Comments on: Lay rep: decision on women bishops right

By: Nick Le P

Nick Le P — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:31:25 +0000

Paul I take your point, however, the Lords bit doesn’t apply to Guernsey and there are plenty of women already in the Upper House.

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By: PLP

PLP — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:56:29 +0000

Rachel – I don’t think Benedict (or anyone) is suggesting that people will be refused entry to paradise because of their stance on women bishops. That is based solely on faith in Jesus Christ and not your position within the church, so being a male bishop in itself is no guarantee of entry into heaven either. Jesus himself told the self-righteous religious leaders of the day that tax collectors and prostitutes would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before them.

Nevertheless the Bible lays down certain criteria for people who should lead the church – things like integrity, good behaviour, monogamy, Christian maturity, not given to drunkenness, gentleness and non-violence (among others) are included. If these were followed more closely it’s fair to say we wouldn’t have so many cases of abuse within the church.

In all honesty I don’t care much whether it’s politically correct or not, what I care about is fidelity and integrity within a church that is told by its God to take the Bible seriously. It’s also fair to say that opinion within the church is divided on the issue of women in leadership. This is down to the interpretation of particular texts, and whether instructions (particularly in Pauls Epistles) should be considered as timeless or only for a particular cultural context.

It’s inevitable there will be disagreement in a community as large as the worldwide Christian church. What matters is how that disagreement is handled – in love and unity or with bitterness and schism.

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By: PLP

PLP — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:41:53 +0000

Nick Le P – normally I’d agree with you, however as I’ve already mentioned on this thread the problem lies with its entanglement with the state. Things like seats on the Lords make the CofE part church part de facto political party.

You can’t really blame people with no real church connection to want a say in an institution that technically makes up part of the government – and an unelected part at that.

As Martino said, if the CofE wasn’t a state church he’d lose interest – I reckon that applies to the vast majority of non-church goers too.

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By: Rachel

Rachel — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:22:25 +0000

I was divinely inspired to write this post.

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By: Rachel

Rachel — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:15:23 +0000

Benedict, Jesus also had long hair and wore long robes- doesn’t mean that you are any less christian if you don’t.

Imagine a virtuous person at the holy gates and Jesus saying “sorry you can’t come in because you wore the wrong clothes” or “sorry you can’t come in because you were a female bishop”… It’s just ridiculous. These are just excuses for oppression.

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By: Matthew

Matthew — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:05:22 +0000

So why did the holocaust happen?

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By: Nick Le P

Nick Le P — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:33:06 +0000

Ironic isn’t it that when Christians want to object to Sunday trading, they are told to mind their own business yet when the Church does something, non churchgoers feel they have a right to a say.

Double standards or is it me?

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By: Benedict

Benedict — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:37:24 +0000

Points [1] and [2] can be demonstrated by academics in a variety of ways.
[3] is my opinion.
Allegedly Julie exists.

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By: Benedict

Benedict — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:29:08 +0000

Britain declared war on Germany in September 1939 because Hitler invaded Poland on 1st September 1939. Britain and France were bound by a treaty obligation to go to the defence of Poland. Sadly neither country did anything effective to help Poland at that stage.
At no point was the Jewish question a ‘casus belli’.
Britain and France made a stand against Hitler because of his appetite for invading countries – Austria; northern Czechoslovakia [Sudetenland]1938; southern Czechoslovakia, 1939. At that juncture the Anglo-French axis said ‘Enough is enough!’ and gave their promise to Poland. In August Nazi Germany formed an alliance with communist USSR and the two powers carved up Poland.
At no stage in any of this was religion an issue.
I could have used this to make my original point. It just takes a bit longer than a reference to the Nazi attack on Russia – Fascism v. Communism, manifestly not a religious struggle.
Thank you for your question.

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By: Matthew

Matthew — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 13:08:42 +0000

Forgive me Benedict, but was WW2 not already well underway by 1941? I thought Hitler’s persecution of the Jews was the primary cause of the war?

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By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:06:11 +0000

Allegedly

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By: Benedict

Benedict — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:26:46 +0000

I just don’t believe that jesus would approve of any policy of exclusion in any context. The virtuous do not exclude.’

1.Technically, this is a circular argument, the conclusion is built into the initial premise.
2. Jesus did not appoint women as his apostles.
On the other hand he, and the church, elevated the standing of women. And women were amongst the most enthusiastic supporters of the church.

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By: Benedict

Benedict — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:13:39 +0000

Dear Pete,
1.The ‘Old Testament’ part of the Bible was in existence before Christ walked on this earth. Some parts of the Gospels (‘New Testament’) were possibly written within one generation of his death.
2.Christianity was taken beyond Palestine and was established in many countries within a generation of Christ’s death.
3. If the Beatitudes were indeed composed by a committee (rather than being the words of Christ), I can only say that they were divinely inspired.

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By: cyril serbant

cyril serbant — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:42:29 +0000

Hmmm, well it’s their club so they should be free to set the rules, if you don’t like it don’t play (and there is something to be said for sticking to your beliefs no matter what I or other hand wringing liberals think of them).

What I would suggest however is that if you and your chums want exemption from certain bits of legislation then the state should not give you any tax breaks, charitable status or let you sit in the legislator.