Reintegration of excluded pupils could be improved, says Scrutiny
Friday 17th February 2012, 5:00PM GMT.
Scrutiny Committee chairman Deputy Barry Brehaut
DISRUPTIVE students are being repeatedly excluded from school because Education is not adequately addressing the reasons behind their bad behaviour, the Scrutiny Committee has found.
Education figures dating back to 2006 showed that one pupil was excluded eight times in one school year and several were barred seven times in just 12 months.
In the report, which will be presented to the States in March, Scrutiny chairman Deputy Barry Brehaut said the exclusion process had to address the reasons for a pupil’s disruptive behaviour and help them reintegrate into school to be successful.
‘Without successful reintegration, the pupil could return to school facing the same problems that caused them to behave disruptively previously, but with the added pressure and stigma of having had time out of their registered school.
‘If this is not provided for appropriately, then it is likely that the disruptive behaviour will be repeated.’
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Saturday 26 May
- Laid-off staff see jobs re-advertised next day
- The Week - Roots Manuva interview
- Royal celebrations of yesteryear
- The Week - Jubilee Food
- Sport - Angus Mackay takes Gib job
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
Perhaps the parents should be made more accountable for the actions and behaviour of their children, rather than blaming the schools for not being able to manage them.
Report abuse
@hougue I totally agree with you. Parents should be accountable, after all how you raise your child can generally be associated with the Childs behaviour. However I do believe that peer pressure and other factors can impact on a child’s behaviour rather than their upbringing and perhaps we do need a ‘stricter’ system in our schools again. How in this day and age can there be little ‘tyrants’ getting away with things. Maybe society needs to agree on a level of acceptable punishment that would actually back up a teacher’s word – warnings do nothing!! Or more of an incentive for good behaviour for those that ‘re-offend’
Report abuse
EXACTLY.
Report abuse
Hougue – some children who are excluded are just plain naughty and, yes, their parents are partly to blame. But many of these children who are excluded have emotional and behavioural problems which have little or nothing to do with their upbringing – many have undiagnosed conditions such as ASD and learning difficulties. Please don’t lump them all together and blame the parents – these parents have incredibly stressful times trying to manage their child’s behaviour and to ensure they get the education they need. They need support, not blame.
Report abuse
One of the reasons given for poor performance in the classroom was disruptive pupils.
If a pupil is disruptive they should be removed from the class. There is an under used link centre for these children.
This may upset the do-gooders, who will say that they have a right to an education. So do the rest of the class.
Give teachers more power to discipline unruly children.
Report abuse
Mulkerrin said “The Link Centre’s annual running costs are around £1.3 million. Staff in the High Schools would rather this was spent on additional support and assistant teachers across the three schools. I would agree with them.” I agree with Mulkerrin. Nevertheless the new education board seem to be ignoring this advice.
The whole concept of the Link centre appears to be a failing experimental solution. As Mulkerrin suggests the schools need to be integral to the process of addressing disruptive behaviour and special needs.
Social and emotional problems stemming from background need to be identified and tackled head on. Social services and education need to collaborate effectively. More support perhaps needs to be given to families with problems to ensure they are able to fulfill their duty to support their children’s education.
Culture within schools needs to be addressed too – there is a big leap from primary to secondary and bad language, homophobia, smoking, seem to be rife and unchecked from year 7. Swearing in my opinion is the starting point and should not be acceptable let alone included in videos shown in the school lessons. Smarter uniforms are also part of this because in my opinion and experience a more formal attire promotes a more business like attitude and self esteem amongst those who are lacking.
There has been much debate about these minor details of school culture, particularly uniforms however in my opinion these details are the foundation blocks of raising esteem, self respect, respect for others and ultimately respect for the value of education and learning.
Report abuse
If the centre is going to be closed then the monies saved should be put into specialist teacher training to deal with disruptive personality types. These students need a completely different teaching style. They are not the sit down be quiet listen and take notes type. These students want to be active, they need a noisy classroom where their behaviour is actually warranted and conductive to learning- can this be done in a classroom with “sit down and listen” types? I doubt it – even with assistant teachers and an abundance of support. There is not a one size fits all solution which is I guess is why the Link Centre was founded. I have no idea about how this centre is run and why it costs so much and i agree the running costs do seem excessive from that viewpoint. But putting them back into an environment with a teaching style from which they rebel is just asking for failure. I highly doubt the new education board is ignoring Mulkerrins advice, in fact this area is one of most importance and deserves to be taken very seriously. Its not a black and white issue and I would rather they take their time with this one and get it right.
Report abuse
Hi Rachel
Are we mixing apples with pears? “Disruptive personality types” as you put it suggest a permanent disorder which would perhaps entail a medical diagnosis warranting attendance of a special needs schools.
There is an element of disruption in any school and it is these instances that are deemed temporary or fixable. If a healthy child is excluded from school there is surely always an underlying reason and I suppose it is the challenge of the link centre to identify that reason and try to fix it.
Perhaps the thing is that such problems cannot always be identified and solved during the short period that a child is excluded and on return to school the situation is actually worse as indicated in this article. Maybe they should be excluded for longer or for a more flexible timeframe and only be allowed back to school if there is confidence the problem has been addressed. A child cannot be permanently excluded though and I doubt the link has ability to deliver the education syllabus as required by law .
I would still agree with your basic theory that these children require special attention however I believe this attention has more chance of being successful if it is delivered within the relative normality of the school environment and this is the crux of the debate.
My reason for thinking the education board have not taken Mulkerrin’s advice on this is because I noticed that since 9th February they have been advertising for a head of service for the link centre indicating they have decided to stick with the facility.
Report abuse
Kids are disruptive for many reasons and it doesn’t mean they require a “medical diagnosis” and belong in a “special needs school”. People have different personality types and we all learn in different ways, however, it seems to be that people who think on their feet, may be a little more verbal than average and learn best via highly active teaching methods do not succeed in the school environment – especially those who may may feel threatened by or not appreciate being dominated by authority figures for 6 hours every day. It has nothing to do with not being academic or intelligent they just learn differently to those who are happy to sit, listen and watch types. These kids can be easily switched on with a simple change in teaching style -this is well documented. Even if these kids leave school many are successful as they thrive in a real world environment where some of the academic, sit down and watch types fail. Unfortunately one teacher in one classroom cannot cater to all learning types no matter how many “helpers” the teacher has. You can talk all you want about “support” and “working collaboratively” with social services and changing the culture etc but what does this really mean in real terms other than just being the fanciful buzz words used by mindless management in place of real change. In my opinion, difference should not be defined as a “problem” in itself, difference should be embraced, encouraged, those who want to speak out should be given an environment where they can do that, those who need real world examples rather than textbook examples should be given that also – this is what a real culture change looks like and change is scary. It requires education and specialist teacher training rather than sending kids of for a diagnosis with possible medication, little sit down sessions with a counselor with a view to going straight back into the unsuitable learning environment that they were in prior. As i said before, I don’t know anything about the Link centre or how it is run. I’m supportive of all that you have stated in your post above and just adding my own interpretation of how to deal with those kids which may be seen as “disruptive students”. This is of course separate to the issue of discipline when behaviour moves beyond that of mildly disruptive.
Report abuse
Rachel
I was nodding while reading your post! How can this challenge be met though? Finland seem to have the right inclusive culture which embraces difference.
The attached article is quite long but I found it interesting.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz1mnsA8D6K
They say “We try to catch the weak students. It’s deep in our thinking”.
Report abuse
Thanks for the link and its an excellent article. It seems that the root of the Finnish success lay in making a masters degree compulsory for teachers. When they did this then the culture change enabled that all embracing attitude to develop and also alternative teaching methods to flourish. It would be a step in the right direction if we could encourage extra study by teachers over here. Perhaps the states should offer to fund all extra education embarked upon by teachers – maybe make it a prerequisite of any head position? (that they must have or be willing to complete a masters) and perhaps even grant 15 year licenses to those who do?
Report abuse
Hiya Spartacus – I completely agree with your post here. Firstly, the amount of money spent on Link could instead be used to supply many part time teaching assistants, maybe shadowing one to one the unruly/unable to concentrate for more than 5 minutes children – starting in reception and year 1 so hopefully as these kids move up the school they will have a better idea how to manage and conduct themselves in class which could reduce problems in secondary schools. I also dont necessarily think these part time TA’s need to be experienced in this field, just commonsense mothers who would love to help and maybe get a bit of pocket money for doing so. In the secondary schools with the older children more qualified teachers so there are smaller learning groups in the core subjects and help to minimise disruptive groups.
Secondly, the issue of uniform is definitely a starting block to instill a sense of belonging and respect and just the idea of being part of a team. I think you will find that most children at the secondaries will welcome the chance to all look smarter and feel like they are part of a regimented and respected school. You are right in saying that this sort of small change can easily be instigated and is a foundation to esteem and self respect. As well as lengthening the school day I believe these are three fairly easy to implement changes, 1)more TA’s 2) uniform and 3)a longer working day, which I personally would love to see happen ASAP and believe they are issues which COULD be tackled expediently. Unfortunately I have my doubts that we will see any tangible changes like this in the near future, if at all.
Report abuse
Buttercup I am not blaming the parents. I said that schools shouldn’t be blamed. Totally agree with Frankie and Local Lass. As we all know it only takes one child to disrupt a class and they have to be dealt with to safeguard the education of the rest of the class. At the end of the day a child’s education should be free of unnecessary interruptions caused by unruly children and teachers should be free to teach rather than spending a disproportionate amount of time dealing with problems.
Report abuse
Hougue
No-one is disputing that disruptive children need to be dealt with the question is – how?.
You seem to be suggesting the remedial work should take place outside of school which is what currently happens however this article is informing us of the problem with this approach when it comes to reintegrating those children who have been excluded.
What do you think should be done to improve the reintegration process? For example what can be done to hold the parents accountable as you suggest in your first post?
Report abuse
Spartacus.
The link centre is a good idea, this gets the disruptive child out of the classroom so others can progress.
You could be right, maybe they are trying to reintergrate them too fast. What is needed are some behavioural therapists and specialist teachers who can highlight and repair disruptive pupil’s issues.
Perhaps if they were to spend a couple of terms alongside others in a smaller class they might learn to interact better with other people.
If there is a class of disruptive pupils at the link centre mixing with each other and getting the proper support they need, they would probably not feel so ‘ different ‘ as they would in normal schools.
This would probably make them feel better and more willing to learn, if they’re one person in a class at a normal school, all the other children will stare and make fun of them when they act up. This probably makes the situation ten times worse.
As a taxpayer I would be happy to fund this if it helps identify and assists these children to obtain good grades.
Would it be a bad idea if when the children are considered for reintegration, they put a couple of them into the same classroom so they can support each other and not feel so different?
Report abuse
I guess the problem with a longer timeframe of exclusion is how to ensure the kids keep up with the curriculum while they are not attending school. It seems unlikely that all will be the same age group or even at the same key stage. I see your rationale though in that they could be in a mixed class and just taught how to pay attention and learn which would be facilitated by the supportive environment of the link.
Same problem for putting them in the same class on return to school – it would only be possible if the exclusion timeframe happens to coincide for 2 students of the same age group.
Report abuse
Spartacus.
Keeping up with the curriculum would be a problem, or would it?
If they are disruptive they probably aren’t keeping up anyway and have fallen behind.
If we put specialist teachers in we may see a big improvement in their school work.
If the COFE can improve it’s student’s english and math skills in a relatively short space of time, can the same happen at the link centre?
Okay the differences in age may be a problem but if basic English and math skills are taught, I think we would see a big improvement.
The recent exam results may have been caused by lack of these fundamental skills, I don’t know. I bet it hasn’t helped.
If this works it would be money well spent.
Report abuse
Frankie
Good point about the disruptive ones already being behind on the curriculum. The challenge is that at some stage, somehow these children need to catch up. The point as highlighted in this article seems to indicate there is more pressure if time has been taken out of school which suggests exclusion is an additional obstacle rather than a solution.
The difference with COFE is that students who go there do so by choice and are therefore ready and willing to learn. Maybe you have the right idea though if Maths and English is the only focus for the disruptive ones then it will allow them to catch up quicker with all subjects.
I have a hypothesis that some children who are disruptive are simply bored and not being challenged adequately.
Report abuse
Totally agree.
Report abuse
Spartacus
I wonder how many parents are even aware that their child is guilty of disruption at school. I would think that re-integration must be a very time consuming process with child, teacher and parents working to achieve targets as the behaviour hopefully improves. All must play an equal part but worth it in the end.
Report abuse
Hougue
You raise a very good point about parental awareness. In practice I wonder whether the teachers ever have time to follow up on such matters at the low level disruption stage. A stitch in time might be a better approach.
Report abuse
Spartacus I am sure you are right. A zero tolerance approach towards low level disruption would nip it in the bud. The exception, if allowed to flourish, becomes the rule. If children realise they will not be getting away with anything, they will know exactly where they stand.
Report abuse
With all the data harvesting that goes on in schools these days, it must be possible to work out the ages where the problem is worst and the likely cause of the problem.
And if it’s happening more frequently these days it can only be either lax parenting or because they know they can get away with it. We can’t go back to Victorian parenting (sadly?) but we can, as said above, return to zero-tolerance. There’s a real lack of appropriate punishment/reward across the board in life generally these days.
Throwing expensive resources at a few bad eggs whilst the hardworking kids soldier on with less, is that working? Super Nanny wouldn’t approve!
I agree with Rachel above that some kids don’t fit the classroom model. Some kids are not academic and need to be DOING and the old system of having an older mentor (or group of) who they respected seemed to work. Maybe if these kids knew they had to reach a set level of maths and reading before they could leave school as an apprentice…? Why was that ever scrapped?
Report abuse
Mrs Meat
I agree with your comment about data and one would hope there is a bod somewhere methodically analysing the problem.
However, since your post suggests that the problem is worse than it ever used to be, I would like to also hope that someone is analysing evidence of this too as I’m not too sure whether things are better now than say 20 years ago. Does anyone actually know?
I’m not sure I would be happy if my child was being disruptive for some reason and they were not given resources because of the label of “bad egg” – what if it was your child? Of course I’m sure your and my children are not in this category eh! Lucky us – lets not judge others.
I completely agree with your inspired idea of dangling a carrot to get some of the less motivated students to pass their exams.
Report abuse
Mrs Meat How about the French system of redoublement where children have to stay in a class until they reach the required grades needed to move on to the next class?
Report abuse
All your writers seem to be: Know-alls, sob sisters, do-gooders, and human rights nutters. These are the same types of people that brought about this situation. Step back in time to where none of these people had yet been heard of and things wil change overnight.
Parents will require obedience and respect from their children and a good hiding will ensure that they get it, and teachers will use the cane to enforce order and studiousness in their classrooms. Children committing suicide and/or leaving school without being able to read and write will be cut back to zero. And…..and crime will be reduced at the source!
It worked for me and everybody else in my day and i am not ashamed to be called a philistine or a member of the bash ém an hang ém brigade – proud of it, in fact!
Report abuse
Proud of advocating child abuse – nice. Insulting, judgemental. I don’t think the harsh measures did work for you Brian and many others of your generation – evidently.
Report abuse
Brian for CM
Report abuse
Ray I hope this is your sarcastic wit.
A good hiding is the quickest way to lose respect and break down child parent trust. Don’t take my word for it watch Super nanny. Achieving obedience is a matter of leading by example, being consistent and patient and above all else maintaining self control. Much more grown up and civilised than terrorising someone who is smaller than you through physical force just because you can. That approach teaches the child that undesirable behaviour can be justified.
Report abuse
Spartacus
Whilst Brian’s spare the rod and spoil the child type terminology is not quite up to modern day etiquette in terms of political correctness I find myself firmly in his camp when he claims that much of today’s problems with youth ill discipline stem from the days when the ‘be nice to everybody and they’ll be nice to you’ brigade crept into our society
That approach teaches some children that no matter how far you push the boundaries there is no real penalty at the end of the day
That is of course until they have to venture out into the real world and find out to their cost that their are indeed some pretty serious sanctions against bad behaviour
Report abuse
Yep, agree totally.
Have never had to smack my children, they know when I am angry and it upsets them more than any punishment.
Remember respect is a two way street, smacking just builds resentment. My children know they can talk about anything with me and they do.
Never blown my top yet! I would prefer that they come to me with problems rather than suffer in silence.
Report abuse
Ray
I absolutely agree that crossing of boundaries should have meaningful consequences the problem is that sometimes adults just can’t be bothered (or don’t have the energy) due to the enormous consistent effort required to do this in a calm and measured way. This applies to school and in the home.
Children actually like having boundaries it makes them feel more secure and when they are consistently enforced properly by an adult it instills respect and therefore compliance. Hitting undermines this process which is why childcare experts universally condemn it. Ignoring bad behaviour is neglect.
Btw of course we should all be nice!
Report abuse
Spot on Ray. Nip it in the bud before it has a chance to flourish. I’m sure this type of child knows exactly what they are doing to ‘wind others up’. Unfortunately they claim to have rights but with these rights come responsibilities which they are not prepared to accept. Many children and young people don’t seem to have any respect for any form of authority. Where does this idea come from?
Report abuse
I feel sorry for the teachers, police and nurses. All at the pointy end of the spear of society and expected to fix the shaft.
And for 20 years of Educationalists getting involved in parenting what has actually happened? Just look at the comparative stats for the UK vs Europe.
Teenage pregnancies, drinking, happiness and well being – the UK is on or at the bottom of every benchmark.
Education should not, in my view, be expected to sort out every difficulty, perceived or otherwise (made up disorder or condition) for pupil. There job is to teach – and teach those that want to be taught.
Report abuse
The Finnish model, with the requirement for taechers to obtain a Masters Degree definitely appears to go some way to ensure teachers have some skills to address underlying problems.
It is not unusual for some teachers to have 3rd class degrees, which must take some doing (or not doing). Three years at Uni and you come away with a third? I suppose teaching is all that is left!
The most recent disorder I have heard of is ‘selective mutism’ where a child decides not to talk to a particular person in the family or a figure of authority they have regular contact with.
You will not be surprised to hear the person a child selectively decides not to talk to is invaraibly the same person who sets defined boundaries for them to follow.
Anyway we are all funding various ‘professionals’ who are on a nice liitle earner, funded by the Tax payer, to research this manufactured problem.
Finally we must not forget that other infamous self perpetuating industry ADHD, or commonly known as Absence of Discipline at Home Disorder. Don’t forget, we’re paying for it!
Report abuse
Nice one Town Dweller about ADHD and so true in lots of cases. A bit like dyslexia being used as a smoke screen by some for CBB – can’t be bothered.
Report abuse
I see we have some self appointed psychiatric experts posting here. If you want to comment at least do the training please people rather than spouting rubbish and belittling a highly respected profession. I hear its “a nice little earner” [sic] so why not go for it.
Report abuse
Spartacus. The Ticket Inspector on the tax-payer funded gravy train has already chucked off one passenger with their noses stuck firmly in the trough.
Worried you maybe following Carol? I suggest you manufacture another scare story your highly paid friends in the States will have to ‘strategically (sic) deal with After all, the infamous Tax Payer funded Gravy Train must stay on the the tracks at all costs!!
Report abuse
Town Dweller
there are no trains in Guernsey however the gravy “plane” is upgrading its landing strip and the gravy “drain” is upgrading cess-pits of private properties. As for non christian rate payers subsidising vicars’ living expenses well that’s just a river of gravy. Holy moly.
These tax payer funded abominations are all valid objections although I hold no grudge against frequent fliers, christians or cesspit owners.
My point is therefore that your gripe about funding for health professionals seems to be based on a prejudice in relation to childhood mental health issues and those who treat the sufferers, in my opinion.
I don’t even know any states members personally let alone have friends amongst them so you seem to be lashing out purely because you don’t like the truth in what I have said.
Report abuse
I fully agree that DISRUPTIVE students are being repeatedly excluded from school because Education is not adequately addressing the reasons behind their bad behaviour, the Scrutiny Committee has found evidence that this area needs to be addressed. Please note not all disruptive students are naughty there are many reasons for their behaviour and sometimes this is made worse by teachers inexperience or lack of training to identifiy these areas and address them in the correct way. It would be nice to see in teh future that all pupils are treated fairly in receiving the best education for each childs needs. Kids suffering with ADHD , AUTISM, TOURETTES, ASPERGERS etc may come accross as naughty because they look normal and people can not see the mental disability that they suffer. Therefore do not judge these kids and parents with ignorance that they need disclipine, many have other chidlren which behave well and it is not the parents ignoring their behaviour but trying to manage it the best they can.We are very short of behavioural specialists and mental health professionals over here to help with these issues, also the teachers and Schools are also not trained in this area of disruptive behaviour and this needs to be address. More training and Specialist are needed to address and sort this area out.
Report abuse
And I suppose none of these conditions existed 30 years ago!?
Disruptive children were in my class too in the ’70s but the extent of their disruptiveness was severely shortened by a lump of chalk, black board rubber or last resort the cane. It’s not child abuse, it discipline.
There was a post above about children losing respect for the parents if they smacked their kids. Laughable! I was smacked by my Father, I still have the utmost respect for him. I smacked my 3 children, all 3 still have the utmost respect for me. My son even backed a facebook ‘pro-smacking’ campaign recently because he could see that it stopped him going off the rails which he readily agrees he would have done (he’s now 25).
The whole current situation has been caused by the ‘pink and fluffy brigade’.
Bring back corporal punishment.
Report abuse
Donkey Doo
What a shame you didn’t have the skills to raise your children properly without losing control and resorting to abuse. I’m also sad to hear Stockholm syndrome runs in your family.
Report abuse
Spartacus.
Call me an ambulance mate, you broke a rib with that one.
I’m going to be giggling about that one all night now.
Report abuse
I can’t think of anything less funny.
Report abuse
Parent of a disruptive child.
A friend of mine had a child with ADHD, and you are right in that there is little support for this, even when it’s finally diagnosed properly.
I know he was at his wits end until a doctor diagnosed the condition and medication has helped greatly. The child is now integrating a lot better and has not been excluded for a while.
There needs to be more training for teachers or even the link centre to be able to spot this and help the child get back into the classroom.
Is your child getting the right support?
Believe me it does get better. I agree with this post totally.
Good luck!
Report abuse
Is that the same Mr Mulkerrin who didn’t actually spend any time investigating how the Link Centre operated other than a quick walk around ? How much was he paid ? Nice work if you can get it ! I think the general approval of Mulkerrin’s report was more of a two fingered gesture at the state of the education dept at the time rather than an endorsement of the content.
Report abuse