Parking clocks must always show your time of arrival
Monday 6th February 2012, 12:01PM GMT.
Coenraad Geyser was angered at the prospect of getting up at 4am to move his van to avoid a parking ticket, but Sergeant John Tostevin says vehicles parked in a 10-hour slot at 6pm when restrictions end can stay there until 8am.
POLICE have clarified disc parking rules after concerns were raised that following the letter of the law would leave residents at a disadvantage.
Coenraad Geyser, 28, was worried those living in Town – he lives in Allez Street – would be unable to avoid tickets after a police crackdown on illegal parking last week.
In total 125 tickets were issued during the operation – raising £3,750.
Traffic sergeant John Tostevin said islanders had to set their parking clocks at the time of arrival – regardless of whether they had parked outside of disc-zone time restrictions – not at the time parking restrictions started.
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Surely it is blatantly obvious that you set the clock at the time of arrival. What is all the fuss about?
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I’m confused. Does this mean that if I wanted to drive my car into town on a Friday evening, leaving it in a 10hr space on North Beach so I could have a few drinks and pick it up in the morning, I would already be due a parking ticket by 8am?
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The disc parking regs do seem a little ‘confusing’ on first glance, but here is a link that may help you (and others) to understand. Basically though, set your clock for the time you arrive, as setting it for any other time is an offence, even if you intend to move before your ‘alloted’ time is up.
http://www.gov.gg/article/3679/Parking
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Yup
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If you park it at 18.10, you set the clock for 18.10 (even though the parking restrictions have stopped). The 10 hour period expires at 04.10 the next morning so you would need to move your car before the parking restrictions start again at 08.00. If you are there after 8.00 you would be liable to get a ticket.
It’s obvious really, and I thought that this is all explained on the clock itself…?
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Yep that sounds right GsyLdn. Just as well get a taxi in and a taxi home because either way it’s going to cost about £30. Are there any more ways they can squeeze money from us and make life not so fun!!
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According to http://www.gov.gg/article/3679/Parking
the following town car parks don’t have restrictions on Saturdays so you could park there on a Friday night without having to move it before 8am
•The Odeon Car Park
•Salerie Car Park
•Mignot Plateau
Parking is not limited on Sundays or Bank holidays so you should be safe to park on North Beach on a Saturday night.
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Excellent spot CMcL
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Thanks CMcL! Good spot!
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The rules are confusing
I have never properly understood the rules for leaving your car in Town overnight on a Friday or Saturday and what time it should be moved the next morning.
Surely 8.00 am is impractically early?
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Pyer – I agree that 8am is an impractical time to move your car after a night out. Belive me… it is also a highly impractical time to get up and move your car if you live in town and do not have to get up for work that day!
I know that the Environment Committee issue residents parking permits but, from my experience, the these permits can be very difficult to get hold of depending on the exact area in which you live!
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the system is not designed for you to leave your car overnight, it is designed to ensure that there are spaces available at 8am, when people need them in order to go to work.
If leaving it on a Saturday night there is no problem, as the parking restrictions do not start again until 8am on the Monday.
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The parking restrictions start at 8 because that is when people start arriving for work, so if there weren’t any restrictions then many parking spaces would be taken up by cars left there the night before.
There aren’t any parking restrictions on Sunday, so you could collect your car at any time during the day if you left it there on a Saturday night, and I guess you could leave it there til 8am Monday morning? Would have to check that though.
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Its a nightmare if you live in town to get up at 8am to move the car, its also a nightmare trying to park on certain roads!! I wish they would bring in a proper residences permit so that residences could park near their house!
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The whole system seems to be confusing. For example when I phoned up to enquire – if you park in a 23 hour car parking area you don’t need to put a clock up at all. When I queried this, the person on reception at the police station told me the wardens don’t patrol these areas at all. I still put a clock up, just in case.
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You only have to display a parking DISK ( which is what they actually are, not DISCS , whatever Environment may think ( and don’t get me started on insurance “discs” which are neither DISCS nor DISKS )) in a DISC zone.
However it is still illegal to park over the limit in any parking zone.
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You are correct in your thinking ref not needing to display a clock for the 23 hour parking zones, as these spaces are generally on ‘estates’ and isolated car parks that would be impractical for the wardens to police on a daily basis. They are however subject to ‘visits’ every now and then if complaints are received regarding vehicles overstaying their welcome, Police Aware stickers are duly affixed.
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As far as I’m aware, the 23 hour parking rule is to stop people parking their vehicles there long term – i.e weeks.
If the Police get a complaint about vehicles parking there long term, then they can do things such as marking tyres to see if they have moved etc. 23 hours later, and if the marks show the vehicle hasn’t moved then they can issue a ticket.
If you park your car in a 23 hour space, and leave it over a weekend, then I very much doubt you will get a ticket. The person issuing the ticket has to be able to prove that it’s been there for more than 23 hours, and as you don’t need to put a clock up, then by visually inspecting the vehicle and again after 23 hours is the only way this can be done.
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of course they patrol these areas. Housing estates are 23hr disc zones. So you have to move your vehicle every 23hrs.
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The whole system isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, of course people don’t follow it correctly. However it’s never been policed, because it’s not worth the cost in policing it.
I’ve always known that you’re supposed to set your clock for when you arrive but quite frankly if I’m leaving my car in town after driving in for a night out then I always set it for 8am.
What’s the alternative?
If I can’t be picked up/dropped off, use a bus (considering the winter schedule is rubbish then that’s most nights) or walk in then I’m going to drive in and set the clock for 8am and pick it up sometime during the next day. If I was to pick it up before 8am the following day chances are I would still be over the drink driving limit.
Put on a decent night bus schedule or make taxis more affordable and I’ll consider leaving my car at home. Until then I’ll run the risk of getting a ticket. At the beginning of a night It’ll cost me around £10 to get a taxi into town (and £15 to get home) so it’s more cost effective to run the risk.
I can understand people being ticketed for not moving their cars in days, and rightly so but for a night out it’s not worth it. They’re not taking the space away from anyone else, so unless the car park is full and as long as they haven’t parked there for days on end then there’s really no issue.
Coenraad Geyser was probably just being pedantic and was trying to be clever by bringing up a ‘flaw’. Has he ever gotten a ticket for doing this? No probably not. In fact I don’t know anyone who has, therefore rather than moaning about the ‘technicalities’ of the clock system just be glad they’re not as pedantic as you are.
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Pedantic.Im sure all your mates are very lucky to have someone like you who happen to know big words
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as I’m sure your mates are very lucky to know someone as sardonic as you…
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As stated in the sog Traffic etc.
•You must not park for longer than the specified period for that parking place unless that period ends after 6pm, in which case you may park until 8am the following morning – i.e. park in a 2 hour park at 7am, set your clock for 07.00, and move by 9am as the 2 hour period ends after 8am. Park in the same place at 5pm, set you clock for 17.00 and you can stay until 8am because the period ends after 6pm.
However surely if you park after the 6pm and before the 8am you should be allowed your 2 hrs of parking ie. park at 7am you should be allowed your 2 hours because you parked outside the 2hr limit etc, just the same as anyone who drove into town at 8pm set their clock took a taxi home should be allowed their 2 hrs until 10am or same relevant hours if parked in longer time zone etc etc.
For instance when parking on the continent in paid parking areas if you park at 11am and paid for 2 hrs but the paid parking ends between 12 and 5pm you are paid up until 6pm (the 1 hr from 11am til 12 then 5pm til 6pm thats 2 hrs of paid parking)
As I have stated above it makes more sense to me.
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I have to say, that up until I read this, I was always (incorrectly it would appear!) of the understanding that if I was to park in a 2 hour at 6pm, the 2 hour period wouldn’t start until 8am, meaning that I didn’t have to move my car until 10am!
In the 13 years I have been driving,there has been many a time my car has been left over night on the above basis and I have never received a ticket for it. I have even had a “discussion” with my boyfriend about this, truly believing that I was right (it so happens that his understanding of setting the parking clock for 8am start is also incorrect, so seems we both lost this arguement!)
It would appear I have either been extremely lucky all these years, or as “Car Parker” stated, it’s just not cost effective to police this.
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Miss B, be careful, it will only be a matter of time before the Police are instructed to stand on North Beach at 07:59 and at 08:01, any car that hasn’t truly parked at 08:00 will be issued a ticket for falsely setting their disc/disk/clock
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So then people start setting them at 6am… or 4am… unless they have cops policing it 24hrs it would be a flash in the pan. The cost of taking a cab every week would outweigh what it would cost in a ticket every now and then…
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The text on the bootom of disk zone signs are also wrong but they won’t have that either.
When you see written on the bottom – ‘ending between 8am and 6pm’ how do you read it? For me it says that the disc zone ends between those times. Their version of english leaves little to be desired.
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The wording is correct but you need to read the whole sign. The exact wording varies but is to the effect of “Parking for any [say] 10 hour period ending between 8am and 6pm”. It therefore means that the disc zone applies if your time runs out between those times.
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I thought I should get in touch as some of the conversation,issues raised and points made by myself to the reporter at the Guernsey press may have been overlooked and not mentioned in the article.
The first issue i raised was that the tactics the police and traffic department used,by staking out the odeon car park and checking the parking clocks of the cars at 6am in the morning and then waiting for 8am to strike so they could write out a mass of tickets in the region of a 125,left any residents who werent able to move their cars before 8am at a disadvantage and eligible for a ticket if they didnt park there at 11pm onwards the previous evening.
So?
If the police and traffic department want,they could use that tactic every day(except saturday and sunday),and then anyone who happens to be sick,have a day off,starts work after 8am,or for whatever reason cant get to the carpark before 8am can expect a parking ticket.
What a shame my pedantic views werent mentioned in the paper.
And yes,if Anyone would like to avoid getting a ticket you do have a choice of moving your car after 11pm,and yes,even at 4am if you want,then drive around for half an hour to repark to be safe from the early morning vultures waiting to squeeze your wallet a bit more when 8am strikes
Yippy,soon we can avoid all this by paying £75 for a permit.Wonder how many people Are going to want one of them
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I’m not quite sure what you think should be done.
It is quite clear that being parked at 8am is an offence unless you have been there for less than the time permitted for the relevant space. So how is it “tactics” for the wardens to actually enforce the law?
The parking spaces are there to enable people to find a parking space before work – that would be no good if half the spaces are filled by over-sleeping residents who don’t fancy moving their cars before 9am.
If you do live in the area and use public car parks to park your car, then getting up and moving it before 8am is one of the hassles that goes with the territory.
I do agree that a parking permit system would work better for residents – for those spaces that are better suited to residents rather than commuting workers. But curiously you don’t seem to want to pay a fee to get that unlimited right to park either.
So what do you want? The right to simply park your car where you like, for as long as you like, for free?
Maybe I’ve misunderstood, but that is how it comes across.
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Perhaps Coenraad would rather fork out the £25,000 several Valnord residents have each paid recently for a private parking slot
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Id rather spend every penny i make on my son and family
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Well Terry,maybe you can tell the residents of the Odeon area that use the carpark to make sure they park after 11pm or make sure their gone by 8am so you can have a parking space.or maybe the people heading to work in stpp can take a bus?
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I don’t give a monkey’s whether the Odeon parking is designated as commuter parking or resident parking. But at present it is designed for commuters, hence the timing of the parking restrictions.
There is no point complaining about having to get up and move your car before 8am, when the system is designed to make sure that you DO move your car before 8am.
Your complaints sound as if you think that this is an unintended inconvenience – it is not, it exactly the intended result.
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Ok,dont know who mentioned over sleeping residents,but i guess its just as much a hassle as it is to walk up hill to offices or places of work from salerie,north beach,crown pier and all the other spots at those carparks which the last time i checked wasnt surounded by a substantial amount of residential properties.
Plain and simple,the parking laws at odeon for residents is a no win situation unless you park after 11pm.So the person who finishes work before 11pm should be prepared to go move his car at 11pm or after,waste 30min petrol,or move before 8am,to be safe from getting a ticket.
so effectivly,park after 11pm or dont be sick,dont have a day off,dont have car trouble,dont have a job starting after 8am.
Or in my wifes situation who starts work at 9,dont wait for our 7month olds babysitter who arrives at 8.30.
And the list of possible situations that prevents a resident from moving their car are limtless
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Ok, don’t know who mentioned over sleeping residents, but i guess it’s just as much a hassle as it is to walk up hill to offices or places of work from salerie, north beach, crown pier and all the other spots at those car parks which the last time i checked wasn’t surrounded by a substantial amount of residential properties.
Plain and simple, the parking laws at Odeon for residents is a no win situation unless you park after 11pm.So the person who finishes work before 11pm should be prepared to go move his car at 11pm or after, waste 30min petrol, or move before 8am,to be safe from getting a ticket.
so effectivly,park after 11pm or don’t be sick,dont have a day off, don’t have car trouble ,don’t have a job starting after 8am.
Or in my wife’s situation who starts work at 9, don’t wait for our 7month olds babysitter who arrives at 8.30.
And the list of possible situations that prevents a resident from moving their car are limitless
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And as for parking permits,how many do you think will apply?And what problems will those present?Im fully against paying for anithing near the Odeon car park as the money they make from tickets and permits dont bring adequate lighting or cctv to protect my car.I saw a 23hour parking zone today?mmmmm???
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I am sure that plenty will apply. £75 per year is pretty good value for being able to park for as long as you like near to your home. Most cities in the UK charge similar amounts or more for residents’ parking permits.
I don’t see why there would be problems. What do you have in mind?
If you have a permit there would be no tickets for you, so your concerns about them making lots of money disappear.
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the money ‘made’ from parking tickets goes to the home department.
Its not the first time a mark has been done on the Odeon and definately not the last.
We’d all like to park right next to our home or work place but its not always possible.
The number of tickets put out over the 2 day operation obviously shows how many people are trying to elude the system and do things properly.
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Terry
I may be wrong but I seem to remember reading that the £75 fee was for a three year permit
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absolute bargain! that’s 48p per week!
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I thing it completely rediculous that this sitaution has come about at all….
How many oppuirtunities has Guernsey had to build 1 or even 2 decent sized multi storey car parks??? One near the Grange (where the new office buildings are) and one near the Valde Terres (where many flats are going to built).
How many times has Guernsey backed the finance industry over its own needs? Surely sometimes we need to spend money to help ourselves. The UK has done this, and even if you had to pay a few pence a day each to Pay and Park it will eventually get paid. I am also sure the Financial workers will back this as its makes life easier for everyone!!
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Oh! do let’s get over this daft multi-storey car park idea. We have too many cars on the roads already….. I challenge anyone to say that we improve Guernsey’s character and environment every time we try to figure out how we can facilitate even more cars coming into town. Cars are useful, we all know that, but they don’t have to be used to the extent that they are here, for pretty much every journey, however short. It’s about time that we took our responsibilities to be good guardians of the island a bit more seriously.
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Whether you like it or not Rosie, cars will keep coming to the island and people will keep buying them. Its a sad fact but its a true fact. Most families have 2 cars or more in some cases. So a simple way of parking (like most places in the world) is underground parking or multi storey.
I agree less cars in town would be great – but most people and most businesses are located in town, and believe it or not the finance sector will get larger atracting more people – hense more cars (or am i missing something here)?
I can see your point but sometimes we have to live with modern times. People will keep buying cars. Simple fact.
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“People will keep buying cars. Simple fact”
Only of course it is not simple, and in due course possibly not a fact either.
If fuel prices rise significantly, as they may well do, and if car sharing schemes, efficient public transport, home working and other measures are brought into play, you may well find that people, in fact, buy fewer cars.
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I am afraid that I find nothing ‘modern’ about continuing down the route of increasing car usage when we can already see that it is having a negative effect on the fabric of the island. (And that is only highlighting one of the negatives of too much reliance on the car…. there are plenty of other good reasons for wanting / needing to reduce car use.) To ignore the obvious consequences of that behaviour, seems to me to be a really old fashioned mentality, routed in the idea that we must be allowed to do as we please at all costs.
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I think underground parking would be the way forward if a suitable location be found.
I address your issue on another thread Rosie.
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£75 permit for three years? Where can I get one and can I park anywhere at any time with it?
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Sarnia Expat
Google ‘Guernsey residential parking permit’ for the official version
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Rosie is absolutely right. Accommodating this problem (lack of parking) will only create a bigger problem – gridlock. Look at Jersey.
Let’s hope the new States care a bit more about the character of the island and in particular those residents who for financial, medical or other reasons don’t drive. A top class bus service is required, funded by those who wish to continue to park their private vehicles on expensive land.
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Well as you stated terry,you say the parking spaces are there for people who need to park for work,which doesnt leave the residents with much choice should a situation arise where they cant move their car before 8am.Good to know you couldnt give a monkeys.
Because the result will be that the residents getting the permits will leave whoever needs to park at the odeon for work with even less parking space options,and doubt the residents are going to give a monkeys either bout that.
Would it be nice if the money went towards cctv and lighting?100% yes.Should I have to move my car before 8am because I happen to park before 11pm to be safe from a ticket?no,and thats the point.The police and traffic department dont know under what circumstances people dont move their car and especially shouldnt be fined for parking and going home before 11pm
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Car parking cannot be all things to all people. It is either designed for residents (who want to be able to just leave their cars parked until they want to travel somewhere) or for commuters (which means that need to be available from when the commuters start to arrive). Trying to accommodate both simply cannot work.
At the moment, the Odeon is designed for commuters. I said I didn’t give a monkey’s because I would have no objection to it being resedignated as residents parking if that was felt to be the greatest need.
But you seem to be complaining that commuting parking spaces are inconvenient for residents – but that is the point, they are designed to be inconvenient for residents.
I would have understood if you were asking for the Odeon to be turned into residents parking, but then at the same time you said that you were not willing to pay a nominal fee for a parking permit – so it seemed like you want everything for nothing.
As for CCTV and extra lighting, absolutely no. CCTV is useless anyway (they never convict on the basis of it and in order to get decent images of a thief/vandal in a car park you would need hundreds of cameras to cover all angles) and we do not really want St Peter Port to be lit up with high powered security lights. It is totally unnecessary and would be detrimental to those with houses which face onto the car park.
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Maybe a survey should be done to estimate how many commuters actually use the Odeon carpark for residential,business or recreational purposes.
Because either way the Odeon parking clock system is automatically designed to trap residents into receiving a parking ticket.
Id suggest ajusting the time limit as there is more than enough parking on the seafront at that time of the morning for comuters who work in town to park should the Odeon be filled up.
Because theres most likely a snowballs chance in hell the states will turn the Odeon into a residential parking lot.
As for cctv and lighting,there have been amazing advances in technology to provide security and non intrusive lighting upon residents around the Odeon.And im sure the states can afford spending a bit with the cash they make from tickets and permits
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Coenraad
‘Residential,business or recreational’
Which category would all the college parkers fit into?
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To be honest,after seeing how some of them park,some of them shouldnt even be driving.You can add them into any category you like,probably business as they arrive at the same time.
But here is a solution,divide the car park into two different parking times like they do in north beach.One side 23hour and the other 10hour
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I think a new law needs to be brought in to stop cars being sold from public car parks.Far too many spaces are being taken up by spaces being used by people selling cars as a business.
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We need regulations the same as Jersey , most if not all of their car parks have signs stating that any vehicles being parked in the zone displaying “For Sale” signs will automatically attract a £50 fixed penalty ticket.
Lets be honest , a lot of the vehicles for aale at the side of the roads are people who don’t wish to pay the scrapping of the old bangers .. quite a few of them are ropey to be polite ..
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Paul’s idea would seem to be a very simple and straightforward solution to this long standing problem
All we need now is for the responsible States Committee to COPY the Jersey legislation (no need to re-invent the wheel here)and it’s sorted
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The Jersey legislation is entitled Road Traffic (Public Parking Places)(Jersey) Order,1985
Sec (11) (1) … No person shall in a parking place …
(g) use,or cause or permit to be used,a vehicle in connection with -
(i) the sale of any article to persons in or near the place: or
(ii) the selling or offering for hire of a person’s skills or services; or
(iii) any trade or business whatsoever
The fine in 1985 is shown as a maximum of £20 but this has no doubt been raised over the years
Sounds good,but not quite sure if there is an allowance for traders vans with their company logos and phone numbers permanently painted on
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As long as you’ve kept your registration certificate or logbook for your car it’s free to dispose of it at Bulk Refuse, you just need to get a form from Environment at Frossard
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