‘Dogs should be kept on a lead’
Saturday 2nd March 2013, 5:00PM GMT.
Dog owner Hazel Robins with her Beagle, Eddie, who was attacked by a Boxer dog. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1307361)
A DOG owner has described the horrifying experience of watching her Beagle being mauled by a Boxer twice its size.
Hazel Robins is now calling for dogs to be kept on leads at all times in parks after her five-year-old pet, Eddie, was dragged to the ground by the throat as the Boxer attacked.
During her attempt to get the violent dog off Eddie, the 37-year-old’s hand was bitten and she needed medication to reduce the inflammation.
The police were informed of the incident and continue to investigate the matter.
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My understanding is that the Control of Dogs Ordinance already states that dogs must be kept on leads in public parks.
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PLP – you are correct. There are signs pointing it out but of course, this responsibility is ignored by many.
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Indeed. I walk a lot (including with my dog) and the amount of dog t**d I see lying around leads me to believe that a significant number of owners can’t be bothered to pick up after their dogs. Either that or there’s a handful over-feeding their dogs and giving them laxatives at the same time…..
To be honest in my opinion a lot of this irresponsibility comes from a culture where some animal owners treat their pets like spoiled children…and we all know how spoiled brats behave.
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Dogs are permitted to be off the lead in parks with the exception of playing fields, and they are banned altogether from children’s play areas. They are also allowed off the lead on every beach in the island except that they are banned from just 8 beaches for 5 months of the year.
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St Marcouf, you are wrong!
“Dogs are also banned at all times from:
Children’s play areas
La Vallette Bathing Pools
Specified public sports and playing fields unless the dog is on a lead and under close supervision (Delancey Park, Beau Sejour Park, Cambridge Park, Victoria Avenue, Saumarez Park, L’Ancresse Common, Rovers Playing Field at Port Soif) Certain areas of St Peter Port and St Sampson’s unless the dog is on a lead and under close supervision”
Taken from http://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2781&p=0#page2
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Why am I wrong? Your precis of the law accords with what I said, i.e. that dogs are allowed off the lead in parks except playing field areas (have to be on a lead) and children’s play areas (banned altogether).
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Are you stupid?
It states that all our public parks should have dogs ON THE LEAD!!
“Dogs are also banned at all times from:Delancey Park, Beau Sejour Park, Cambridge Park, Victoria Avenue, Saumarez Park, L’Ancresse Common, Rovers Playing Field at Port Soif) Certain areas of St Peter Port and St Sampson’s unless the dog is on a lead and under close supervision”
So you can see, dogs are supposed to by law be on the lead at all times in all the public parks, including LAncresse common!!
In fact “Offences against section 4 of The Control of Dogs Ordinance, 1992, Failure to control a dog. Failure to clear a dog’s faeces. Prohibition of dog fouling in certain places.”
Can result in a fixed penalty of £100, so all it would take is for someone to take a photo of you with your dog off the lead in any of those places and you can be fined.
http://www.guernseylegalresources.gg/article/98443/Offences-Fixed-Penalties-Guernsey-Law-2009
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States House you are talking absolute nonsense.
The list of parks refers to the sports and playing fields in those parks where the dogs have to be on a lead and the children’s play areas in those parks where dogs are banned altogether. Outside those areas in those parks dogs do not have to be on leads.
If in doubt, go back to the legislation itself (rather than a precis) but make sure you read and interpret it correctly.
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Then why is there a sign at cambridge park and saumarez park saying dogs need to be on the lead?
Also, what sports field is at Lancresse? Or Saumarez park for that matter?
I know for a fact this is the case as iv walked my dogs through Cambridge park myself and they have been attacked by a pair of whippets (off the lead) that used to live next to the park and we made a complaint to the police and they told us that dogs are by law supposed to be on the lead there and the other public parks at all times.
You don’t want to admit it because you are wrong, its in black and white!
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States House.
Try not to lose your temper at the first hurdle.
L’ancresse common doubles up as a golf green.
Saumarez Park has two very large fields in which sporting activities take place.
Don’t insult the intelligence of other before you are correct yourself. What you initially stated was exactly the same as what St Marcouf said in a previous post.
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The sports field at L’ancresse are the two football pitches towards the Vale church.
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Raise the dog tax to a minimum of £1000. Deter those idiots who shouldn’t have dogs. Decrease the dog mess that is out of control these days and generate a good income.
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What a well thought out plan. NOT
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so the less well off are idiots??? Only those with the means to pay £1000 for a dog tax are responsible pet owners? What a load of nonsense.
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Perhaps Sb meant that only those who desperately wanted dogs would be getting them if the tax was £1000 as they’d be the only ones that would bne willing to pay out and would be more likely to look after them properly? Not that I agree with the idea of £1000, but I thought that was what Sb meant. I’m only guessing though.
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There is a sign at cambridge park that says dogs should be on a lead at all times.
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I think it’d disgusting that some dog owners let their dogs off the lead in public when the dog is not friendly. As a dog owner it must be a terrible experience to go through and I am concerned as to why this dog owner(s) have not been prosecuted and the dog has not been put to sleep. I would not be responsible for my actions towards both the owner and dog if my dog were to ever get bitten. It’s a silly and very easily avoidable accident. I think dog owners should be a lot more aware of their dogs, if a dog could do that to a lady and her pet it makes you wonder for the safety of children that are out.
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Sami your comments are idiotic. Why put the dog to sleep because of the actions of its owner.
We have also only heard one side of the story.
Did the Beagle show some sort of aggression? I’m not saying it did, but I reserve judgement on the other dog until I have the full story.
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Sputnick.
The law clearly states dogs must be under the control of their owner at all times in public places, so regardless of whether the beagle was acting up, the boxer dog’s owner was in the wrong, period.
Logic dictates that if the beagle’s owner saw a larger dog, off the lead, and an altercation started, then she could and would do everything possible to restrain – and protect – her pet, which the other owner could not do, hence, the beagle was badly hurt.
The ridiculous cost of vet’s bills alone would make most owners ensure that their pet avoided unfortunate incidents like this, even if they didn’t particularly care about the welfare of their pet, as this lady clearly does.
If you parked your car really poorly and someone drove up and hit it, would you accept it was your fault for lousy parking….?
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The point is, there are many too many irresponsible owners who let their dogs roam around off the lead. This is especially true of people with large dogs, who might be docile at home but can become vicious in an instant around other dogs. I have a small but occasionally snappy dog, who is always on the lead. Frequently, a large dog, off the lead, comes racing toward my dog in an aggressive manner (you can tell if a dog’s posture is merely playful or aggressive), with its hapless owner trying in vain to control the dog with voice commands. I have had to pick my dog up with a large dog growling and snapping at my dog and me, until the owner finally gets the lead on. I have complete sympathy for the beagle owner. Yes, some small dogs do growl or snap when faced with a hostile-looking big dog approaching — it is a self-defense response. The small dog should be on a lead (mine always is) but more importantly, SO SHOULD THE BIG DOG!
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I also think that if a dog is too big for an owner they shouldn’t have it.
I saw a dog on a lead with the owner getting pulled along with such force that the owner fell over. The dog then went sprinting off. This dog was massive (not sure of the breed as I’m not a doggy person).
Even though in this case the animal was on the lead the owner was NOT in control.
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Sb, what about responsible dog owners.. Why do you think they should be penalised? What an idiotic comment…
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PLP you are correct dogs should be on a lead in public parks. My dogs morning walk always finished with me walking them on lead through Cambridge park to home which is very near. Not anymore as early in the mornings there are a group of dog owners who appear to think they own the park. They stand having their morning gossip whilst there dogs appear to entertain themselves. It’s very sad that again there has been a dog attack.. Think that Guernsey appears to have a problem with irresponsible owners
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Dangerous or vicious dogs should be kept on leads in public places if there are people or other animals about.
However, I would say that depriving a dog of exercise and exploration by keeping it on a lead constitutes animal cruelty.
I don’t know if the Animal Welfare Ordinance is in force yet but if or when it is I believe that there will be a positive duty on dog owners to walk their dogs off lead in order to enable them to be “free to express normal behaviour patterns”.
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What if it attacks a child next time! Terminate the dog if it’s trying to kill.
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carry a can of hairspray for such times as that,
it works wonders.
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mmm… another Beagle “attacked”
interesting
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While we are at it, I think some children should be on a lead eh.
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Breathing a sigh of relief it wasn’t a staffy. If it had been the comments on here would have been far more attacking
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It’s absolutely nothing to do with the breed, it’s the LAW.
There wouldn’t have been a problem if the other dog had been on a lead and under the control of it’s owner, as the law stipulates, LMS.
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In defence of LMS @ Scarlett
It has everything to with the breed.
This would be an even more of a non story if it was not a Boxer. Say a Jack Russell. Does not quite get the headlines if you see what i mean. Yes the law is the law but there seems to be a lot of confusion where you can and cannot let dogs roam and clear clarification is required with hefty penalties to press home.As a responsible owner i have no problem with this.
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A Jack Russell wouldn’t be mentioned merely because it couldn’t do as much damage.
A Staffy is a much stronger dog.
I agree with Scarlett though. It shouldn’t matter about the size of the dog. They should ALL be kept on a lead.
If you owned a Jack Russell you wouldn’t be happy if you let it off its’ lead and it ended up in the jaws of a larger/stronger dog. The law also protects people’s pets.
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There are no bad dogs, just bad (stupid) owners, kev.
There is no ‘confusion’, ignorance is not an excuse, but invariably the reason. I’ve lost count of the amount of people I know who’ve lost livestock under horrific circumstances thanks to people who fail to control their dogs, and when it goes to Court, they get away with a small fine and a slap on the wrist.
I have spoken directly to the Police regarding this as it was a problem for a while in my area, and they were happy to explain the Law to me. It’s very, very simple.
A dog owner has responsibility for their dog’s actions, and must therefore have control of their dog at all times, in particular, in a public place, and you cannot let a dog ‘roam’, anywhere.
That’s it.
On the basis that the most obedient and well trained of dogs can have a wolfy moment, as they are, after all, animals, that means the logical and sensible thing to do is keep them on a lead.
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We have dogs and we keep them on the lead unless there is an open area we know no other dogs are about. I get fed up walking along the coast path and some idiots labrador or whatever bounds up to ours and the owner says “oh he’s fine” well ours aren’t, they are restrained on leads and get intimidated by idiot dogs let to sniff round and round or run up and bark in their face. Sometimes its other morons who have no idea how to control there own dogs that can ruin other dogs temperaments! Im sure we would get rather edgy if every time we went outside random morons ran up to us.
Also, I cant believe the idiot who brought up staffys in the first place! You have single handedly managed to turn the comments in to a thread about them…. IDIOT!
If you don’t want people talking about them, don’t mention them! Its like you wanted to see a debate on them. The only thing wrong with this breed is that as with any other dog, they can get sold to unsuitable homes, people who struggle to look after themselves. They don’t know the boundless energy the breed has and are not prepared for the work they need to put in to have a calm loving pet. The problem with this breed is the same as the German Shepherd and rottweiller years ago, they become the fashionable dog for idiots. They also buy from breeders who have no clue about bloodlines and breed within the dogs family creating health problems that the new owners suddenly realise they cant afford to care for, or have behavioural problems.
Leave the breed alone and sort out the idiots who are free to keep bringing poor quality litters in to the world that they cant house in decent homes.
As for a staffy being stronger, don’t fool yourself that ANY other breed of dog is not cable of hurting and causing damage. There has been a lot of instances of labradors over here being very unpredictable. There was one that lived very close to cabridge park that the stupid woman owner would let run right in to our dogs faces with its hackles up, clearly not just coming to say hello and she came up appologised and then told us it had “snapped” at her kids a few times!
There is a man who walks his black giant schnauzer around the castel, and he lets that thing run up in to other dogs faces barking its head off! Absolute night mare when your trying to enjoy a walk and youve had the decency to keep your own dogs on a lead.
If a dogs like that it shouldnt be off a lead at all and should probably be walked with a muzzle on.
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Dogs, calm down.
With regards to your moan about Staffys, no one has actually knocked them as a breed.
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Just like your dog…… boom!!
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Man’s best friend.
What a foolish statement. They are carnivorous killing machines. How many more times do these incidents need to happen.
Google dog attacks on children. Look at the pictures, the disgusting damaging effects they have. I have scars from a dog attack, let me tell you from experience. It’s utterly terrifying when you’re a small child.
Let’s just be grateful that this incident didn’t involve a child. Keep dogs on leads!
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Google car accdients and Children and look at the pictures, the disgusting damaging effects cars have.
More than dogs.
Better ban cars.
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See my reply below.
State where I mentioned dogs should be banned.
I don’t own a car, I don’t even have a licence. Car accidents are not the same as these incidents involving dogs.
These incidents can be stopped (almost completely) with the use of a lead. Which I quite clearly stated in my previous post.
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So how many cars do you know have just took off and mauled a child by it’s self? Answer none. Cars are machines and do not have minds of their own. All road accidents are caused by people.
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Carnivorous killing machines? So are humans. Look at the damage they do, to children, adults, animals…
We’d better start popping you on a lead every time you go out, Oh Dear, just in case your natural instincts kick in.
I do think dogs need to be kept on leads in a lot of places, such as parks, but it would be cruel to keep them on leads all the time. One of my favourite things in the world is to watch my dog racing across the length of the beach.
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The thread is about dogs.
I agree that humans are dangerous animals.
I have said this already. Try reading before you post.
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@ oh dear
I got bit on my backside by a dalmation and my shin by a pekinese as a kid.
Did not stop me having dogs , who are trained , chipped and insured and loved.
Cars are killing machines as well.
Have you seen the damage they can do??
The thing with these sort of stories is they attract the knee jerk reactionaries.
Why go to the Press with the story? Nothing to see , move along.
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It’s all well and good training a dog but it should still be kept on a lead. You never know when their natural instinct might kick in.
I’m not sure why you felt inclined to mention cars. I don’t even have a licence.
I wouldn’t say my comment was knee jerk reaction. It’s the way that I feel generally. An article like this gives me ample oppurtunity to voice my opinion. I’m not exactly going to post my comment on an irrelevant thread am I?
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@ oh Dear
mmm what happens when a human,s natural instincts kick in?
Given the choice i prefer dogs to many humans, when you see the damage humans can do.
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I agree humans are awful. But again, this topic is about DOGS.
Try again.
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Oh Dear, by your logic, at an animal can be unpredictable, which I agree with, how do we explain horses being allowed on the roads amongst the traffic?
Who is going to control a 500 kilo horse? Iv seen on the equestrian facebook page horse riders saying their horses are unpredictable and have a mind of their own, under a comment about someone being seen riding with no safety hat.
Dogs can be controlled on a lead if they want to run, a horse couldnt.
What about cats? Who gets in trouble for not paying their cat tax? Who gets in trouble for not picking up after their cat? Who gets in trouble when their cat kills the neighbours rabbit, guinnea pig, chickens etc? Who gets in trouble for letting their cat roam free in to traffic? In fact if you want a hassle free pet that you dont have to care for, get a cat.
I agree that dogs should be on the lead at all times but I also think the same logic should go to other animals. There are current laws that state dogs shouldnt be off the lead in public parks as has been posted and there are fixed penaltys for dogs who are not under control so why arent people getting fined to drum the message home? A few easy house points for the police would be to stand up cambridge park and write about 50 fines out every day. Probably hundreds on Lancresse common.
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I never said anywhere that I agree with horses being on our roads.
Going off topic again. This thread is about dogs, not horses, cats, mice, cars, cattle or even Jupiter.
The majority of your post appears to be agreeing with me.
I agree that cats can be problematic.
I think that last sentence with regards to cats was massively ignorant. Do you think people send them outside to get food? House cats aren’t that good at hunting. A ginger cat for example could never succeed in hiding in the undergrowth. Also you can fit collars with bells so as to scare off potential prey. As for guinea pigs and chickens, most are kept in locked pens, the cat not being at the advantage of opposable thumbs would find it difficult to work the lock.
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The drunk having had away out that wishes to take the world on, and fight with everyone who try and get him home safely, should be kept on a lead, so they can not wonder in the future.
Where does it all stop.
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This thread isn’t about humans, drinking or cars. It’s about dogs. Dogs are different to human beings. We have already stripped them of their natural freedoms. In order to protect other people/animals I think it’s important to keep them on leads.
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What about cats??
Now they ARE killing machines…
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Yes, at killing rodents! At least they don’t maul babies and toddlers.
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Precisely Walrus.
Again the topic is about DOGS.
Some of these posts are becoming somewhat desperate. Next it will be nuclear missiles.
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I was thinking more about the bird population but I see your point
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Birds are capable of taking off, but if you snooze you lose!
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Dogs should always be on the lead when out with their owners.Dogs should always be banned from beaches – there are parts of beaches never cleaned by the sea – and even if those responsible dog owners “clean up” after their doggie has done its bit would you like to sit on that spot and eat your sandwiches?
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Don – I disagree about dogs always being banned from beaches. The beach is one of the few places you can let a dog properly exercise off the lead. It’s unfair to deny all dogs exercise just because the minority of dog owners don’t clean up.
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Why not have one “pro-doggy” beach, and make it law to have them on leads everywhere else (except their own homes/gardens obviously).
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Despite the ‘off topic’ comments going on, there have been some good points made and also some ignorant ones.
I have large breed dogs, always on lead, always cleaned up after, chipped, wormed and licenced. We walk them twice a day which allows them plenty of exercise and they are very well looked after.
I get extremely frustrated when walking around Cambridge Park, for example, which has by the way has at least 5 big signs up restricting dogs to lead at all times! there are more dogs off lead in that park than there are on. More often than not these ‘off lead’ dogs are allowed to run up to our dogs causing all sorts of hassle to ours (who are not particularly good with other dogs) and their owners are the other side of the park or nowhere to be seen. I noted from the comments someone having problems with two wippet type dogs up there that hassle others, these belong to an old lady who seems to think herslef above the law and lets the two of them loose as she strolls along – they are completely out of her site and doing their business in the oposite playing field to her most days!
If I can walk two large dogs on lead and provide them plenty of exercise, why does an owner with a small breed dog expect to have the run of the park when they too could have ample exercise on lead if they just walked with their dog instead of standing still and letting it run around unsupervised. I once saw someone park at the Cambridge playing field, open their car door and let the dog run off in the rain whilst they sat in their warm car waiting for it to return!!
The law provides for fines for people having their dogs off lead in the wrong places – WHY AREN’T THESE BEING ENFORCED? If the Police actually started to enforce the fines and people got fined the £1,000 then they would abide the law and the problem would go away. PUT YOUR DOGS ON LEAD OR TAKE THEM TO WHERE THEY ARE PERMITTED TO RUN FREE PEOPLE!
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What do you expect the police to do? Station an officer at every single public dog walking place in the island plus all beaches for 15 hours every day? People need to report offenders, particularly the repeat offenders. The old woman at Cambridge Park in your example is a perfect candidate for being apprehended and fined. BTW the fine is only £100.
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Walrus, BTW I actually bothered to call the police today and ask them where exactly dogs aren’t allowed off the lead (as a responsible dog owner id rather listen to those who know the law the some half wits who want to interpret what is written clearly however they see fit) and they told me that any area in a public park your dog must be on the lead and the fine can be up to a maximum of £1000.
Also, not difficult to get proof now everyone has a camera on their phone is it?
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@ Dogs
No need to lower the tone of the thread by calling a responsible owner like LMS an idiot.
Think you need to keep your emotions in check.
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Gotta hand it to the writers at the Press.
They know EXACTLY what kind of stories push peoples’ buttons!
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Keep dogs on lead signs that are not backed up by the law are unenforceable and rely on the goodwill or conscience of dogs owners to comply with them.
No doubt that’s why the police don’t take any action against dog owners whose dogs are lawfully off the lead in public parks outside of children’s play areas and sports playing fields, Cambridge Park being a commonly cited example.
Here is the legislation: http://www.guernseylegalresources.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=67131&p=0
I’d be interested to know how people (mis)interpret it to read that there is a blanket requirement for dogs to be on leads in public parks or a blanket ban on dogs being off leads in public parks.
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Well for my own piece of mind I have spoken to the police myself about this and if anyone else cares to do so they will find out that it is the ENTIRE area of all the public parks and other places mentioned on the control of dogs ordinance that you MUST have your dog on a lead.
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Good for you.
Glad thats all cleared up now.
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Well hopefully its cleared up for St Marcouf and Oh Dear to both listen to people who can understand written legislation and its cleared up for them that dogs have to be on a lead by law on all our public parks and anywhere in town or the bridge etc.
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I know what the law is States House.
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The police cannot make up or extend the law, and they would not be my first port of call for legal advice anyway.
The ordinance couldn’t be clearer: there is no blanket requirement for dogs to be on leads in public parks. Read it for yourself.
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St Marcouf you are unbelievably stubborn/stupid. The police dont make the laws but they have to know them!
I called them yesterday to specifically ask to talk to someone who knows about the control of dogs ordinance and I specifically asked them if it is just these “sports playing fields” or the entire parks and they confirmed that it is the entire parks that you need a dog on the lead and also the whole of Lancresse and vale commons! The maximum fine is £1000 not £100
I know someone who got fined at 6am a while ago up cambridge park for not having their dog on the lead. The police were up there waiting after complaints. They told the person I know exactly what I have just told you about all the parks and the lancresse and vale commons.
Ask yourself and educate yourself becaue no doubt you wont believe me again.
Also, had this back from a message to Guernsey Police on facebook.
“Good Morning Steve,
Sorry for the delay in responding to your message.
Dogs are required by law to be kept on a lead in the following places Delancey Park, Beau Sejour Park, Cambridge Park, Victoria
Avenue, Saumarez Park, L’Ancresse Common, Rovers Playing Field at Port Soif) Certain areas of St Peter Port and St Sampson’s
Dogs are also banned at all times from:
Children’s play areas
La Vallette Bathing Pools
Unfortunately we do not have a defined map of areas a dog needs to be kept on a lead.
In St. Peter Port, these areas are:
High Street
Church Square
Commercial Arcade
Market Hill
Market Street
Mill Street
Mansell Street
Contrée Mansell
Mansell Court
Le Bordage
Fountain Street
Smith Street
Le Pollet
North Pier Steps
The venelles from High Street to the Quay
Quay Street
Cow Lane
La Vallette (Bathing Pools)
In St Sampson as follows
The Bridge
New Road
Kind regards
Guernsey Police”
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Dogs is it really necessary to insult people?
You do not carry yourself well on this forum. If you believe someone to be wrong, tell them, but don’t resort to insulting their intelligence.
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Iv tried telling certain people what the law is to benefit all dog walkers, so they know rather than law abiding responsible dog owners naively taking some “know it alls” word. I even went to the trouble of getting written confirmation from the police but they still wont listen…
What inteligence? what proof did they get from the police to counter what they have told me? thats right, they havent. they dont want to be told they are wrong. Like educating pork…
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I am astonished that you take what the police say at face value when you could see for yourself from reading the ordinance that they have got it wrong. If dogs had to be on leads in all areas of public parks then the ordinance would say so – it doesn’t! The ordinance isn’t even ambiguous on the point.
If you were arrested and charged by the police for a criminal offence, would you just accept their version of the law and plead guilty or would you take legal advice first? Have you asked the police to point to the relevant provisions of the ordinance which purportedly state that dogs have to be on leads in all areas of public parks?
Even the places of recreation ordinance does not require dogs to be on leads in the parks – it does not even mention dogs.
It is a very serious matter if the police have been issuing fixed penalties on a false basis to people who have been lawfully walking their dogs off the lead.
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Yes, the question I asked was very specific. Like ive said numerous times, ask yourself for your own peace of mind. Have you asked?
Some time soon its going to sink in…
It says that dogs are banned from certian areas of parks but are allowed on others, if they are on a lead. The ordinance may look to you that it only specifies sports playing fields but I think youll find they have generalised the whole areas of the parks as sports playing fields. I mean “sports playing field” is hardly a specific term, its a general term obviously meaning an open area in a public park where people play. How could you walk your dog off the lead outside the chalk line of a football pitch without it being uncontrolled and likely to stray over that magical chalk line? Any dog off the lead is uncontrolled. Your dog might just want to say hello and be fantastic with kids and dogs but it still has the ability to run up to say hello and irritate me and my dogs (we dont know its friendly) and make me have to pull my dogs in while I wait for you to get your act together and control your dog.
I also dont believe its cruel to keep a dog on a lead. Id rather have the right to walk my dog through a park on a lead than have that taken away by mindless ignorant unresponsible dog owners who let there dogs run loose to annoy everyone.
We let our dogs off the lead for a run about on the beach where they are actually allowed and then only if other dogs arent around.
Also, when I run with my dog, she is on a lead and at 10 years old I could almost guarantee she is probably the fittest 10 year old dog on the island and thats being on a lead. If people cant give their dogs the required excercise without having to let them run around uncontrolled in parks then they cant give that dog the care it needs, or rather cant be bothered to put that effort in.
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Dogs, I think you are being insulting now just for the sake of it. It’s unnecessary, prove your point in an intelligent manner, don’t resort to petty insults. It ruins any credibility might have.
I know these debates can make people angry but you need to keep a clear head and prove your point in a fair manner. Calling someone stupid is easy, proving them wrong takes skill.
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For gods sake… How many more times? I have proved my point. I have given you a written response from the police and you are still questioning it.
Also, it didnt take much skill to ask the police to confirm what I and most other responsible dog owners already knew…
Again, ask them yourself.
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Dogs, I wasn’t disuputing what you were saying, I know the law.
All I was trying to say is that your insults are unnecessary.
I disagree with most of what St Marcouf has said. But I still don’t think your insults are needed.
Be polite and respect the views of others. If you can prove them wrong, then do so.
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Indeed, the legislation isn’t difficult to understand and nowhere does it say dogs are banned from all public parks.
Even though the police are expected to enforce the law you can’t expect them to know every piece of legislation inside out and the answer “every public park” at least means the person receiving the advice won’t unwittingly break the law because the police person forgot to mention one of the listed parks.
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No, nowhere does it say they are banned from parks, just that the have to be on a lead.
People have had fixed penalty fines over the last year because of this law.
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Yes, indeed – my mistake – I meant on a lead rather than banned!
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I firmly believe dogs should be kept on leads at all times and in all public places including beaches and a law put in place that would make those ignoring said law to be liable to a fine of say £100. And before I get accused of being anti dogs I say this because I do actually own a dog and my dog has fallen victim to irresponsible dog owners who allow their dogs to run free and out of control. I have lost count of the times I have been walking my dog on a lead on L’eree beach only to see an out of control dog racing towards me and my dog and the mayhem that followed as the dog ran around us barking and in some cases snapping at our heels while the dogs owner tried to call his dog away to no avail. Dogs can be adequately exercised on a lead in public and allowed to run free in the privacy of their own home and garden. For those owners who naively believe that their dog would never attack another dog do not truly understand a dogs nature, it acts on instinct not a human code of conduct and because we should have the common sense to acknowledge that fact we should also possess the common sense to keep our dogs under the control of a lead. I have seen some truly irresponsible dog owners on L’eree beach from a gentleman who allows his dogs to run free while he has his mobile glued to his ear, a woman in a blue van who let her dog free while she used the toilets and the dog did the same, although as she was not there to witness it naturally did not pick it up, to the truly cruel and lazy sight of a person in a swish grey Land Rover let his three large brown dogs out of the car, get back in his car then race away at full speed while the dogs chased the car to try and catch up, that was truly appauling treatment for such trusting animals but I suppose that passes as exercise. Once again it is high time cruelty laws were introduced in Guernsey to stop such cruelty occurring but that is a different debate.
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veridique
Have also seen swish grey Land Rover unload dogs and drive off on Havelet Bay. Talk about having a sense of entitlement!
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Biggest issue is the attitude of some dog owners.
Why do they insist that the dog is fully trained and leave it off the lead near roads.
It drives me nuts.
At the weekend I had to stop four times at Lancrese as a pack of dogs ran close to car.
The ownsers glared at me when I asked them about keeping the dogs on a lead, as I would hate to hit a dog.
I wouldnt mind hitting them with the car but not the dog.
Most dog owners have great respect but others should realise its an animal.
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Should have taken a photo and warned them if they didn’t put them on a lead you’d report them and they could get a £1000 fine. LAncresse, dogs need to be on a lead.
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Maybe the press should put another follow up article in to clear it up for those who cant understand it?
Get the police to make a statement of where dogs cant be off the lead.
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All dogs should be kept on lead in public places.The whole island is public except your own garden.Let your dog toilet in your garden then take him for walk on lead.If your dog wants to run then run with him on lead.
People who want to own a dog should firstly consider their environment surrounds they live in.
a cat lover
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Do you own a cat? keep your cat inside? Or make sure it doesnt get out of your garden if you let it out? If you do, then fair play but if not what youve just said is hypocritical.
Most cat owners dont and they certainly arent thinking of their neighbours or the enviroment. Cats going to toilet in other peoples gardens or any loose gravel, sand, soil etc. ripping open binbags, killing pets etc. letting them run in front of traffic causing accidents. Breeding and creating feral colonies of unhealthy cats that causes a need to create charities to look after others problems, etc, etc…
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Most cats bury their faecal matter.
I’ve never known a cat killing other people’s pets, as I mentioned above they don’t even have opposable thumbs. Rabbits, guinea pigs etc tend to be locked in pens. A cat couldn’t physically open it.
The majority of cat related deaths are rodents (which breed very rapidly and can prove to be a menace if not contained).
How many traffic accidents have been caused by cats? If you need to swerve to avoid a cat, you’re probably going to fast. They are highly intelligent and wouldn’t jump straight in front of a moving car if they thought they could get across the road.
Feral colonies? That’s a people problem. The cats are doing what comes naturally. If someone leaves their pet outside long enough that it goes feral then, well that’s just wrong.
How many of these feral colonies do we have in Guernsey?
Cats do occasionally kill birds, but if you read my post above you can fit a colour with bells on. Most domestic cats aren’t good at hunting. Watch wildlife documentaries on big cats and see how long it takes to train them to catch their food.
Dogs and cats are not in the same league when it comes to environmental impact.
The majority of the problems with both animals stems from the owner.
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You’ve never known a cat killing peoples pets? Well thats only your experience, plenty others will tell you it happens and has happened plenty! Just because you haven’t seen or heard, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen…
Cats bury their mess? Yes in kids sand pits, peoples flower beds, builders sand and you are ten times more likely to get the worm that can destroy your eye site from cats than dogs… Also, not just in sand pits. Go on whynotguernsey forum and look at the pictures someone has put on there of all their neighbours cats crap in their garden http://www.whynotguernsey.com/forum/index.php/topic/4186-cats-crap/page__p__58842__hl__cats__fromsearch__1#entry58842
Traffic accidents caused by cats? Not many but then most people cant swerve as the is traffic to hit and yes they do run out in front of vehicles! Iv seen it happen and have had it happen to myself a couple of times, once on a motor bike. They go to cross, you stop to let them, they stop so you carry on then they just run in front of you. They are cats, they haven’t been taught the green cross code. I once saw traffic trying to come from town stopped by a cat backflipping in the road after it had been run over. This is outside the entrance to the rocquettes and the church in the gravees. I was going in to town in my truck, I stopped, got out, picked the cat up and went to go in to the church to use their phone and they shut the door on me! So I took it up the animal shelter. Stupid letting cats out any where near a road, its just inevitable.
Feral colonies is a people problem and that is because like I said, people let them out and roam. Imagine if you just let your dog out for the night. Pretty irresponsible. A female house cat will have a litter outside, unbeknown to the owner and that is the start of your feral colony. Cat goes missing for a while then comes home. Happens all the time. People are stupid enough to think that their cat just goes out for a gentle stroll, using all the crossings and pavements and having safe sex and it only eats what they put in a bowl for it and only attacks or plays with toys bought for it.
Dogs and cats are not in the same league for environmental impact? There are a lot more cats than dogs on this island and only a tiny proportion of those cats will be kept indoors. Thousands of cats out all day every day crapping in areas where kids put there hands, ripping open bin bags and killing wildlife.
Wise up. You have “opinions” but don’t seem to have much experience in anything to base them on.
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Well said Islander.
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Once again Dogs an angry post. Nice subtle insult at the end. Don’t worry I won’t get stressed :-)
Yes cats get run over but that is a different kettle of fish to CAUSING road accidents.
Cover up the sand pit when not in use. Cat poo is a problem but it’s not left on paths, pavements, beaches, sites of historic significance and parks.
I agree, it is irresponsible to let them roam all night. The Mother cat is more than likely going to have her litter near the family home (cats are territorial). There is a very simple solution to this. Sterilize them as they should all be.
Most cats do pretty much just eat what is put in the bowl. Catching rodents etc is their way of playing.
Seagulls probably do more damage to bin bags than cats. As do hedghogs, rats, mice and shrews.
Cats don’t run along the shore line towards flocks of wading birds that play an important part in our ecostystem. Dogs may not kill them but they push them out of their natural habitat.
I agree that cats have problems, I have stated this before. But to think that dogs are so perfect as many of you dog lovers believe is highly delusional. A cat may blind a child by defecating. But it wouldn’t tear a childs face apart.
The dog that attacked me had the usual careless owners I still see regularly. No lead, when it came up to me when I was 8 years old I was told it was harmless. I reached out to stroke it and it put me in hospital. I’m not asking for an outright ban, I’m not knocking them anywhere near as much as you knock cats. There was also another incident just last year, I was holding my young nephew in my arms when a dog came bounding across Vazon bay (when they were supposed to be banned). The owner stood by wall calling in a gentle and frankly pathetic tone. No wonder the dog didn’t listen. Anyhow the dog smashed straight into my legs and very nearly knocked me over. When I shouted at the owner they got defensive.
I just wish owners would take more care of their pets. All that’s needed is a lead. It’s not rocket science and frankly dogs despite our run ins, I think you agree with me on that one.
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Yes, iv said all along in here that dogs should be kept on the lead. Id rather be able to walk in all these nice areas with my dog on a lead than be banned alltogether because of a minority. Some people will not listen and abide to laws and common decency.
A few people in the kennel club have had an idea that dogs that do not like other dogs or just arent very sociable in general should have a yellow ribbon on their lead. Even this would be no good. A couple of weekends ago we walked our dogs from Grandes Rocques to Port Grat and back. As we walked past the port soif kiosk and to the top of Portnifer beach this stupid fat labrador with its hackles up came running up behind us with a young couple walking about 50 meters behind it. I shouted at the dog to shoo more to give the owners the hint but we had to put up with this until up to the main road at Pecqueries. I dont even think they had a lead with it! This couple certainly wouldnt have seen any ribbon the distance they were away and to be quite frank I dont think it would have crossed their mind that our dogs COULD have been vicious and ripped chunks out of their dog. She wasnt amused but also isnt vicious and luckily we had her on the lead otherwise she could have got aggrivated to the point their dog got told off by her. If she had it probably would have taught it more than the owners had. Sometimes I wonder if these idiots do it purely to aggravate.
Regarding cats, your just arguing for the sake of arguing now. I know friends who have found litters of kittens stuffed in old mattresses dumped in hedges. The mother will have them wherever is quietest. I know people that work at GSPCA that have had to go collect litters of kittens from random places no where near a house. Also, “cover up the sand pit”? Why should other people have to cover anything up in their own garden because someone has let their cat in it? Did you not look at that link? They dont always bury their crap.
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I did look at that link, I’ve never seen cats excreting straight onto the ground like that. I won’t deny that is definitely cat excrement though. As for litters of kittens found in places like that, that’s appalling but it’s still a people problem. The owners shouldn’t allow the cat to get pregnant in the first place. How can people not notice that their cat is pregnant? That’s the worst part of what you claim. The owners clearly don’t care.
Perhaps keeping all the cats on the island well regulated and of a certain gender apart from designated breeders.
The thread at the end of the day is dog and I agree with the majority of what you wrote.
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I’m interested to understand what people commenting on this article think is sufficient exercise for a medium to large dog?
Although I don’t have a dog myself, my parents labrador for example gets two long walks a day, probably about 8-10 miles in total and is off the lead for most of that (through woodland and arable farm land). Yes, they sometimes meet other dogs on the way but because they’re generally all off their leads they interact naturally and don’t cause any problems.
Personally I find it quite upsetting seeing an overweight individual plodding along with their overweight dog on the lead plodding alongside them.
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10 mins in total a day?
Thats no way near enough. 30 mins minimum id say which you’d get about a mile in. An hour is better, if its just walking. If you are going to run with your dog as a lot do and I do myself then its really all the same principles as is with people. Eat too much and do too little and you get fat and unfit so you gradually up the intensity and distance as the weeks go on. A dog will get fit much faster than a human but as with humans don’t expect the dog to do too much to start with unless you want to hurt it.
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Dogs, I won’t be so harsh as to call you stupid (heavy sarcasm)but Mark wrote 8-10 miles, not minutes. Read before you rant.
For my two-penn’orth, I think it’s reasonable that dogs should be kept on leads in the places mentioned in the police reply above but, rather than a blanket requirement for all dogs to be on a lead in all public places, I’d like to see more of the responsible dog owners, of which there are many, leading by example and reporting those who transgress the laws on leads and dog fouling.
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Haha! Sorry! Thought I read minutes not miles!
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It is most concerning from an animal welfare point of view that so many people as a matter of course do not walk their dogs off the lead and think it is acceptable. Not only is bad for their physical and mental health in the long term, it is cruel and oppressive.
If people didn’t let their children off a lead in public and didn’t allow them the freedom to run around, explore and use all of their senses, there would be a public outcry. Dogs have even more of a need to do this than children.
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I completely agree. The biggest problem is Guernsey is a small place, quite densely populated and there aren’t a lot of spaces where you can safely let a dog roam. Which is one reason why I don’t think I will ever get a dog whilst living here.
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Children won’t maul each other.
Dogs have less rights than people. If they’re a danger, keep them on a lead. It also means that the owner can see exactly what their pet is up to. The amount of dog mess in our parks and on our pavements is disgusting.
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Children wont maul each other?
Never heard of bullying?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8233822.stm
This is just one story of how Guernsey children can be
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/latest/2011/07/27/les-genats-children-accused-of-duck-cruelty/
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Dogs
Would you not be wise to put children on another forum?
This is dogs on a lead.
Yes childrens behaviour is a very interesting topic.
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Dogs, your posts are becoming increasingly desperate. Why are you in such denial that dogs do damage to each other and to humans?
If you read through this you’ll see I’ve mentioned at least 5/6 times that this thread is about dogs.
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I agree to a point St Marcouf – dogs require exercise, it’s good for them physically and also helps behaviour.
However – people who are concerned about a dogs “right” to exercise should do their research. Different breeds have different requirements in terms of exercise / stimulation and prospective owners should think about that before taking ownership of an animal – and by that I mean more than thinking “that’s a nice looking dog” or “that mutt will make me look tough.” It would be plain stupid to live in a one bedroom flat and own a doberman.
As Mark has said, Guernsey is a small island with limited space. If you don’t have the space to provide adequate exercise for an animal legally, the answer is simple – don’t have one. It is not a human right to own a pet.
…and I agree with Oh Dear. I’m a parent and dog owner and there is no comparison – children have more rights than dogs.
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St Marcof
I completely agree, i hate seeing owners with dogs choking them half to death because they refuse to take them off the lead and play with other dogs or roam freely.
I purposefully go to the beaches, cliff paths etc so my dog can have as much free roaming time as possible and he is the happiest dog i know! (clearly i’m bias).
ive never have a single incident with my dog or another dog being unfriendly towards eachother.
there’s plenty of places in Guernsey where dogs are safe to roam off the lead just keep away from parks where its illegal, unfortunately wherever you are you still have to put up with stuck-up owners that scream in fear when a dog wants to skip up to theirs and have a sniff – anyone would think its wasn’t instinctive!
if your too afraid to let your dog off the lead then get a hamster or a budgie, an animal that doesn’t need to exercise properly and roam freely!
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Some dogs arent good with others which is why they will be on a lead. Some dogs are nervous and the sight of another bearing down on them imposingly can make the dog on the lead wary. Its not rocket science to realise that. Also some older dogs are kept on a lead to keep them coming in direct contact with others that may be carrying a virus like kennel cough.
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and by not good doesn’t just mean they are aggressive. They may just be too physical when playing, like barging in and jumping over or just being horny and trying to hump and other dogs will take offence to this and it can start a fight. Don’t criticise responsible dog owners for trying to have a peaceful enjoyable walk.
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What about children that are walking a long the cliff paths?
What happens if the dog sprints blindly round a bend and knocks the child over? The result is potentially deadly.
I agree that dogs need exercise but you need to show courtesy to those that don’t own dogs. You need to respect the fact that not all dogs are safe to be around.
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ilovemydog wrote “I completely agree, i hate seeing owners with dogs choking them half to death because they refuse to take them off the lead and play with other dogs or roam freely”.
If the owner is choking the dog, they are at fault for not training their dog properly. It is perfectly possible to teach ANY dog to walk at heel properly and not pull on the lead. I don’t currently have a dog but I’ve had 4 dogs over the years, all of which were taught, by me, to walk on the lead at heel, and no, they weren’t all pups when I got them. Three were adult “rescue” cases with no training or manners at all.
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Dogs
can you keep to the dog on lead topic please.
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…or as someone slightly less diplomatic might say,
‘shut up and stop blowing this so out of proportion and get a life, dogs, you’re beginning to sound like an obsessive, ranting nut job’.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. ALL pets are the owners’ responsibility. Zero tolerance on anti social behaviour. Pet owners should have respect for others, for the community and the island.
It would be worth the investment if there was an enforcement clampdown on all roaming animals and the problems they cause. They should all be tagged and have DNA records paid for by owners. Take it seriously and start fining people and the problems will stop. Can you get ASBOs for animals? Maybe they should introduce them.
People should not have to take measures to prevent antisocial behaviour against them such as buying special products for their gardens and covering up sand pits, this is the responsibility of the pet owner to control their pets and they should be held accountable for the actions of pets.
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With you 100% Sparty!
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I wonder if G M has a pet Spartacus
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If GM has a “pet Spartacus” he is a bad owner as he clearly doesn’t keep her on a leash!! ;-)
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islander
Yes he has Muttley.
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Well said Spartacus.
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Muzzle all dogs in public
All dogs should also be tagged for id purposes
Increased fines for offenders
Simples
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Certainly a case to muzzle some dogs PB, not sure about all though, but it would probably have to be an all or nothing measure. Agree about tagging – it should also be compulsory to have all dogs microchipped. No disagreement from me on the increased fine idea either.
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A little off topic to start with but please bear with me…. will the dog owner in the Ville au Roi area who lets their dog out at c. 11pm to bark for 30-45 minutes each and every night please show courtesy to others and either i) excercise it in a appropriate way during the day (on a lead when required and in a responsbile manner) or ii) actually bring it back inside! The barking might be a giveaway that it doesn’t want to be outside!
To get back on topic, thoughts:
i) increase the cost of a dog licence
ii) inforce fines, via self policing if necessary
iii) chipping, DNA testing in severe repeat cases / areas (using income generated under point i)
iv) assume responsibility for the actions of your animal. You and you alone are responsible for clearing up after it and ensuring that it behaves in a responsible manner. If you are unable to give it the excercise it requires or irradicate certain behavour then you must ask questions or yourself and or seek appropriate assistance.
v) Dog owners please realise that not everyone on this Island shares your particulary affinity with fido – Some of us want to enjoy our leisure time free from being hassled, having our children hassled, hearing over and over “he’s ok, he won’t hurt you” or stepping in the various piles fido leaves behind. That said everyone has the same right to enjoy our free space, tollerence from all is key.
That is all.
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I dont think the tax needs to be raised as what service are we as dog owners actually paying for? Its just for dog poo bins and thats it, if you look here http://castelparish.com/dog-tax/4559096751
The thousands of dogs in the island will more than cover to have a few bins emptied. Which there are not enough of.
What needs to heppen is that rather than just moaning about it, report people for not having their dog on the lead, or not picking up after their dog. Take a photo but the problem is the traditional Guernsey apathy regarding anything. We can all moan on here or in the pub or at home but when push comes to shove, not many have got the balls to put their money where their mouth is and actually do anything about it. If the laws were enforced then people wouldnt do it but we need to report people for breaking the law otherwise how can the police enforce it?
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I saw someone earlier today walking their dog through Saumerez Park without a lead. I would photograph the culprit and send it to the police if it wasn’t for a certain thing.
The girl was almost certainly about 13/14 years old. She was with a couple of friends. If I took a photo of three young girls I’d probably end up in more trouble than them.
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Haha! Thats a good point!
I dont know why they dont get traffic wardens to walk through the parks seeing as they can issue fines and love doing it.
I asked one once if they get any extra money, points whatever for the amount of fines they give out “nope”, they just like doing it.
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The question is would a photo stand up in court as evidence? Surely it would have to (a) clearly show the persons face for identification; (b) show the dog off the lead with some distinguishing markings so it could be clearly identified as belonging to the individual and (c) show clearly the location? Easier said than done – I can’t see many people responding well to someone with a camera saying “stand still please so I can get a photo to take to the police.”
Reporting people too – it would be their word against yours. How many cases would get to court I wonder?
To be honest the only sure way of getting convictions is to be caught red handed by a police officer or special constable. That’s the problem with the ordinance – it’s bloney difficult to enforce without draining law enforcement resources, and don’t people know it.
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Instead of complaining vaguely and anonymously on here to no effect whatsoever, call the Police and report it, Stunned, they know the law and it’s their job to come and sort out stuff like persistent noise nuisance…..
just as they know the law regarding other things which appear epically important to certain people on here such as, ‘where can/can’t I walk my dog off a lead’?, something else which others are free to report to the Police as and when they witness it, which would be a cheap and simple way of keeping the law enforced.
The point in your case and the case of other’s ranting on here about dogs off leads is that they don’t bother reporting offenders as they can’t be *rsed and don’t want all the hassle. If they really wanted to sort the problem, they would.
I don’t possess a law degree, but seriously, some of the comments on here beggar belief in their lack of common sense.
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Muzzle all dogs in public…you got it in one pb falla…will yours be arriving soon?
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Are you the real Vic Gamble from Trinity Square?
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///Salty….are you the real Salty from the Saltpans?
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wuff wuff
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@ Dogs
It’s no good saying “I think youll find they have generalised the whole areas of the parks as sports playing fields. I mean “sports playing field” is hardly a specific term, its a general term obviously meaning an open area in a public park where people play”.
A “sports playing field” is a specific term and legislation is not interpreted by bending and distorting the meaning of words and phrases beyond their intended or ordinary meaning or beyond the bounds of common sense.
It is asinine to suggest that the whole area of the public parks listed in the ordinance constitute sports playing fields – not only are they clearly not playing fields (how can e.g. the grassland around the duck pond in Saumarez Park, or the grassland amongst the gorse and bracken on the Vale commons be playing fields?) but the ordinance would not have gone to the effort of singling out and specifying the relevant sports playing fields in the relevant parks and other sports playing fields outside parks where dogs have to be on leads if the intention was that dogs had to be on leads in the entire park.
I have not spoken to the police because I am satisfied that they (or may be it’s just you) are wrong and they cannot uphold law that does not exist in the first place.
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Iv gone to the bother of asking and have been given a deffinitive answer by the people we employ to uphold this law. Until you bother to do the same to prove otherwise your “opinion” is absolutely worthless and I wouldn’t recommend any responsible dog owner listen to the “opinion” of someone who totally disregards the advice of the police.
I had a reply from someone at the police station called Leo Thomas, ask him.
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I can only repeat that I can see what the ordinance says in unambiguous terms, thank you, and the police are not the ultimate authority on the law.
Anyway, your policeman has not given a definitive answer because he has not pointed you to the actual provision of the ordinance which apparently states that dogs have to be on leads outside of playing fields and children’s play areas in the specified parks/commons – because he cannot!
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@ PLP and Oh Dear
Arguably the human right to a family and private life does extend to pet ownership, just look at cases in England under its Human Rights Act. Regardless, once a pet owner, inescapable duties of animal care immediately apply.
Under the animal welfare ordinance, these duties seemingly do/will grant dogs and other animals greater explicit rights than children. It says this:
“The owner or keeper of an animal owes a duty of care to that animal to take such care as, in all the circumstances, is reasonable to see that the animal is free –
(a) from thirst, hunger and malnutrition,
(b) from discomfort,
(c) from pain, injury and disease,
(d) from fear and distress, and
(e) to express normal behaviour patterns.
(2) The duty of care under subsection (1) includes providing the animal with –
(a) a supply of fresh drinking water and food of sufficient quantity and quality to keep the animal in good health,
(b) where appropriate, suitable shelter which is sufficient to maintain the animal in good health and such shelter must include –
(i) access from the shelter to water and food,
(ii) sufficient space for the animal to lie down or otherwise rest in comfort, and
(iii) where appropriate, adequate light, heat and ventilation,
(c) protection from injury, disease or unnecessary suffering including, where appropriate, providing timely and appropriate medical diagnosis and treatment where necessary by a recognised veterinary surgeon, and
(d) the opportunity to express normal behaviour patterns and living conditions which are conducive to it maintaining those normal behaviour patterns.
(3) In determining what care is reasonable in all the circumstances for the purposes of subsection (1), the owner or keeper of an animal shall have particular regard to –
(a) good practice for the care of the animal in question,
(b) any lawful purpose for which the animal is kept,
(c) any lawful activity carried on in relation to the animal,
(d) the physical activity undertaken by the animal,
(e) seasonal climatic conditions,
(f) the life-stage of the animal, and
(g) any special or additional dietary and nutritional requirements that may arise –
(i) where the animal is pregnant, brooding or rearing young, and
(ii) from the general state of health of the animal.
(4) In this section, “normal behaviour patterns” means normal behaviour patterns for a domestic animal or a captive animal, as the case may be, of the kind concerned.”
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That list is basically common sense.
A child still ranks higher in anyone’s book than a dog. Stating British laws (common sense) doesn’t change that fact. How would you feel if a child you cared for was mauled by a dog? Would you side with the dog or the child?
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Quoting animal welfare legislation is irrelevant. Laws protecting children trump them all.
How many children have been euthanized recently?
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Exactly PLP.
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What on earth has dog cruelty by not walking a dog off a lead got to do with dog mauling and dog euthanasia? The latter are wholly separate issues.
The point is that, regardless of whether greater welfare rights apply to a child or a dog (the answer is obvious), it is not acceptable to deprive a dog of the freedom to exercise at its own pace, roam, follow scents and explore etc by keeping it on a lead just as it is not acceptable to deprive a child of its freedoms by keeping it on a lead.
The relevance of the animal welfare ordinance is that dogs do or will have express welfare rights which are actually more extensively expressed than any children’s welfare rights – and that one of those rights is to be provided with the opportunity to express normal behaviour patterns, which they cannot do tied to the end of a lead.
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Apologies St M, I misunderstood. As with all these laws, some common sense will need to be applied. For example, under that legislation you could argue that neutering pets was preventing them from “expressing normal behaviour patterns” but I can’t see that practice being stopped.
In terms of the lead question, I can’t see this law allowing a free for all in terms of dog walking. We’re a small community so I’m all for give and take – and there are already places on the island where dogs are allowed to be off leads, but these will still need to be controlled.
There may also be a case to restrict ownership. We don’t have the rolling countryside of the UK, so land to exercise animals will be limited. With that in mind, if an owner is not able to give a particular breed of dog sufficient exercise legally, they should not be allowed to keep it.
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Still going on…
If you dont have the land to offer an animal these things and its cruel to keep an animal without letting it roam then why have one? Why should everyone else who pays taxes have to put up with dogs annoying them off the lead on public land that everyone has to share?
You have said what YOU think a dog NEEDS and if you cant offer your dog that on your land, then dont have a dog.
We have dogs that we walk and run on leads and they are some of the fittest, well behaved, happy, sociable and healthy dogs you will see.
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Well fortunately there isn’t a problem at the moment because dogs are lawfully allowed off the lead in the countryside, woods, the cliffs, the commons, the majority of beaches all year round, and the parks with the exception of children’s play areas and sports playing fields – that amounts to a lot of public space, much of it relatively free from other people and dogs if you know when and where to go.
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Moderator….why has my avatar changed on my penultimate post on this thread?
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Vic – You mistyped your email address. I’ve corrected it and your Gravatar is back to normal.
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….many thanks Mr Moderator…lucky someone is on the ball!
Cheers,
Vic.
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38 posts about dog walking…..
meanwhile, in the rest of the world…….
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This is the centre of the universe right here. This thread is what keeps everything working in harmony. If we were to stop posting the gravitational pull of all the entities in the universe will increase with such dramatic consequences that the universe will contract.
Keep posting!
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…placing my towel betwixt my knees as we speak, OD ;)
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@Dogs – I’m sure that you did speak to a copper, but do you honestly think they would fine everybody £1000 that runs there dog on the common. Because its common land its where everybody goes to let the dogs run and play and sniff around the gorse.If they really fined everybody £1000 who excercised the dog this weekend, they would be able to put pensions up and give away another £2,000000
I dont think the states would be that cruel anyway.They probably wrote that law just to keep some moaners happy but wont actually take any notice.
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Careful Calco.
Dogs might lambast you for voicing your opinion.
Or as Dogs would say “opinion”.
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No, they probably wouldnt fine them £1000 (this is just the maximum) but they could and maybe would if for instance, their dog was annoying mine and I asked them to put it on a lead and they refused so I took a photo of them with their dogs off the lead and showed the police and I said I was willing to go to court with my evidence as a witness. If the dog owner then got questioned and admits he let them off the lead then they’d get a £90 fixed penalty but if they denied it and it went to court then thats when they would probably lump them with the larger fine.
I want this law enfoced so everyone can enjoy their walks without having to worry about others dogs running up to theirs and following us irritating us and our dogs.
I have heard people say, when their dogs are harrasing others on a lead “well if yours tells mine off it will teach him some manners” but why should responsible owners dogs have to do the job of the owner themselves?
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Because invariably the owners who let their dogs off the lead tend to be ignorant. They clearly see themselves as being more important than other people in the area.
I’m a porcupine.
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I agree, and would also add that I didn’t quite understand the beagle owner’s softly softly approach until I saw that picture in the Press of the offending boxer ‘line up’…
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Bless you all trying to get one over each other on these forums. Hiding behind silly little names so you can get as nasty as you like. St Marcouf I salute you for common sense ;)
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Julie – You say St Marcouf has common sense and that is okay, but what if he was actually wrong and Dogs was right which he seems to be sure about as he has even given the name of the copper.
This morning most people were down the common as usual but just say a copper really nicked you for a thousand quid, he might not say you would get let off cos St Marcouf said it was okay and Julie said it was common sense.
I have run mine down by Niles garage, back of Chouet and Fort Le Marchent and I have even seen the chief inspector doing the same so I think Marcouf is probably right, but you have to watch out.
Remember when smoking was legal, things change quick.
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