Alderney power scheme could become one of world’s biggest
Saturday 18th February 2012, 3:00PM GMT.
Flamanville power station, pictured, is 37km from Alderney while Fawley is 135km away.
ALDERNEY Renewable Energy has signed two agreements with French infrastructure giants to develop what could be ‘one of the largest’ tidal energy schemes worldwide.
They include working on a £1bn connection running from Flamanville via Alderney to Fawley in the UK.
The deals, signed at the Anglo-French summit attended by David Cameron and Nicholas Sarkozy, were firmly endorsed by both countries’ energy ministers.
The move came just days after Guernsey, Jersey and Sark pledged to combine their efforts on local renewable energy, with Alderney opting to go it alone.
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This appears to be wrong. Alderney has taken everything Guernsey has offered and now it looks likely big money is on the horizon it chooses to snub us.
I hope the States look into this because it doesn’t seem like fair treatment. Is Alderney now independent and can behave in such a way?
Are the politicians there qualified to obtain the best value for a deal of this nature?
What will happen to the money made from the deal?
Who owns what now?
There are many questions that need answering.
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I think you’ll find that Alderney is the ones who have invested in the research into tidal energy technollogy, so why should we share it with Guernsey who constantlly take the P*** out of Alderney residents by saying even though you were born in guernsey you pay your tax’s to guernsey and your part of the baliwick of guernsey you have NO RIGHTS to live in guernsey. I say fair play to TPTB for getting this far with the Tidal energy scheme and I hope it all comes to fuition sooner rather than later
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This is Alderney’s seabed and the work and research has been conducted by a local group, watched over by the Alderney Comission for Renewable Energy. This scheme has been in the pipelines now for many years, as usual Guernsey and the remaining islands jump on the back when there is publicity to be had.
Alderney contributes its equal share to the monetary pot of the baliwick, you have your public projects and we have ours. You’ll find that ARE own the rights to tap this power and not the people of Alderney.
The elected officials on the island i’m sure are capable of making decisions in the same way yours are.
This project will bring to the general publics attention the advances in tidal technology and bring investments which i’m sure you’ll all benefit.
So please take you petty ill informed opinions and keep them to yourself.
The biggest regret i have is that my passport says born in guernsey.
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Not sure Alderney has “taken everything Guernsey has offered” as you put it – thats a little misleading.
This was Alderney’s venture and not Guernsey nor Jersey wanted anything to do with it until it seemed that ARE were about pull it off. Its unfair to try and claim Guernsey are entitled to any part of this.
Alderney has had to sort its own electricity supply out up to now, and has had no help from Guernsey in that department so why would Guernsey become involved now that they can get some cash out of it?
Alderney needs this, and good on them. the electricity prices in Alderney are astronomical and its about time they had some help. Congratulations to them for having the ingenuity to come up with somthing like this.
I do echo others’ concerns regarding who actually benefits from this and hopefully we’ll get a clear picture of how this will benefit locals soon.
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Great but given Alderney is part of the baliwick of Guernsey how could Alderney opt to go it alone?
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Apparently Bailwick just means “within the Bailiff’s reach”. So I guess Alderney can act alone whenever it wants. It owns its own seabed.
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On the posts above : stop `Swingeing`!
Good luck to the Ridunians.
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Agreed,the scheme is excellent news but how come Alderney is independent all of a sudden? Obviously Guernsey has subsidised the island for years, such as through the online gambling licences which we could easily have grabbed for ourselves but instead ‘balance the books’ for Alderney. Any windfalls should benefit the bailiwick as a whole. What on earth is going on?
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That is quite an interesting question.
I don’t doubt over the last years through financial hardship that Alderney has faced they may have received subsidization but no-one has kept any figures on the matter. Some would even dispute any has occurred at all but their definitely is an attitude that if you ask about this matter you shouldn’t bite the hand that may feed you. (Which does not help the situation – the agreement was set up with a fraternal tone to help Alderney become self sufficient including through the hard times, not to make them feel like they are ungrateful and lucky to be get what they are getting and not to ask questions…if they are getting anything at all).
The reason why Guernsey provides services for Alderney was due to the aftermath of the war. Guernsey then provided services to Alderney to help them get going again. This may be out of kindness and familiarity but I have read that Guernsey received some money after the war from the UK to help restore it and is was felt Guernsey should in turn help Alderney. I think it was both.
This is a passage from a book by Richard Hocart: “Under the agreement between the States of the two islands Guernsey undertook to meet any deficit which might arise if the cost of the transferred services exceeded the income from Alderney. It was expected that there would be a deficit for some years, but in fact Alderney ‘broke even’ from the start and was not a burden of the tax payers of Guernsey.”
From my understanding Alderney pays income tax to Guernsey and this covers the cost of the services. Although no-one knows what comes in or goes out for some while now it is difficult to assess if Alderney is paying a fair price for the services received. (Or were ever due a refund). My understanding however may be incorrect. (In terms of your point though the money generated in Alderney from the online gambling does go in the shared purse and remains in the Bailiwick – it does not matter where it is generated).
All that in mind I imagine the agreement carried on in part to the fraternal relationship between the islands. I don’t think there is too much point bickering about finer details as it helps nothing but they help provide context.
The term bailiwick is taken by those the States of Guernsey as one of a historical term of a former administrative area. This means Alderney is a separate jurisdiction which can do what it wants and Guernsey owes it nothing and vice versa beyond the cross administration agreement.
I think however we as islanders should be able to define it ourselves. The only other bailiwick I know of in the world is the one of Jersey and its smaller islands which are more like big rocks are considered very close. No-one would say they were independent or unrelated. It is in our hands – who is to tell us what Bailiwick means?
Guernsey owns Herm and all it’s laws were edited and copied over to there. Guernsey issues Bailiwick laws that cover both Sark and Alderney. The cross administration agreement means there is a relationship too. Families are spread over the islands. You can see from comments on this thread that public opinion that people in Guernsey believe there is a connection and if you ask the people of Alderney they would say the same on the whole. As a community we are the ones that can define what Bailiwick means to us. I think it is time we re-assessed it and asked who defined it in the first place.
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Nicely put
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Thank you
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if alderney is so closely linked to guernsey as most of you seem to to think.how come if you are born in alderney different recedency rules apply to you if you go to guernsey but not vice a versa.
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This was answered in detail by Deputy Jones recently on a different press article.
Simply put because Alderney has no rules on who can live there it would be an effective backdoor for anyone to then live in Guernsey.
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Guern Abroard
Did you know your housing laws indirectly discriminate against Alderney Students?
They come over to the island for education purposes but none of their time on this island is recognized. For example if you pass your 11 plus an Alderney student could spend most of the year in Guernsey though ages 10 – 18 and none of this time is recognized towards residency.
For any other licence type even when the individual is expected to leave, it they are granted an extension their time does count towards qualification.
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Best of luck to you in the northern Channel Island with this project. Alderney has suffered ever since the end of WW2 and this is a great opportunity.
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I wonder if they will be using super conducting cable? Apparently its a fraction of the size of a normal power cable.
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I understand why people from outside of Alderney should not be allowed a back door entry to Guernsey, but iwas actually referring to persons born in Alderney to Alderney born parents.But thats beside the point,could the states of Guernsey be trusted to manage this project considering their efforts on other projects.Taking over the breakwater from UK was one big mistake and when they decided to overide Alderney on other inferstucture projects it has allways alot more.Any profits by way of tax will surely benefit everyone ,plus any service providers will also help the employment issues which are becoming apparent in Alderney at present.
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Really?
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1 billion eh?
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If you say so!
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Alderney’s tidal power development has always been enterprise-lead and while overseen by The States it has not been supported or directed by either Guernsey or Alderney governments.
The people of Alderney are not “propped up” by Guernsey, we pay Bailiwick taxes on things that have no benefit for us but accept that this is part of the give and take required by the 1948 agreement.
Alderney’s tidal projects have always been apart from Guernsey and Sark, even though the Bailiwick does stand to benefit hugely from the possibilities.
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Good for Alderney I say, maybe it will sort its waste issue out as well, and then sell the solution to Guernsey!
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Aren’t our tides pretty much the same? If marine power is viable for Alderney why on earth is Guernsey States wasting our money studying wind power? Especially as it is already proven to be the least effective and most visually polluting form of alternative energy.
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Thank you Mariner for pointing this out. Perhaps Guernsey will stop sniping at this project now. As you have said, we need this project and why should Guernsey try to get in on the act. We pay tax to Guernsey and rates as if we were in High Street Guernsey.
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Alderney is quite at liberty to pursue its own tidal energy schemes, it is self governing, has its own parliament and is free to support whatever its people through the democratic process desire.
The fact that Guernsey and Alderney have some shared administration is neither here nor there. I wish Alderney luck in this venture and any income it can derive from it to help support its economy.
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Dave Jones
My two earlier posts below are answered then.
Thanks for that.
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The Flamanville photo reminds me very much of the incinerator,sorry heat treatment unit,that Deputy A Spruce of the Vale mini district is still desperate to introduce at Bulwer Avenue
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Has Paul Arditti acquired any interests in this?
If so, what are they?
Hopefully, Dave Jones will be good enough to clarify the legality of Alderney choosing to be shy with us.
In time, this prospect could well turn out to be a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/01/31/alderney-%E2%80%98must-have-housing-controls-before-better-rights%E2%80%99/
Comment 23 is said by Dave Jones. I believe this is what you are after.
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Lol. And right above… missed that
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I’m well aware of ARE but not who they actually are or claim to represent. I’m curious why they have been given so much power and whether the control they have managed to obtain this far is legal and above board?
It all seems a bit of a strange arrangement to me.
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Local
As I have said before Alderney is free to make its own decisions and to negotiate with any partner they please.
I don’t think they have been “shy with us” their States and their officials are doing what is in the best interests of Alderney and they most certainly haven’t kept their wish to have a tidal power scheme a secret.
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Go Alderney, finally we have our own adventure without the help from Guernsey people! and all you lot in the bigger island, get your own tidal power, this is ours and we have worked hard for it. dont seem fair you get to gain from something now!
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Not sure just which individuals on Alderney are going to personally profit from all of this.
Hopefully Alderney’s residents are going to see some benefit,hopefully lower electricity prices, as the unit cost is horrendous at present-some OAPs have allegedly been using candles as they cannot afford to use the electricty-if true it is a disgrace.
Maybe transparency is required regarding who has what shares in this project,hopefully not just a few individuals getting extremely rich on the back of Alderney’s natural resources.
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Quite frankly, well done Alderney!
So which clueless muppets didnt pursue this proposal in our States then?
Our proposal seems to be a wind farm off the west coast…..wy bother – tide is more reliable and quieter to us as humans!
Wy dont we jump on the same bandwagon and embrace this, so that we too can boost our economy?
Oh yeah i forgot about the poor Bass…..i guess they dont live around Alderney then – ha ha ha ha ha!
Yes everyone complains when they think they are missing out on £££££££ – about time we as an island actually grew up and tried to apply a level head to this situation!
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http://www.are.gb.com/
I think maybe you should all just look at the above site, and then you will have all the information you need. Personally I think it is great as it means that electricity prices will fall dramatically on Alderney. As for Incomer remarks about a few individuals getting rich, what do you bloody expect it’s a private company which is trying to generate and then SELL electricity cheaply and in the most green way posible of course they are gonna make money, maybe people should stop being jealous of other people and actually try and come up with an idea themselves instead of trying to bring other projects down just cause they didn’t think of it first
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If any Alderney OAP’s are viewing this on their laptops by candlelight, might I suggest they invest in some low wattage bulbs instead? As expensive as electricity may be, there is no way you can get light more cheaply by burning candles. One 9w bulb would give a lot more light than a candle and costs 1p to run for about 4 hours. Less chance of burning the place down too.
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In response to Pete-no I am not jealous of other people trying to get rich off the back of this project-all I hope is that Alderney as a WHOLE sees some benefit as the Island is suffering at the moment,after all, it’s Alderney’s resources that they will be using to make their personal profit,or do you begrudge me having that opinion?
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No I do not begrudge you having that or any opinion as people are entiteled to there own opinions I just think it’s niave to think that people won’t get rich off of this and like I said as long as the electicity prices come down for Alderney, which they will as the current electricity station is run off oil or diesel which is stupid prices at the moment then I’m all for it.
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Incomer, do you not bother reading the Alderney Press or Alderney Journal every week, we have been told time and time again that the electricity prices will significantly drop. And as for the individuals who do get rich from this…eventually, so the should, they work really really hard for this! fair enough yes they will benefit greatly, but they are doing this for the island as whole and they invested their own money and time into this in the first place.
There is no secret as to who they main shareholders are in this project! The whole island knows!… obviously other then yourself. If your not properly intergrated into island life and in the know about simple things like this project then you really are not in the position to comment on the state of the island either. I think its great news!! Guernsey can sort their own project out, they have known about this was going to happen for years….its taken a long time to get to this stage! Maybe they should have started acting then! no point complaining about it now.
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alderney is part of “the baliwick” as and when guernsey chooses.
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Ok,please enlighten me as to who is going to benefit from this personally as LocalAlderneyGirl seems to know-ARE’s CEO is an entrepreneur,fair enough,such people obviously work for the greater good of the Island as LocalAlderneyGirl states-as long as Alderney’s residents benefit,fine.I don’t appreciate the remark that I should not comment-I have as much right as anyone else to my opinion-or is it because I’m not LOCAL??
As to the state of the Island,anyone with half a brain can see how the Island is suffering at the moment.
By the way,I couldn’t imagine Mr Clark describing this project as a”simple thing” I am really impressed with LocalAlderneyGirl’s understanding of all the details
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If you go to A.R.E website http://www.are.gb.com/
then you will be able to see who the share holders are and who will benefit from this project personally.
This type of project can only ever be done in the private sector as the amount of time and money required to invest in research etc to get this up and running would be to much for Alderney States to invest, because States members are voted in by the public and change every few years or so the running of such a project would be to inconsistent and they would never get backers for the project – hence why a private company has been granted a LICENSE to exploit tidal energy within Alderney waters.
Now I don’t know the exact details but I would assume that they have to pay Alderney for this License (I don’t know how much and if it is one lump sum or a yearly amount) and any profits made from the sale of electricity may have a percentage paid to Alderney (Again I don’t know how much if any – but they would have to pay tax which goes to Guernsey any way so both Islands will benefit) And once again Electricity prices will fall dramatically which has been widely publicised in both the Alderney press and the Alderney Journal with regards to the project at Fort Albert, so if the individuals who have invested their own money and time into this get a bit richer than they already are then who cares really if the cost of electricity will be coming down (which means everybody benefits).
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Pete,
I’ve had a look at the site link that you included but cannot see any mention of who the shareholders are.
Any helpful directions appreciated.
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This link http://www.are.gb.com/media-centre/news/tag/Shareholdings
shows that Open Hydro have shares and this link
http://www.are.gb.com/company/meet-the-team/
shows who runs the company.
I assume that they all hold shares in the company but could be wrong, also I’m sure if you were to contact them through the contact us link on there website that they would be able to tell you who ALL the shareholders are.
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It seems I’m not alone in my questioning as other people on here are asking the same as me,so please don’t direct the disparaging comments solely in my direction.Thank you.
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Its not the fact that you are not ‘Local’ that makes her think you shouldnt comment! Im sure she agree’s with all incomers having their opinion, it is the fact that you obviously dont even read any of the Island Press or Journal and have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to this project, which is not what she intended to call Simple! She was pointing out the fact that it has been in the press so often on the island and it has been made clear it is for the benefit of this island and that eventually yes the electricity prices will drop! If you beleive that you are in the position to comment, perhaps you should pay more attention to the details provided, before airing such questions. In anycase there is no need to argue about this. Its good news for Alderney and that is all that matters.
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Incomer. I never mention anything about the fact you are not Local, whether you are or not doesnt matter to me. My knowledge on this comes from all the publication on this project and the website….it isnt hard to click a few buttons and turn a few pages! Im sure most of Alderney know the same details!
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I think it’s great news!!
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Well good luck to Alderney! Can they come over and run Guernsey? Then maybe all the tax I have paid in 30 years would not have been wasted by fools!
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I’m still none the wiser by much of any of this. Once up and running this could make a few exceptionally wealthy individuals.
I just feel this needs to be looked into by, hate to even say it, possibly OUR or our law officers to ensure the fruits are distributed evenly and the whole community on Alderney benefit.
If some are well on their way to becoming billionaires whilst the people on the island are given a few lousy pence off the price of electricity units it’s this scenario I would rather be avoided.
I’m well aware Alderney has suffered in many areas from lack of investment for a considerable time. I’m just hoping this golden goose lays for the greater good of everybody.
I am given nothing to answer these important questions.
There is nothing saying what’s what. Nothing to say how Alderney residents will benefit? Nothing stating how much has been paid and to whom? Has a fair price even been achieved?
There are many questions that need answering. This is a massive step in the right direction for renewable energy. It’s something that will become more profitable and important as time and technology advances in the field. I would feel better knowing it’s being conducted correctly.
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This company is being ran by the private sector opposed to solely by the government to provide a public good. There are economic reasons for doing so and the states of Alderney have chosen to do this for those reasons, and that was up to them to make the decision. – not Guernsey’s or the bailiwick’s as a whole
The states of Alderney have also only Leased the sea bed to the company for what is a relatively short period of time for the time being.
As has been brought up again and again by different individual’s Alderney’s fuel and Electricity price are at the moment sky-high when compared to anywhere else e.g Guernsey or England and are certainly not looking to improve.
This new scheme would allow for the island to not only become more sustainable – a thing that in the current climate, every country should be aware of doing-, more energy secure and in the long term can and most likely comparably lower the overall electricity and power price throughout the island which who know’s may encourage investment, development and employment.
However some individuals could get rich off the back of this and, they probably will- god for them, they have invested a lot of time, money and dedication to the scheme – however this small cost, of a few individuals will most defiantly outweigh the dwindling amounts of fuel, increasing pollution around the islands and the every increasing energy insecurity of purely having to import fuel to the island.
The inhabitants of Alderney have been very well informed throughout the whole process – I’m currently living in guernsey and am still well on top of all the news going on in the island, including this venture.
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Sixty five years is a relatively short period of time?
If others have been locked out from benefiting for this long I feel questions need to be asked and answers provided.
The money generated from this could easily secure a prosperous future for the bailiwick as a whole.
I just don’t want to see a few fat cats getting mega-wealthy whilst others are left to go hungry.
I’m sure more will be asked in the not too distant future.
I’m stirring the pot out of curiosity and to be sure a resource such as this benefits the majority compared to a tiny select minority like is the case in Russia.
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The secret to understanding ARE is to understand the legislation under which it is operating. It has been granted very long term rights to the use of around 50% of the viable tidal waters around Alderney. However, the States of Alderney did retain certain rights and powers of veto.
The driving forces behind ARE have put in a lot of time, money and effort to get it to where it is today. They deserve to be rewarded. However, the steps that need to be taken to make the huge financial commitments now being discussed in the news surely involve the States of Alderney. I hope and trust that suitably qualified and talented negotiaters have represented the islands interests. ARE should not be allowed to make an absolute fortune by being some sort of middleman in this.
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I’m glad somebody else, other than all concerned with ARE, has identified the magnitude of this. The rewards will be colossal.
I also agree they should be rewarded. I don’t want to see an Alderney oligarch reaping everything when he owns nothing other than good knowledge of the area and the wisdom of how to exploit the power generated by the tidal flow.
Managed properly, it would secure a long prosperous future for the bailiwick as a whole.
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