‘I swear on my daughter’s life that I have nothing…’
Thursday 16th February 2012, 9:00AM GMT.
David Shields and Emma Pring were sentenced to eight years and six months and to six years respectively.
A WOMAN caught importing heroin into the island swore on her three-year-old daughter’s life that she was innocent.
UK residents David Shields and Emma Pring were travelling to Guernsey on a ferry from Weymouth on Thursday 14 July last year.
Shields, 31, of Kirkilton Avenue, Weymouth, had a package containing 10.9 grams of 8% heroin and 17 tablets containing diazepam internally concealed.
Pring, 24, of Canberra Crescent, Littlemore, Weymouth, had 24 grams of 6% heroin concealed in her jeans. The street value of heroin combined was between £10,470 to £20,940. The value of the diazepam was approximately £34.
Shields admitted counts of being knowingly concerned in the importation of the Class A drug heroin and being knowingly concerned in the importation of the Class C drug diazepam. He was sentenced to eight years and six months in prison for importing heroin and two years concurrent for importing diazepam.
Pring, who admitted the same two charges, was sentenced to six years in prison for importing heroin and 18 months concurrent for the second count.
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I do feel kind of bad for people in these situations…
I mean, it all stems from childhood and not having a positive direction and upbringing. It is sad they they have collectively lost fourteen years of their lives for making a mistake like this.
I know that they were bringing a harmful substance in to the island but I’ve always held the opinion that if somebody wants to take a chemical like heroin…they should be allowed to take it. I know there are a thousand arguments for things like this. The typical one being”What if he or she had offered heroin to my son or daughter in the playground, or the park?!” Well…I’m sorry but if your son or daughter were willing to accept such an offer then it’s as much your fault as the dealer.
Pushers are very rare in the drug sub-culture. It isn’t all like that residual 1960′s propaganda. These people need help…not prison.
I wish I could run the system for a couple of months with a selected group of others…a brand new approach.
Guernsey needs a radical new approach to the way it deals with these crimes (and others). Actually Guernsey needs a completely new approach to most things.
That’s why I’m leaving… Nothing ever seems to get done over here. It’s all ‘left puppet or the right puppet’ when it’s the same outcome regardless.
Well…I’ve ranted enough.
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I completely agree with all of your comments, I left the rock over 15 years ago in part becuse of the draconian laws that marginalise the Island’s youth on a dailybasis and stamp on any kind of freedom of expression and 15 years later nothing has changed.
If you look at the statistics from Portugal since they decriminalised all drugs there is scientific proof that lives have been saved and the culture of violence and gang culture almost entirely eradicated. Food for thought, no?
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@FromAfar
Well said!
Portugal were ridiculed by their surrounding countries when they implemented the ‘seek help and stay out of prison’ philosophy but look who’s laughing now.
They have saved millions in taxes, cleaned the streets of drug related violence and gang culture like you said. And most importantly the one thing people tend to overlook…they improved the general mental/physical well being of the people. Food for thought?! Most definitely!
I don’t blame you for jumping ship sir…
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AK
By your logic the person who has the kind of conscience to sell heroin to a child is the victim? That we should feel so sorry for them and their wasted life? You place just as much blame at the parents feet?
I think instead of making excuses for the individuals involved and placing the blame elsewhere you should make the individual responsible for their own actions. Drug taking is voluntary as is importing drugs, it is a serious offence and I really think the pity party attitude should be put to rest. I’m tired of hearing of it. Your right it is not the 1960s, help is there if you want it in the UK.
From Afar
“Draconian laws that marginalise the Islands youth on a daily basis and stamp on any kind of freedom of expression”. Yeah… unfortunately in this instance there is freedom of speech and that is why you can come out and spout garbage like that in a public forum.
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I believe that people in these situations are unfortunate victims of circumstance.
A nation is judged by it’s mercy and understanding Dani.
It’s not about making excuses, it’s about finding the reason and dealing with the root of the problem very practically.
Prison is just not practical in this sort of case.
Where is the victim? of this crime?
The next person who chooses to do drugs?
That is a life choice and there choice to make? If it harms them in some way then it is their choice.
If an Alcoholic starts drinking too much and has been in social situations where he has provided alcohol to other social drinkers (A dealer of alcohol in comparison). Society helps him and rehabilitates him, offers him counselling until he is better or isn’t better (f you know what I mean).
Society does it’s utmost to help an alcoholic. Why not somebody who is addicted to heroin?
It is a bit ‘far out’ but only because of indoctrination and propaganda Dani.
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AK
My opinion is not based on proganda and indoctrination. It is quite arrogant to assume that and if anything the social norm now is that drug taking is acceptable. That is the message you will get from popular media sources such as tv and music and as you can see by this thread the general public so don’t even bother demeaning my opinion by saying I have just listened unquestioningly to what other people have told me. I actually am speaking against the grain.
I think the issue is that instead of people being corrected for their behaviour when they have messed up they are emapthasised with far too much. It leads to comments such as the blame is just as much at the feet of the parents as those who sold the drugs. They could stop doing the drugs anytime you want. They know it is harmful, responsibilty must be taken for your own actions.
I have not said that I do not empathise at all but bending over backwards to accomodate their negative behavour and rationalising it the way you do is not doing them any favours either. Don’t go off on tangents and make this about society. If anything I am constantly saying alcoholics and drug users on this island do need more help… but this can only work when they want to help themselves.
You see a victim of circumstance. I see someone who probably for however long has been using drugs and has not gotten help. Some people just don’t want to sort their lives out. It is not a secret that heroin has dangers. Dealing is worse than using as you help it spread.
As for who are the victims – that is easy. Heroin is a highly addictive drug. People withdraw into themselves and don’t care about themselves properly. Great – it only effects them right? Wrong. They will problems keeping a job as the habit gets worse. Friends and family have to watch someone they care about turn into a functionless shadow of themselves. Maybe they will have their belongings stolen to pay for drugs. Maybe the heroin user will start burgling people in the community for things to sell and making them feel unsafe in their own homes. In some cases it is not unknown for users to earn money by selling themselves. This an improper needle use spreads STD’s. No sweat. It may even mean they cannot even be their to look after their own children properly so the destructive cycle can begin again to someone else.
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And as far as
‘I swear on my daughter’s life that I have nothing…’
What a low tactic they have used to demonize these lost souls. Anyone would say the same in a situation like that if they thought they would get off.
Unless anyone actually believes that there daughter is going to be diagnosed with a terminal illness as a result of that comment.
I mean there is Law of Attraction and there is taking the outright ‘Michael’
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I totally agree AK – utter disgrace.
The child will grow up one day; who knows what emotional harm it will cause knowing her mother said that, probably in panic knowing the game was up.
For the sake of the daughter that particular aspect of the case should have never reached the pages of the media.
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Poor child, now without a mother. It is sad that someone can be so desperate to do something like this. I feel sorry if it was forced upon this woman – but we will never know the truth. Are there really no jobs out there? I mean surely there is a job that can pay this lady so she doesn’t have to import drugs.
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These people never wish to contribute to much other than topping up their system with heroin. The poor child may get to be shown a positive way of life which may help map a different path for her future. Her biggest misfortune is to be born by an addict.
Society has been too accepting and soft in the past. Feeling sorry and being sympathetic is emotions they all abuse until people wise up.
Removing them from society is the only guaranteed way to stop them from eroding the life of others. They couldn’t care less about anything other that feeding their filthy addictions.
When released they should be regularly tested. If a positive test is produced then place them straight back in prison. When society stops tolerating them then maybe a difference will be made.
If the sympathetic apologists saw how they carve all hope and goodness out of neighbourhoods and leave behind ugly misery in places like London they would be less sparing with their well intentioned feelings.
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@OK
You are almost referring to Communism OK.
Did you know that in a colony of bees there is the occasional soldier bee that waits for fruits to ferment and ingests the fermented alcoholic content. The guard bees will stop the intoxicated bee from entering the hive and if he persists he is beaten to death or not allowed back in to the hive…ever.
This structure of existence is very close to communism as it is all for the better good (the state). Individuality is not accepted unless it benefits the state.
You are saying that if somebody affects the structure of society and the life of others in any way then instead of dealing with the problem with mercy and empathy then we should cut them out of society and paste them in prison. Until they fix themselves.
I’m glad you weren’t one of my parents OK.
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What a ridiculous sentence, people get less for killing their mother in this island, or raping children.
Our society is a sick joke when it comes to drug sentencing, heroin causes infintely less damage to society than alcohol, where is the sense in it all? Pure hysteria, with sentencing policy determined by people who have no idea of the reality of drug taking. And by drug taking I include cigarettes, alcohol, and the various other drugs which are legal and therefore presumably classed by the law makers as safer than the illegal ones (although pretty much every study ever undertaken concludes otherwise).
Maybe one of the deputies that read this forum could provide their opinion?
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I agree Shoot it up
Perhaps the Health Minister,who is struggling to juggle the finances to treat the 99% of law abiding citizens on this rock, could pitch in with his thoughts
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Although some sentence is required, 6-10 years is a joke. How much is the actually costing the tax payer and what is this actually proving. Given that this individual is on his second stint, this “deterrent” obviously doesn’t work. Would it not be better and cheaper to jail them for a much short period (say 2 years) then life time ban them from the Channel Islands?
Would the GP like to find out what a 6 year sentence costs the taxpayer.
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I think that would be some very interesting information that surely we are entitled to know as tax-payers. I’m sure it is available somewhere as a public resource.
Anyone know anymore about the costs involved in keeping someone locked up for six years? Food, energy, shelter, medicine, staff etc. etc. It must really add up eh?!
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They’ll be out after three with good behaviour and that constitutes a fair sentence in my book and they should get help whilst inside.
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This sentence is richly deserved. A heroin addict is a scourge on society. They spend their time robbing and pilfering from where ever they can whenever they can when not off their faces on the stuff.
They are a cancer on the good people in society. I’m glad there is a few less seeking to recruit newbies to pass their wisdom off down the line and afford themselves an easier time by using others to do the dirty work for them.
Why people would choose to involve themselves with their ilk is beyond me. I have seen good people’s lives turned upside down by heroin. The lives of others around them are often turned upside down until they realise the best help to offer is none at all.
I have no sympathy at all. Remember they were looking to make money out of the misfortune of lives of people locally. There is a huge problem here. If this is the start of a massive shake-up then I feel it’s about time and hopefully it will do something positive to slow the breeding menace they force upon good people.
People who have had their lives affected by addicts will all say the only help that can be done is to remove them from society, temptation and supply.
It’s a sad fact that the biggest supplier nowadays is the very people that are tasked with helping them. The doctors and referral schemes where they obtain scripts which are often sold to fund the purchase illegal substances. One hand is feeding the other. The end result is they are making things much worse for the people they believe they are helping. The system is also making the lives of the pushers easier and more lucrative.
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Ok, your spot on with your comment ! ,but the dogooders and bleeding hearts will always find an excuse for them,even supply them with needles and methadone . I would not bother with sending them to prison though,its much cheaper to have them hung.
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Ok and Neil,
Thank God you two are talking some sense. I was starting to lose faith in humanity when I was reading how many people are trying to justify what these drug taking/selling scum bags are doing. These two were coming to Guernsey to take advantage of the higher prices they could get for selling drugs here. They don’t care about normal society. Druggys will rob, burgle and destroy whatever they need to get their next fix. They are scum simple as. It is their choice to take drugs in the first place and their choice to carry on. They should be locked up and throw away the key. All this lot trying to say this is a health issue and nota criminal one, to a certain extent maybe, but this does not take into account the people who deal the stuff and rape society. These people are probably claiming state benefbursts at the weekend they take a little trip to Guernsey to make 20 Grand in pocket money. Makes me sick. Their sentences should have been longer. And the whole cost factor that has been brought up, I know it costs to keep people in prison but turn this into a health issue and the costs to the states will go through the roof. Yes these people may have had a tough childhood, but they had their own choices. What about the millions of other people out there who had tough childhoods but ended up living a normal life with a job and a family. Thats just trying to make excuses. Oh well. That’s what I think anyway.
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AK & From Afar
Whilst your arguements may hold water with regard to cannabis they were importing HEROIN with intent to supply ie THEY WERE HEROIN DRUG SMUGGLERS!! They knew the risks but were more concerned by the rewards.
Yes very sorry for the child she is innocent but Guernsey must put in strong sentences to deter these people.
Well done to Customs and well done to the courts.
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Mike, What is your point?
How would it have affected you if they hadn’t been caught?
There are two arguments here…
The choice of an individual who chooses to take Heroin?
And whether or not prohibition has created the crime element surrounding an individual who chooses to take Heroin?
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It affects me as someone who works with teenagers and young adults, someone who cares for them and their futures and would rather that drugs were not made an option for them. Heroin is addictive from the first hit. If even one of my students tried it, out of curiosity or any other reason, I would hate to think they might end up as desperate as this couple. The fact that Customs and the Courts kept this much off of our streets reassures me that it’s not an option that my students would choose to make easily. We all do stupid things as kids. You say it’s our choice to take these substances but when it’s a substance as dangerous as heroin and has the potential to be taken by the young and naive, it becomes an issue that needs to be dealt with firmly.
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Just a point to also note:
Portugal has only decriminalised drug use and not importation or dealing. So the two people above would have both been prosecuted in Portugal.
The reasons for Portugals move was to allow users to be honest and obtain medical help (mainly to reduce spread of HIV/AIDS) without fear of prosecution.
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How long of the sentences will they actually serve? Is it a third?
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Good point
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I too agree with most of the comments in the first five postings but looking at it from another angle what a complete and utter waste of Guernsey taxpayers’ money keeping these two banged up for years on end at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Prison should be reserved for those who through their violent behaviour cause actual physical harm to their fellow citizens. There must be a better, more mature way of dealing with this type of offender.
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Agreed Martino! How is it helping anyone?
It’s not effective. even if it is effective it is not an efficient use of our island’s resources. It’s a waste and this kind of method is Guernsey’s cancer.
Not these two people. They are a minor problem that needs sorting practically and efficiently with the best outcome for everybody involved!
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£20k of Heroin a ‘minor problem’! This was a deliberate smuggling operation including internal concealment of class A drugs.
Within reason users should be treated not punished. However dealers, as in the case above, should receive long custodial sentences.
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Mike. £20k worth of heroin is actually not that much.
It only seems like a lot because it is so heavily controlled.
35grams that they have valued at £571 a gram.
Is it any wonder there is a crime element involved here? If you are addicted to something So expensive and your urge is uncontrollable you have to start burgling peoples houses eh?! Or they have to become a banker. ;)
A real addict could get through a gram a day. There are two of them here so that is a couple of weeks worth to a couple.
It’s not exactly going to poison the whole island is it?!
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Martino – nonesense. Heroin kills people. It is a class A drug and is illegal. Importing (or selling) is in itself an act of violence.
They have broken the law, the law of the land, and are now suffering the consequences.
Its just tough.
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We’re not going to agree on this Gilthead but for me a violent person who rapes a woman or mugs an OAP or physically abuses a child should be put away for a long,long time. These two are relatively minor players in the drugs chain and nowhere near the same level of danger to society than the above.
As others have said, people make a conscious choice to abuse drugs both legal and illegal. They are not forced to take heroin or alcohol or cigarettes or anything else. Just because something is illegal does not make it wrong or right. I’d like to see tobacco made illegal but if this happens I would not want to see people banged up for ridiculously long periods for supplying it to those who are still prepared to take it.
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Heroin doesn’t kill people. They use it medical grade (or whatever the medical version is) very successfully in hospitals, prescribed by doctors and, by and large, I imagine it doesn’t cause untold deaths otherwsie they’d stop.
It is the prohibition of heroin, and all that entails, which kills people. It simply makes a small number of very unpleasant people extremely rich; puts gullible and daft people at great risk; and ruins the lives of many – including idiots and other unfortunates like these two.
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Hahaha. I cannot believe what I am reading. Don’t make me laugh. People OD on heroin all the time. It is a dirty, dangerous drug. The people using it on the street can’t really be put in the same bracket as medical professionals. It is a class A drug for a reason.
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Actually it tends to be the additives the heroin is cut with and the lifestyle the user adopts which tends to kill them. Though very addictive, heroin isn’t all that detrimental to the body.
Legalise/licence and control and you’re got a drug which isn’t cut with a load of rubbish and less crime relating to it’s use because the price wouldn’t be so ridiculously over-inflated.
Less money spent on enforcement and keeping people locked up can be spent on drug education (not just “drugs are baaadddddd, mkay”) and the rehabilitation of people who are addicts.
Though perhaps not a perfectly appropriate parallel, The Netherlands has the lowest use of soft drugs amongst adults yet though still illegal, most soft drugs have been decriminalised. The money saved is spent on educating children about drugs. Leaving them to make their own decision takes away the ‘bad boy/girl’ image from drugs and removes the coolness incentive to a degree. Also, the number of deaths from hard drugs in The Netherlands (where hard drug DEALING is still prosecuted heavily) is amongst the lowest in Europe.
Does this seem like a coincidence or are all you lot so incredibly blinded by the propagandist bull the majority of the west have been churning out for the past eighty or so years? Carrying on with this zero-tolerance approach will only allow naughty people to make lots of money at the expense of you and your stupid kids.
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Martino,heroin addicts rob and steal from their own grandmothers,and have here on the mainland killed and maimed to feed their habits.Come and live where I live and you will soon see that many addicts will resort to violence,and torture to get their next fix.Herion addicts are not worth the oxygen they use.Dont let your faint heart rule your head.
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I agree with AK, fromafar and Martino. Portugal is a good example. The rest of you are just burying your heads in the sand, to blinkered to listen to reason or any other viewpoint due to the constant barrage of anti drugs propaganda. The war on drugs is a sick joke, a complete failure costing tax payers worldwide billions of pounds. And its people like you that prevent any senible debate on the subject, because as soon as its brought up by anyone in government, you lot get on your high horse, jumping up and down with your fingers in your ears, and call for whomever brought up the subject to be removed from their position. As a result nobody in office will touch the subject with a barge pole due to it risking their job. The irony is you lot are probably baby boomers that filled your boots in the 60s.
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Despicable scumbags but it seems a shame if we have to pay for their board and lodging. Don’t we have a reciprocal agreements to return prisoners to their country of origin to serve out sentences? It would be easier for relatives to visit them too, not that I would want to if I was this horrible woman’s unfortunate child.
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Lets not get too hysterical. The real value of thier importation was aprox £900 to £950, whilst heroin is a dangerous drug the ammount was quite small.
The real danger is this constant mis-stating over the value of drugs by the Guernsey courts, police and boarder agency.
Firstly the justice system should be free from deliberate inaccuracy and no body should be sent to prison on distorted facts.
Secondly someone from the UK might really believe the reports in the newspapers. Spending thier fortnightly giro and benifts on a small bag of drugs and a Condor ticket to Guernsey thinking thier going to get twenty times thier money back.
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SS, AK and Martino are mind warped.these two Druggys came to our Island to make some top dollar. They got caught. Lock em up and then deport them never to come back!
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Now we’re paying REAL top dollar to put them up for the next 6/8 years. Far better surely to keep them inside for one year then deport them and ban them from ever coming back….
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Matt,”whilst heroin is a dangerous drug the ammount was quite small”,… enough to kill someones son or daughter though eh! and enough to get a few more youngsters hooked left over.Yes the price is higher in Guernsey than the UK,but that shows that whoever is taking it must be very addicted to this horrid drug to pay such a high price. Heroin brings nothing but misery and those who deal in it should be dealt with very harshly.
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Your last sentence proves your ignorance – heroin actually brings a great deal of pleasure to a lot of users who are able to simply use it recreationally. Don’t be fooled into believing that every heroin user is a washed up junkie – far from it. It is also popular amongst relatively affluent sections of society, prohibition has not and can not work, open your eyes you muppet.
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Very true. Heroin (when good quality) is actually a very clean drug.
The problems arise when users (even if they start off affluent) end up not eating properly, visiting dirty bedsits, using dirty needles, etc.
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Recreational user, “Heroin brings a great deal of pleasure to a lot of users” Ha ha ha ha and what about the misery it brings to their children and other family members ? ,what about the people who addicts have robbed,burgled ,stabbed,killed ,tourtured ,do you think that when the parents get that knock on the door from the police informing them their son or daughter has been found dead are happy and full of the joys of spring,maybe if your mum or grandmother has had a savage beating trying to stop some lowlife junkie robbing their home and stealing what they had worked all their lives for ….need I go on ,get a grip of you life daft lad.
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Sorry Neil are you referring to alcohol maybe, the anti-social implications of which far outweigh those of heroin?
I don’t need to get a grip of anything, I live in the real world, as opposed to that inhabited by numpties who think that you can stop people using a substance by making it illegal.
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Recreational user,
I suggest you get help while you still can!
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I think people should stop talking about deporting criminals back to the mainland. If the mainland refused to take any of ours the Guernsey prison wouldn’t be able to cope.
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I disagree with you there, if we shipped all of the non-locals that are serving sentences here back to their own countries then surely there would be enough room for the local prisoners that are serving sentences away to return.
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You are missing the fundamental point about punishment. If people break our laws (local or non-local) then it is our punishment that is given to them. So we imprison them in our jails and have control over the process. We are not punishing them if the punishment is administered and controlled by someone else.
If we simply convict people and send them away we have no assurance that they will be punished in the way in which our Courts decide.
It is standard practice throughout the world for people to be jailed where they commit the crime. Any decision to move a prisoner is then a secondary question.
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Whilst I am all in favour of people serving long sentences for importing or selling hard drugs, the cost of imprisonment is huge. Why should any country bear the cost of punishing the citizens of another? I would genuinely be interested in the figures relating to prisoners of different nationalities. I guess there are fewer of ours jailed overseas than there are foreigners jailed here. In any case don’t we already pay the UK to accommodate our worst villains sentenced here? Last time I saw the figures the cost per prisoner ran into £Thousands per week. It should be the criminals being punished, not the taxpayer.
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It’s relatively obvious that prohibition hasn’t and never will work. However, as someone who might have agreed with some form of legalisation in my youth, with some experience I can’t see how it would work and as someone once said (probably misquoted) it’s the certainty of sentence that’s more effective than the length.
On a purely financial level, for the life of me I can’t see how the super lengthy sentences for importation are that much of a deterrent – people keep trying and drugs are readily available in the Island – ergo, the deterrent nature of these sentences clearly hasn’t worked.
What Guernsey does do is a great line in control – control of financial services, control of population control through H&S employment laws etc. Drug control and our reputation as a finance centre has a huge bearing on our drug policies. A conservative government, with a largely conservative population simply is never going to relax its controlled drug laws.
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Anyone who supports any relaxation of those laws is really howling at the moon
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Matt, since you seem to be an authority on the subject, how many lethal doses would that be and would either of these two give a damn if it killed some stupid kid?
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A litre of strong spirits is a “lethal dose” in the wrong hands, yet they’re sold by the thousand each and every week. Hypocrisy gone mad!!
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Portugal may have found a better way of dealing with drugs and having a mind open enough to look at how they do it dosen’t mean being “soft” on drugs
But you have to look at the effect drugs have on society and the damages it cause’s. Look at how it’s turned the American dream into a nightmare. A country (and not the only one)where companys regularly test their employees for drugs. Drugs have cause imense damage to that society do you want that to happen in Guernsey?.
Don’t say it wont because I can remember at time when someone importing heroin into the Islands would have caused a mad panic.
How can anyone not have concern for this womans child, but the child may be better off without her in the long run, who can say. But these are the people without which the drug culture cannot spread simply because they are the couriers who spread it.
And for those who say prohibition is not the way I will ask, are you going to let children take drugs?. Because without prohibition they will.
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Because it is illegal, Yes.
The Heroin doesn’t make them do it…prohibition does!
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No point in even passing a comment on the benefits of a different approach towards drug use, because it has and always will fall on deaf ears.
However I really want to pass comment on the the sentences, not necessarily the Heroin sentence, because you’ve come to expect heavy handed Heroin sentences, but what really shocked me was the Diazepam sentence.
Diazepam is a drug that doctors (particularly in Guernsey) prescribe with willfull abandon, ANYONE who wants Diazepam is only a GP visit, and a half convincing “I’m stressed” performance away from a pack of 28.
So for someone who imports 17 tablets to get 2 years for bringing in a drug which anyone can get a greater quantity of in half an hour, particularly when you compare that against the recent child pornography sentences (and the current stories concerning lowering those sentences)is the biggest joke I have seen in a while.
I know what is a greater danger to children, and its not 17 tables of Diazepam, its about time that our courts started to sentence accoringly, because this is frankly madness.
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As a mother I want the courts and authorities to do everything they possibly can to keep drugs out of this island. My children are sensible and hate drugs as much as I do but I also hate the fact that they live in a society where some people promote drugs and illegal substances. What state have we got to where many of our local teenagers can tell you the name of someone they know who either takes or supplies drugs? If you do not believe me ask them!
We can educate our kids against the danger of drugs and alcohol but drugs are far more sinister in my opinion. You do not know what reaction might occur even after one “try” and peer pressure can be a powerful thing. Also drinks can be spiked with drugs so the ‘choice’ of taking it is removed from the victim.
I hope that the little girl in this case is taken from that mother and placed in a home where decency, love and a work ethic might change the direction of her life. That woman does not deserve to be allowed to keep her child – harsh as it might be.
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Ha ha! what a carry on!
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The ‘decriminalise drugs’ argument is irrelevant. They broke the law, the same as if they had come here and kicked a policeman or smashed up a car.
Breaking this particular law carries a certain level of punishment, it’s hardly a secret.
They deserved to be punished this severely.
And I hope the woman never gets to see her daughter again. I’m sure social services in Weymouth will be taking a close interest.
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@ A Mother
a) A bad reaction from an aspirin can kill anybody but it’s sold over the counter and a strong spirit could take the life of a teenager or an adult in a small quantity.
b) How many children have you spoken to who have been peer pressured in to taking heroin lately?
c) Show me one report of a local having their drink spiked with Heroin.
d) What position are you in to judge somebody else’s right to have a child? That woman is a child herself and she has made a mistake, a bad choice and now she is without her daughter and has lost several years of her life.
What do you know about her parenting skills except this one choice she has made in her life? I give her credit for keeping her daughter despite having this level of addiction.
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“I give her credit for keeping her daughter despite having this level of addiction”. This “Scum Mum” decided to risk her freedom and and leave her child motherless for a few years to deliver a killer drug to Guernsey and you give her credit,what a twisted mind you have.
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AK,
I can’t believe the trouble you are going to trying to justify what these two did. They brought heroin, probably one of the hardest drugs into our island. People do die from heroin believe it or not. It is a horrible drug. And don’t go on about aspirin being deadly. If you are going to start spouting stuff like that where do you stop. A wet bathroom floor can be deadly if your not careful. And the cost of keeping these scum bags is an issue for the prison. They don’t need gyms and roast dinners. Give them slop and lock them in their cell. You could keep a prisoner on a couple of quid a day if you wanted to! There is no excuse for drug dealing/trafficking. I would have given them 10 years a piece!
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Totally agree.
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I am trying to justify what they did because Guernsey has more pressing issues at hand and this is a minor blemish when looked at the grand scheme of things.
I believe that the way the Western World deals with drugs is completely wrong and outdated. We need to understand that a percentage of society will Always do drugs regardless of the laws in place.
Look at how much money this is going to cost the state. Almost enough to invest in Wind Farms and spend more on renewable energy whilst becoming a more self-dependable island.
We need to concentrate on making drugs safer and controlling the supply to remove the crime element and dangers of tainted/cut drugs on our citizens. We need to tax them in proportion to the harm they do (just like tobacco and alcohol)
Prohibition is causing more harm than good.
It is something I hold a strong opinion on…
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The Daughter that she loved so much that she “swore on her daughter’s life”
err don’t think so… real good parenting skill that one….
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AK
If you read my post properly you will realise that I am talking about drugs in general not heroin specifically so your questions become irrelevant.
With parenthood comes responsibility and although I may not be in a position to ‘judge’ that woman I still have an opinion. Thankfully there are authorities who are in that position and I hope they make the right decision. You deal hard drugs and you forfeit the right to bring your child up. Trying to compare drugs with an aspirin is clutching at straws. Get a grip!
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Well if the girls been in prison since July, her sentence will have started on the day she was put on remand, as I understand it, and then only serving a third of the sentence for good behaviour etc? Back of a fag packet maths means she’ll be out in summer of 2013 – doesn’t a 6 year sentence mean the served time is actually 2 years?
So it’s not really 6 years nor 8 for the other bloke.
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@ AK, Martino, Recreational User (and any other pro drug poster on here)
These couriers knew what they were doing. They knew it was illegal, and to bring a child with them makes it all the more despicable. The vast majority of islanders will continue to fully back the tough stance on these crimes. These drugs cause addiction and all of the crime to get their next fix follows on. If you wish to live a life surrounded by drug users feel free to avail yourself of the frequent flights or boats to take you elsewhere. From my point of view drugs will NEVER be welcome in the island.
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I am not a pro drug poster. Read what I have written. In my experience people who take non prescription drugs usually are sad or pathetic individuals who are using/abusing these illicit and harmful substances as a substitute for something that is missing in their lives, although I accept this is not always the case.
What I am saying is that it is a complete waste of resources and, at the end of the day, ineffective and impractical to continue to imprison low level drug importers for years on end. This policy just doesn’t work and in this particular case has not even served as enough of a deterrent to prevent one of these defendants doing it again!
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Martino
I see you can be judgemental towards drug users but not towards voyeurs of child porn it seems.
The “sad or pathetic individuals” you refer to here could well be using substances as a substitute for something that is missing in their lives. Perhaps what is missing for them is something that was taken, perhaps what was taken was “simply” a photograph of them when they were small and defenseless. Perhaps what was taken with the photograph was self esteem and dignity.
I abhore drug crime, it perpetuates the suffering of victims and as we see here it perpetuates the stigma of sufferers.
Please try to make the connection Martino.
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Au contraire Spartacus, I also regard voyeurs of child porn as ‘sad or pathetic’ individuals and I am more consistent than you with my position on these topics. In both cases I believe the war is lost. Our prison, as I have said on another thread, is full/complet/sans vacancies. What do you propose to do about it? Build a second one for £50million, take on another 50 ‘screws’ on full taxpayer funded, gold plate pensioned salaries? Come on Spartacus, you’re avoiding answering this question. I’ve made my position clear. Let’s have your answer now…
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Martino
I don’t see how I have been inconsistent on these topics – care to elaborate?
The war is not lost until we give up. You are in the minority who wish to give up and spend the money elsewhere. It is a shortsighted attitude. Do not underestimate the overall cost in monetary and human terms which is caused by allowing these criminals off the hook.
Build another prison if that’s what it takes – how about a specialist psychiatric prison specifically for these offenders? I don’t care how much it costs – what is the point in having schools harbours, airports etc if our children are not safe? Its a fundamental priority.
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It seems you’re not alone in that view Martino.
The Global Commission on Drug Policy had similar thoughts last year. Their report can be read on this website and begins with the rather damning statement “The global war on drugs has failed…”
http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report
When this issue came on on TIG a while ago I said it was time for a grown up debate on the issue. Such a debate requires an open-minded approach from all sides and should be both objective and compassionate. It would also require people to think laterally and not just dogmatically hold to their views, whatever side of the debate they sit on.
I haven’t made up my mind yet but clearly your view that hard-line policies against drugs have failed are no longer just the opinions of “druggies” and “loony liberals.”
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I suppose it’s impossible to tell how many potential drug runners HAVE been put off by the local sentencing policy
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Can’t agree Martino. You cannot quantify how much a deterrent it is until you remove it then find drug use and addiction has increased dramatically. By that time it’s too late as you have dramatically increased the number of addicts with all the health care cost implications.
I do not consider an importation of 34 grams as a small importation for a population the size of Guernsey’s.
Lastly if as you say the deterrent isn’t enough, increase the sentences and make sure it is well publicised at every port serving the island. Do not reduce them.
We will have to accept that we have totally opposing views on this.
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Not totally opposed Donkey Doo because we both detest the scourge of drugs in society. It’s just that we have opposing ideas on how to move the present situation on.
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When will people realise that the actual problem is human nature itself.
Drugs as a whole arent evil, they are a product, like everything else that is available in the world.
It is the human being who chooses whether they want that product or not.
Any product when abused causes massive amounts of harm, to the user and the people that surround them.
Think about it, change drugs for alcohol, chocolate, money, smoking, even facebook, anything you can think of is abusable. It is the abuse of it that causes the harm. Unfortunately it is not in our nature to show restraint, when we think we are onto a good think we try to get as much of it as possible!
Having said all that, there has been recent cases in America aswell relating to medicinal marijuana use. 2 million people across 16 states are now able to get marijuana for medicinal purposes without seeing a dealer. On average each state has found a reduced crime rate by between 5% – 10% simply from this.
Do your own research, dont follow the hyped propaganda that surrounds these subjects. Talk to Frank is a perfect example of this.
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Bob
I couldn’t agree more – addiction itself is the problem. But we humans have evolved to a stage where theoretically we can use our intelligence to override the natural urges. All the things you list from alcohol to facebook should be controlled or at least continually publicised warning of their dangers to long term health. Some are more susceptible than others.
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And these people have a larger sentence than the paedophiles? Its a disgrace.
I’m not saying that this isn’t serious I just find it difficult to understand why these people have double the sentence of Men/women who have scarred a childs life for ever.
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I don’t understand it either. Its sick.
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