120 Sark people protest against newsletter
Monday 13th February 2012, 3:00PM GMT.
A quarter of Sark’s electorate marched in protest at the content of the Sark Newsletter. (Picture by Marion Falle)
AROUND a quarter of Sark’s voters marched in support of the island’s doctor on Saturday and protested against the ‘personal and vindictive’ content of the Sark Newsletter.
A total of 120 people gathered at the Island Hall, many carrying placards and banners proclaiming their support for Dr Peter Counsell, who has resigned over comments made about him in the newsletter, a publication edited by Kevin Delaney of Sark Estate Management.
They then marched down The Avenue where they congregated briefly outside the SEM headquarters at La Collinette.
Although feelings were running high, the demonstration was a peaceful one. The news that it was taking place was spread by word of mouth, text and email.
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Saturday 26 May
- Laid-off staff see jobs re-advertised next day
- The Week - Roots Manuva interview
- Royal celebrations of yesteryear
- The Week - Jubilee Food
- Sport - Angus Mackay takes Gib job
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Well, it’s probably all been said already looking back through recent discussions here.
It looks like Delaney has got a demonstration of People Power at last. Let’s hope he enjoyed it.
Report abuse
This sark news letter should be banned i feel sorry for the hole of sark residents as the SEM is giving the place a bad name and people that use to go over on hols dont want to go because it is a changed place,i just wish the SEM would leave sark as it was.
Report abuse
I hope you mean whole and not hole :0)
Report abuse
It was disappointing, but not surprising, that Mr Delaney didn’t have the courage or courtesy to meet the demonstrators.
Report abuse
I read the full GP report, and watched the Channel TV item – including Delaney’s most unfortunate and dismissive “Establishment RentaMob” jibe.
Well – if THEIR mob is bigger than YOUR mob, THEY win – because that is what democracy is about. So be careful what you wish for, Mr Delaney.
But really, everyone, this is now moved so far beyond farce that surely the Lt Governor must act? I bet he never expected such excitement when he took on an apparently genteel backwater posting!
Let’s hope Lord McNally is also paying close attention.
Report abuse
On trawling the internet I find this statement attributed to Mr. Delaney:-
a typical rent-a-mob organised by Sark’s feudal fundamentalists.”
In a statement to Channel Television he said: “In respect of the 30 to 35 people who marched on my office yesterday. The real issue is not the doctor resigning but the fact that a gravely ill elderly lady was deprived of the opportunity to be hospitalised in minutes and instead subjected to a sea journey in the middle of the night on the floor of a lifeboat in gale force winds and 2 – 3 metre seas, resulting in a 2 1/2 hour delay in getting her to hospital.
“The Sark Newsletter has every right to report on issues that are in the public interest. Naturally, Islanders are concerned that they too will be deprived of an emergency airlift should the worst happen and they or one of their loved ones require an emergency evacuation. The conduct of the doctor is really a matter for the General Medical Council.
“Channel TV should question the motives of those who marched. Most of them were or are supporters of feudalism, a typical rent-a-mob organised by Sark’s feudal fundamentalists. They object to the Sark Newsletter’s tireless campaign for real democracy, transparency and accountability in the governance of the Island.
“Freedom of speech and the freedom of the press are the bedrock of democracy and for the people of Sark to see their politicians participating in a march against such freedoms should strike fear into their hearts. What sort of society would accept the suppression of a free press?”
Report abuse
I think you will find that the numbers at the demonstration would have been significantly higher if it was not for the spectre of fear generated by Sark Estate Management as to how certain people may be affected if they were to ‘put their head above the parapet’. Mr Kevin Delaney spouts ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘democracy’ – well I think there is a difference between this and what appears to amount to incitement and character assassination (anyone remember the tongue-in-cheek Hitler incident a while ago??? – KD wasn’t so keen on freedom of speech then) in the Sark News Letter (a misnomer if ever there was one). If anyone has seen the SNL in recent weeks – just ask yourself this- if this kind of letter was put through your door, naming friends, relatives and colleagues and personally attacking various deputies with increasing vitriol and bile – how long do you think it would be before it was stamped on from a great height? KD, through the medium of the SEM and the SNL, seems intent on doing everything in his power to discredit the Sark politicians (who were overwhelmingly DEMOCRATICALLY voted in)citing his ‘tireless’ campaign for ‘real democracy’ – anyone except a fool can therefore now see that what he means is a ‘democracy’ where the SEM have power – ie a return to a manner of feudalism that the Barclays insisted was out-of-date and unfair (see where this is going…?). I find it quite incredible that the States of Guernsey have
not reviewed this increasingly intolerable situation and offered some kind of
support – as Dave Jones seems to be the only Deputy who has voiced an
opinion on this subject I would be very interested to get his comment on the
States stance, if any on this? This situation is now spiralling out of control – good people who offer a lot to Sark are being effectively forced out in what amounts to a hate campaign (always teetering on the edge of legality though – clever boys). This is now really affecting the majority of islanders and does not show any sign of getting any better soon.
Report abuse
Sark pride !…
@ Sark O’Zee (great alias !) : “His Masters’ Voice” was certainly waiting for the green light from his ordering parties…
Report abuse
Sark O’zee It was a shame he must have have been tipped of about the case of eggs and 10 trays of tomato’s hidden by his office,( some donated by members of his staff) the fact that we did not not use them shows that we were attempting a peaceful message, but alas, once again he come’s out fighting with stupid comments!! and in doing so he has not yet woken up to the fact that every time he opens his mouth he offends 90% of Sark family’s. How can this be allowed to continue ?
Report abuse
@Prot
Those were not eggs and tomatoes, those were fishes and loaves. Too bad there was too small a turnout for the Messiah of the SNL to be bothered to perform his miracle.
Report abuse
Big respect to the Guernsey Press for enabling this essential discussion to develop at last. I guess Delaney’s hysterical mauling of poor Phil Falle was a bit of a tactical cock-up, eh?
Now we must all keep on the pressure until the matter is resolved in the only way we know that ever will be resolved: a bright future for Sark without the SNL and its bullying protagonists. Ideally with the SEM and its stranglehold on the island economy under the control of the elected government, and not the other way round – which is apparently the current SNL agenda.
Report abuse
Sark Holiday maker :
It was 120 protesters that marched on Delaneys office not 35-40 as spun by Delaney.
Lets get the facts right.
Report abuse
So the number who did not march must have been 400+?.
I guess many struggle to understand why the doctor felt the need to resign when claiming his innocence. It appears that via the Sark Medical Committee, he has given the SNL far wider publicity than they could have wished for.
Report abuse
D_A
Since you are one of very few posting here who have nothing to fear from the sanctions of the island’s overbearing economic power, please identify yourself so we can better understand appreciate your point of view.
As you may have gathered from the responses, we are mostly poor confused souls, seeking much needed enlightenment into the fascinating ways of you finely honed logic and rapier-like thought processes.
Report abuse
“So the number who did not march must have been 400+?.” – This abuse of statistics is a typical dirty tactic whenever there’s a protest about anything.
“If only X people march for a cause, then the remaining Y people must be against it.”
No! Those 400 people simply didn’t march. That makes them neither for nor against.
200 people felt sufficiently motivated to get off their butts to make a point. The question you have to ask is: how many people actively protested against the doctor? So far, that seems to be a grand total of 1.
So the visible statistics so far are 200 to 1.
Report abuse
Oops! Of course that should have been 120, not 200 :( My mistake, but the point still stands.
Report abuse
In the interest of fairness and accuracy. There were 120 people at the island hall, most had gathered for a jumble sale. About 40 protesters turned up and tried to get the jumble shoppers to follow them on the march. Most didn’t. So , purely in the interest of accuracy, there truly were only about 40 protesters on the march. Yes i live here, no i dont want an arguement, i just want my island to sort itself out. On both sides.
Report abuse
Are you on one of the sides or do you not mind one way or the other what happens to the island? Maybe it’s best not to say anything unless you actually have an opinion one way or the other.
Report abuse
I’m on my side mary. Its suited me for many years now. I’ve had to watch as my island is destroyed by arguing and one up manship. My voice will never be heard. I voted for a new democracy and nothing changed. Really. Nothing at all. So i’m on my side. I’m leaving and i dont much care what happens here when i’m gone. It was never the pretty picture people like to paint. It was a pretty place to grow up. But it has always been haves and have nots. And it always will be. So i’ll be gone. Oh and mary, do you live here? Maybe best not to say anything until you do, eh?
Report abuse
Either you want your island to sort itself out or you don’t care. You seem confused. We are all entitled to have an opinion on what is happening in Sark. We don’t have to live there for that. I’m from Guernsey and have happy memories of trips to Sark. Hope you’re happier soon.
Report abuse
Hello The man.
As a Sarkee you have voted for Democracy. Now you see it in action. personally I love it.
You are the very people to sort it out. You as in all the Islanders.
You will decide what sort of Sark you want. who you elect and who you don’t.
If you want a Helipad, sky scrapers, cars, a railway, you will get them. It is for you to decide and you alone.
I personally don’t think one person or organisation, however backed, should be trying to dictate to or criticise the rest of the Island or say how they should live their lives. Especially when they are unelected.
If you you don’t like who you put in charge. you change them at the balot box.
The choice, as ever, is yours.
welcome to democracy Sark style.
Report abuse
Well done. FB, you have got a lot of the plot.
However, don’t get too carried away with the rather poorly thought through idea that gives power to people with time to waste on politics that some call “democracy”.
Look where “democracy” has dumped Europe and the USA. Look how little those in the Middle East who have had the western notion foist upon them are dealing with it.
Meanwhile, the fastest growing [in just about everything] is now China, which is ruthlessly exploiting its long and deep appreciation of the weaknesses of human nature in its successful race for global domination. How democratic is that?
Report abuse
Flame boy,
As much as I like your comments, I fear you have missed the point. WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY HERE! It is basically like an unelected Junta controlling the freely elected members here. So when they say “Oh yes, Sark has a democractic society, believe me it’s complete CRAP!
Report abuse
By unelected Junta, I assume you refer to the shadowy offshore organisation that controls the island economy and has even proved the point by sacking everyone it empoyed, and closed all the businesses it operated?
Report abuse
There seem to be quite a few issues involved. I live in Somerset and don’t know all the facts but do know that helicoptering an elderly lady who’s in a coma would be daft unless the helicopter was of the medical emergency type with room for a stretcher. Does Delaney have any medical knowledge or understanding? Who told him that using the Barclay’s helicopter would have been better for the patient? Is the GMC now involved? To devils_advocate, presumably the 400+ who did not march included children and the elderly or is 600ish the voting population? I hope Sark’s problems can be resolved fairly and without money being the main influence.
Report abuse
Devils Advocate.
If a quarter of Guernsey’s population (15,000 people) decided to protest on our streets it would be the biggest March the island had ever seen and certainly not something that could be ignored. Your attempt to dismiss them as a minority is pathetic.
Report abuse
To ‘The man,’ surely you want the island’s problems sorted out fairly? Sitting on the fence doesn’t help. It’s obvious that most Sark residents dislike Delaney and his newsletter and maybe the only way to convince the man that he’s bad for Sark as far as the majority is concerned, is to have some kind of secret ballot so that the fear element is eliminated.
Report abuse
A secret ballot would be ideal, lets just make sure that the returning officer is completely independant of either parties! And while we’re at it. Lets have a referendum on a few other issues like shipping, waste management, roads, the way taxpayers money is spent, harbours ….etc…
Report abuse
How would others know about it if it was secret?
Report abuse
didn’t Sark have such a thing with its election?
now let me think…how did that turn out for SEM???
Report abuse
Precisely, But the European way is to keep voting for as long as it takes to get the result you want.
Report abuse
Devils Advocate,,
Taking into account that there are at least 80/85 children on the island, and its half term when alot of people take their yearly holiday due to it being the only time they can with Sark being a summer tourist place,, plus there are an alot of people who can not be seen to protest, as either they or members of their families are employed by SEM ,,and they are not in a postion to stand up and be counted for FEAR of losing their jobs,and do remember that they are fond of spouting that they employ over 100 people,,,, even thought it is known that many of their own employees are as equally as disgusted by the attacks levelled at our doctor by SEM/SNL ,, (by a man who is totally unqualified in medical matters,,)and who has a penchance for writing things that only give one fifth of the story,, and thoses are invarably distaughted, and alot of true facts are never printed by the SNl as it is not in their intrest,or serves they cause,(,which by the way is to get helipads on the the island to ferry their hotel guest to and from the island,,,
Do you live here!!! because I think not as your commemts are so flawed,, And as for giving the SNL far wider publiity,, yes I,m sure they needed this kind!!!! just look at the majority of the posts on this whole affair,,and I don,t think they have come out smelling of roses ..do you!!!!! and if they are SO convinved that so many Islands support them and the need for a helicopter to be used for every emergency,plus they question the doctors reasons etc,, they could always organised a protest march of their own and see how many turn out for that ,,because by your reckoning at least 400+ would show up…but everyone knows that wont happen because they prefer to hide behind the so called banner of “Free Press” the kind that is looked over by lawyer before being printed ,, and cannot be challenged in a court…and how can we the Island ever afford to counter such a rag when up against the kind of wealth that SEM/SNL have at their disposal… So please remember that a vast majority of us chose to live here long before Mr delaney and his employers arrived ,,and we all excepted the way of live that was well established here.. we are not chained to the place and it has always been a transceint place ,nobody is force to stay ,,and some don,t ,, if we were as down trodden SNL protrays why oh why would so many people stay here,,
Report abuse
Oh Sprotley.
Well you certainly need not apply,,,
but let me guess now, who would you recommend,, Maybe that man of the people Mr Delaney…. as he is reknowned for his totally unbaised outlook…
Report abuse
Toasty,
I’d vote for however made themselves accountable. Again, I dont work and will never work for SEM\SNL. But true to form you’re another one who would exclude someone because their view doesn’t match your’s!
Who would you exclude next? People who don’t believe in god or is a vegeterian or doesn’t believe in the tooth fairy? I say INCLUDE everybody, and that way the vote is fair….whatever the outcome!
Report abuse
Sprotley
What are you going on about!!!! you responded to a post regarding a secret ballot ,,and implied we would need someone other than our present returning officer,,,, I asked who you would have do that job,,,as all your post are pro SNL.. then you go off about how I think only people of a certain type or mindset should be allowed to vote,, seriously,, when did I state such a thing.
I NEVER said that anyone should be excluded from voting,,!!!! So please refrain from posting replies to my comments implying that I have stated things that are clearly not in my postings,,,
Report abuse
Toasty.
If I have misread your post then I apologise, The only non Sarkee with any integrity in the CP’s is CN, in my mind. I’m sure he would have found a balanced way out of this mess. The only real reason he hasn’t progressed further is that he is too honest!
Report abuse
THE MAN
You must be another SNL troll.
You must think that everyone is really stupid.
There have been many attempts to undermine Saturdays protest and just like yours all have failed miserably !
You can watch the movie here http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_guernseynews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=498154
If you need a lesson in counting perhaps your masters will send you on a course.
Report abuse
If the SNL is so offensive to people an attempt could be made to introduce a law to outlaw anyone that delivers one into a letterbox with a restricting notice on it.
However, I feel that it would be in your best interest not to do so because the SNL appears to be it’s own worst enemy.
Report abuse
To stifle freedom of speech and govern media is a backward step experienced in countries where the inhabitants tend to seek asylum elsewhere.
Those are basic rights afforded to all of us enshrined in law in all but the most corrupt parts of the world. Places where the worst atrocities imaginable are the norm because they’re places where opposition is suppressed by the wicked few that hold power.
Feudalism is no different. Rapes and murders are not a feature here but many are left wondering what’s what with many of the decisions taken without consultation, clarification or the basic right to even question the reasoning.
What I have noticed is an awful amount of noise being made by the very people that have publicly declared they don’t receive the newsletter.
It must continue whilst feudalism exists. It’s the only way the scales can be balanced.
When self serving politics bound by secrecy and unaccountability is a thing of the past then the letter will naturally take a more positive tone.
It’s very enlightening to the many that have been wronged by feudalism in the past.
Tony Ventress
How are you getting along with providing me with the details I requested?
The readers will be forming their own opinions with the lack of response to a legitimate request.
It’s this very basic issue that makes many of us feel passionately alienated and naturally aggrieved by the current situation.
Is it too much to expect openness and transparency in the twenty first century I wonder?
Only here and a few other places around the world it is!
Report abuse
Sark Resident
It always used to be that patriotism was the last refuse of a scoundrel, these days human rights and freedom of speech are the more fashionable get-out clauses of the irresponsible and disruptive whose own less than persuasive arguments have failed to gain any credibility or traction with their peers.
Freedom of speech is something that needs to be respected and not abused. The SNL’s mission has nothing to with respect and everything to do with abuse. The SNL mercilessly and ruthlessly leverages this vacuous phrase in pursuit of SEM’s numerous commercial interests. And note that the SEM is apparently (it has not been denied yet) a British Virgin Island Company, for all your transparency fans!
We also note that you jump on the opportunity to use the name of one of the few present with the bottle to identify themselves here, and then you bully him. Your master has taught you well. Overall, nice try, but I don’t think you will have added any supporters for the SNL cause with your less than impressive debating skills in this forum.
Report abuse
Refuse? A truly magnificent literal there Argus. Keep one of those eyes on the typos, eh? :-)
Report abuse
@ peter. Yes, you’re right. I do think everyone is stupid. You included. You because you instantly assume i’m an snl troll trying to do whatever you think i’m doing. Everyone else because they’ve ruined sark. Not just delaney and his letter, but the chief pleas as well. I do not agree with 95% of what the newsletter says. I cannot stress that enough. However he has, on occasion, made valid points. Recently not so many! But chief pleas have acted like a bunch of spoiled children who run to mummy cos they dont get their own way. There are so many problems on this island and i just wish our democratically elected government would sort them out before putting all their energy into fighting delaney. I wish delaney would shut up, let people get on with their lives and at least try to keep out of the islands affairs. You can insult me and call me whatever you wish but the truth is i am from sark and in the last 5 years i’ve watched my island deteriorate into a heap of petty in-fighting whilst i cant afford a house. So i’ll be gone by the summer and the rest of the island can wallow in the mess they’ve created.
Report abuse
@The Man.
Well spoken, maybe we ought to start the “True Democratic Party” See you in the Mermaid later for a party conference!
Report abuse
Was 120 just PR spin?
According to Mr Delaney only 30-35 marched on his office and now another person who was there, states there were about 40 and the rest were people at a jumble sale.
How many people posting on this subject marched past the SEM office, I guess there must be a one or two!!
I can imagine how some protesters may have gone about trying to recruit further members, something like:-
P. Hey come join our march on the SEM office.
JSP. No I’m busy – not interested
P. You must be Kevin Delaney in disguise then or we have got your number, and we’re bored, or must be a troll.
Report abuse
Well, I was there and I counted at least 3,645, 5 dogs, a horse and 4 cats.
So then, Holmes, using your superior IQ and magnificent powers of deduction, kindly work out the average of all the numbers offered, and you will have your answer… :-P
Report abuse
do we include the mice &rats that are in the houses on route in that number as well? According to some they would have shown there support for the demo as well, had it not been so cold or the fact they were nawing on my chicken feed. We could always include the sparrows, that will sure increase the numbers!
Report abuse
Nah. The rats all hid in the SEM office.
Report abuse
I was quoting Mr Delaney’s version of events, not endorsing it.
As I am not on Sark at present, and so was not there, I cannot comment on how many were at the demonstration. However if you were there and counted 120 people I have no reason to disbelieve you. in any case thr e truth will be none to the people there.
However It would be a good thing if people who are prepared to be named in public and who were there could confirm the number once and for all. There were some people prepared to be interviewed on camera perhaps one of them could do it.
I would regard a demonstration of 45 adults out of a total population of 600 as pretty impressive. A demonstration of 120 would be(was) a very serious matter.
Report abuse
Once upon a time, the troubled people of the community shouted at the trees and the fish, now they post on boards like these.
Consider for a moment a doctor looking for a job and reading the advert for the apparently idyllic position of “Sark Island Doctor – click here for details…”
And then consider the reaction of any sane applicant as he does a spot of background research and google delivers a stream of horror that makes the village of Royston Vesey (as in “League of Gentlemen”) seem like a holiday camp.
I was going to suggest that the best the people of Sark could hope for a medical office with no working understanding of English, but these days, the Chrome browser’s instant translate fixes even that. So we probably have to look forward to a medic that speaks no English, and has limited IT savvy.
Err.. own goal? Ahem.
“Dear Guernsey Press, we’ve done with this discussion, and we are mostly agreed that we know who the guilty are, so would you be kind enough to delete the lot, please? Thanks!”
Report abuse
Dear Sarkwatch,
Own goal? yeah on both sides, I’d agree to that. However, to which ever medic arrives then a proper protocol has to be put in place on this issue.And that issue won’t be resolved until questions asked are answered, Today, not next week or month, today!
So Dear Guernsey Press, please let this open and frank debate continue as it is the only place were issues are actually vented in the open with out fear of reprisials, ie job lost, shunned in the street, abused in the pub, told to get the next ferry off the island, etc
Report abuse
Dear Mr (?) Sprotley
It is the custom of some magazines to have a “guest editor” for an issue.
How about you take a turn?
It could not possibly be any worse, and I think we could all learn a lot from your input and “worm’s eye view” of what is going on.
By the way, one firm rule – you would not be allowed to spend anything on legal fees – either when compiling an issue, or defending its consequences.
Report abuse
Ms, actually. Anyway, as I’ve already said in another thread, I wouldn’t write for the SNL. The Free Democratic Sark NewsLetter, maybe! I just hate to think how much it’s going to cost me in freight, nevermind the cost of the paper & ink!
Report abuse
in response to the comments by the man below,
I was at the meeting that was supporting the doctor, and indeed counted upwards of ninety people who were soley there to show their support for the doctor, as was my belief, hence my wish to be there.
there was also a similar amount of people inside the hall, who could be suggested were there to support the doctor aswell, although were maybe worried to be seen to be showing support for the doctor.
all in all i would suggest that there was indeed approxiamately 150 people gathered at the hall, inside and out, that is 150 people who would not have been there at that time on a saturday, in half term.
the group that then chose to march towards la colinette, was reduced to about fifty, as some people felt, showing support for the doctor is one thing, but continuing onto a anti-newsletter march was another. I was not one of these, choosing to show my distaste for a publication that serves no purpose other than to cause a divde in the community.
forcing its opinions down peoples throats, because it is like a car crash, as much as you know you cant, shant and shouldnt look at, you do, because your interested in how bad it actually is.
In the interest of fairness and accuracy. There were 120 people at the island hall, most had gathered for a jumble sale. About 40 protesters turned up and tried to get the jumble shoppers to follow them on the march. Most didn’t. So , purely in the interest of accuracy, there truly were only about 40 protesters on the march. Yes i live here, no i dont want an arguement, i just want my island to sort itself out. On both sides.
Report abuse
It has often been said that for some people, facts get in the way of a good argument, and nobody needs look any further than within a few of the threads debating several Sark issues over the past couple of weeks.
There are many who would wish to persuade others to “march with them”, but they employ a strange method, one is to avoid debating any (on subject) factual point that may be cited and/or using the more puerile attack of either directly stating or inferring someone is a troll, or part of the SEM staff etc…
I have concluded that many of those people may be unable to debate the facts because they have not read SNL’s, that they complain in ignorance of any facts and could therefore become part of the problem.
I am considering creating an open forum styled web site, which would enable anyone who has the desire, to debate the many issues that face Sark based upon facts.
The SNL’s would no doubt be heavily featured as would any official press release and stories carried by other media outlets.
Perhaps it could be called the Voice of Sark, with some caveat’s, personal attacks on members of the public, off subject ranting, personal abuse to others on the forum whether direct or inferred, would all be blocked, to ensure that the forum was where facts are facts and tittle tattle is left in the gutter. It could cover all the islands government figures, perhaps enabling them to respond to questions from the public etc..
Surely this would be a good idea, yes/no?
Report abuse
Devils Advocate
The problem with that idea I,m sorry to say is that Sark is such a devided community,, and no matter how you wish to paint it the Newsletter is at the heart of that,, “gone are the days” as they say,,.
There are alot of people who genuinely fear for the future of this stunningly beautiful little rock,, but how this will end is anyone,s guess, it is a major tragedy onfolding infront of our very eyes and everyone seems powerless to stop it, so many people hate living here now, and yes I,m getting that way too,, If I say that I feel the Newsletter stopping would help dramatically, this is not a line about being Anti Barclay /Pro Sark,, its about taking the pressure off a keg that is going to implode this Island…it,s because then I truly believe people would start to debate the things that happen in Chief Pleas, and start to ask our Counseliers to explain more the hows, whens and why are money is spent,or that law or that reform is needed,, but as it is the animouscity and fear is to great, for anyone to be seen to be Pro /Anti,, and it is the biggest stumbling block this island has…
If and its a big if the SNL stopped I really do believe things would settle down,, but that is Never Going to happen ,as Mr Delaney has stated ..
So feel free to try if you so wish ,,but expect more of the same,, how sad is it to be typing such a thing,,it makes me realize just what a B****y mess were in and the chances of ever getting out of it look beyond bleak,,
Report abuse
Welcome to the fray Toasty, I guess we have both watched from a safe distance up to now.
But I think we ought to rejoice, as a lot of pressure will have been released by recent events, and it is quite unlikely that things will ever be quite the same. Which has to be good, doesn’t it?
The SNL has at last been outed as the root of much of the evil which has been suppressing free speech and debate on the island. The exact and ironic opposite of its shouty claims.
So the SNL is now a spent force with no credibility; and the sooner it is put out of everyone’s misery, the sooner the Island can get back to the process of civil debates and discussions about the community and its future.
Report abuse
The central problem with this apparently reasonable suggestion is “who has the editorial control?”
Report abuse
@ D_A
As one who sets out to establish an impression of conscientious attention to detail, I am surprised that you do not know that there is no apostrophe in “SNL’s” or “caveat’s”.
And then you fail to insert one where needed:
“islands government figures”.
Kids today, eh?
Report abuse
D_A must be paid by the yard to write all this wibble; I know I wish I was! Anyway, I hope the rewards are spent wisely in independent Sark establishments.
But the curtains are parting at last, and all this effort now seems to have been research for the occasionally suggested “return to reasoning” by the SEM interests, now that the SNL has no credibility and no chance of any credible input to the island debate.
We even get the advance warning:
“the SNL’s would no doubt be heavily featured”
Oh dear. Another example of the “greengrocer’s possessive apostrophe”; and there was I, thinking I had a worthy adversary at last.
But rather than “The Voice of Sark”, perhaps “The Brecqhuo Newsletter” might be a better fit?
Report abuse
Good idea,devils-advocate,
could call it “rent-a-gob”.
Report abuse
devils_advocate – do you actually live on Sark. Come on, be truthful now
Report abuse
Les – it would be a major result (and surprise) if it turned out that devils_advocate lived on the planet earth, never mind Sark.
Report abuse
I was there me at the demo in support of the doctor eh. I have an o’level in maths me, despite being a donkey. There were about 120 of us at the demo even though some of us oldies could’t make it as far as the Collinette. however, I’m reliably informed that others joined the March en route. Not to mention the many SEM employees who reluctantly sat in the bar, support but not daring to show their faces for fear of their jobs. If you count them in the number is even higher!The jumble sale was postponed for half an hour because of the demo and some forty or so people went back for it.
Report abuse
“for fear of their jobs”
…and of course the SNL will screech that those who didn’t march will have now had spells cast on them by the Establishment witch doctor. Are your hens laying, eh?
So it doesn’t take a genius to work out that there is never going to be a resolution unless there is an enquiry with evidence taken in private.
And such an enquiry should also consider the only long term solution – which has to be a form of “Island stake” with shared ownership of the overbearing economic reality that is SEM.
Sark IS different. Rejoice. It is NOT a “mini me” of European bureaucracy that can be lumbered with all the nonsense and irrelevance that such a status entails.
So then…. Calling Lord McNally..?
Report abuse
Argus,
There is no one more indoctrinated as the indoctrinator, and by the sounds of it, you follow hook, line & sinker of the Estabishment line. Sark is different, thank god but if we don’t move somewhere along with the times then we are sunk! Full stop! Do we really want a 1950′s Pontins look about us?
There are alot of people on the Island who don’t care about other peoples’ jobs, They have already made their money elsewhere and come to retire here . There are a growing number of Sarkees who see disatisfaction with the things are being run, the endless bickering between the two parties, nothing is getting done to resolve the real issues, IE Housing, Employment, cheaper travel and freight, not just for the community but also for visitors, they are after all our breadline.
The establishment needs replacing, with people who are actually someway qualified to make the right decisions in their field of expertise. At the moment, it’s a case of cosy up to the Boss to get the best job, and that’s not right or fair in anyones mind except those doing the cozying.
In a proper community, qualified people would be asked to volunteer their services to get the right job done in their field. Ie planning, health, public works, environment etc
No, I’m not a commumist, they have nothing and want everybody else to have nothing as well. But surely in our community,a basic right is for the party to work for the people’s good, at the moment it seriously feel’s that the party’s good outweighs the good of the people.
Report abuse
Well said.
Report abuse
Gosh – has the “Establishment” suggested confiscating the SEM yet? If so, I missed it.
But for all you know, the majority of the islanders (and visitors) might want a 1950s Pontins look about it.
So let’s ask them – democratically. And as for this comment:-
“In a proper community, qualified people would be asked to volunteer their services to get the right job done in their field. Ie planning, health, public works, environment etc”
And when they do, the SNL bullies, harasses, intimidates and insults them.
You and the handful of people giving Delaney the opportunity to copy favourable comments, and claim that these are the voice of the people, make the fundamental error of failing to realise that the SNL fans are clearly in the minority of those who are willing to turn up and offer their opinions here. The ratio is about 8:1 in in favour of canning the SNL.
“Democracy” sucks, eh?
The sheer innuendo, defiance, insolence and sneering of the SNL is hard to defend if you have an ounce of civility. Which, thankfully, most Sark folk still seem to have in spades.
Report abuse
Eeyore..
Sorry to correct you, but the the Jumble was not postponed,, even though someone did ask for it to be ,,,
I personally agree with that decision as it would have been totally wrong to have done so as it would have dragged a charity fund raiser into it,, and put the organisers of the said chaity in a difficult position….
Report abuse
Go John!!! Totally tripe, I agree.
Report abuse
@The Man. You seem to forget that Chief Pleas as it stands is the result of a democratic election, in defiance of an odious attempt at bullying by SEM.
@Devil’s Advocate. As your proposed newsletter would not include personal attacks and vendettas, I can presume that Kevin Delaney would not be a contributor?
Report abuse
I agree Sprotley about C.N being one of the few with integrity and too honest for his own good! Would that they were all of his ilk!
I could name thirty + locals and Sark loving ex pat with families on island who would be great on C.P’s as they share the same attributes but a couple have already pulled out because they were never in the majority and knew that if they said anything in C.P’s they would have been made a victim by the ‘top table’ and/or realised it would be futile as the ‘Great & the Good’rule. The rest are too scared to even put up as the ‘top table’ and a cabal of ex pats control this island.
Ref. the interviews on tv concerning the ‘Support the doctor ‘walk, why were no real Sarkese interviewed? How many old Sark families were on the march? They interview an incomer who has made herself a part of the establishment. Nothing personal to her but where are the Sarkese in all of this mix?
Ian D yes the mauling of Phil was a total cockup and own goal in my view.
The Man – yes I totally understand your feelings and that probably the only way forward for a lot of people is to leave and some already have but then what about the people that cannot leave and are left with the two present cabals? I have seen several good people who have tried to get voted in but have lost out to people who are part of the ‘elite’ of Sark. Even if they had got in as such they would have been put on minor committees if at all! Unless you live, or have lived on Sark – (Sark resident – to stifle freedom etc.) Yes totally agree with every word you say in that posting.
I subscribed to supporting the doctor feature but not on political grounds, only as he is a good doctor. I do not know his politics or whether he has had to toe the line with the ‘Great and the Good’ as they consider themselves. Marching No! Anyone who marches becomes a target of one side or the other sad to say!
Just to have 28 Conseillers who only care about the island as a whole and its residents, keeping taxes down, transparancy and integrity, have no personal agenda and are strong enough characters to question out loud what on earth is going on behind closed doors and not be bullied into just voting for what the top table wants (via secret unamed ballot) would be an ideal that I do not see anywhere over the horizon so far! Sad but true. One can dream on though!
Report abuse
OJ: Well the situation is clearly intractable.
I tell you what, let’s have a democratic election and let the people decide! Now there’s a novel idea. Why has no one thought of it already? It seems obvious.
And if God Hep Us, the SEM agenda prevails, then The Seigneurie Newsletter can set about savaging the winning team. And anyone employed by any non-SEM employer can be summarily dismissed.
But just how long do you think the boys of Brecqhuo would put up with that?
Wake up and smell the coffee. A precondition of ANY way ahead is not more SNL, and preferably, no more KDL (the “L” can stand for anything you like, but probably not “lovely”.)
Report abuse
Razzer,
please tell me you really can’t that ignorant. There can be no true demorcracy while the top table of CP’s stands as it is. What The Man, OJ and myself are venting about is the true inequality affecting the whole of the island, imposed by about 6 people, KD as well. Get rid of them and start afresh, no bullying, no intimidation everybody on an equal footing. then hopefully the true karma of the island may just return. I, & I’m sure the rest of the people dont want an arab spring. Gunshot wounds and boat journeys don’t really go hand in hand!
Report abuse
I probably am that ignorant. The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know.
In any gathering of 600 individuals there are going be at least 20 or 30 who will have locked horns with authority, feel aggrieved – and will be keen to engineer opportunities for revenge. However, your “Animal Farm Solution” is probably not the best answer. And whatever summarily replaces the present elected “Establishment” is BOUND to get up the nose of someone else; and quite possibly more than the present beleaguered bunch.
Now I shall step into ever deeper and less charted waters in this discussion: even if everything the SNL said was true, and that Michael Beaumont ate small children, Reg Guille worried sheep and Jan Guy could caused the wheels to fall of bicycle just by looking at it, I am moved to suggest that in the real practical world of Island Life, who gives a rat’s posterior, as long as the vast majority of Sark people were able to lead undisturbed and productive lives? And that they get their opportunity to change the players at regular elections.
This lot may not be perfect, but they have never had an opportunity to get on with the job without the ghastly bile-laden SNL on their cases – both collectively and individually – intent upon fulfilling Delaney’s hysterical but revealing post election prophecy that Sark had committed “suicide”.
Old Sark managed to rub along with practical solutions for many of the things that are now subject to costly process and tedious vexatious legalities – made necessary by the Barclay Euro court challenges, and the sanctimonious SNL’s efforts to drive CP and its occupants to distraction.
You may rejoice in this brave new world of highly granular transparent accountability, but it has a VERY real cost that the islander now moans about at every opportunity. Simplistically, it is the equivalent of stopping and ticketing every car that exceeds the speed limit by 0.001 mph, without taking into account prevailing road conditions, or the fact that it is 4am in the morning
You only have to read the rambles under the name of “Devils_Advocate” where he/she attempts to count the number of angels on the legal pinhead, to realise quite how unproductive and pointless this approach to life becomes – especially in a world where far more practical and obvious issues clamour for attention.
And let it be noted that however robust and irritable this debate gets, you are the first poster hereabouts to introduce the matter of gunshot wounds. I suggest you very carefully and thoughtfully retract that comment to restore the mood.
Report abuse
Razza
Whoa there…
“as long as the vast majority of Sark people”
The marvel of the daftness of the western concepts of “democracy for sale”, is that a majority of one is all that is required to claim the prize.
Remember those hanging chads in the GW Bush election?
Report abuse
in answer to Razza below, that was a tongue in cheek, about shotgun wounds, ie, if it ever happened like that, we’d still have to enjure a 40-60 minute boat ride with wounds aboard the Christine!
Old sark was better, it wasn’t perfect but Even ol’ Sybil knew when to let common sense prevail, she must be turning in her grave with what has gone on, in last 37 years!
Report abuse
@ Sprot
Thanks for making that clear. It would be wonderful if all here felt “safe” to have precisely this sort of coommon sense discussion in the hall.
But you know as well as I do what has changed the mood more than anything in the past 10 years, and it was not the Seigneur or even the Establishment.
Also please correct me if I am wrong, but the use of a helicopter for any relevant emergency if judged by those on the spot with the responsibility and experience to judge, has never been in question has it? The battle lines drew around the creation of a permanent helipad on SEM property.
Report abuse
@ dectora yes, i know, democratically elected etc etc etc. I voted. And watched as chief pleas became a load of self serving hypocrites. They rattle on about doing what the people want but they dont. The chief pleas meetings are a joke. Just a meeting to agree publicly what has been decided in private. There is no debate, everything is done behind closed doors. The man in the street, ie. Me, doesn’t get a look in. At least with the proper feudal government they didn’t pretend that they were there for any other reason apart from wealth and land. The new lot voted each other in and pass laws they dont understand. I watched one debate stopped in the middle because the seneschal thought it had gone on to long. It was a serious debate about a serious issue. The establishment silenced the only voice of reason and voted through their new law. And thats the way things are done here. Its very much do as i say. So, believe me. I have not forgotten that we have a ‘democracy’ and why we have it. However i’m sick of people dumping all the blame for this mess on delaney. Ideally we could put him in a box with the rest of chief pleas and send them to an uncharted island far away. They could argue all day long and the rest of us could sort out the mess that this overpriced inaccessible island has become.
Report abuse
here, here. We all need to get together and write a letter to the proper owner of the Island, The queen. Let her know our reason for asking for the fief to be taken back
Report abuse
No number of wrongs can make a right.
The mess really is down to Kevin “Sack ‘em all” Delaney, and the money that prevents him being taken properly to account for his many sins – of that there is no escape.
Only an entirely impartial incomer is going to be able to make a rational and objective assessment – and what chance of that is there as long as the SNL is left to do its mischief? None.
Report abuse
The man.
You write it as it is.
Sadly a lot of people posting do not live on Sark and therefore do not understand the reality of living presently on Sark. Easy to comment from an armchair even though I am sure their intentions are honourable and their suggestions well meaning.
As you say, with the land owners we knew what they wanted but they did not interfere with the everyday life of other residents or make stupid laws that affected everyones way of life ( as in changing mooring laws, anti smoking, increasing taxes, building regs.with daft rulings et al.)and were content for everyone else to do their own thing. The deputies did also do some good bringing to C.P’s attention and the then Seneschal things that needed tinkering with on island but mostly C.P’s left people to get on with their lives in a peaceful and serene manner most of the time.
Report abuse
Have just read (as much as I could) of the latest offering of torpor-inducing bile from Delaney’s (Island Resident) keyboard. Had a particular laugh at the back page – start the book burning all you Fourth Reich Sarkees! (Think I know which publication will be first on the fire.)
Anyway, whether it was 30 protestors or 300, it’s good to see direct action against this most odious organisation which is tearing apart your beautiful island and its community. Just to inform you of a small token of solidarity from your sister isle of Guernsey: my partner (born in Sark) from her position of relative authority, has just pulled the plug on around £4m of trust work previously performed by Mourant Ozannes. Her own quiet protest at Gordon Dawes (Devil’s Advocate) continued involvement in the defence of the indefensible.
Report abuse
Simon
Well done to your partner. Let’s hope that’s a trend. But were I an MO client, I would be even more scared if D_A really is the famous Mr Drawers, and not his pet monkey or some kid doing a half-term project.
Either D_A is carefully pretending to be unable to command the Queen’s English in a sensible and coherent way, or he/she/it is the product of the lower streams of the Guernsey educational process.
How about you filthy rich Guerns pass the hat round and see if you can help the Sark Island Trust to acquire the SEM assets and put an end to this colossal embarrassment on your doorstep? We’ll even send you a crate of finest Chateau Barclay in gratitude.
Report abuse
nice work Simon
I hope that your partner let them know why the plug was being pulled
Report abuse
You might never know how happy you have made us.
Sark ;-))))
Report abuse
What a petty little troll of a man you are. Any substance to your tall story or are you conveniently paying lip-service to the people and wanting them to believe anybody in their right mind would turn away profitable business due to moral beliefs?
Back it up or shut up!
Report abuse
Legal Points
Please read the posting again. I think Simon says that his partner “pulled the plug” – implying withdrew the business from one firm, with the implication being that another less contentious firm is now going to be doing it?
On the other hand, if this is an act of conscience which cost that conscience £4m, then just maybe there are still some folks for whom the dubious practises of even the richest of clients eventually becomes too tainted to stomach?
Report abuse
i think you misunderstand. SJ is saying that his partner has simply sought legal advice from an alternative firm. She has not turned away any business – she is providing the business.
Report abuse
@Legal Points
Thank you for your eloquent contribution!
I couldn’t sum up the attitude of ‘some’ advocates in a more succinct and ironic fashion if I tried!
Indeed the idea that someone would turn away work for moral reasons does appeal to the ‘people’ at large. You seem so surprised by something that so many of us take for granted?
There are still good people in this world and in our island who value more than just their own personal gain. Like so many who want to change things in the Channel Islands in general I doubt that you ‘get’ exactly what makes Sark and the other islands so special. Our sense of community, respect for our surroundings and our tradtions is what makes this such a beautiful place to live.
Report abuse
@ Old Jay and The man
How it used to be worked well for sure – I don’t think there’s many true locals who don’t wish that things were as they were instead of what we have now.
Who have we got to blame for ramming ‘democracy’ down our throats?
The ‘investment’ in our Island is merely a way to buy favour or failing that, to force the issue.
I’m not saying that feudalism was perfect, nor that the new democracy couldn’t work a lot better than it does. The problem though is the huge mountain of money piled up on the other side of the Gouliot that is bending reality on our beautiful island.
We may be stubborn but we are friendly and reasonable people and famous for it. If it was laid out before us exactly which laws they would like us to keep etc. for them to then leave us alone, I’m sure we could swallow our stubborn pride and come to some agreement and put an end to this mess.
What I don’t agree with at all though is the way that they have gone about trying to get what they want. Bullying, intimidation and threats on such a grand scale have no place in Sark or anywhere else in the Western world. The fact that our Queen has not stepped into help is a disgrace.
It breaks my heart that my island is slowly being destroyed because of the greed of a very few, and the helplessness of so many good and honest people.
Report abuse
SdSarkee – it can never be said enough that what has been imposed on Sark has very little to with democracy. Ask any Greek or Afghan.
The US/European notion of a democracy imposed on centuries-old established ways of life, is presently causing mayhem in the middle east. It has opened the way for all sorts of violent factional feuds, but mostly for money to buy influence.
Hopefully the comments around this story of the outing of the SNL and its tireless bullying, harassment and intimidation are going to force change on the Island, where precisely the practical viewpoint you propose can once again be part of an open debate.
Report abuse
Simon Jones. Thank you for your support which is much appreciated, as it is from all our Guernsey friends. I am delighted to hear the news that Mourant Ozannes has lost £4m of trust work – the more the better. Sarkees will keep up the fight against Delaney & Co’s bullying, intimidation and harrassment and we WILL win the day.
Report abuse
Simon
Do you mean that Mourant Ozannes have lost £4m in fees, or that they’ve lost a trust that has £4m of aseets?
Report abuse