CT Plus proposes radical overhaul of bus routes
Thursday 14th March 2013, 1:00PM GMT.
BUS routes could undergo a massive overhaul if islanders agree to changes the operator hopes will turn around declining passenger numbers.
They include scrapping the round-island number 7 route in favour of a less frequent visitor-focused service, a direct link between the airport and the Bridge and the introduction of night buses on Fridays and Saturdays.
Visitors would also be expected to pay £2 a fare, with residency eventually being proved by possession of an Ormer card – with its fees increasing from 75p to 85p per journey for 20-journey cards and from 50p to 60p for 50-journey cards.
If accepted the changes could come into force on 12 May.
A map of the proposed new routes. Click the picture to view/download a PDF.
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Useful Links
Current map of routes, for comparison…
http://hctgroup.org/uploaded/Guernsey%20Diversions/Timetables%20winter%2012/Map%20from%20winter-2012-timetable.pdf
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The best thing they could do is use a map showing the actual roads the routes go along instead of the stylised rubbish they have now. Underground-style maps are fine for railways that have no stopping points other than stations, but a bus route has stopping points all along it, therefore you need to show the actual route! The single trip fare for visitors is not cheap, however the ‘carnet’s might be reasonable value?
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Do you know which road you live in? If so push the button when you’re near it. They show the whole route, complete with road names. It’s not that hard to comprehend surely.
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Where’s Le Chenne ? Can’t find it in my Perry’s ….
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Nor Pembrooke for that matter ……
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I think that the health of the drivers need to be overhauled, they seems to be always going off sick.
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If there’s no 7A that pretty much eliminates the ability for anyone on the West Coast to get a bus to the airport without first going to town?
Will a 10-20% increase in price boost passenger numbers? Most people previously mentioned that it would only be a few pounds more to drive weekly then get a bus, I doubt this will convince them otherwise?
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Three out of four times I’ve relied on the bus to get me to the airport it never came (or perhaps it did but over 10 minutes early). So they can poke their ‘service’ whatever the routes are. They don’t answer their phone and ignore complaints – CT are ignorant, unprofessional rubbish.
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Same here in Jersey
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I’ve got the 7A from Castel to the airport a couple of times and on both occasions the route was significantly altered and it took 20 mins longer than timetabled.
No huge surprise for Guernsey roads being closed but was very disappointing that on an airport route it wasn’t considered important to let passengers know that!
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“a direct link between the airport and the Bridge” .. I don’t see how this is new. the proposed purple route (11) looks like it follows the same route as the current red (7) route.
Also why the need for the 2 separate green routes (41 & 42) out towards Sausmarez park? Why not have 1 loop combinig the 2. This would free up a route to cover elsewhere.
The same goes for the gold coloured routes (31 & 32). Why have 2 going basically the same places.
Also there is no link between the PEH and the Castel under this new set up. If you want to go between the 2 it means going via town or walking from Castel Hill.
If you live between L’Eree and Vazon looks like you will only have a season route (91) or a long walk to find a more regular route. I wonder how many regular users this will impact?
Night buses are a good idea.
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Seems to me that when the management of a company is tilting, and has no clue what to do to stop the slide, they start making changes for the sake of making changes, calling them “enhancements” and, at the same time, stick up prices.
Higher prices will mean less passengers, and the loss of the circular island route will also further damage business.
Next step will be routes being dropped because not enough passengers are using them and, in the end, the word “service” will disappear from the term “bus service”.
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The best routes at the moment are the 7 & 7A , So now (from the Bridge) when you want to go to a bar or restaurant on the west coast you cannot get to or from there on the bus ? The west coast is being missed out.
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I would have thought they could easily have charged £3 (or even £4) after say 1am when the only other alternative is to walk or get a £15 taxi
Or possibly a facebook taxi !
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Maybe night buses are a good idea if they work properly but I fail to see how they cannot be charged a much higher fare,the drivers will have to be paid for unsociable hours so I fail to see £2.00 will cover this,by the time you have taken into consideration a couple of drunken passengers vomiting all over the bus, hey presto is it really worth it? If I was a bus driver would I really want to drive half way around the island with a load of drunks(not all but most) at 2am in the morning.
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I would like to further some of your points if i may… Imagine this if you will, a late night bus with a good number of drunken passengers, only one bus driver. Who will be there to stop one of the regular fights that regularly occurs? how will one lone bus driver manage a “gang” of rowdy passengers? What happens when one of these drunken passengers wants taking to his/her door? what happens when damage is caused to the bus? what happens when one or more vomits? what happens when someone gets off on the bridge for instance and needs to get further? will he expect the loyalty of a taxi to come to him to take him to his house half a mile away? what happens when a female’s safety is compromised whilst on a bus? what happens when taxi’s can no longer afford to operate because their business has been encroached upon too much? What happens when the clubs kick out at 2am and the bus service has finished by 2? what happens when there are queues waiting for buses? and finally, what happens to all the facebook taxis..they will no longer be ablke to do their pick ups from the de la rue bus shelter!!! As you say Valeite, and i totally agree….is it really worth it? I think this kind of work should be left to the operators who already do the island a good service. Where would be the sense in knocking one man down only to offer half the service for less hours just for some cheaper fares… lets face it, we all know it wouldn’t stay that cheap and in the long run will see alot of people lose out.
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What happens if these sort of things happen whilst drunk people are walking home? What if a girl gets raped because she can’t afford a taxi fare? What happens when a lone drunk male is mugged on his way home by a gang of thieves?
The bus actually makes some of these things safer. Who’s going to start raping a girl on a bus?
An assault would be stupid due to CCTV footage. If someone is sick, they’ll be on CCTV, call them back to pay cleaning costs.
Even if they charged each passenger a tenner on the night bus it would be cheaper than a taxi for most. This would more than cover any damages that may occur.
Yes town isn’t a pleasant place to be when it’s full of rowdy drunks. The real problem lies with the fact that it’s no where near as bad as people think it is.
I have seen trouble in town but I doubt it will extend to the buses in too big a way.
I think a lot of people will respect the fact that they’re being taken home for a reasonable price.
How often are taxis damaged? How many taxi drivers have been charged for raping a girl in their cab?
It really is an excellent idea. I could almost make CT Plus a profitable company. This is surely what we want. It could save us a lot of money in a year. Considering the current subsidy is at £2.4million even if they returned a million of that, it’s a huge saving.
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I just noticed an error in my post.
Where I put “I” could make CT Plus…blah…blah.
It should read “it”.
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Need to study it further before I can give a full appraisal but my initial reaction is:-
PLUS side late night services as an alternative to rip off, unaffordable taxis.
MINUS side the apartheid fares system. It’s unworkable and unfair and it would be much simpler to allow visitors to buy/use Ormer cards but simply make the initial, one off cost of buying an Ormer card £5 or even £10 for all.
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Rip off, un affordable taxi’s…? Don’t we live in an island which is unaffordable from start to finish..? slightly unfair to single out the “taxi’s” who are outr there doing a job at rates set by “our government”!
Due to the costs applied to the typical taxi, its no wonder why fares are set the way they are. The cost of taxi’s is determined by many factors, not just a random decision made up by the taxi world.
Have you compared how well gsy fares against many other places in other area’s of life? Property? Utilities? groceries? hourly rates of pay? I’m sure a night out on the town costs a pretty penny these days and i’m 100% certain it isn’t considerably over shadowed by a taxi fare home.
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The reality of the situation for myself and for hundreds of other islanders is that the cost of taxi fares is prohibitively high. That is why I take one only once every blue moon and even in those rare instances only when I’m sharing with two or more other people. I think my original comment stands up.
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This proposed fare structure is plain daft. I say bring in staged fares. Bring in children’s fares. And bring back the “Spitting prohibited” sign!
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I agree, those seem far more equitable than what is being proposed. With regard to the ‘Spitting’ sign, those were the days eh! Maybe though the fine today would be more like £1000 taking cost of living into consideration since those times.
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How are the drivers going to distinguish a visitor from a local person? Perhaps they will need to see a drivers licence. Whoops! don’t have one I use the bus. Or maybe you need a local accent to prove you are resident. Good luck on that one as we are now a multi cultural society.
Are we really going to rob our second source of island income to pay for this new service?
Who will stop the fighting on the night bus? I bet that eventually security will be needed for that and that will not be cheap. Maybe we could charge the tourists for that too.
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Hello. We are from Jersey. We would feel terrible if we knew we were paying more than the locals for our bus fare when we came to your lovely island. It has smacks of us and them. Jersey is pretty grim when it comes to making any decisions. Come on Sister Island who usually gets it right i.e. unemployment, immigration etc. Back to the drawing board on bus fares.
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Bang on Squirrel me lad, but I have a sneaky feeling that our bus company isn’t locally owned, so rather like our main telecoms provider, they can do pretty much what they like.
Which is nice.
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Don’t worry La Moye…
You won’t.
EVERYONE will be paying increased fares – but the bus operator CT are just trying to pull a fast one by pretending to the local population in Guernsey that visitors will be paying more and thus subsidizing the service.
Yes… tourists will be paying more… bu the locals will be paying also more… i.e. the same !!
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Have you seen the League of Gentlemen? Should be easy…
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Am I the only one who has trouble understanding the timetable in the Gazette?
For instance, on route 51, the first bus leaves the terminus at 07.30 and arrives at the Castel Hospital at 07.21, and the Bouet at 07.05!!
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Pyer
I am so glad I am not the only one that found the new timetable quite confusing.
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All those bus users who want their say can of course go to the public meeting at Hautes Capelles on Monday evening.
Although quite how most of the bus users on the island are going to get there and back by bus is beyond me …..
( us Townies are fine ….. We can get the 17:48 5AN out , and pray the meeting is over before we have to catch the 20:12 back ….. )
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Its time we had Gollop bikes around the island,much healthier option
Pink Lycra shorts optional
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okay, so what constitutes a visitor? I’m ex guern who comes home once a month to see my family and uses the bus each time. Does that mean I will be discriminated against even though I lived on the island most of my life? Also how do you prove who is a tourist and who is not? Also this is a form of active discrimination which in law I doubt is allowed anymore. Alas the tourist industry is fading to almost nothing in Guernsey so I don’t see how charging the few that do use the bus would help make up any shortfall. Also if you were a tourist who found out you had to pay more would this make you feel welcome or wish to revisit the island? I doubt it. As for night buses? Taxi drivers are struggling to make a living out of it Doubt past 10pm any would make any profit at all. Here in the uk we have lost loads of bus routes after 9pm as the numbers just don’t stack up. Charge a fee that is actually viable and introduce paid parking is the only way you will ever get the bus service to pay for itself. People in Guernsey won’t get out of their cars untill they have a big enough incentive to do so. The rest is just tinkering with routes. Get it so people can get into work on time in the morning and get home again without having to wait an hour at a time for a bus. Encourage tourists!! don’t kill off your summer sales as well, that’s just plain daft.
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perhaps a bit pedantic, but for the bus service to “pay for itself” it can’t rely on revenue from paid parking ….
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Ex Guern, I am retired and an ex guern. I also come over quite frequently to visit family. As I do not reside in the island I am a visitor. ” End of “.
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The Answer is to close all pubs at eleven o’clock or even ten,in the winter, as it was many years ago. We did’nt have this problem then. I wonder why? The last bus was around eleven, which was the ‘Picture Bus. ‘Ah,those were the days!
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What a pathetic set of proposals by CT minus, no doubt our states will go for it!!
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Before you enter the bus,please answer the following questions. If by some chance you cannot answer these questions, you are not local so we will have to charge you £2.00.
1. What is vraic?
2. What is a chancre?
3. What is the Little Chapel made with?
What a nonsense the fare structure is, can they not come up with a better idea than that.
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Valeite
Trouble is they’ll soon cotton on and learn the answers so you’ll need some reserve questions such as .. (excuse spelling)
What is a Collymarchon?
What is a BaBa?
What is a Budloe?
What is a Buncho?
What is a Douzainier?
What is a Bornement?
What is a Muratti?
What is a Viaer Marche?
As for the £1 or £2 fares why not just charge everybody £1.50?
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Is a collymochon the pace at which traffic travels into Town in the mornings ?
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:))
Yes it could be related to traffic speeds at peak times,as in ” Sorry I’m late,I was stuck in a collymarchon in the Grange”
Equally it could be related to the island waste strategy report,as in ” Sorry for the lack of progress .. I really haven’t a clue what I’m doing”
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no,the waste strategy is just a load of boodiyax …. (excuse my spelling … can never find my Marie de Garis when I need it )
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Surely the bus service should be concentrated on the times when most people would want to catch them ie rush hour, rather than providing a cheap alternative for drinkers? I think we should end the subsidy and make the decreasing number of passengers pay the full price for the service. No other form of transport, including cycling, is subsidised.
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The States have an overarching obligation to ensure everyone’s transport needs are met equally. Transport provision is an essential public service. Some people cannot drive so how else can this objective be achieved other than by ensuring the viability of a bus service?
Car use is subsidised by allowing people with cars to park for free on prime location public owned land. Perhaps this subsidy should end and more money invested in the bus service which everyone can and would use if it could be tailored to meet all needs and was free of charge.
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Genuine question, Sparty, borne out of my ignorance on the subject – do they? Where is the obligation to ensure transport needs are met documented – I’d be interested to read that.
As I said, not trying to catch you out – I really don’t know and want to!
Thanks!
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Billythefish
I absolutely believe so yes, I believe that equality is a basic human right and underpins our society and therefore our government. Therefore there is an obligation irrespective of whether it is documented clearly in that terminology. Everyone’s transport needs must be met.
I don’t mean that those with private jets must be provided with hangars or yachts must have berths (which nonetheless is catered for) I mean that elderly, disabled and low income earners and those with 6 kids should not be prevented from independent participation in society due to transport problems.
I don’t intend to trawl through all the various policy plans which dovetail into the states strategic plan nevertheless I think you will find that the equality thread runs through them all.
Many of the social inclusion provisions and public welfare provisions which can be found within those policies would be meaningless if sectors of society had no means of transport.
If you look at the social policy plan for example, you will see that two of the 3 general objectives are:
*A social environment and culture where there is active and engaged citizenship
*Equality of opportunity, social inclusion and social justice
http://www.gov.gg/socialpolicyplan
Absence of adequate public transport is simply not an option. If there was no bus service benefit rates would have to rise to cover the cost of car use, whether private cars or taxis, in order to meet the same objectives.
We need a long term plan that will take us decades into the future. The current priorities need to be reversed. My vote is for free buses and user paid parking (rather than taxpayer funded parking). Solve the problems from this starting point rather than from where we are now, sort out the details later.
A free first class bus service which caters for everyone’s needs and which does not make users feel disadvantaged, would pave the way for a cultural shift and real progress for Guernsey.
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Better get on with planting a few more money trees methinks
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There’s room for a few on the Crown and Albert and room for a forest on North beach.
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Make that a copse if the Harbour Master doesn’t keep his beady eyes off this tax payer funded reclamation
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I don’t think we realise how good Island Coachways were and it does make we wonder if giving them the heave ho was a big mistake, it was all to do with the subsidy, but how many bus users have been lost and will not return, totally cutting our noses off to spite our face. Therefore losing money in the process.
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IWV,
I can answer all those questions, so I am local.
I can think of another, In what context would the word boodyax be used?
The answer is, the state of some of the buses at the moment, I took my grandson at half term on 7A and we could hardly see out of the windows.
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valeite
Just had a thought.Whenever States departments call in outside consultants they should be made to pass our ‘local person’ test in order to prove that they have at least made an attempt to understand the island before they charge us through the nose for advice that won’t have a cat in hell’s chance of working over here
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Warning… Smoke-screen !!
Bus company plan to increase prices for every-one – not just tourists !
By dressing up these proposals in such a way, the general public are being hoodwinked in to believing that they are aimed at increasing revenue from tourists, whereas, in fact, everyone will land up paying more, with the exception of senior citizens.
The standard fare is being raised from one to two pounds, whilst the costs per trip through the use of the Ormer cards will also be increased.
There is no visitor or local fare – everyone pays the same. Visitors can purchase the Ormer card just as easily as the local population, and the local population will bear the burden of the new price increases just as much as the tourists.
Higher fares will only help push the local population into using private cars and taxis more, and will only help encourage visitors to use taxis and hire-cars more, especially as no action is being taken on implementing paid parking.
Guernsey, as a whole, should be doing a lot more to protect its own environment whether that involves solving the problem of dumping sewage out at sea, waste disposal, power generation or reducing the reliance of the population on the motor car.
Furthermore, there is another smoke-screen being concocted on the cancellation of the island circular routes. The real reason for the cancellation is so that passengers can not get on at one stop and literally go round the island on a single fare instead of, as in the future, changing buses and paying out more !
The argument that the route 7/7A uses one quarter of the bus resources, and that the route can not cope with cruise-ship passengers anyway is total nonsense.
How much more resources will be needed for a late night service ?
The bus company should be laying on special trips and tours to meet the needs of cruise-ship passengers on those days that there is a cruise-ship visiting as these excursions could bring in substantial more revenue than a single round-the-island regular bus service route could.
The new company, CT, shows very little ability in being able to attract more passengers, to improve services, or to help the environment by reducing the use of the motor-car on the island but seem to just look at the easy way out by hiking up prices.
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…I would add it does have the stunning ability to p*ss off all it’s drivers, who appear to spend half their time lost down diversions as they don’t know the island and the rest of the time off ‘sick’…….
so, popular with employees and islanders alike.
Exactly why did we get these guys in to take over the bus service? Wasn’t it because Island Coachways wouldn’t play ball, and we simply couldn’t get anyone else?
Hardly a glowing recommendation.
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How is that smoke screen? I read that our fares were increasing when this was initially announced.
CT Plus don’t control what the GP write on the website.
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Well, maybe you are right and the GP misreported CT Plus or maybe CT Plus were trying to mislead us on the increase of fares – as the above press report would lead us to believe.
But for sure, CT Plus did state that they would launch a new service linking the north with the airport when one exists already in the form of the round the island route that the bus operator wishes to cancel.
So that is a bit of a smoke- screen and therefore I think I will go along with my opinion that they are indeed trying to hoodwink us on the fare increases.
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I don’t think they’re putting a smoke screen over the price increase.
The bus operator isn’t cancelling the route. Just putting fewer buses on it. The majority of the time I see that bus it’s empty. If it’s not most are just taking the scenic route to town with very few going to the airport. With the amount of luggage my girlfriend takes with her on holiday a bus wouldn’t be viable anyway.
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The anticlockwise round island service HAS been dropped completely- so that’s 3 an hour down to nothing.
The clockwise service has been slashed from 3 an hour to 4 a day .
So Pleinmont has had a 6 bus an hour service slashed to 1
If there are more winners than losers, where on the island has the service increased sixfold ?
The airport has dropped from 7 services an hour, on 3 routes, to 4 an hour on 1.
Again, where on the island is now being serviced by 3 times as many routes twice as often ?
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You do make a good point there.
The thinking is probably that Pleinmont is desolate compared to most places. Few shops, houses etc. Although the Imperial might lose some custom. I can’t image anyone getting a taxi from the Vale to the Imp. It’d cost a billion, gazillion pounds!
Frequency of buses to the main populated areas should increase. If this is not happening, where exactly are these extra buses going? Bizarre stuff.
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Does CT = Con Trick ??
Confuse the traveling public by changing the route numbers, even though the new route network is not that much different from the old one.
Increase all the fares but pretend that tourists will be subsidizing the bus service when in fact everyone will be paying the same and everyone will be paying more.
Cancel the round-the-island service because that will stop anyone going round the island non-stop for a relatively low fare and force them to change buses and thus pay multiple fares to go round the island.
Introduce a new North of the Island to the Airport route when actually the round-the-island service that will be cancelled was doing exactly that and was giving passengers the choice to travel from the north to the airport via the west coast or via the east coast, with the later having a few minutes stop at the terminus on the way.
Introduce a new late night service, two days a week on some routes… with very real details on which route will operate and when.
That’s it ! The so-called radical changes proposed by the bus company, CT.
More like a Con Trick to me !
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Again, I don’t know if this is all you guys have read, when I read the original statement it said that all fares were increasing from £1 to £2. This is unless residents buy an ormer card which significantly reduces the amount that you pay.
I do agree with you with the routes.
The two that used to be 3/3A should be merged but with more buses on the route. It’s a very popular route that caters for quite a densely built up area out of town. It services the Genats estate where many residents can’t drive/don’t have a car.
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YES, more buses! The 3 routes are very popular, especially in the summer with the tourists and whilst I don’t mind standing, many times in the summer I have actually ended up right in the back of the bus. It’s not nice to stand there, you have to hold on to someone’s seat as there are no poles and if it lurches, you end up in someone’s lap! More frequent buses would help this. In the mornings also there’s a huge stretch of time between the buses going into town, so if you miss one that would get you into town early, the next one will make you very late.
Can’t speak about any of the other routes as I don’t use them.
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The Ormer Cards can be bought by anyone, not just residents. But from the press report, and I quote,
“Visitors would also be expected to pay £2 a fare, with residency eventually being proved by possession of an Ormer card – with its fees increasing from 75p to 85p per journey for 20-journey cards and from 50p to 60p for 50-journey cards.”
As anyone can buy an Ormer card, it is not proof of residency, and anyway, that statement is factually incorrect as visitors are not required to pay a £2 fare as they can also buy an Ormer card if they wish. The same goes for residents of the island, if they do not have an Ormer card then they will have to pay the £2 fare.
So, in short, a whopping price increase for everyone.
However, the question remains whether the Press made up the above statement, on purpose or by accident, or were actually lead to believe the above statement was correct by a person or persons from CT Plus or a third party.
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I agree that it is a whopping price increase.
But I definitely read that we would get a fare increase on the day this piece came out.
Can ThisisGuernsey shed any light on this?
Grala, I’m glad you agree. Most of the best beaches are along the 3/3A route. It would make a lot of financial sense.
I also have issues where I get to work around half an hour early or the next bus makes me 20 mins late.
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BBC Guernsey have reported ther will be a 15 minute service from the Vale to Torteval – which as Pat Wisher has pointed out would not be the case.
Are the media misreporting the facts , or have the facts been misrepresented TO the media ?
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Looking at the map there are two areas in particular that the routes are too similar and cover the same road, these should be redesigned so that Perelle can be served with a bus between Vazon and Leree.
30 and 31 shocking level of route over lap and to a less extent 41 and 42.
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I`m staying at Adair bungalows, let`s get a bus back. Err, perhaps not!!!
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