AFR payment to remain secret
Wednesday 27th February 2013, 10:48AM GMT.
HOME has refused to publicly release any of the costs to the States of the AFR case.
But the department was split on the decision, its minister Jonathan Le Tocq, pictured, revealed this morning.
He faced repeated questioning on the decision, but stressed several times that it was a complex case involving many parties and the department did not want to set a precedent for others working to agree best value for money in public settlements.
- Full details and reaction in tomorrow’s Guernsey Press
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In a word. Disgusting.
How on earth can this be done?
What a complete joke.
SHAMEFUL.
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A considered, strong and uncompromising decision by Home, Congratulation Home. Too much time and energy is wasted in the States by popularist vote seeking. Lets move on to important debates.
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Are you the Mike who works at St james’ Chambers?
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Mike – is that Mike Torode by any chance?
If so, then you were even worse (by a mile) than JLT when you were in charge of the Home Dept.
JLT and his gang wouldn’t know probity if it bit them.
Hardly popularist – it’s in the interests of the public that there were failures which have been quantified by means of pecuniary reward – which I, as a taxpayer, pay.
I am entitled to know.
Yours sincerely,
More Local Than You, LLB (Hons)
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This island is corrupt beyond belief. Utterly disgraceful. They should all be sacked. This is the worst government the people of Guernsey have ever been burdened with.
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Really, the island is hardly corrupt compared to what goes on elsewhere believe me and how exactly do you measure worst government ever. Having said that we should know at least how many numbers were in the settlement figure
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Oh come on! They threw away £2.5m last year to a fraudster and then this? Can anyone estimate a figure? Let’s say another £2.5m. That’s £5m wasted in just 10 months! Any level headed person would think that is the worst government ever.
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Last year it was a different assembly – in case you can’t remember the island population voted these people in, so really we have no-one to blame but ourselves for picking the wrong people.
If you want to make a difference Ectopudding, stand for election yourself.
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No thank you grammargirl, I’m busy trying to rebuild my career after numerous setbacks. Plus I have no public speaking or people skills so am certainly not qualified to be a politician, that’s why i vote for people who are supposed to do the job.
I don’t think the public are to blame in any way for picking the wrong people as we voted for what we thought were the right people based on manifestos which are now clearly just a pack of lies on an A4 piece of paper.
BTW, last year’s assembly was broken up at the end of March, both the fraud and the latest debacle happened after the election.
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Public settlement? then make it public or resign.
This story will continue from the public until justified.
Many parties involved? The law office,The Police Committee and employees,The Home Department Minister,Treasury and Rescourse,chief officer[civil service].
Please tell us where the funds that have been paid to AFR going to be debited from and will there be any resignations?.
Will the CAPTAIN of his ship go down to calm the waters above his head?
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Queue a lot of moaners on here now that are happy to moan but never do anything about it !!
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Ok stoopid what do you suggest we do take to the streets with our Kalashnikovs to overthrow the despotic government and secret police.
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notsostoopid
I wish you had added a few lines saying what you think we should be doing about it NOW rather than when Le Tocq revisits his friends in the Castel begging them to vote again for ‘honest Joe’
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And it is precisely this attitude of “can’t do nothing” that allows them to go on doing exactly what they want.
We have allowed this situation to happen, not overnight but over many many years just gradually creeping up.
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Exactly my point ‘no one’ , the first 2 comments on my post asking me what i think they should do proves my point really. I wander how many people on here actually bothered to go and vote at the last election and spoilt their ballet paper. Thats doing something to try and change a situation, most people on here probably just didnt bother going to vote than think they can moan about how things are done, when in fact they have no real rights to an opinion.
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The vocal minority like to shout their piece. They’re like the labour party in the UK, they just enjoy feeling righteously indignant about something but don’t actually contribute to solving the problem.
Maybe they voted, maybe they didn’t. Maybe the deputies they voted for got in, maybe they didn’t.
It’s a democracy, folks. What he have is what the majority wanted.
Vote better next time.
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notsostoopid.
I am a voter and voted for change.Reading each manistesto i was assuming for better than others voted for.All candidates made promises that have not come to fruition yet.At present they are weak in the house being their ears are open and their mouths shut.
We can all be inventive deputies here on forums but we are not afraid to voice our opinions of the good and bad of our elected deputies in government.
If I was chief Minister i would be concearned with the waste of public money being given away through their own downfalls.
I would be making changes by sacking ministers who are weak in government.
I would want a job appraisal through the senior civil service board.
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But Diarmuid
At the Vale election ( such as it was) they all promised so very much in their manifestos
They were all so very good that it was heart wrenching to leave any one of them out
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These clowns and the police are accountable to us the people, answer the question or resign. We were promised open and transparent government.
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I remember it was only a couple of weeks ago when my little grandson asked me if ALL fairy stories begin with ‘Once upon a time’
I said ‘No,some begin with ..if I’m elected’
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This makes me laugh, especially when the next Press article is about how good governance needs clear communication!
Well theyve clearly communicated that the masses dont need to know of their mistakes.
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The true face of open and transparent government in Guernsey! What a joke and they wonder why people have so much apathy towards politics!!
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So predictable and I’m sure the figure is so large it would disgust most taxpayers.
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The home dep should resign. How can Jonathan Le Tocq sleep at night especially be a church man
He must a guilt conscious
We voted for change we bean short changed
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Clearly you haven’t really studied the Bible that closely, Iceman. Why don’t you talk to JLT directly and ask him how well he sleeps? I’m sure he’d walk you through it.
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@ grammargirl…..you mean as in “Walk with your hand in God’s”…????
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Vic, JLT is a good mate but I’d be very disappointed if I discovered he is actually God….in fact I’d give serious thought to jumping over the fence and becoming an atheist! ;-)
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Sorry Vic, could you quote chapter and verse for me on that one – personally I don’t see the reference.
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@ grammargirl…PLP seems to have understood…why can’t you?
@PLP I did have Jon Le Tocq at my door once wishing to discuss something about a letter I had written in the Press. I knew immediately he was not God…first the lack of hair on both head and chin and the fact that he was actually at my door. The last time I had God at my door he looked more like Tony Webber !!!
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I have hair on both head and chin….but fear not, I don’t think I’m God either.
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….and I think Tony Webber’s been deposed too. He’s always writing letters to the Press talking about how much better things were when he was a deity….
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Vic, if what you said about JLT coming to your door is true then I would find that extremely alarming. No public figure should ever come knocking on your door after a critical letter in the press. He should have responded by letter. This sort of behaviour belongs in the last century!
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our new states is open and honest,hahahahahahaha
the dictators of the world will be proud of you only telling the people what you want them to know.mr putin will give you the order of lenin for that one.
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maybe the sum has to stay quiet now its known who to sue for police incompetence,watch this space for more legal cases to come.
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This lot must already be in pole position now for the honour of being the worst States ever! I was so disappointed in the last couple of assemblies and hoped for a better lot this time but already they have been a shambles and we have a long way to go! Hopes have been shattered and I am ashamed to think I voted for some of them. How many other issues like this one will they hide under some restriction or other? Guernsey may hope but we will never get real open and transparent government too many in influential positions do not want this. Guernsey people should know their place!
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I don’t think they should make it public. Maybe it would encourage more claims and diminish negotiating power in relation to any future settlements.
Jonathan Le Tocq and the board are in a very difficult position and it was a tough call.
I think this is a complex legal matter, not a stupid mistake.
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unfortunately it would appear the majority of ppl are believing to be exactly the opposite.
As the other Press article clearly alludes, good communication is a key to good governance. So where and how does this exactly fit into that?
Also, JLT has not done anything useful since arriving at his post.
It would highly likely encourage more claims, but that only highlights the massive flaws our government has in it.
We as tax payers are completely FED UP with the continuing misuse of our taxes paid.
Whos heard of what happened to that £2.6 mill they gave away?!
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are you sugggesting that the police regularly raid companies or homes on little evidence?So there is a large backlog of claims in the offing? If this is so then are they not totally incompetent at their jobs
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Quelle bloody surprise !
Spartacus has decided to adopt the ‘correct not to disclose line’
Sparty if you’re really so desperate to have somebody to chat to / argue with during your spare time why don’t you join the WI or perhaps the Samaritans and do some good
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Spartacus
Does responsbility and accountability not coming into it then?
JLT and his board are only in a very difficult position because certain individuals behaved recklessly in the first place. Without that, there would have been nothing to compensate and therefore no story!
It seems that taxpayers are sick and tired of taxpayers’ money being used to compensate for mistakes. We all accept that mistakes will be made from time to time. But the “nuclear fallout” from trying to cover up the mistake at all costs and thus avoid accountability is clearly viewed, I am sure, far more seriously and far less sympathetically by taxpayers than the mistake itself.
An honest mistake might be a serious one, but at least it will have been made honestly. A cover-up like this, by contrast, is a calculated, deliberate step to avoid accountability, and for which there can be no excuse for any government with any credibility whatsoever.
Honest and transparent government? Yes, but only if and when it suits them. Totally unacceptable.
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Good post GM. Most of us learn as children that honesty is the best policy. My own experiences taught me that while I mightn’t escape punishment, coming clean was far better than trying to cover up the offence and/or trying to blame somebody else.
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I believe this was an honest mistake. I think it was a complex legal matter, not a gung-ho reckless mistake.
Mistakes happen, it’s not a perfect world and we are all human.
Jonathan le Tocq and his board are not to blame for the mistake. They were tasked with deciding whether to make the compensation amount public. The decision was split and if I was cynical I would suggest that those who wanted to protect themselves from public backlash voted to reveal the amount. Those who genuinely want to safeguard best value for future settlements (which are inevitable) voted to keep it confidential.
I voted for Jonathon le Tocq, I don’t agree with everything he says or does but I believe he is a man of integrity and I trust him.
I just don’t see this as a cover up, the mistake is transparent and I suppose the compensation settled will have been significantly lower than would have been awarded had it gone all the way through the system publicly.
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You really are a joke Spartacus.
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No of course you don’t Spartacus because as usual you just want to stir up an argument with anyone on here that will bite.
The case for not going public on this because it would ‘encourage more claims and diminish negotiating power’ is complete BS.
Every litigation case that involves compensation and or damages would and is considered and judged on its own set of parameters
and merits so exposing how much AFR were paid in this case couldn’t possibly be used as a benchmark for future litigation cases against the states – it’s just another pathetic excuse to try and keep the truth from us.
Damages and compensation aside, there is no reason why we shouldn’t know what the other costs were in terms of legal representation etc. If I had been in Le Tocq’s position this morning I would have at least made these costs publically known and saved myself from at least some of the sh*t storm that is headed his way.
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forest
Why would the board want to keep the truth from us? Just for fun?
Compensation is judged on the merits of each case but settlements are separate negotiations to try to mitigate the overall costs.
I agree that it seems that some costs could be made public but Le Tocq is bound by his board’s decision.
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Spartacus, ,why would the board want to keep the truth from us? Just for fun?’
Are you serious? Where would you like me to begin? Covering up for the law officers, police officers and Rice, the judge that signed the warrant the inevitable huge legal costs involved in trying to defend their illegal actions and then of course the inevitable self protectionism of being on the political board of said department knowing damn well that they need to be seen to be in charge even though they know and we know that this is not the case.
If you honestly believe that the lack of transparency and accountability in this case is acceptable then maybe you should consider going back into local politics, I think you’d fit in perfectly.
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forest
I don’t agree that the board would put their heads on the chopping block in order to protect the police and law officers, that is not logical at all. However I do believe they would do what they feel is in the best interests of the public.
I believe the police and law officers acted in good faith in this matter in the interests of the public and it is a complicated legal technicality not a careless error.
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I often think that Sparty can’t go any further in taking the oppositional stance for the same reason that dogs lick their bits, and then she does, regardless, it seems, of how completely and utterly idiotic – in this case -naive as a day old baby – it makes her look.
‘Why do politicians not reveal certain things to us?’, if you honestly don’t know the usual answer to that question, then for god’s sake, please, Sparty, get into politics, AGAIN, then you can tell us all wtf the leaders that we put there to represent OUR best interests (but who are, instead, serving their own) are actually up behind closed doors….
err, hang on, I’ve just read my last few words about cover ups…..
ignore my suggestion about re-entering the arena, Sparty, someone lost their job over that last time, didn’t they….? ;)))
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Looking at the individual board members I just don’t believe they would have bought into any corruption and conspiracy within 1 year of being elected.
I don’t believe that everything can or should be published. It is naive and idiotic to think that could be possible. The settlement information wouldn’t even have been available under any freedom of information law.
This matter is understandable if you try to get your head around it.
Don’t you trust Dave Jones?
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shock horror Spartacus take s the exact opposite position to people!
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“shock horror Spartacus take s the exact opposite position to people!”
Surely we now know she is an ex-politician?
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You really love to go against the grain don’t you Spartacus.
Someone mentioned on another thread that you are a troll
I’m starting to agree with them.
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MarkB
No you are wrong about me.
I don’t go against the grain for the sake of it, I think things through for myself and speak my mind regardless of other opinions. This is unusual as humans have a tendency to act like sheep and I don’t seem to have that trait.
Would you prefer I kept my views to myself? That won’t stop me thinking them. I just happen to understand and agree with this decision by the democratically elected board.
Confidentiality of settlements is not unique to Guernsey it is a contentious and debated subject everywhere. Why does my opinion make you feel uncomfortable? This decision is in the best interests of the public.
If you participate on a public forum you need to be open to all opinions. Getting nasty is just childish.
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Baaaa!!!… Have you ever noticed that you’re usually the only one to disagree with everyone else ……Does that not tell you something.
You are more than welcome to your opinion, but I think you sometime forget that it is just that “your opinion”
“Getting nasty is just childish”…. I have read plenty of you replies to other posters, practice what you preach I would say.
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MarkB
I’m never the only one to disagree.
This is just typical hysteria whipped up by the press. It’s not a constitutional crisis, conspiracy or a threat to democracy. That’s just my humble opinion!
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Yes, disgusting, but did anyone realy expect anything other than this.
I’ve voted for nealy 40 years. I rangled with my conscience over wether to vote last time, I voted in hope; I shall never vote again-and goodbye freedom of information in Guernsey.
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Pouque – you do realise that by not voting you are simply giving up your ability to change the way we are governed?
Defeatism like this is worthless; where are the people singing the song of angry men? We should be more like them.
You have a voice. Use it.
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What on earth does the Minister really mean when he fears the consequences of creating a precedent etc.
Seems to me to be a cobbled excuse to avoid disclosure.
Excuse rejected.
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Well, whatever the figure is, in future the starting figure for settlement negotiations would be double.
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Based on what report you dug up on the internet?
Or have you made that up?
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Another area you have become expert in sparty you ole trouble maker you.
The board may want to keep this from us because of self interest something which you alluded in one of your posts a while back. Was a different subject but you did make the accusation about deputies and self interest or have you forgotten that remark?.
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I don’t see any self interest for the board in this decision. How does this confidentiality benefit them?
However I do see why it is in the best interests of the public, financially.
I have seen self interest in other political decisions but not this one.
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Re the self interest i was just being a bit sarcastic Sparty :)
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How do I remove my consent to be governed?
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Move to a different country.
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Holla Stephen!
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Disgusting and pathetic outcome…
Not surprised though.
Are the civil servants not aware they are supposed to ‘serve’ the public?
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FAO The Home Department
I would wager that this will be TIGs biggest thread responded to to date !
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The reason it remains a secret is mainly to protect those who made the mistakes in signing the illegal raid warrant in the first place.
This scandal goes right to the top of our Police Force and Judiciary.
Protect them at your peril,those who support non disclosure, as Joe Public will not support a system that is rotten to the core.
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I hate to say I told you so but I TOLD YOU SO.
If they can`t be bothered to tell us what they spend OUR money on then at the next election DON`T VOTE FOR ANY OF THE B******S.
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I think this is the most outrageous thing I’ve ever read on this website. These people are accountable to the public. ‘The department was split on the decision’. You need to DEMAND the details of who in the department wanted to go public with this and who wanted to keep it a secret, so that you can vote appropriately at the next election. The ‘setting precedents’ defence is so flimsy it’s laughable. In fact, there is a precedent being set here, that YOUR government will only tell you what they want you to know. This behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud. NOW.
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Who is ‘you’ in your fourth sentence? I wouldn’t rely on the employees of TiG or GP to do it for you and report it accurately – find out for yourself ‘Wow’.
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grammargirl. ‘You’ in my fourth sentence refers to the voters in Guernsey. As a Guernseyman living overseas I am no longer part of that group.
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Why can’t you all just leave this alone now that the democratically elected members of the Home Department have decided the figure should remain secret? If you don’t like their decision it’s in your hands to vote them out at the next election and, if you’ve got the bottle for it, put yourselves up for election.
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Yawn! Being elected doesn’t give you the right to not act as the voters wish
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Or you could take the enlightened view that serving the best interests of the community doesn’t always mean doing what they tell you to do or what they agree with.
The people, as we have seen here on this page, are easily whipped into a frenzy and respond most strongly with their hearts and feelings, not their brains and thoughts.
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You’re not the Ted who happens to work at St James’ Chambers are you?
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Shameful behavior. This treats us all with complete contempt.
How do we arrange a vote of no confidence in our own government?
They aren’t fit for purpose.
W.S.E. etc……………
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LeTocq you need to resign as deputy chief minister.
Below is an excerpt from your manifesto. I suggest you have a good read again just to remind yourself just how much you’ve let yourself and your island down by going against your election promises.
Absolutley disgusted with you.
‘THIS island deserves to be represented democratically by people you can trust, respect and rely upon.
Politics should be about serving our community, helping us all to work together for one another’s good, not about personal ambitions and agendas.
We must therefore all work hard to identify, encourage and support politicians who will be worthy of serving us all in this way.
I believe that all those holding public office must work hard to restore the confidence and esteem that has been eroded in recent years.
My motto is PUBLIC SERVICE not self-service.
If the last four years have been challenging, then the next four are likely to be even more so.’
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And how by taking all this hate is he serving himself, forest?
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have you actually been following the story, grammar, or did you just read Forest’s comment and decide to chime in?
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I most certainly have been following the story; in fact, it is somewhat unavoidable having been front page news of late.
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I can only asume you are related to Deputy le Tocq grammergirl. I can see no other reason for your misguided loyalty.
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Forest. Kindly address me correctly. Spelling and grammar are important (GP writers take note) if you wish to be taken seriously.
I am not related, nor do I wish to be related, to JLT, and I do not appreciate the slur. I was simply pointing out that having ‘the finger’ pointed at you and not caving in does not make you a baddie.
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Are you surprised by this?…you should not be !!
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Mr. Ramble……surprised that you have been allowed to escape again….they really must make you a tighter strait-jacket….
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Personal abuse..is that the best you can do? shame on you
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…I am terribly sorry Mr Ramble….I’ll try better next time.
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What concerns me is the complete lack of accountability from all concerned in this sorry saga, somewhere, someone should be able to put their hand up and acknowledge the buck stops with me. We are ceding far too much power to the likes of the Chief Constable and the Ministers in the States, but we are receiving zero accountability, there is a fundamental flaw in the governance of this island
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I’d like to know who the minority members were and if, in the light of the taxpayer outrage, whether they would consider resigning their seat/seats on home and making the amount public?
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Interesting reading in the national newspapers tomorrow regarding a weak and currupt governing law and order body.
Facebook and twitter are going to have a field day on this article.
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This is a joke! What a load of numpties. If anyone out there knkows the figure come out anonymously and you will be a hero!
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“For the powerful, crimes are those that others commit.”
― Noam Chomsky
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I’ll take the liberty of quoting myself, this comment was made to Gavin St Pier on the PAC thread last night but mainly concerns this matter………………………
“All the public have seen out of this States is one expensive c**k up afer another, all with no-one being seen to take responsibility. YOU promised this would stop and YOU are OUR representative in government. You’ve been tasked with controlling spending and was also a central theme of your own manifesto. Do you take any responsibility or interest in cleaning up this filthy mess?
I think you, the Police, Judiciary and all involved have all grossly miscalculated how badly this has reflected on you all. We have a Chief Minister that seems silent on most matters and little or no concerned comment from the rest of you. Until this week as far as I know the only States members on record with ANY public comment on this matter were the two drawing the short straw to be on the RG phone-in the weekend after this story broke.
This case more than highlights that it’s civil servants really running the show here AND that they are untouchable both legally and professionally. What next? How far can they push it? No doubt tomorrow’s announcement will concentrate on the sums of money involved and the confidential nature of the agreement but listen to what we are saying online, read the letters to the paper.
The majority are also exceptionally concerned on why no action has been taken against those involved. The Police illegally broke into a property, in a planned operation at 3am, does this not concern you?”
As it happens the announcement actually concentrated on nothing, absolutely nothing!
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Hear Hear
I voted at the last election but I did not vote for Peter Harwood, at the moment he is conspious by his absense in all this…weak leadership, no accountability.
There should be some way of showing a vote of no confidence in our deputies!
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….@shock…it was thirteen hundred pounds something I heard in the pub yesterday….or was that the weight of the briefs provided by the QC?
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What are the states going to put up next to pay for this i know sack all of them.
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“the department did not want to set a precedent for others working to agree best value for money in public settlements…”
What a pathetic excuse of an excuse!
How often are the current States planning (or anticipating) finding themselves in this position?!
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Slack, another local fiasco. Worse than the last worse ever..
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I’ve just got back from the North Side chippy and there was a road block of about forty cars on both sides of the Bridge
There was a policeman moving up the line talking to each driver in turn.I went over and asked him what was going on and he said that Deputy Le Tocq had climbed onto the roof of The Church on the Rock in New Road and was threatening to set himself on fire.The road block was an effort to gather donations
” Donations ?” I said ” Well have much have you got?” ” About ten gallons so far” he replied
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This is why we need an unwatered down referenda law that includes recall,so that the public can demand today that all of the Home comitee face re-election at the first opportunity! NO excuses, no peer revue Joe Public wants and the majority speaks, end of discussion. Did you catch that Mr Perrot?
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JLT for CM.
JLT now working for the CM.
JLT made unpopular by the policies of the CM.
JLT not the man he claimed to be…… . . .
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Speaking as a Guern abroad, the people of Guernsey elected this shambles of a government, but I suspect that the problem doesn’t all lie with the elected states members, I suspect that behind each usless states member are numerous incompetent, overpaid, unsackable and unexperienced civil servants.
In my opinion, more culpability is required across all parts of government and civil service.
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From all the little snippets of information gleaned from the Press reports over the two years of this saga it would appear that …
*The Police had someone under arrest
*The ‘arrest clock’ starts running as soon as that arrest is made
*They believe some relevant evidence is stashed away at AFR’s offices ( not a bad place to hide incriminating evidence)
* With the clock running out the Police feel obliged to get a 3am search warrant ( what rank OK’d that warrant application ?)
* Mr Finch was given the Police grounds for requesting a warrant on oath in the middle of the night and duly signed on the dotted line before going back to bed
* With the clock still running the Police insisted on retrieving the ‘relevant evidence’at that time rather than wait till 9am and threatened to break down the door if no one turned up to unlock it
* They seized the ‘evidence’ which if my memory serves me right was a mobile phone and a computer
* Despite subsequent protests from AFR the Law Officers were happy to proceed with a prosecution (based in part on the seized evidence ?)
* Only days (possibly hours) before the start of the court case the Law Officers decided to drop the charges
* There followed several months of civil litigation by AFR against the Police Chief ( Mr Rice wasn’t even the Police Chief at the time )and then all the officers involved in the raid
* I presume that during this long drawn out ( and therefore very expensive) court battle the Law Officers were advising the Police Chief and his men
* I also presume that if Mr Rice hadn’t accepted the advice of a UK QC to drop it the Guernsey civil case would still be ongoing
* Having ‘won’ the civil case by default AFR naturally sought damages from the Police who are funded by taxpayers money
* A deal ( a good deal for taxpayers according to Mr Rice) was done but only under the terms of a confidentiality agreement
* The big question must be,was the confidentiality clause in the agreement inserted merely to achieve the ‘good deal’or was it inserted to avoid embarrassment for two years worth of bad advice given by the Law Officers to carry on the fight against AFR’s civil case
* As AFR seem to have no objection to revealing the figure I would put a few bob on the ‘embarrassment’ angle, particularly as the Law Officers have previous experience in hiding the cost of the fishing limits cock up
* Further question.. was the Home Department Board’s decision to continue with the secrecy taken on the latest advice of the same Law Officers?
* Mr Rice must be fuming if he did indeed negotiate a good deal for taxpayers but cannot lay claim to the hero medal because he has to follow orders
Just sayin’
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You are exactly right. The guilty party here, who are responsible for starting this shambles are the Law Officers. Who are the same party who gave advice to all and sundry during the litigation. And gave advice on the settlement terms. Which included a confidentiality provision. Quelle surprise.
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‘vic RAMBLE. I am sure someone as articulate as vic Gamble is capable of standing up for himself, but it does seem strange that you should accuse him of being abusive in his response to your e-mails. You have posted using his name and presumably been requested by the Press to desist.You then post under the name vic Ramble in a sad attempt to circumvent that issue. I would suggest that your behavioural traits reveal some pretty weird flaws in your personality; perhaps you want to be Vic Gamble, in some kind of silly stalking sense.? ‘Tis all a bit sad whatever your motives.
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Mr Harwood Chief Minister, Mr Brown Chief Executive, Mr Trott previous Chief Minister. All have sworn allegiance to a secret society above and beyond anything else. Need we say more!
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Frank Mason, you missed out The Bailiff and the last Bailiff and who knows how many of the crown officers and police.
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If magistrate Finch issued an illegal search warrant surely he must be prosecuted or is he above the Law?
Maybe this is all a cover up to save his behind!
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This is a great shame, I can understand why the board may prefer not to disclose, i.e. the reasons they have given, but they should disclose regardless, I believe they MUST in the interests of being seen to be open and accountable to the public. The truth will out in due course anyway and delaying will only cause public unrest in the interim. I think the Board’s decision is arrogant. I am a Castel resident and I will not vote for Le Tocq again, I find him to be particularly arrogant.
As to those who caused this mess, raiding an Advocates’ office in the middle of the night, well what can you say? This is typical Guernsey Police overkill, common sense simply doesn’t seem to be present. Whoever sanctioned this should be held accountable – there has to be an enquiry leading to sackings.
It’s simply not possible to have ‘faith’ (Mr Le T) in a Government and public service that makes so many cock-ups at the expense of the public purse and then refuses to be come clean about their mistakes.
Week after week as these kind of stories emerge I grow to loathe our Government more and more.
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Have to laugh at Mary Lowe jumping on the transparency bandwagon.
Poor Mary’s obviously forgotten about the time she kept the costs of running the Women’s Refuge secret when asked by HSSD.
Mary tried to claim the reason she wanted to keep the costs secret were for confidentiality issues.
HSSD didn’t want to know the names of the women tax payer’s money was spent on, but where it was being spent. Some people speak with forked tongue….
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So a department we have entrusted to make decisions on our behalf have made a decision we don’t like. For whatever reason it was made……..in my opinion, .so be it.
Not like we can change their decision is it…..and when you sit back and think about it….what purpose would it serve knowing how much the settlement was?
We can’t get it back.
It probably won’t change our opinions.
There are other issues that deserve more discussion surely?
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I spent many years working for the Government in a specialist profession where I believe there was a genuine need to strike a balance between informing the public of details of our activities, and the preservation of national security (not to mention the safety of my colleagues, myself and our families). At times I lived and worked very much in the shadows, but I remain convinced that the deeds performed by my colleagues and I were ultimately for the greater public good, and that public scrutiny of those activities would have proved detrimental to our aim of preserving the stability of community life.
The issue under discussion here merely involves the misjudged granting of a Police search warrant – no more than that. All that the Island authorities need do now is put their collective hand up and say “Yes, in hindsight we admit it was an ill-conceived decision; it has cost £X in legal costs and £X in damages payable to the Plaintiff. These costs will be borne out of existing Home Department budget allocation and the Department will re-adjust its scheduled financial outlay to take into account the expenditure brought about by this unfortunate situation. Lessons have been learned by all those individuals involved in this matter; procedures have been examined and adjusted, and we are committed to ensuring that similar incidents are not repeated”.
Alas, I predict that the political and executive leadership of the Home Department will continue to add ever more sandbags to its entrenched position. This will achieve nothing more than the feeding of the festering sore of public discontent that is now becoming only too apparent. I fear the accelerating breakdown of confidence in our leadership may deteriorate to the point where acts of public disobedience and (God forbid) public disorder become a grim reality. I rather hope I shall be proved wrong.
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Very good post
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UKSF 4 CM
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A very good post, and maybe you should stand in the next round as a deputy and can advocate open government, and carry it through!
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JLT is putting himself up for some strong opposition, perhaps if he was really self seeking and arrogant he would have chosen to do the popular thing. Maybe he really is trying to act in the public interest
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Fossil
Unfortunately this has now become a matter of trust
A lot of posters including me are becoming increasingly distrustful of the STATES (sorry to lump every deputy into this but you are ALL part of the STATES).That is a sad state of affairs less than one year into a new term
I distrust the Law Officers most of all because of their past involvement in the botched fishing dispute.The AFR secret payment is probably peanuts compared to the fishermen payout but it seems to have followed the same successful/deceitful pattern
A slippery slope which will only drag every States member down if allowed to continue
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IWV
You are right it is a matter of trust, First of all the States as a whole or the majority of its Deputies were not involved with any of the negotiations that led to this settlement. It was left quite rightly in my view to the Home Department and its officials.
We as fellow States members have to be able to trust the judgment of those involved, to act in the best interests of the Island and its people. I and many other States members are happy that they did that on the day. Having said that, I along with I suspect with every other States member, are deeply unhappy that any secret deals are being done behind closed doors and unfortunately all of us outside of those involved in this settlement were unaware of the agreement until after it had been agreed.
I made it clear at the PC meeting where this was discussed at great length, with a full and very frank explanation by the Chief of Police and the Minister of the Home dept about what had occurred and why they wanted it kept confidential, that I did not want to see this ever happen again but I would respect what they had done as being in the best interests of everybody concerned on this occasion only.
I also made it abundantly clear that I did not join the States to become part of this kind of clandestine culture, nor would I be as forgiving if I was faced with this situation again. However, I trust their judgment on this and I accept what we were told and the reasons for it.
We agreed at that same meeting that we would have a proper policy in future on these issues, a mistake was clearly made, there is no getting away from it and that mistake had to be rectified to the satisfaction of the injured party.
I am staggered however at some of the rhetoric from some of the posters on this site concerning States members, from jokes for more petrol, so a Minister could set himself alight, to the predictable accusations that we are all corrupt or incompetent or both and we should immediately be removed from office because a handful of people think they have right to demand that we break a confidential agreement.
And I come back to the question of trust, are you all now saying that you have no trust in the deputies that you elected only a few months ago? and now you don’t trust their judgment to safeguard the best interests of the electorate, simply because they will not divulge the details of a confidential agreement. On the Home Dept are some new members who have just joined the States all of them decent people who put their names forward to serve the public, now they are not even to be trusted to make a decision on a complex matter which we would have all prefered hadn’t happened in the first place.
Is it any wonder there is a lack of candidates who want to do this job? If you don’t trust me or the other deputies then get rid of us in 3 years time and you can see if you can find a fresh lot to put up with what we have to endure from people who should respect the faith you have put in all of us,
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Dave Jones
Wow. Extremely well said.
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Dave Jones
Clearly a very emotional post and I’m very glad that you made it.
However, one element of it just does not quite reconcile.
You are clearly livid at what has gone on, and rightly so. But you seem to be criticising the public for also daring to be livid at what’s gone on. Why are we any different?
I have said many times on this blog that being a States Member is a truly thankless task, and what goes with it these days is enough to put many people off, myself included. I agree totally with your comments on that point, but at the same time I have to say that all too often there are some idiotic actions (or non-actions) by States Members, just as we have seen on this matter, which suggests that some of the vitriole is fully deserved. Not all of it, for sure, but some States Members really do know how to put their foot in it with their behaviour.
This incident, the Carole Steere debacle, the Hunter Adam/HSSD farce, the loss of the £2.6m etc have all happened in the past 12-18 months. Appalling lack of good judgement on multiple occasions – it just gets worse.
Trust and respect must be earned rather than given, and it is becoming impossible for the public to do this when seemingly every 2 or 3 months something like this crops up. What’s coming next?
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Wow indeed
Now scroll back up to UKSF’s post No 46.It’s a perfect cut out and keep reminder of how it SHOULD have been done
A bit late in the day but there is still time ( through real walk the walk transparency)to rescue something from this ridiculous situation which appears to have been brought about by copying the UK disease of covering your own back at all costs
Lessons will be learned will they?
I believe they have already been well and truly learned and taken on board following the successful and disgraceful hiding of the fishermen’s dispute millions somewhere in the official States audited accounts.Perhaps the fraud squad should step out of their pop up shop and take a closer look at how that came about
You speak of mistakes. Lagan’s cheque fraud was an unfortunate mistake
The fishermen and AFR confidentiality agreements have all the hallmarks of a well thought out, eyes wide open, act of self preservation … not by the Minister and his Board who arrived very late on the scene,but by those he and they have foolishly chosen to cover for
If the Minister and his deputies cannot grasp how and why this secrecy has brought the whole States into disrepute,and perform a face saving U-turn then we are indeed in big trouble over the next three years
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I believe £250,000 seems to be a favourite sum the States usually agree in secrete settlements.
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Peter
That might be right PER deckhand unlawfully barred from our waters
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I think we can be glad that the SoD doesn’t usually ‘secrete’ settlements, Peter.
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IWV / GM
This feeding frenzy has been whipped up by two issues that are both historic.
The fisherman’s settlement was the result of an out of court settlement over two years ago and it was agreed by both parties that it would be kept confidential. There is nothing unuasual in confidential agreements. The settlement was extremely modest and you can believe that or not as I have no reason to lie but most who have commented on it, have made up their own figure which is what people do.
The second issue is also old news, about an unlawful police raid two years ago which was also settled out of court by negotiation led by the current police chief (who didn’t order the raid), in order to get a quick settlement at a very low level of payment and they achieved both to the chiefs credit, again I don’t care if you believe me or not, that is what has been relayed to all of us by people I happen to trust.
The armchair critics were always going to have a field day with both these issues and fueled daily by the press,Who not knowing the facts just tried to join up the dots.
The other issue with the Lagan fraud happened a few weeks after the election and I don’t believe the then newly elected Treasury Minister or his board can be held to account for that particular screw up.
The Chief officer of Treasury fell on his sword and paid the price on behalf of his staff who clearly made the payment and the mistake, efforts are being made to recover assets and money from those who the police believe were involved.
So you have the perfect storm of all these things coming together in the space of a few months, even though two of them as I say we’re historic events.
The loss of the Education minister was in the last States and that was a matter of political misjudgment and the Minister paid the price.
In this term we have seen the HSSD Minister resign, again because of political misjudgment of a situation and a new Minister was elected and the States moved on.
Unfortunately States members, officials and civil servants are all from the human race and they make mistakes, they never expect any understanding from the armchair critics and blood is always imedietley called for, along with the required heads on spikes and the customary calls for everyone to resign.
I read the press and I read and contribute to these blogs and they are both very strange gauges of public opinion. I have not received a single solitary call from a member of the public on this matter of the settlement to the firm of advocates.
I have had several calls on parking at the Vale church and several yesterday on the collapse of a local plumbing company whose parent firm is in Jersey. I had 3 calls on housing matters and another call asking for help with an HSSD problem but not a single one on this settlement.
As I said in a previous post if you dont trust us, then get rid of us, I would not baulk at having a quiter life, I do what I do in order to serve the people of this island,that has always been my first priority. No goverment is perfect and the States are no exception. These incidents have all been lumoped together because that’s what makes a stronger case for those who want to make it.
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Deputy Jones, you state that the settlements with respect to both AFR and the English fishermen were modest.
Assuming that this is the case, why on earth don’t the relevant departments go public with the sums involved and put these issues to rest?
You must admit that the SoG are creating a rod for their own back with unnecessary secrecy.
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Michael R
These agreements have been entered into by negotiation on both sides and on that basis the settlements paid.
As I said keeping these things confidential is not unusual in cases where there has been legal litigation and legal agreement.
I believe that in both cases they are good news stories in terms of costs, not so good of course that we had to settle in the first place.
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Michael R
I might also add that the whole point of seetling these things outside of the courts, is so that the matter can be dealt with quickly and in confidence.
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Dave Jones
I accept that the fishing settlement arrangement was a while ago. The reason why its still being talked about is because its still regarded as “unfinished business” with taxpayers. It will come up time and time again until the facts are known.
The AFR incident may have taken place 2 years ago but the act of covering it up is very recent.
The correlation between the two incidents is clearly the cock-ups within St James Chambers. It would appear that poor legal advice from there was the root cause in both cases. So who has been made accountable for that poor advice? Are they still in office and therefore still likely to make similar errors? Why the cover-up? Is it unreasonable for us to be asking those questions?
The other two incidents were indeed purely political (although both were also laced with incompetence). At least there was no cover-up. Oh, hold on, yes there was! What about all the staff who were paid off by Derek Neale on behalf of the Education Department and then bound with gagging orders to buy their silence.
Dave – the Guernsey public are sick of cover-ups. Human beings make mistakes. Always have and always will. The sensible way to deal with a mistake is to hold up one’s hand, admit it, and take the blame. Dale Holmes showed the way.
Like many of your colleagues you are entirely missing the point. Its the lack of accountability and the attempts to conceal which are the big issues.
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GM
The facts will never be known that is the whole point of a confidential agreement, whether we like it or not.
As for the law officers they give legal advice, that is what they will tell you, the key word is ” advice” it is then up to the elected deputies whether they accept that advice or not.
The point about the AFR case is that it needed to be settled, both parties agreed it could be settled outside of court, as the main part of the complaint concerned the police officers who executed the raid. The Chief of Police was dispatched to negotiate a settlement for something that did not even happen on his watch.
No matter he took on the job and sought independent legal advice outside the island as to the strength of the police case and was advised that it would not stand muster in the courts, at which point it was dropped and negotiations on a settlement began.
Both sides at hat point once agreement had been reached agreed that it should be kept confidential. I don’t have a problem with any of that and as I said confidential settlements
are not unusual in out of court settlements.
On the other matters concerning education I don’t know enough of the details of thos gagging orders to comment
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Dave Jones
So in effect what you are saying is that the Law Officers can be completely inept, can keep making errors which cost the taxpayer, and yet are completely unaccountable.
Correct?
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Deputy Jones – I agree with the sentiment of this post. I was interested by your comment on the Lagan fraud – has there been any action taken against the staff who made the mistake which the chief officer fell on his sword for?
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GM
I am saying that lawyers advise on the best information available at the time, it is up to us to act on or ignor that advice.
No different to you asking your advocats advice and him or her telling you at the end of the day it is your decision.
Also on the last issue the Law officers were conflicted and stayed out of it, it was the warrant that did not meet current legal protocol which is one of the reasons the whole thing was withdrawn after independent legal advice to that effect.
I might also remind you that it was Patrick Rice who advised that the warrant did not meet modern legal requirments and had that confirmed by a QC and it would not had been issued in a previous life had he been at the helm at he time.
We have always done things our way and over the decades we have not always kept pace with modern protocols.
And we fell foul of those failings on this occasion.
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Dave Jones
But if Joe Public receives duff advice from his lawyers and acts upon that duff advice then he can sue the lawyers for the consequences of acting upon that duff advice. He is also likely to start using a different lawyer.
However, it seems that the States of Guernsey can receive duff advice from St James Chambers on several occasions,, (costing the States and thus the taxpayer an amount which the taxpayer is not allowed to know), and yet there are seemingly no consequences, with the States continuing to draw its legal advice from the same lawyers.
So, who is accountable within St James Chambers?
I have no issue with Patrick Rice’s role in this matter.
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Dave
Re your last paragraph, I’d love the opportunity to get rid of you, but I don’t live in the Vale (and even if I did the choice at the last election was woeful). So we’re stuck with you, and your prepuciary ways…………
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The CO took full responsibility because it happened on his watch, procedures have now been put in place to make it impossible for it to happen again. That is as I understand it.
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Donkey
That is why we need Island Wide voting, which I have supported every time the States has had an opportunity to bring it in.
I can,t do anything about the number of candidates standing
In my parish, I can only offer myself for election and leave it for the people to decide.
That’s democracy.
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GM
You are assuming that the advice given on the fishing licences was “duff” to use your words, our decision on these licences was upheld by the original court but was overturned on appeal to the Privy Council.
Now it is not unusual for appeals to be won but that does not mean that as soon as that happens governments start rushing around suing their legal advisors for allegedly poor advice.
Guernsey States would not be the first government to have legislation overturned on appeal.
You talk as if St James Chambers is giving poor advice at every turn, that is not so. Let’s put this in perspective, the States of Guernsey have lost two cases in about 800 years, one on the fishing licences and one on LVCR; I cannot recall any others and both show changing attitudes towards these Islands over the last few years.
The LVCR was taken to law on principle, that the UK government was singling out the Channel Islands for special treatment over scrapping the VAT concession. So can we please keep this in proportion.
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As usual us taxpayers are ignored as yet another “secret deal” is arranged to cover up for those who obviously need a careful pummeling with a clue hammer!
I say viva la revolution. What we need is for everyone who feels aggrieved by this situation to show up and blockade Custard Castle until something is done about this travesty of justice.
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Another guernsey shambles
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No s**t Sherlock!
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Word on the Street is that the two UK Q.C’s
stayed at The Fermain Valley Hotel for a considerable amount of weeks.
Plus lots of flights backwards and forwards between London and Guernsey.
I guess those amounts were paid for by the Guernsey taxpayer also ?
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Guernsey Fudge
Word on the street just about sums it up.
In the first instance any travel expenses would not be paid as we went along, it would be included in the QC’s final account, along with any other expenses accrued on our behalf.
Also the level of expenses have been published for this legal advice and on the scale of Lawyers fees they seem very modest.
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omg, im with pbfalla on this one!
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Welcome aboard Simon
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We the electorate that put you in to govern demand an answer to the question that was put to you. Failing that we require you all to dissolve this States and call an election.
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Would it not be a more progressive example for AFR to recognise that the police/border agencies were acting in good faith to protect the island from criminal activity, accept an apology and payment for the damaged locks etc and not seek further compensation from the people of Guernsey? Now there’s a dream!
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…@PLP….Paul it is not that I think hairy individuals are the only ones who could claim to be God…think Charles Manson…but I do think Deputy le Tocq is quite a scary character and could frighten children & horses…he may be a mate of yours, but have you ever had him turning up unannounced at your door (as I did) determined to make a point and looking like flames might come out of his eyes at any moment?
Give me the Hovis Witnesses any day…I have quite a good knowledge about whether white or brown bread is the more healthy.
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Vic – Strong personalities with strong outspoken opinions will invariably provoke strong reactions, both positive and negative. I only hope if we ever chance to meet it will be a more congenial event for both of us! :-)
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…Paul, I am sure it would be a harmony, if not of minds,certainly of personality…my meeting with Jon was quite congenial, but I could see he was a man on a mission and my glass of whiskey was in another room fermenting…maybe I just panicked!
It was brave of him to just turn up…for all he knew I could have been a loud swearing rude man. But then as a politician I guess his skin is solid enough to wear that sort of thing…
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Mary Lowe has taken the easy way out to win a popularity contest. Once she knew that enough people would vote against disclosing, she was free to vote for it in the knowledge it wouldn’t be disclosed, and knowing that she could get Brownie points.
If it is disclosed, who in their right mind would settle with a party that is going reveal details?
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This has been an expensive error concerning the ilegal breaking into premises without the property owners consent and removing items.
All those involved should stand trial for this crime of breaking the law.
The people involved all swore under oath to serve the Island of Guernsey to maintain law and order and not to abuse The island of Guernsey laws.
Justice must be seen to be done for the safety of our island laws not being abused
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Not a crime but a tort. The injured party has settled the matter under law so it has been put right and justice has been done.
The people who swore under oath discharged their duties in good faith evidently.
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Spartacus
Are you a member of the Home Department by any chance?
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They didn’t break in.They managed to persuade someone from AFR to turn out at 3AM and let them in so they could retrieve evidence stored on AFR’s premises
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Why could they not have paid a visit during normal working hours like most callers at an Advocates Office.
The following afternoon for instance.
Then the police officers could have had time to check if the search warrant was legal by telephoning a QC in London.
That would have saved us all a huge amount of time and more importantly, a huge amount of money.
Instead with this Gun-Ho early morning raid, like a movie scene from The Sweeney,they have left us with a deeply upset electorate, and a bunch of politicians trying to cover the backs of those who made the big mistake in the first place.
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It’s a cold day in hell when I find myself applauding a post by Dave Jones but here I am doing so. He has been, as often the case, overly verbose so for those with a short attention span he said:
“…but are you all now saying that you have no trust in the deputies that you elected only a few months ago? Is it any wonder there is a lack of candidates who want to do this job? If you don’t trust me or the other deputies then get rid of us in 3 years time and you can see if you can find a fresh lot to put up with what we have to endure from people who should respect the faith you have put in all of us”
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Serves you right Guernsey. If you can’t be bothered why shouldn’t the powers-that-be do their own thing. All this hot air and not one of you will dare miss East Enders to go out and protest.
If you really want to make a difference open your windows, stick your head out and shout ‘I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more.’
And then vote for Gamble :-)
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Blindorange…oh please don’t…I am down in the rural depths of the South of France and can’t even afford the air ticket back if I was voted in….voted in as what..I’d like to be Mr Gollop’s bag carrier providing there are no underhand clandestine matters involved.
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It is the pure snoopiness of the chattering classes for them to want to know the settlement figure; it is quite plainly a private matter between a group of individuals who were wronged and the Home Department – not in the public interest.
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Not in the public interest except as the bill payer!
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St Marcouf
Your contention that this issue was a private matter between a group of individuals ignores the point that Mr Ricem is a public servant with the payment he agreed paid, not by him, but from the public purse. This makes it in the public interest.
Dave Jones says the agreed compensation was “extremely modest”. This claim makes the whole charade of silence as one simply to wind up the taxpayer by refusing to provide the details.
By the way the legal cost figures are incomplete as they do not include the time the Law Officers might have spent on this matter. or did Mr Rice go straight to a private lawyer and miss out the Crown Lawyers?.
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Stephen long time no hear.
Patrick Rice is indeed a senior public servant and was given leave to negotiate on behalf of his officers and the Home Department.
The Law officer’s were conflicted at this stage and therefore the Chief sought independent legal advice outside the island which confirmed his view that the warrant issued did not meet modern legal protocols, or in other words it was very Guernsey old school and would not hold up in court today.
A confidential settlement was then reached on the issue of the police raid on AFR’s offices, although the case is not yet closed, which is another reason why it has been kept confidential.
I am afraid you will have to trust the good judgment of the officials and the Deputies responsible for overseeing this issue and while I agree there has been public money spent, part of the trust you put in all of us, is that it was kept to the bare minimum for a mistake committed by people in our employ and for which we must answer for on behalf of the taxpayer.
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ectopudding…well it is true and the letter was not a religious one, but rather a political criticiism…my own words to le Tocq were something like “The correct forum for dealing with me is to write a response in the Guernsey Press.” So you and I are of one mind here.
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Now I don’t agree with a lot of what goes on in our States but I would agree with Dave Jones that those shouting the loudest against anything and everything the States do should at least have the balls to stand for deputy.
It is very easy to criticise from the outside yet not be prepared to do anything about it.
The situation is not helped by the media stirring things up at every opportunity either.
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How can you trust a Government which appoints an illegitimate candidate as Chief Minister in its first day in office? Would you trust your wife if she was unfaithful on your wedding night?
How can any states member claim to have the trust of the electorate when, without island wide voting, over 90% of the electorate never had the chance to vote for against him or her? Even Dave Jones, probably our most popular deputy, got less than 1% of all the votes which woul havee been cast if ebveryuone available to vote had used all their votes.
There’s also a difference between not trusting the states and not trusting the deputies. As is becoming increasngly obvious, a small number of civil servants seem to have extremely large mandates.
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Dave Jones come across as an able politician who speaks his mind but is surrounded by incompetence. A poster earlier asked the question as we do in Jersey, who is the judiciary accountable to for best, honest and professional practice ? The answer appears to be no one but themselves which is not a sensible or desirable state of affairs.
They are indeed seem to be untouchable and can give poor advice and keep their well publicly funded jobs.
Deputy Jones lets it out of the bag when he wrote.
Sought independent legal advice outside the island which confirmed his view that the warrant issued did not meet modern legal protocols, or in other words it was very Guernsey old school and would not hold up in court today.
So clearly the advice given by Guernseys’ judiciary is old school and will not hold up in a modern court. Why are they not up to speed and why are they employed by Government, they would be out of a job in the private sector after such an expensive and non complicated error.
We have the same in problem in Jersey which extends to the who invites in the Jurats certainly not the public ? This is another story,
Regarding transparency of money spent, the idea of secrecy belongs in the private sector with own money spent and sometimes lost, not in the public sector where Government spend the taxpayers money thus the States should be accountable for every penny spent including expense accounts broken down and published.
Davey
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The costs may have well been covered by an Insurance company. I happen to know that, many years ago, on two seperate occasions , settlements out of court were made involving two ‘wrongful arrests’ (which happened to the same person but some years apart)that were settled by an Insurance company.
Apparently the Chief of Police is obliged to have cover for this kind of eventuality.
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Dave Jones always used to get my vote as a man always in touch with the electorate.
Sadly, that is not now the case, ans the majority view is that we are all being treated like ignorant mushrooms at the moment.
The cover up goes to the heart of our establishment and the fight for the truth will go on, longer than Dave Jones remains in the House.
If the raid was against the law, the simple facts are that the law was broken.
Irrelevant of any costs for damages being revealed, which I now believe is a cleverly arranged smokescreen, the facts are that a Judge and a senior Police Office broke the law and should be held accountable, just a Joe Public would be if he broke the law.
Yes we do need to know Mr Jones and stop shooting yourself in the foot by supporting this cover up of epic proportions, where tape recordings have been “lost” and secret deals relevant to Taxpayers money have gone on behind closes doors.
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That’s a very good point GF, the “missing” recordings seem to have been forgotten (this has happened in various other cases where disputes have arisen, quite remarkable really).
Going by the disclosed costs it appears that it took a QC all of a couple of hours to advise that the case was a dead duck, yet our law officers appear to have been of a different opinion for YEARS.
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We shouldn’t have to wait another 3 years to vote out deputies that aren’t capable of running the island. And to call this a democracy is a joke.
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The voice of Torteval feels it must join the debate – clearly there are secrets of James Bond Villain proportions here and the information must be concealed at all costs – perhaps the computers that were going to be seized belonged to no less than Scaramanga himself and contained the secrets of his underground lair at Pleinmont and plans for Bailiwick domination
- to that end our Police Chief is the hero of the hour in taking Bond style commando tactics to obtain them with our Home department engaged in an elaborate cover up – yes there has been money to pay but we can be assured that Scaramanga will not be installing his laser in the Mirus battery any time soon
- however the sheer determination to obfuscate and avoid giving the full financial picture does suggest there is some payment here which is extremely contentious – forget the trifles paid to the UK counsel – was there perhaps a mega bung to the hapless owner of the computers (let’s call him Scaramanga) to keep him quiet ? – quite what was on those computers that warranted an almost SAS operation at the dead of night ?? – even though they were lodged safely with a reputable firm of Advocates ? – And just why would everyone like this whole thing to simply go away ? There are far more questions than answers and the conspiracy theories will be nurtured by this culture of cover up – methinks certain deputies protesteth too much……..
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Never mind about potato bleedin’ peel pie,we have the makings of a blockbuster here especially if it could be made on the cheap locally with everybody playing themselves
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