prodigality arises as a consequence of the many other demands upon my time. Although many claim that being a Deputy is not a full-time job, I can assure you that the demands of the role do not sit readily with alternative forms of employment. (I accept that others may simply put this town to poor time management on my part.)
Like “excellent teacher” schemes and “failing” education systems, the term LMS can mean different things to different people. Surely the key consideration for Guernsey is to design a format which is tailored to local needs. Mr Mulkerrin identified some of those needs re. the secondary sector but I see no reason to limit our consideration merely to the contents of his report. As you infer, some schools might benefit more than others from any generalised scheme. A law change would be required in my view.
The requirement to advertise teaching posts locally is certainly in part to limit the infux of those who might deprive local teachers and future teachers of employment opportunities. I would like to see a more effective succession planning regime adopted by the Education Dep’t and I welcome attempts to recruit and to retain and promote those with an understanding of our culture. However, this should not be at the expense of excellence. I am aware that some teachers attest to claims that they have been “promised” extensions to their housing licences by those who cannot deliver upon such promises. I am also aware that some such teachers have believed that extension applications would be submitted to Housing on their behalf. Experience leads me to suggest that such teachers would be wise to regard such “promises” and “assurances” as the triumph of hope over expectation.
Teacher recruitment could be speeded up with or without an LMS system. This could be a “quick win” for the new Ed board.
I was intrigued that your interesting post did not attempt to deal with the management issues I alluded to earlier.
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Sean McManus
As you have previously intimated the excellent teacher scheme is flawed on several levels so the problem of attracting and retaining excellence is not yet solved.
I am interested in your ideas about succession planning because this is something Dave Jones has also complained about and I must admit, as an observer I do not understand what more is expected of the education department.
Vacancies arise in 3 ways – 1) a teacher’s license expires 2) a teacher leaves with normal notice period 3) a teacher leaves instantly.
For all scenarios the housing law requirement entails demonstrating that no local is available to fill the position before attempting to recruit from further afield. I’m not sure how far in advance the process for each scenario can be undertaken. What more can be done in your opinion? How would LMS speed this up?
Regarding the management issues you alluded to, I’m sorry i didn’t broach this and again I must admit that I am merely an observer and I have nothing other than press reports and speculation to indicate that this is a problem, therefore my perceptions could be flawed.
As I have explained I am sceptical that LMS is a solution to poor results and I am equally sceptical that LMS is a solution to tensions, disputes, resentment and low morale which is perceived to be caused by the divided roles of central bureaucracy and the schools.
You refer to quality and sensitivity of management personnel and in my business experience in the private sector the two attributes rarely go hand in hand. The most effective managers I have worked with have often been ruthless and insensitive and resented by their subordinates. I have seen many sensitive and much loved managers fail dismally in hitting the bottom line targets. Over the years I have come to accept this as a fact of life.
I believe the best way to improve morale in schools is through encouraging and acknowledging success and delivering justifiable praise at every level. If schools had realistically attainable targets it would be an enormous benefit. Being publicly and unfairly criticised for failing to reach UK benchmarks must be very frustrating, upsetting and cause a defensive position to be taken up. This must cause confusion which exacerbates the blame culture.
It is apparent that mistakes have been made in managing expectations at every level. Public anger is therefore understandable but perhaps not entirely fair.
To correct this going forward I would like Mulkerrin to set new academic targets for all schools taking into account all the factors and problems he has investigated. These figures must be realistic. 35% is the UK benchmark which includes many advantages which Guernsey High schools do not enjoy.
As Mulkerrin is lauded as the hero of the hour, his opinion on this, as negotiated and agree with the heads, would be accepted by the public. Hopefully this would mitigate the damaging tendency the media have of comparing Guernsey results with the UK and consequently branding Guernsey as an almighty failure.
What do you think the benchmark for Guernsey High schools should be for this year?
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Spartacus
How many parents were interviewed by Mulkerrin? Was that the sole capacity or one of several capacities in which you were interviewed?
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GM
I have no idea how many parents he interviewed you would have to ask him. Yes that was the only capacity, one parent of one child at one school no other capacity whatsoever.
May I ask what capacity connects you to this debate?
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Spartacus
My capacity is (a) as a taxpayer who cares, (b) as a parent of a child who finished their education 6 years ago, and (c) as somebody who still does not believe that you are not Carol Steere.
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GM
re point b) You previously stated on 5 jan at 10.04am that “my only child had a fee paid College education from aged 7 to 18, that ended nearly 10 years ago and I have have had no child in the system since then” You said this in order to argue that your child left school before subsidies of the colleges began.
Did you lie about the timeframe to embellish your denial that your child benefited from a state subsidised college education?
I cannot prove to you that I am not Carol Steere but there is absolutely no reason to suggest that I am a liar.
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Spartacus,
Local Management of Schools (LMS) means that the key decisions about how the school is run are made by the school. For example, a teacher retires and the school may decide to employ two teaching assistants instead. Or, the school might invest in a new clock for the boiler, saving £5000 a year on oil which could then be spent on library books etc. At the moment every strategic decision is taken behind closed doors in the Education Department and there are no incentives for schools to be run efficiently.
There are many different models of LMS and the key will be to find one that is right for Guernsey. I feel very optimistic that the new Chief Officer, together with the new minister who has a business background, will be able to come up with something suitable. There are some functions which should be retained centrally but the key is to devolve decision making out to schools and let the schools reap the benefit of any economies. Mulkerrin explains this in detail P 30-32.
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grumpy teacher
Your comment implying that within the current system “there are no incentives for schools to be run efficiently” is nonsense.
The example you use of a new clock for the boiler is contrary to Mulkerrin’s suggestions of retaining capital expenditure as a central function (p31).
The example you use of a retiring teacher being replaced by two teaching assistants is puzzling.
On p31 Mulkerrin states that LMS
“Allows Headteachers and Governing Bodies to appoint their own teachers and thus compete on the same level playing field as schools in the UK”. This is of course wrong. LMS does not overcome 1) Guernsey’s housing laws which deters newcomers 2) Our selective system which is unfamiliar to UK teachers
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One question that hasn’t been asked yet, please correct me if I am wrong.
Did I hear or read Carol Steere say her son went to Les Beaucamp School?
As Carol lives in St Peter Port, ( Victoria Road ) I assume that he previously went to St Peter Port School.
Why then does he go to Les Beaucamp when they live in the LMDC catchment area?
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Spartacus
I stopped paying school fees 7 years ago. For around 11 years I paid school fees knowing that Blanchelande was receiving no subsidy from the States. If memory serves me correctly, it was not until my daughter’s last year in around 2005 when the decision was made to subsidise Blanchelande. My school fees did not get reduced as a result.
There is a very good reason why you cannot prove that you are not Carol Steere.
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GM
6 years 7 years, 10 years – I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I’m not Carol Steere and have tried to prove it by repeatedly posting when she is known to have been doing other things. I do seem to share her ethics and ideals however she might not agree with all I have to say. I do not claim to have her inside knowledge or expertise therefore I would not want anyone to be mislead due to mistaken identity.
If you wish to continue trying to undermine my argument in this way this is your prerogative but what can I do? I can only try to reassure you that my thoughts are independent and you have to accept this or disregard my views as being biased. Its up to you. Unless Carol Steere starts participating here and confirms that she isn’t Spartacus there is no more I can do.
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Spartnealeus
Alas not. The colleges are spared the grip of Grange House and embrace LMS, Les Beaucamps’ head resists it and as for the Grammar, what was it Jeff Smith said after he’d left…
“One of the reasons that I resigned from my position as Headteacher of the Grammar School was because of the lack of autonomy in managing the school in the crucial area of staffing. As the Headteacher, I should have full control in the recruitment, management and retention of staff. I am then fully accountable for the standards of teaching and the quality of provision in the school.”
And re your mate Spartysteereus harping on about housing licences, there’s nothing to stop any employer advertising locally and nationally at the same time and recruiting the best.
Not even Housing insists on forcing poor performers on an organisation.
Another spartymyth debunked
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I admire your efforts to debunk myths because that is exactly what I’m doing! You may have to try a little harder to convince Sparty though…
1) Jeff Smith left Grammar having achieved a 100% success rate. I can see why he was miffed that he was not able to take full credit for this outstanding success. However I don’t think that was why he left.
2) You need to look at the Housing law to see that evidence needs to be produced that proves no local is available before a licence can be granted. Past performance is subjective but the law must be objective. If the applicant is qualified, the performance can be enhanced by teacher development.
Mulkerrin tells us trying to recruit a non local costs £20K which would be a bit of a waste of money if it can’t be proved to housing that there is no local.
3) The colleges have plenty of money which is one of the mysterious secrets of their success, although I can see that it is easy to confuse this simple fact with a perceived advantage of LMS.
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Spartacus and others seem interested in the link between succession planning and LMS.
Mr Mulkerrin’s comments reflect concerns expressed at school level that the recruitment process is too slow and too bureaucratic. LMS will not automatically render the process more effecient; that would initially depend upon the capabilities and resources available at school level. Readers should not assume that all school senior managers are equally competent. However, if school governors or the Education Dep’t set key performance indicators in this area it may certainly concentrate minds. The expectation is that where the outcome matters to the individual school, progress will be quicker than if the process is handled centrally by those who have less of a stake in the outcome.
This will raise key issues about the funding of recruitment and of the composition of interview panels which have often been heavily influenced by the Ed Dep’t; especially for more senior posts.
Are we to believe that each school will henceforth deal separately with Housing on licence applications for as long as the current laws apply? Again, do not expect every case to be smooth.
Schools should be keenly aware of their need for effective succession planning. They will be only too aware of expected retirements, promotions and licence expiries and should be able to advertise in a timely fashion. Mr Mulkerrin is absolutely right to infer that the early bird catches the worm. That said, I would expect there to be a more effective central log of Guernsey students in training in the UK as well as locally and also such a log of locals wishing to return to teach in Guernsey. Those on the log could be automatic recipients of local job developments in order to speed up the application and interview process. As regards expected promotion openings, the performance management arrangements could be tailored to more effectively prepare local teachers for taking on additional responsibilities… thus overcoming widespread perceptions of a glass ceiling for local staff.
I hope readers regard this as a constructive contribution to the ongoing debate.
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Sean McManus
Your comments on succession planning and the proposed log of Guernsey trainees are very interesting. If this is not already happening it should be implemented immediately! I also believe that Guernsey teachers should be able to rise to the challenge of external competition and must be given every opportunity to enhance their skills and experience as you suggest. Guernsey is a very small job market for teachers and this should be well understood as a serious issue.
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My worry in all this debate is that we will take a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
From the evidence we have there are some areas of basic learning in some schools that need addressing.
If we look at a typical GCSE Maths papaer http://store.aqa.org.uk/qual/gcse/qp-ms/AQA-43601F-W-QP-MAR11.PDF we see just how basic these questions are. We know that other secondary schools manage to teach the subject well.
If we bother to look at the Ofsted reports at Mulkerrin’s former school it is significant that even in a top performing school, innovative learning approaches are still being developed and used on a daily basis.
The answer to the basic learning problem is in the classroom. If Sillars and Buckland feel that the answer is in structure and systems then educational performance will still struggle.
The learning issues are different from the managemment style of Neale and its consequences, and the remedies are different – to convert teaching into learning in those areas where it is needed.
LMS, succession planning and performance targets all sound nice but what counts is what happens to the learning experience in the classroom.
Are the teachers up to the challenge?
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The first words in Mulkerrin’s summary are:
‘The poor GCSE results at La Mare de Carteret and St Sampson’s High schools are a symptom of a larger problem in the management and structure of education in Guernsey.’
What if the answer to your final question is ‘no, the teachers aren’t up the challenge’? In that case, it’s clear that the current system is not putting the right people in the post of teacher. What do you suggest as a solution, if not some kind of systemic change?
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@ChrisJ
I’ll eat Jeremy Steere’s hat if the excellent teacher scheme gets off the ground.
If you can’t import and retain the best teachers due to the housing laws then the solution must be to provide incentives and development opportunities for locals. Funding required!
This problem is not specific to education and it is therefore an unfair criticism in my opinion. The skills strategy group should be contributing to the solutions at this stage.
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The Grammar and Colleges are subject to the same housing laws and they still obtain great results so best look at these schools to see what they do and copy them. Its easy to copy something that already works – difficult to implement something that hasn’t been tried before and not everyone is supportive of.
In regards to development opportunities for locals I believe this should tie in with university funding/grants. I have stated in previous forums that grants should only be accepted by a student on the proviso that they work for an allocated period in Guernsey within say 10 years of completing their course (or pay back the money in full). Of course if they have bad references and don’t make the grade for what we want in a teacher (or other) then we may not ask them to come back at all.
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Spartacus
Do I take it that you are not Jeremy Steere, or did you mean you will eat your hat?
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Stephen John
This is bad!
How can they be failing this?
This is BASIC arithmetic, if we can’t teach then to pass this paper there is something seriously wrong.
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Stephen John
I see this paper is a foundation level paper. I gather this is the dumbed down version which carries a maximum grade of C. Those who are aiming for a higher grade need to take a higher level paper.
Caroline Bowker explained that at St S many were entered for the higher paper and failed which was why St S had a specific problem with Maths.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
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I am surprised that many posters are against a judicial review/public enquiry.
I have been giving some thought to the many items which still rest uneasy, wouldn’t it be wonderful if all the following mysteries could be solved on behalf of the public?
- Analysis of the performance of all Guernseys secondary schools for the past 25 years. Critical analysis of the data previously released.
- Detailed analysis of the education funding of each guernsey school child and assessment of any inequalities between those who pass the 11+ and those who do not.
- Review of the civil servants who have left the education department for the past 25 years and review of the various reasons for leaving. Scrutiny of any patterns.
- Review of the number of complaints against senior officers in education and the outcome of those complaints.
– Assessment of the performance of the director of education and whether his position was monitored effectively.
- Review of the £30,000 of legal advice obtained by Derek Neale and paid for by the states.
- Review of the teachers pension fund, the identity and actions of the trustee and appropriation of funds.
– Review of the planning process regarding the closure of St Peter Port school – accountability and rationale of decisions made.
A judicial review or public enquiry could bring all these matters to definitive conclusions. If this doesn’t happen we may never know the answers and injustice may prevail.
Mulkerrin has surely done a lot of the ground work and there must be substantial evidence in his notes however his is just an opinion not an objective legal process. A formal review could lead to appropriate action being taken if necessary to ensure any alleged wrongs are addressed and never repeated. Vindication of individuals is possible too.
We’ve come this far with our extensive debates – now lets round things off properly.
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That is an excellent list Spartacus. I think that most people would be supportive, however, are very mindful of the limited resources and the “feelings” of those at the comprehensives and would prefer to just get on with it at this stage. Even if everything in this list was explored there would still be more and then there would be more questions uncovered as a result- which is exactly how many researchers keep themselves employed. Having said that it’s a very good list and I would be extremely curious as to the answers! Perhaps the GP could take up some of your questions as a start, they like to investigate matters of this kind.
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Must disagree with this, sorry Rachel.
These are the answers we need, hopefully it would put this matter to bed.
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Sorry Sparty, not interested.
All that energy raking over the past in a judicial review would be much better spent ensuring a better future for our kids.
As far as I and many others are concerned the source of the problem has been identified and side shunted. Was that process done technically correctly? Probably not, but we don’t care, it’s the outcome that’s important.
No-one’s proud of how DN has been treated but that’s the risk you take when you accept a high-profile, well-rewarded position at the top of an organisation.
The Minister played the political game, lost and has gone. Finally. Unfortunately (for her, more than the rest of us) she doesn’t seem to understand the futility of the path she has chosen since then and how contrary it is to “head held high”.
Hopefully she will get the message soon and deploy her considerable talents elsewhere.
Much as your dogged defence of the indefensible has entertained me over the last few months, I really think it’s time you did the same.
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@Ben
You were doing quite well until you accused me of defending the indefensible. No one is indefensible this is a principle of law. All I’m defending is justice.
Pleased to have entertained you ;-)
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Ben.
This would bring the whole issue to a head.
If Mr Neale is shown to have failed by these answers no one could protect him anymore.
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Frankie –
The issue HAS been brought to a head. The result? The appointments of Messrs Sillars and Buckland.
Yes, having DN still involved somewhere in the mix is not ideal but by the time a judicial review was complete he’d probably have retired anyway.
The fact that DN has been side-shunted doesn’t necessarily mean that there isn’t enough evidence. It’s more likely to indicate that he is more expensive to get rid of than just six months pay, for some reason.
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Sorry Sparty, I have to agree with all the others who have responded to your post. If there was to be a judicial review I think I could predict with 95% accuracy what the outcome could be. But what’s the point? It would be hugely expensive and would do further damage to the reputation of the schools and the education service. It would also cost hundreds of thousands if not more. Let’s move on – the future is bright. I might even change my name as I don’t feel Grumpy any more.
I would like to see that money invested in LMDC and the other schools to ensure that your child, and all his/her friends, get the very best possible education. No excuses.
I totally agree with you about the 11+. I am lucky that all my own children “passed” (a word I hate) and have done very well but I want the best for your child and all the others, whatever their achievement in Y6.
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Very good, I would support this.
Valid questions which would show complete transparency.
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ChrisJ
The response to Mulkerrin is why do the other secondary schools manage to achieve a learning environment? They don’t have LMS, GWR, SR et al.
My total belief is that with good, appropriate teaching the Mare and SS pupils would achieve results similar to Beaucamp, if not better.
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I fully agree with your second point, but you haven’t answered my question. If you were in Buckland’s or Sillars’s shoes, what would you do to ensure that good, appropriate teaching reaches the students at LMDC?
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“what would you do to ensure that good, appropriate teaching reaches the students at LMDC?”
You make teachers and the Education Department accountable. This starts by being open and honest about achievement. Like it or not, publishing results is part of that. You can then begin to hold parents accountable too.
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Grumpy Teacher
The way to resolve the problem is to make sure that the basic skills teachers are good enough. They can go to the CFE and talk to staff there, the States could bring back Mulkerrin or better still some of his staff who successfully teach basic skills.
Hopefully the locally employed staff could learn from these instances of best practice.
Spartacus says “Caroline Bowker explained that at St S many were entered for the higher paper and failed which was why St S had a specific problem with Maths”
Doesn’t say much for the teaching staff and their knowledge of their students if they were entered at a level beyond their abilities!!!
Anyone know which secondary schools enter pupils for the foundation maths?
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@Stephen John -
Mulkerrin lives here and is advising the education board on a part time basis. I’m sure he will tell them if the improvement officers brought in for this purpose are not doing there job. His comments on the StS maths problem suggested a remarking may have been appropriate.
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Stephen John,
There’s a reason I added the words ‘if you were in Buckland or Sillars’s shoes’ to my question. Of course it’s desirable that we ‘make sure that the basic skills teachers are good enough’, but what action do you think Buckland or Sillars should take to achieve this?
Grumpy teacher has suggested an answer – increased accountability (e.g. LMS) and published results. I was wondering if you had a better one.
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It will be interesting to see who the new director of education will be. Some seem to think it is Buckland. But no.
At the moment the acting director of education appears to be Mulkerrin as he is employed as advisor on a part time basis.
I wonder if this new role will push his remuneration above the £25K initial budget.
Mulkerrin would be better placed as head of LMDC. I can’t understand why Mr Wheeler is still there.
I would not wish to be unfair and could be mistaken so are there any contributers out there willing to come out in support of Mr Wheeler?
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I think the first step to raising standards in the secondary schools is getting them to work the same hours as the Grammar School. The old Education Board thought that blazers and ties would do the trick to make everyone feel the same. You don’t get extra marks for wearing a tie when you do your exams!
Can I have £25k for suggesting that one extra maths lesson per week for Y10 and Y11 would work wonders for getting more GCSE grade C?
Spartacus, why are you intent on starting a campaign against Ken Wheeler? You have always been so keen in support of not blaming the individual (when it is CS or DN)
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grumpy teacher
Re Ken Wheeler – the clue was in my post – I’m intent on finding supporters! No luck as yet. If he is staying then I am concerned and seeking reassurance. I have my reasons and there have been comments from Mulkerrin and on this forum.
Are you him?
Re your earlier post, I’m interested in hearing your rationale for making the parents accountable and how this could be implemented. Accountable for what? Accountable for children not accessing the syllabus? For their child not meeting the expectations of others? Social factors are highly relevant but with inadequate support parents cannot be blamed for unrealistic expectations.
I support anything which raises self esteem and confidence, including uniforms. I’m pleased that the uniform policy has changed but don’t understand why LMDC is still dragging its feet. Parents want to know when it will happen so that they can plan ahead and the shops don’t know what to advise at the moment which is making it difficult for them to plan their orders too.
Evidently those who wear ties DO in fact get awarded extra marks.
Why do you think blazers are worn at your children’s school? Are you being a bit hypocritical?
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Spartacus, you have finally unmasked me – I am going to use my real name from now on!
Parents can be held accountable, firstly by getting their offspring to school regularly and on time. I wonder what the attendance and punctuality figures will look like for LMDC when their VSSE report is published? It would then help if parents made sure the same offspring did their homework and handed it in. Then you have attendance at parents evenings and backing up the school if and when things go wrong. Ken Wheeler can’t take the blame for everything.
And I can’t believe there is still no PTA! Is Ken Wheeler blocking it? It would seem that there is a blockage somewhere.
As for blazers, you will soon change your mind when your child loses it two weeks into the new term, as mine did.
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grumpy wheeler
I don’t pretend to understand the extent of the challenge, I can only speculate, but I do know that all parents love their children and want what’s best for them.
All schools have the same problems and it is for the head to take the lead and solve them. For parents to feel engaged in their child’s schooling they need to have the opportunity at least to attend a parents evening. There is one in year 7 for LMDC shortly after the children join the school but then nothing for years! Why? They should be held twice a year for every year group in my opinion. These evenings help motivate the parents and help them focus on helping with their child’s particular strengths and weaknesses.
There should be consequences for lateness – preferably ones which will impact on the parents. Incidences of repeated poor attendance need to be followed up too. Its no good just using this as an excuse – it needs to be addressed. If there are no consequences what do you expect?
There should be a procedure in place for any children who do not complete homework. If there are obstacles for the children they need to be investigated. If the parents are not supportive the reason needs to be understood and additional support given to the child if necessary.
As for backing up the school – I for one have tried to do this but the press is far more influential and it is understandable if this has perhaps made parents angry – this is one of my complaints about the reporting – it’s not helpful. Parents and pupils alike naturally want to be supportive and loyal to their school so you need to tap into that.
If there is now a rift between school and parents then this needs to be tackled head on. Perhaps send a weekly newsletter to give reassurance or defend the attacks or whatever. Parents are perhaps feeling left out and helpless – they need information! Have a meeting! Be brave!
As for reading – I have never had a recommended reading list sent from school- I’ve had to use the internet to find them since primary school level. The school has never given guidelines of how much reading should be done to keep up. There has never been a school visit to the public library, the schools library service is under utilised and I have no informaton on the system within school for access to books which can be taken home. This should all be addressed in my opinion.
Books are going out of fashion as a source of entertainment – there needs to be an awareness campaign to clamp down on use by school children of TV, computers and all electronic games.
These issues are just part of the reason why I believe it is pie in the sky to suggest that now that Neale and Steere have gone everything will be rosy – these problems will continue no matter who is in charge. It needs constant effort to keep parents engaged. Otherwise there is no justification for making them accountable.
This is an ideal time for all these things to be addressed – strike while the iron’s hot! Why is nothing been done? This is a golden opportunity to say – look this is what is happening and this is what the risk is if you parents do not participate in the home/school agreement.
Spring into action please Mr Wheeler!
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Spartacus,
I agree with absolutely everything you say. I am shocked that these things aren’t already happening but what you say ties in with everything others have told me.
This highlights what Mulkerrin said about the Education Department not knowing what is going on in schools. If the senior officers and Board members were going into schools regularly and taking time to talk to parents and students they would have picked up on some of this.
Mulkerrin also talks about schools having governing bodies. In England you have elected parent governors who would speak up and make sure these things were happening. He thinks that would work in Guernsey and so do I.
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grumpy teacher
The current law has no provision for governing bodies so that won’t change for at least 2- 3 years!
Are you suggesting the education board should be having a difficult conversation with Ken Wheeler for failing to implement these things?
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I am not going to haul Ken over the coals but someone responsible for LMDC took their eye off the ball. The question is, where does the buck stop? With Ken? With Carol? With Derek? With Richard Digard? With Spartacus?
With regard to governors, you are right in your analysis, but governors in England evolved over a long period, firstly with very few powers which were added to in time.
In Guernsey we already have school committees. I suggest the first step is to have elected parent representatives on the school committees. This could happen tomorrow as the committees have no statutory powers but they could be developed into effective discussion forums. Then when the legislation comes on stream we are ready to have governors with whatever devolved powers are deemed suitable for the Guernsey context.
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I have said this already on a few occasions -an immediate course of action should be to lengthen the school day in the three high schools. Why on earth do they finish at 3pm – actually isnt it 2.55 in STS – correct me if I am wrong- there are some primary schools that dont finish till 3.15 although I appreciate the primary schools dont start till 9am. It wouldnt be so bad if they finished early with some homework to be got on with at home – but that is rarely the case. What is needed is back to basics stuff like individual assessments immediately for all students in reading, literacy and maths – draft in extra paid or voluntary staff to conduct these projects- there are loads of capable parents out there willing and able to help – might have to pay a small hourly rate (OK they would have to go through all the usual police checks/admissions employment crap) but lets just get on with doing something tangible so parents and students can see that SOMETHING is happening and SOON.
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parent
We have seen some changes – we received newly formatted assessments and targets – didn’t you? We’ve also noticed homework improvements since the improvement officers arrived and other things seem to be turning around. Absolutely agree that back to basics is the way to go rather than LMS, ETS and all that complicated Mulkerrin nonsense requiring changes to the law, that will probably come too late for our kids. I would like to see a parent meeting arranged yesterday to explain all that has been done and also, as you suggest, to find out what more we parents can do.
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Good to hear that the learning experience is improving at the Mare.
Hopefully this years examinees will benefit in their examinations.
All of this does raise the question of why the well paid local teachers weren’t able to do this themselves.
The priority should be in improving classroom performance at the Mare and SS.
Any structural, responsibilities, governance etc can wait and be structured for the need of Guernsey, and not the simply copy the often questionable UK structures and governance.
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I am pleased that to read that you have noticed improvements – that is good news. I have 3 children who have now left school, one currently at primary (where there have been BIG improvements in literacy and maths in the last 2 years, in fact every single day the mornings are dedicated to letters and sounds, literacy and maths, with topic/games/art stuff in the afternoon so I think this primary school is getting it right in conjunction with parental support) and one who is a scholarship child. I can appreciate this debate from all aspects having had children go through the system over the last 20 years both at the secondary schools and grammar and college!!!
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stephen john
throughout your posts you appear to have an axe to grind as you mention local teachers in a derogatory way. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the u.k. teachers employed here are any better than teachers of local origin or vice versa. i would point out to you that two of the three high school heads are not local. Now it appears things are improving let’s support all of the teachers and move forward.
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Kevin, there are lots of good teachers here, both local and non-local. It is interesting that the one out of three high school heads who is local would appear to be the most successful.
I agree that things are improving now that the issues are out in the open. Let’s give all our teachers and students full support and make our schools the envy of the world.
I hope the Education Department staff will learn that they are there to support those of us in the front line and not for their own benefit.
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Rachel
This is sort of the programme topic, they were also counting vocational courses.
I have looked, here is the link, worth seeing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/b01bp80j/
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Spartacus, Grumpy Teacher and others seem keen to foster the active involvement of supportive parents. I welcome such constructive involvement and would expect our headteachers to be similarly welcoming.
Of course it will be those same supportive parents that read to their children and tell them stories. They will foster literacy and numeracy and their children are likely to be highly-motivated and well-behaved at school.
In all the enthusiasm to adopt Mr Mulkerrin’s recommendations, it is to be hoped that the new Minister and other board members will get into the schools quickly… and then get beyond the head’s office; without minders. Only then will they learn the reality of daily life in our schools; especially if they make the time to speak with children, teachers, assistants and parents.
Our secondary schools need a period of calm and the deployment of such resources as will be necessary to implement the Mulkerrin recommendations. They might also appreciate some strong professional leadership… and I don’t mean the imposition of micro-management from from senior officers whose own self-confidence may have been shaken by recent events. If senior management is found to be weak, then deal with the problem via the appropriate machinery.
Be assured that the vast majority of teachers in our schools are both professionally competent and personally conscientious. Give them the tools but let them do the job.
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Sean, I totally agree with everything you say here, especially your third paragraph.
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Sean McManus
There is no evidence that Ken Wheeler welcomes constructive involvement of supportive parents. Parental involvement seems to be discouraged. Perhaps he has no need for the involvement of supportive parents for the reasons you have given however the parents who need to be engaged are those who for various reasons are not able to give their children the required support, surely? I repeat – all parents love their children and want what’s best for them.
Minister Sillars and Deputy Tasker have been on the board for several months – I would have expected them to have visited LMDC several times by now and if they have got past the minders I expect they will be well aware of the concerns about Ken Wheeler which I’m alluding to.
Just as an example – When a female student uses the “f” word in front of the headmaster and other pupils is it really effective or appropriate for him to say “no swearing please” and take no action? That is comical from the pupils’ perspective.
How can the Mulkerrin recommendations be implemented in the schools? Do you mean recommendation number 3 which was that the education department should carry on doing what they were already doing? Number 4 is done and no others can be done because they are all against the law!
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/01/13/report-finds-serious-shortcomings-in-education-management/#comment-116696
I wholeheartedly agree that there are many fantastic teachers however some of their feelings about Mr Wheeler have also filtered through to the pupils.
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Spartacus
I take careful note of your comments but do not feel it appropriate to deal with individual employees via a public blog.
My response to the swearing issue remains unchanged and reflects the views of those I represented for so many years. The Education Dep’t need to decide what level of swearing they are prepared to tolerate… if any. For far too long their uncertainty has led to confusion among staff, pupils and parents and to inconsistencies across island schools.
In schools many problems arise from similar uncertainties in relation to policies re. uniform, homework and “low-level” disruptive behaviour. These are the very areas that require clear and consistent political and professional leadership.
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Sean McManus
With respect your comments imply that I am naive and that my concerns about head teachers stem from faults within the education department. I disagree because the attitudes and responses of some head teachers appear to be more effective than others.
Swearing and “low level” disruption is not acceptable behaviour. Why would any good head teacher need a central policy to tell him how to deal with this?
The guidelines for homework at my child’s key stage is 10 hours per week and yet only a fraction of this is set at LMDC. Will the school get reprimanded by the education department if they set more than this? Evidently not because Grammar pupils are set far more homework than this. There is no uncertainty because the guideline is written in every pupil’s planner.
The uniform policy has been passed – there is no uncertainty but look what happens when you give ineffective heads autonomy to implement this – nothing happens! Les Beaucamp and St S have been proactive but Ken Wheeler has done nothing! Why delay?
I’m sorry Deputy McManus but the clear and consistent political leadership is apparent but so is the obstruction.
I want to support Ken Wheeler but if he is weak and the parents and the education department are a convenient excuse for his lack of command then that’s not good enough. I would be very happy if I’m mistaken – everything I have said about him is a constructive call for action and a call for reassurance.
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grumpy teacher
Are you Ken Wheeler?
I agree that the education department are responsible for monitoring his performance however I don’t agree with the idea that any shortcomings of his are their fault.
St S had a problem with Maths but otherwise seems to be OK – LMDC had an issue with the influx of StPP students but Mulkerrin said “The GCSE pass rate at La Mare de Carteret High was affected by other factors. There are issues to do with communication, consultation, consistency, and in some cases low expectations. Although I saw some good lessons, staff morale is low and there are too many temporary or cover staff. Les Beaucamps School has a highly respected Headteacher and good staff morale”
This indicates a problem. Just saying.
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Spartacus
I certainly did not intend to imply that any poster might be naive.
I accept your point re. official departmental policy and the responsibilities of an individual headteacher and/or school. However, if you’ve had the opportunity to read the Scrutiny Committee report on school exclusions you will understand why teachers so regularly complain about the inconsistent application of supposedly standard policies.
If parents have serious concerns about the the way their child’s school is led or managed, it would seem to be axiomatic that those concerns be drawn to the attention of those responsible. Unless or until Guernsey adopts some form of LMS, those ultimately responsible are the central authorities at the Grange.
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Sean McManus
I have taken on board your helpful comments and yes I have read the report and the LMDC policy. I have stated some of my concerns and I feel they are valid.
LMS, if approved, will not be implemented while my child is at secondary as Deputy Sillars has confirmed it will be several years before the education law will be redrafted. I have doubts about the necessity and value of the LMS recommendation however I will be interested in the education board’s response.
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Sean is absolutely correct. The ultimate authority for any school, whever it is, is the governing body, because they are responsible for the appointment of the headteacher, to whom he or she reports and is answerable.
Mulkerrin wrote, “The Director of Education informed me that, as well as formulating policy, the Education Board is also the governing body of the schools. This may well be under the 1970 Guernsey Education Law. However to imply that the Board can be an effective governing body to the 27 schools in the Bailiwick is nonsense. It is simply not possible.”
This, dear Spartacus, is the root of the problem.
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