Comments on: Beau Sejour and Footes Lane could be run by private sector

Comments on: Beau Sejour and Footes Lane could be run by private sector http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/ Guernsey News, Sport, Community & Lifestyle Tue, 21 May 2013 15:55:33 +0100 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Jim http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-200432 Jim Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:44:55 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-200432 I think it's a good exercise to consider some kind of private/public partnership with clauses which suitably covers the service and membership fee structure etc. The States are not necessarily obliged to put the management of BS out to tender and could withdraw, some comments suggests the process is imminent. I would have thought expressions of interest would be received but perhaps C&L have already received these. The problem with Beau Sejour is any operator would need to spend a lot of money on making changes. Ten years is not very long for a capital investment but if the management are expected to run it in its current form, it won't work. For example the way the gym is set up. You stand on a treadmill for example looking through a pane of glass watching people entering leaving the building, very odd arrangement and the high ceilings must result in a lot of wasted energy. i bet this must be part of the reason for it costing so much to run. Why not offer concessions for part of the centre's operations. The bar leisure area needs an overhaul, it's always empty there's no ambience. The heating bill for the centre must be sky high with all the open spaces. Basically the whole operation needs examining and a business plan put together to make it work for the operator, the States or whoever and of course the public. A private operator would I think it’s a good exercise to consider some kind of private/public partnership with clauses which suitably covers the service and membership fee structure etc. The States are not necessarily obliged to put the management of BS out to tender and could withdraw, some comments suggests the process is imminent. I would have thought expressions of interest would be received but perhaps C&L have already received these.

The problem with Beau Sejour is any operator would need to spend a lot of money on making changes. Ten years is not very long for a capital investment but if the management are expected to run it in its current form, it won’t work. For example the way the gym is set up. You stand on a treadmill for example looking through a pane of glass watching people entering leaving the building, very odd arrangement and the high ceilings must result in a lot of wasted energy. i bet this must be part of the reason for it costing so much to run.

Why not offer concessions for part of the centre’s operations. The bar leisure area needs an overhaul, it’s always empty there’s no ambience.
The heating bill for the centre must be sky high with all the open spaces.

Basically the whole operation needs examining and a business plan put together to make it work for the operator, the States or whoever and of course the public.

A private operator would

]]> By: Tokyo News http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-200419 Tokyo News Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:21:28 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-200419 I am sorry but what gives you the athority to make such claims and juxtapose your critisisms with what evidence, surely in this vastly growing economy there is many more jabs at the claiment that could persire in stead of some meanial jab at costs. I am sorry but what gives you the athority to make such claims and juxtapose your critisisms with what evidence, surely in this vastly growing economy there is many more jabs at the claiment that could persire in stead of some meanial jab at costs.

]]> By: GSYFRED http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199948 GSYFRED Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:26:40 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199948 I Highly agree! Beausejor gym is expensive enough! and its ment to be for the people. a lot of peopl ehave worked hard with the leasure center and now this, typical guernsey I Highly agree!
Beausejor gym is expensive enough! and its ment to be for the people. a lot of peopl ehave worked hard with the leasure center and now this, typical guernsey

]]> By: Chris Green http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199716 Chris Green Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:46:06 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199716 I agree PLP. We do need to remember that less well-off members of our community do use the Leisure Centre and we don't want to price them out of attending the gym, going to use the swimming pool or attending stage performances. I agree PLP. We do need to remember that less well-off members of our community do use the Leisure Centre and we don’t want to price them out of attending the gym, going to use the swimming pool or attending stage performances.

]]> By: PLP http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199677 PLP Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:08:57 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199677 Thanks for posting Chris Green. As far as I'm concerned Beau Sejour exists to provide facilities for the entire community, and particularly those who otherwise might not be able to afford it. All you need to do is walk down the street to realise Guernsey has a ticking obesity time bomb. Also, cases of depression are on the increase, as is low self-esteem. Regular exercise can help combat these and other mental health issues. If we remove affordable exercise services from the public, and particularly low income households, we will exacerbate these already problematic issues. Your comment about Oscar Wilde is absolutely spot on and puts it in a nutshell. Decisions should not solely be the remit of bean counters. Beau Sejour delivers value to the public beyond simple financial cost. It should not be handed over lightly. Thanks for posting Chris Green. As far as I’m concerned Beau Sejour exists to provide facilities for the entire community, and particularly those who otherwise might not be able to afford it.

All you need to do is walk down the street to realise Guernsey has a ticking obesity time bomb. Also, cases of depression are on the increase, as is low self-esteem. Regular exercise can help combat these and other mental health issues.

If we remove affordable exercise services from the public, and particularly low income households, we will exacerbate these already problematic issues.

Your comment about Oscar Wilde is absolutely spot on and puts it in a nutshell. Decisions should not solely be the remit of bean counters. Beau Sejour delivers value to the public beyond simple financial cost. It should not be handed over lightly.

Report abuse

]]> By: donkey http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199631 donkey Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:24:00 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199631 Could not turn a kettle on !! Could not turn a kettle on !!

]]> By: Chris Green http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199558 Chris Green Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:58:05 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199558 I think we need to tread with extreme caution before we sell off Beau Se Jour and / or the facility at Footes Lane. Beau Se Jour in particular needs to be run along more commercial lines, but that does not necessarily mean selling it off to the highest bidder as quickly as possible. Therefore, my preference would be to see it remain firmly in the public sector, but allow Culture & Leisure to explore a number of practical changes on the ground to reduce the operating loss of £800,000 per year, possibly by increasing modestly some of the charges, carrying out a thorough review of all of the services and facilities currently on offer with a view to finding efficiencies and getting more in via sponsorship, advertising etc. If this was done with the guarantee that the Centre would remain in public ownership, it would allow these efficiencies to be done in a more managed way without destroying the very heart of this important Community-based leisure centre. Oscar Wilde defined a cynic as somebody "who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing". The danger with the FTP in general and with the plans for Beau Se Jour in particular is that we obsess about the bottom-line cost of particular services but we neglect the real value that ordinary people get from community facilities and services.Full out-sourcing to the private sector may sound like an obvious solution to the problem, but it would inevitably lead to higher charges and a lower level of services over time. The only possible circumstances whereby I may feel justified in supporting such out-sourcing would be if a very robust service level agreement (SLA) was put in place under the right regulatory regime; but that remains to be seen. Such regulation can be tricky and Guernsey does not have a perfect track record in capturing good regulation for newly privatised or commercialised services. In the end, I feel that Beau Se Jour can and should be run in a more business-like manner, in order to tackle the current financial losses; but this should take place with the guarantee that they remain community assets in the public sector.If however that is not going to prove possible, for heaven's sake let's get the regulation and SLA right from the start. I think we need to tread with extreme caution before we sell off Beau Se Jour and / or the facility at Footes Lane. Beau Se Jour in particular needs to be run along more commercial lines, but that does not necessarily mean selling it off to the highest bidder as quickly as possible. Therefore, my preference would be to see it remain firmly in the public sector, but allow Culture & Leisure to explore a number of practical changes on the ground to reduce the operating loss of £800,000 per year, possibly by increasing modestly some of the charges, carrying out a thorough review of all of the services and facilities currently on offer with a view to finding efficiencies and getting more in via sponsorship, advertising etc. If this was done with the guarantee that the Centre would remain in public ownership, it would allow these efficiencies to be done in a more managed way without destroying the very heart of this important Community-based leisure centre.

Oscar Wilde defined a cynic as somebody “who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing”. The danger with the FTP in general and with the plans for Beau Se Jour in particular is that we obsess about the bottom-line cost of particular services but we neglect the real value that ordinary people get from community facilities and services.Full out-sourcing to the private sector may sound like an obvious solution to the problem, but it would inevitably lead to higher charges and a lower level of services over time. The only possible circumstances whereby I may feel justified in supporting such out-sourcing would be if a very robust service level agreement (SLA) was put in place under the right regulatory regime; but that remains to be seen. Such regulation can be tricky and Guernsey does not have a perfect track record in capturing good regulation for newly privatised or commercialised services.

In the end, I feel that Beau Se Jour can and should be run in a more business-like manner, in order to tackle the current financial losses; but this should take place with the guarantee that they remain community assets in the public sector.If however that is not going to prove possible, for heaven’s sake let’s get the regulation and SLA right from the start.

]]> By: Risky http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199316 Risky Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:11:45 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199316 Not only OHara Chiltons the same between them they have done nothing for Beau Sejour.Chilton was walking through Reception one evening when there was a power cut.As Cheif Minister you would be forgiven for thinking that he may have been concerned and checked with the Duty Manager to see if all was under controll.Wrong as he left the centre he never even glanced back. To be sure there are more Cheifs than indians and I really believe that thinning them out from the top and takeing more notice of and listening to the staff that mix with the public a way could be found to make money at the centre.you have to give the people what they want and need. As for the cafe just cleaner and better supervised. would be a start. Not only OHara Chiltons the same between them they have done nothing for Beau Sejour.Chilton was walking through Reception one evening when there was a power cut.As Cheif Minister you would be forgiven for thinking that he may have been concerned and checked with the Duty Manager to see if all was under controll.Wrong as he left the centre he never even glanced back.
To be sure there are more Cheifs than indians and I really believe that thinning them out from the top and takeing more notice of and listening to the staff that mix with the public a way could be found to make money at the centre.you have to give the people what they want and need.
As for the cafe just cleaner and better supervised. would be a start.

]]> By: Billythefish http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199276 Billythefish Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:45:26 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199276 It's a disaster waiting to happen. If the centre loses £800k on a turnover of what, £3m, is it? Any private operator would want, say a 10% net margin at worst, so £300k profit, so somehow have to find £1.1m of savings/new revenue. Err... not likely without monstrous hikes in rates, charging for parking there, charging for walking on the carpets, heck, charging for using the air! It's a community service, it should stay that way. It’s a disaster waiting to happen. If the centre loses £800k on a turnover of what, £3m, is it?

Any private operator would want, say a 10% net margin at worst, so £300k profit, so somehow have to find £1.1m of savings/new revenue.

Err… not likely without monstrous hikes in rates, charging for parking there, charging for walking on the carpets, heck, charging for using the air!

It’s a community service, it should stay that way.

]]> By: rotten society http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199263 rotten society Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:14:12 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199263 The main problem with bogey joe is the upper management. When you have the likes Of 'look at me, smile theres a camera' Mike O'Hara in charge who has only been to the Centre on work related matters 4 times in 4+ years then clearly he doesn't care. Only other times he comes up is for functions that he's been invited to. And then he still blanks the staff, never seen him speak with any of the shop floor staff. He knows NOTHING about Beau Sejour and how its run. The skate park that he promised is still months away, he's cost the centre thousands because he wouldn't sanction the disposal of the flumes, knowing full well they would never be fixed but wanted to look good to the public as 'trying to save them'. All the staff were dismayed when he was put back up for CL minister. Beau Sejour wouldnt lose half the money it did if he wasn't in charge. The main problem with bogey joe is the upper management. When you have the likes Of ‘look at me, smile theres a camera’ Mike O’Hara in charge who has only been to the Centre on work related matters 4 times in 4+ years then clearly he doesn’t care. Only other times he comes up is for functions that he’s been invited to. And then he still blanks the staff, never seen him speak with any of the shop floor staff. He knows NOTHING about Beau Sejour and how its run. The skate park that he promised is still months away, he’s cost the centre thousands because he wouldn’t sanction the disposal of the flumes, knowing full well they would never be fixed but wanted to look good to the public as ‘trying to save them’. All the staff were dismayed when he was put back up for CL minister. Beau Sejour wouldnt lose half the money it did if he wasn’t in charge.

]]> By: Yvonne Burford http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199248 Yvonne Burford Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:48:13 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199248 I agree, the cafe has enormous scope for improvement. It is very uninviting in both atmosphere and in what it sells, but these sort of improvements should be able to be realised under the current set up. I have also always felt that promoting cars in the foyer to be inappropriate as well as getting in the way. The whole foyer and cafe area could be a fantastic social space. I agree, the cafe has enormous scope for improvement. It is very uninviting in both atmosphere and in what it sells, but these sort of improvements should be able to be realised under the current set up.

I have also always felt that promoting cars in the foyer to be inappropriate as well as getting in the way. The whole foyer and cafe area could be a fantastic social space.

]]> By: Guernsey121 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-199226 Guernsey121 Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:17:36 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-199226 I've no objection to BSLC renting out advertising or promotional space if it brings in a good return. In fact I'd like to see more of BS evidencing a business like attitude as I set out here http://guernsey1-2-1.blogspot.com/2012/11/pay-to-play-pt-2.html It seems a lot of people are opposed to this tendering and even the C&L minister says he thinks it is a bad idea. So why is it going ahead? What can a private firm do which our government can't? I think we should be told. I’ve no objection to BSLC renting out advertising or promotional space if it brings in a good return.

In fact I’d like to see more of BS evidencing a business like attitude as I set out here

http://guernsey1-2-1.blogspot.com/2012/11/pay-to-play-pt-2.html

It seems a lot of people are opposed to this tendering and even the C&L minister says he thinks it is a bad idea.

So why is it going ahead?

What can a private firm do which our government can’t?

I think we should be told.

]]> By: Maz http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-198701 Maz Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:58:17 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-198701 Totally agree with everything in your post. No way should we hand it over to a private company, Capita are having a laugh again at our expense! Totally agree with everything in your post. No way should we hand it over to a private company, Capita are having a laugh again at our expense!

]]> By: PLP http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-198690 PLP Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:37:46 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-198690 I reckon we should get Mr Brittas to run it for a year. By the end of that everyone will be begging to go back to the "good old days" ! I reckon we should get Mr Brittas to run it for a year. By the end of that everyone will be begging to go back to the “good old days” !

]]> By: King Maker http://www.thisisguernsey.com/news/2012/11/10/beau-sejour-and-footes-lane-could-be-run-by-private-sector/#comment-198677 King Maker Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:06:27 +0000 http://www.thisisguernsey.com/?p=153835#comment-198677 Hopeless - first class what? mush - so we should all pay for someone to prance around on stage as its their right as 'Guernseymen'? Ill stay out of my hole for the moment thanks, opinions are like backsides - you probably have two or more. Hopeless – first class what? mush – so we should all pay for someone to prance around on stage as its their right as ‘Guernseymen’? Ill stay out of my hole for the moment thanks, opinions are like backsides – you probably have two or more.

]]>